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MaggieMae
Reality bits
- Apr 3, 2009
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That's one of the projects of the Clinton Global Initiative. There's also a program (could be part of that one) where women in third world countries are given $1.00 to literally start a business by doing what they do best: Could be a woman has a talent for making neck jewelry out of nut shells. If she could make them, then sell them for a couple of pennies, before long that $1.00 investment starts to grow.
Toronado3800
Gold Member
- Nov 15, 2009
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What happens? Their population takes a nosedive. Did you steal this leading question my graph of Chinese population throughout the last few thousand years? Its that chaotic nosedive I want to avoid.
Probably better than you all have.
While I understand when someone say's yes the world is overcrowded, it's easy to just say, well lets just keep "them" from having so many children, so that " I" may have a better world. First, I think it underestimates the power of people, once given the opportunity to make a better life for themselves, to self regulate their own well being. There are many issues associated with population control among them cultural ones that always lead to one method of population control that many are not willing to accept and thats genocide. Genocide is a way in which one group thinking they are superior to another for whatever reason they so choose, decides for themselves to remove the other. Sound familier? That is why, I would never support methods of popluation control such as those being offered, because I believe that we are much smarter than that when it comes to the means and ability to solve these issues. As part of that , might I suggest that once someone has opportunity to lift themselves up from poverty, education in terms of contraception is not so difficult and need not require mandated laws as to who will have a child and who won't. If people choose to label me as a Utopian Liberal based on this thought process then by all means be my guest, I choose to see it more as having a little more faith in mankinds ability.
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☭proletarian☭
Guest
- Thread starter
- #147
I don't like this system
TIC Isn't this the land of the free and isn't freedom about living your life as you see fit.
Many orthodox religious have lots of children, they live their faith. In contemporary America a minority still do that, Jews, Catholics and Amish are a few I can think of.
But America worships money and its church is the coliseum, so having one or two is pretty much the limit as tennis, golf, football, baseball all brands of worship cost money and one can only afford one or two super stars.
So actually having one or two is the natural progressive of an enlightened society, farms run well with machines today and the brats don't die early as they used to.
As for those who chose not to pass along their genes, most seem self centered and a bit nutty so this can only be a good thing for the future? Thank gawd Ayn Rand and Ron Paul didn't have a dozen libertarians, we have enough already.
Once humankind attains immortality having kids will be a real pain, the brats will never leave home, imagine all these generations living together, they'll need to redo 'Leave it to Beaver' and 'Sesame Street' will include senile adult muppets.
Many orthodox religious have lots of children, they live their faith. In contemporary America a minority still do that, Jews, Catholics and Amish are a few I can think of.
But America worships money and its church is the coliseum, so having one or two is pretty much the limit as tennis, golf, football, baseball all brands of worship cost money and one can only afford one or two super stars.
So actually having one or two is the natural progressive of an enlightened society, farms run well with machines today and the brats don't die early as they used to.
As for those who chose not to pass along their genes, most seem self centered and a bit nutty so this can only be a good thing for the future? Thank gawd Ayn Rand and Ron Paul didn't have a dozen libertarians, we have enough already.
Once humankind attains immortality having kids will be a real pain, the brats will never leave home, imagine all these generations living together, they'll need to redo 'Leave it to Beaver' and 'Sesame Street' will include senile adult muppets.
Anguille
Bane of the Urbane
- Mar 8, 2008
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I can think of a lot of good reasons to chose not to procreate.
-Not wishing to contribute to over population.
-Not earning enough money to give children a good home.
-Having some congenital defect that could be passed on.
-Preferring to adopt and give already existing children a home.
-Not being able to find a good mate and not wishing to raise children as a single parent.
-Believing you can make more of a difference in a child's life by being an aunt or an uncle or a teacher rather than be their parent.
-Not being entirely certain of the ability to be a good parent for whatever reason.
-Wanting to be able to dedicate one's time wholly to some social cause and knowing it would leave not enough time for raising a family.
You say that most childfree people seem self centered. Much as people want to act as if parenthood is close to sainthood, people pretty much have kids for their own selfish reasons. I think self centeredness is found across the board.
The notion that you aren't a complete person unless you have children is just as foolish and demeaning as the notion that you are nothing unless you have proved yourself by snagging a mate. Nonetheless, these mindsets are prevalent in our society.
Anguille
Bane of the Urbane
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I'm amazed, you were actually making non-partisan sense until you tossed that little tidbit into the works. Maybe there's hope for you yet.
Cold Fusion38
SUPER GENIUS
I just thought it worth mentioning a few things that population control has led to in the past...
In 1838 and 1839, as part of Andrew Jackson's Indian removal policy, the Cherokee nation was forced to give up its lands east of the Mississippi River and to migrate to an area in present-day Oklahoma. The Cherokee people called this journey the "Trail of Tears," because of its devastating effects. The migrants faced hunger, disease, and exhaustion on the forced march. Over 4,000 out of 15,000 of the Cherokees died.
The Trail of Tears
For the next 28 years, the United States government struggled to force relocation of the southeastern nations. A small group of Seminoles was coerced into signing a removal treaty in 1833, but the majority of the tribe declared the treaty illegitimate and refused to leave. The resulting struggle was the Second Seminole War, which lasted from 1835 to 1842. As in the first war, fugitive slaves fought beside the Seminoles who had taken them in. Thousands of lives were lost in the war, which cost the Jackson administration approximately 40 to 60 million dollars -- ten times the amount it had allotted for Indian removal. In the end, most of the Seminoles moved to the new territory. The few who remained had to defend themselves in the Third Seminole War (1855-58), when the U.S. military attempted to drive them out. Finally, the United States paid the remaining Seminoles to move west.
The Creeks also refused to emigrate. They signed a treaty in March, 1832, which opened a large portion of their Alabama land to white settlement, but guaranteed them protected ownership of the remaining portion, which was divided among the leading families. The government did not protect them from speculators, however, who quickly cheated them out of their lands. By 1835 the destitute Creeks began stealing livestock and crops from white settlers. Some eventually committed arson and murder in retaliation for their brutal treatment. In 1836 the Secretary of War ordered the removal of the Creeks as a military necessity. By 1837, approximately 15,000 Creeks had migrated west. They had never signed a removal treaty.
Indian removal
There were approximately 750000 Aborigines when Sydney was first settled by the British. The British thought they could take away the land from the natives, because they saw no system of government, no commerce or permanent settlements and no evidence of landownership. The Sydney Cove colony was founded on the legal principle of "terra nullius" - this meant that the land belonged to no one. The settlers were able to take land from the Aborigines. Finally, in 1993, they recognised that the native title had existed before the arrival of the British and the notion of terra nullius was overthrown.
Aborigines in Australia
The Nazis then combined their racial theories with the evolutionary theories of Charles Darwin to justify their treatment of the Jews. The Germans, as the strongest and fittest, were destined to rule, while the weak and racially adulterated Jews were doomed to extinction. Hitler began to restrict the Jews with legislation and terror, which entailed burning books written by Jews, removing Jews from their professions and public schools, confiscating their businesses and property and excluding them from public events. The most infamous of the anti-Jewish legislation were the Nuremberg Laws, enacted on September 15, 1935. They formed the legal basis for the Jews' exclusion from German society and the progressively restrictive Jewish policies of the Germans.
In nearly every country overrun by the Nazis, the Jews were forced to wear badges marking them as Jews, they were rounded up into ghettos or concentration camps and then gradually transported to the killing centers. The death camps were essentially factories for murdering Jews. The Germans shipped thousands of Jews to them each day. Within a few hours of their arrival, the Jews had been stripped of their possessions and valuables, gassed to death, and their bodies burned in specially designed crematoriums. Approximately 3.5 million Jews were murdered in these death camps.
History of the Holocaust - An Introduction
So while I'm sure while well meaning the comments made in reference to the population being smaller, I suggest there are other ways in which we can educate people,house, feed, and give them a chance at life, so that education in such things as contraception are not so foreign.
In 1838 and 1839, as part of Andrew Jackson's Indian removal policy, the Cherokee nation was forced to give up its lands east of the Mississippi River and to migrate to an area in present-day Oklahoma. The Cherokee people called this journey the "Trail of Tears," because of its devastating effects. The migrants faced hunger, disease, and exhaustion on the forced march. Over 4,000 out of 15,000 of the Cherokees died.
The Trail of Tears
For the next 28 years, the United States government struggled to force relocation of the southeastern nations. A small group of Seminoles was coerced into signing a removal treaty in 1833, but the majority of the tribe declared the treaty illegitimate and refused to leave. The resulting struggle was the Second Seminole War, which lasted from 1835 to 1842. As in the first war, fugitive slaves fought beside the Seminoles who had taken them in. Thousands of lives were lost in the war, which cost the Jackson administration approximately 40 to 60 million dollars -- ten times the amount it had allotted for Indian removal. In the end, most of the Seminoles moved to the new territory. The few who remained had to defend themselves in the Third Seminole War (1855-58), when the U.S. military attempted to drive them out. Finally, the United States paid the remaining Seminoles to move west.
The Creeks also refused to emigrate. They signed a treaty in March, 1832, which opened a large portion of their Alabama land to white settlement, but guaranteed them protected ownership of the remaining portion, which was divided among the leading families. The government did not protect them from speculators, however, who quickly cheated them out of their lands. By 1835 the destitute Creeks began stealing livestock and crops from white settlers. Some eventually committed arson and murder in retaliation for their brutal treatment. In 1836 the Secretary of War ordered the removal of the Creeks as a military necessity. By 1837, approximately 15,000 Creeks had migrated west. They had never signed a removal treaty.
Indian removal
There were approximately 750000 Aborigines when Sydney was first settled by the British. The British thought they could take away the land from the natives, because they saw no system of government, no commerce or permanent settlements and no evidence of landownership. The Sydney Cove colony was founded on the legal principle of "terra nullius" - this meant that the land belonged to no one. The settlers were able to take land from the Aborigines. Finally, in 1993, they recognised that the native title had existed before the arrival of the British and the notion of terra nullius was overthrown.
Aborigines in Australia
The Nazis then combined their racial theories with the evolutionary theories of Charles Darwin to justify their treatment of the Jews. The Germans, as the strongest and fittest, were destined to rule, while the weak and racially adulterated Jews were doomed to extinction. Hitler began to restrict the Jews with legislation and terror, which entailed burning books written by Jews, removing Jews from their professions and public schools, confiscating their businesses and property and excluding them from public events. The most infamous of the anti-Jewish legislation were the Nuremberg Laws, enacted on September 15, 1935. They formed the legal basis for the Jews' exclusion from German society and the progressively restrictive Jewish policies of the Germans.
In nearly every country overrun by the Nazis, the Jews were forced to wear badges marking them as Jews, they were rounded up into ghettos or concentration camps and then gradually transported to the killing centers. The death camps were essentially factories for murdering Jews. The Germans shipped thousands of Jews to them each day. Within a few hours of their arrival, the Jews had been stripped of their possessions and valuables, gassed to death, and their bodies burned in specially designed crematoriums. Approximately 3.5 million Jews were murdered in these death camps.
History of the Holocaust - An Introduction
So while I'm sure while well meaning the comments made in reference to the population being smaller, I suggest there are other ways in which we can educate people,house, feed, and give them a chance at life, so that education in such things as contraception are not so foreign.
Newby
Does it get any better?
- Jan 6, 2009
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What gives you the right to take anyone's child? Who the hell are you?? My God, you really need to get a grip on yourself, maybe you're the one that should be eliminated due to 'over population'? On what grounds do you even make these comments?
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☭proletarian☭
Guest
- Thread starter
- #156
On a side note, why is it the estimated dead Jews from WWII keeps getting lesser?
☭proletarian☭;1810573 said:
generally everything I read on the subject it's a pretty consistant number between 3.5 million and 4.1 million not including those in Russia. That might account for the variation your seeing. However here is a little interesting statistic. which some might account for this as well.
Some scholars maintain that the definition of the Holocaust should also include the Nazis' systematic murder of millions of people in other groups, including Catholics, ethnic Poles, the Romani, Soviet civilians, Soviet prisoners of war, people with disabilities, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, and other political and religious opponents. By this definition, the total number of Holocaust victims would be between 11 million and 17 million people.
The Holocaust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
MaggieMae
Reality bits
- Apr 3, 2009
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While it may not be a LAW in some regions, it most certainly has been banned in areas most affected by malaria, then brought back when the death toll began to rise.
Do thy homework.
DDT
Where DDT is used, malaria deaths plummet. Where it is not used, they skyrocket. For example, in South Africa, the most developed nation on the continent, the incidence of malaria had been kept very low (below 10,000 cases annually) by the careful use of DDT. But in 1996 environmentalist pressure convinced program directors to cease using DDT. One of the worst epidemics in the country's history ensued, with almost 62,00 cases in 2000. Shortly after this peak, South Africa reintroduced DDT. In one year, malaria cases plummented by 80 percent. Next door, in Mozambique, whick doesn't use DDT, malaria rates remain stratospheric. Similar experiences have been recorded in Zambia and other African countries.
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