WTF? (planetary 1-child law)

[Toronado3800]

You want to argue general welfare? You are harming the vast majority of humanity by depriving them of a right to reproduce and start have a family.

I'd say its not going to remove humanity's right to enjoy reproduction. In the sci-fi like possible overpopulated future, overly simplified, when my great-grandpa dies at 114 then SOMEONE gets to enjoy reproduction. Great-Grandpa won't be living forever.

We're not at this point. Someday will we be? I don't know. Do I have a better hypothetical answer to this hypothetical problem? Not yet. I'm up for suggestions though.

If the population today was 60 Billion what would you do?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I'd say its not going to remove humanity's right to enjoy reproduction.

Why's you change it to right to enjoy sex instead of addressing your desire to prevent people reproducing?

when my great-grandpa dies at 114 then SOMEONE gets to enjoy reproduction.

someone of your choosing? What if they get pregnant before that? Forced abortions? Imprisonment for reproducing? Will they be executed as enemies of Gaia?

If the population today was 60 Billion what would you do?

Just as if it were 60,000, the answer depends on the conditions of the wordld around me and as a whole.\

How 'bout you just kill yourself right now, if you're afraid there are too many people?

 

[Toronado3800]

Why's you change it to right to enjoy sex instead of addressing your desire to prevent people reproducing?

My apologies, I mean enjoy having kids or sex, or both.

What if they get pregnant before that? Forced abortions? Imprisonment for reproducing? Will they be executed as enemies of Gaia?

Maybe we'll not give them any tax deductions for not playing by the rules. Maybe we'll make them pay for child birth out of pocket. Lord forbid anyone keeps having kids forcing the issue. Its a scary situation to be in I agree. I think its less scary than having to fight for your next meal though.

Yup, and our hypothetical descendants will need to decide a fair way to ration this out. I can imagine all kinds of terrible abuses of the system. Better to have a plan than to just admit defeat though. I'd say we ration out these "kid permits" to females based on age since their biological clocks are an issue.

just as if it were 60,000, the answer depends on the conditions of the wordld around me and as a whole.\

How 'bout you just kill yourself right now, if you're afraid there are too many people?

Kill myself right now? I'd try to prevent a Logan's Run type of future where folks get executed at 40 or whatever with this controlled birth rate.

I love this message board. Last time I got into this good of a hypothetical sci-fi like conversation was between episodes of BattleStar.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Maybe we'll not give them any tax deductions for not playing by the rules.

So now you no longer wish to stop people from reproducing but instead want to adopt my position and simply stop rewarding people for reproducing when they can't support their own children?

Yup, and our hypothetical descendants will need to decide a fair way to ration this out.

Rationing the right for a pregnant woman to give birth to her child without you killing the child before her eyes, killing her child in utero, or locking her away for refusing to kill her child?

Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you people?

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Oh and one more thing even if we COULD feed an ever more populated world there are other resources that "don't grow on trees" and our industrialized is fully dependant on. Copper and about a hundred aother metals/minerals are going to run out sooner than you think then what bright guy? I guess we will cook our hormone enhanced beef over an open fire outside our tents. Oh there will still be plenty of people living in their high rise apts but the AVERAGE man will NOT have computers, electricity, TVs, radios, or any of a hundred things we take for granted. If we have even 20 billion people on this Earth there will NOT, I REPEAT ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT, have ANY of the basic things we take for granted. Tell me just EXACTELY what happens when we run out of copper?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Copper and about a hundred aother metals/minerals are going to run out sooner than you think then what bright guy?

is that a question?

we'bve barely touched Earth's copper supplies

Oh there will still be plenty of people living in their high rise apts but the AVERAGE man will NOT have computers, electricity, TVs, radios, or any of a hundred things we take for granted.

are you watching The Colony?

 

[Anguille]

Pop quiz: does a mortality rate have a positive or negative effect on the population level? I'll give you a hint: dying is basically the opposite of being born.

Funny that you now try to change the subject from forced sterilization to save the polar bears to forced sterilization to prevent dying infants. why have you left the original argument you people were making? Is it because you know you've no leg to stand on?

Show me where I advocated for forced sterilization.

You can't have a worldwide 1-child law and enforce it without forced sterilizations and forced abortions. It is a necessary component of any attempt to effectively implement such a reduction of the human population (I wouldn't be surprised in genocide went along with it as it has in the past).

What polar bears?

Read the fucking OP. Do you even know what this thread is about?

I think you read a lot of science fiction.

 

[Anguille]

Cut off the aid, they stare, and the population drops.

Like I pointed out before, you have no problem with massive infant mortality.

 

[Anguille]

proletarian's answer to over population : let poor children starve to death.

 

[Anguille]

Thats exactly the reason why I offered in a previous post a few examples of new methods of food production Cold. Of course no one wants DDT or harmful things like that, or at least I hope not, but frankly I like to think we can solve this issue. One thing that I have seen in my career is the sheer number of people the world over that live in poverty, and even though some may not agree with me, I have come to believe that if we address just that little part of it, it will provide a firm foundation in which to build from. If we and other nations put as much effort as we did in building Missile technology to uplifting the poor and no I'm not talking about giving handouts. here, I'm talking about true help, roads, bridges, schools, dams, etc. then that effort will eventually be rewarded in my opinion with a new generation of young people that want more than those that came before them and that includes a world not so crowded.

You're taking a huge gamble that the future generations will come to that conclusion. Unless we actively change our culture so that parenthood is no longer considered to be near sainthood, people will continue to have as many offspring as they can afford. If they are doing better economically it will be reflected, for the most part, in the increasing size of their families.

I agree we should do more to improve conditions and infrastructure in the 3rd World. That should include access to affordable birth control and abortion.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Wow. Quotemine a statement about the manner in which population is regulated by natural factors and attack the person who's opposing forced sterilization, forced abortions, and the infringement of human rights.

Are you really that dishonest and that strong a supporter of forced sterilization and killing babies, Ang, or are you just really stupid?

 

[Anguille]

Rationing the right for a pregnant woman to give birth to her child without you killing the child before her eyes, killing her child in utero, or locking her away for refusing to kill her child?

Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you people?

I'm not in favor of any kind of forced sterilization or abortion but I can guarantee you that the same element of society today that wants to deny a woman the right to chose abortion is the same element which, once it becomes alarmed about overpopulation, will the first to demand women submit to forced abortion.

 

[Anguille]

Wow. Quotemine a statement about the manner in which population is regulated by natural factors and attack the person who's opposing forced sterilization, forced abortions, and the infringement of human rights.

Are you really that dishonest and that strong a supporter of forced sterilization and killing babies, Ang, or are you just really stupid?

The one who is dishonest is you. I asked you before to point out where I said I support forced sterilization and you were unable to do so. Yet you repeat the same ridiculous claims.

Advocating for the killing of babies is your game, not mine.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I thing Angy is lost and needs to read the thread again from the beginning and decide what Angy is trying to argue.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I can guarantee you that the same element of society today that wants to deny a woman the right to chose abortion is the same element which, once it becomes alarmed about overpopulation, will the first to demand women submit to forced abortion.

Advocating for the killing of babies is your game, not mine.

Possibility A: Angy will be the first to support forced sterilization if there are two many people

Possibility B: Angy supports abortion and advocating for killing babies is Angy's deal.


Either way you're a fucking moron.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Copper and about a hundred aother metals/minerals are going to run out sooner than you think then what bright guy?

is that a question?

we'bve barely touched Earth's copper supplies

Oh there will still be plenty of people living in their high rise apts but the AVERAGE man will NOT have computers, electricity, TVs, radios, or any of a hundred things we take for granted.

are you watching The Colony?

HOW FUCKING WRONG CAN YOU BE!!!!!! I think 60 years is VERY generous.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Copper and about a hundred aother metals/minerals are going to run out sooner than you think then what bright guy?

is that a question?

we'bve barely touched Earth's copper supplies

Oh there will still be plenty of people living in their high rise apts but the AVERAGE man will NOT have computers, electricity, TVs, radios, or any of a hundred things we take for granted.

are you watching The Colony?

HOW FUCKING WRONG CAN YOU BE!!!!!! I think 60 years is VERY generous.

Known worldwide copper resources are estimated at nearly 5.8 trillion pounds of which only about 0.7 trillion pounds (12%) have been mined throughout history... and nearly all of that is still in circulation, because copper’s recycling rate is higher than that of any other engineering metal.

Copper.org: Copper & the Environment: Copper – The World’s Most Reusable Resource


You must've never seen this episode of Modern Marvels

Hulu - Modern Marvels: Copper - Watch the full episode now.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

What's the "COLONY" sounds scary.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

What's the "COLONY" sounds scary.

trying to change the subject?

 

[Cold Fusion38]

is that a question?

we'bve barely touched Earth's copper supplies


are you watching The Colony?

HOW FUCKING WRONG CAN YOU BE!!!!!! I think 60 years is VERY generous.

Known worldwide copper resources are estimated at nearly 5.8 trillion pounds of which only about 0.7 trillion pounds (12%) have been mined throughout history... and nearly all of that is still in circulation, because copper’s recycling rate is higher than that of any other engineering metal.

Copper.org: Copper & the Environment: Copper – The World’s Most Reusable Resource


You must've never seen this episode of Modern Marvels

Hulu - Modern Marvels: Copper - Watch the full episode now.

The vast majority of which we can't get to with current techniques. Oh and how many houses are we going to level to get at the copper?