Wouldn't This be Considered Child Abuse.

[syrenn]

Now that you fully understand the word. Would you like to debate which is riskier , by an order of magnitudes, between baseball and sailing solo in a dangerous ocean in a dangerous boat?

Risk is risk. Parents weigh the risks and decide for THEIR children. Yes you can or no you cant.

Their choice and not mine.

 

[ConHog]

Now that you fully understand the word. Would you like to debate which is riskier , by an order of magnitudes, between baseball and sailing solo in a dangerous ocean in a dangerous boat?

Risk is risk. Parents weigh the risks and decide for THEIR children. Yes you can or no you cant.

Their choice and not mine.

You just proved my point, again. The state has already established that they CAN absolutely dictate certain things about the way you parent. Why should this be any different?

 

[syrenn]

Now that you fully understand the word. Would you like to debate which is riskier , by an order of magnitudes, between baseball and sailing solo in a dangerous ocean in a dangerous boat?

Risk is risk. Parents weigh the risks and decide for THEIR children. Yes you can or no you cant.

Their choice and not mine.

You just proved my point, again. The state has already established that they CAN absolutely dictate certain things about the way you parent. Why should this be any different?

LOL, how did I prove you point?

Neither the Abby or her parents broke any LAWS. There were no "dictates" that were violated. Abby did not steal the boat and run away with it. Her parents gave consent and permission for her to go.

I agree that the state dictates certain things, I have never disagreed with that.

 

[ConHog]

Risk is risk. Parents weigh the risks and decide for THEIR children. Yes you can or no you cant.

Their choice and not mine.

You just proved my point, again. The state has already established that they CAN absolutely dictate certain things about the way you parent. Why should this be any different?

LOL, how did I prove you point?

Neither the Abby or her parents broke any LAWS. There were no "dictates" that were violated.

I agree that the state dictates certain things, I have never disagreed with that.

And where have I said that there were? What I have said is that there absolutely should be laws.

I have also said that the parents were neglectful. People have been found guilty of neglecting their teenage children for abandoning them at home on their own let alone for leaving them alone on the open sea for extended periods of time. Is it likely that these fools are charged? No, but could they be? You bet.

 

[gslack]

Yes, they think they were sane and perfectly within their rights to neglect their child's best interests.


I truly can't believe anyone would compare playing baseball to sailing solo around the world.

Simple fact, IF the parents just wanted the daughter to have the experience of sailing around the world they would have went with her, or at least sent her with a trusted and experienced adult. The fact that they didn't speaks directly to the idea that THEY wanted her to potentially break a silly record.


Syrenn, I take it back you are an idiot. I can't even believe that you insist on comparing playing baseball to solo sailing around the world.

The Child's best interests is the thing here, not the parents sense of well being... Ever told a teenager no about a party or something only to have them go and do it anyway? if you are a parent I am sure you have or had something similar... So if that child goes anyway and has an accident or something can we call that child abuse?

Ever let your kid go to a sport practice alone?? Come on now lets be honest I have coached kids for a long time now, and rarely see more 2-3 parents attending a practice once the child gets past 8 years old.. in fact I have kids who ride their bikes to the practice and back, and sometimes we have a storm and I take the kids home... I don't scream child abuse, I just do what i can and go on.... Had a kid take a baseball to the eye the other day it swelled shut and he had a little cut on it.. His parents were NOT there.. is that abuse? hope not cause its not a rarity at all...

I teach a self defense course at the local YMCA twice a week.. had a kid get a dislocated kneecap last winter at a competition. No parents around... Good parents? I don't know but it didn't look good. bad parents? again no way to tell in such a situation, could have had a number of reasons they weren't there. Was it abuse? No way....

Whether its sailing around the world or a sport, there is still risks... You are assuming a great many things about the child and the parents here.. First you are taking a media whore as being truthful, honest, and sincere when that is shown to be blatantly false all the time. Second, you are assuming the parents just went and said alright go ahead with out a care, and that is a bit of bullshit i would love to see real evidence on.... And third, you are assuming a child's safety is always in his best interest, well if thats the case don't let them out of your house ever...

Some people in this world have to push the limits.. Even as children they do. Some people make the gravest of errors with children... They think of life as something to be protected at all times, and in so doing they all too often forget the 'living" part... What you or I call a life well spent, and what some go getter child out to achieve something great by their own hand are often not the same...

I happen to enjoy my life for the most part.. I am very content to coach and do my job and raise my kids in a simple and relatively safe manner.

Now My son on the other hand, he wants to play major league baseball, and then practice law... or play the guitar LOL... he is 14 so the second part changes.. Either way when a person sees him practice and play they realize right away he is driven. He has a small following in this town he has maintained since he was 10 years old. he is the first to practice, and the last to leave. he watches a baseball game and picks it apart like he is studying for a test later. He does this on his own, and would do so regardless of my feelings on it. Just the other day I had to make him come in from the rain and stop practicing his swing...

now if I were to try and stop him because of a media story where a kid died from taking a ball to the chest at a game, would that be in his best interest or mine? I think it would be in mine and despite his....

And that is the point in all of this, be it baseball, boxing or sailing..

And you don't see that in EVERY case you mentioned there were responsible (hopefully) adults around? I coach, I have been a cub scout leader, I've done all that and knew and will know that when I'm the adult there and other parent's aren't it is because they trust their children to my care. Who's care was this child trusted to? Gods? Well that doesn't fly either because there are in fact laws against denying your children needed medicine because you trust in God.

STOP using sports that don't send a child out into nothingness by themselves for long periods of times in comparison to this. There is no legitimate comparison.

Going to break this up a little bit so there is no more ambiguity here.. you keep on trying to give a misleading account of my assertions here.. And I for one am growing weary of it..

And you don't see that in EVERY case you mentioned there were responsible (hopefully) adults around? I coach, I have been a cub scout leader, I've done all that and knew and will know that when I'm the adult there and other parent's aren't it is because they trust their children to my care. Who's care was this child trusted to? Gods? Well that doesn't fly either because there are in fact laws against denying your children needed medicine because you trust in God.

The kids who ride their bikes to the game or practice or home from the mare alone... Children get taken all the time and yet that is not parental child abuse... Again you are being reactionary on this... And you are forgetting its the childs life too... What you call safe that child called dull and lifeless.. now want to to argue whether or not it was a good choice, I will say it was not a good choice, but your are calling it abuse which it was not....

And the second part of that... WTF are you on about? Seriously god was not mentioned by me at all.... And I do not appreciate you trying to cast an inaccurate depiction of what I am contending here......

if you are not going to debate what I say in favor of categorizing it falsely to give a false impression of it, than you are being deliberately dishonest.. And that gets no more decent responses from me to you....

STOP using sports that don't send a child out into nothingness by themselves for long periods of times in comparison to this. There is no legitimate comparison.

Okay then you stop using false implications of what my posts say, stop using absolutes that are not factual nor accurate, stop calling people who disagree with you names, and all the other nonsense you just tried to pull here...

Sports are a fair comparison here like it or not. They both have risks of death at times. I also mentioned teen driving, going to parties and other such things but you ignore them and continue to cry about sports....

 

[syrenn]

You just proved my point, again. The state has already established that they CAN absolutely dictate certain things about the way you parent. Why should this be any different?

LOL, how did I prove you point?

Neither the Abby or her parents broke any LAWS. There were no "dictates" that were violated.

I agree that the state dictates certain things, I have never disagreed with that.

And where have I said that there were? What I have said is that there absolutely should be laws.

I have also said that the parents were neglectful. People have been found guilty of neglecting their teenage children for abandoning them at home on their own let alone for leaving them alone on the open sea for extended periods of time. Is it likely that these fools are charged? No, but could they be? You bet.

Actually this is the first you have said that as far as I know. Please tell me what laws should be put on the books?

 

[ConHog]

The kids who ride their bikes to the game or practice or home from the mare alone...

Oh come on, you're going to compare the dangers of sailing on the open ocean to those of driving a few blocks or miles? Get real

Children get taken all the time and yet that is not parental child abuse...

It certainly is abuse if you hand your child over to a known pedophile.

Again you are being reactionary on this... And you are forgetting its the childs life too... What you call safe that child called dull and lifeless.. now want to to argue whether or not it was a good choice, I will say it was not a good choice, but your are calling it abuse which it was not....

Are you serious? A parent's most important job is to prevent anyone from hurting their children, including at times themselves. My 2 y/o would love to grab a hot pan off the stove but as a responsible parent I tell her no no even though it's her hand.

And the second part of that... WTF are you on about? Seriously god was not mentioned by me at all.... And I do not appreciate you trying to cast an inaccurate depiction of what I am contending here......

I didn't say you brought God into anything did i?

if you are not going to debate what I say in favor of categorizing it falsely to give a false impression of it, than you are being deliberately dishonest.. And that gets no more decent responses from me to you....

STOP using sports that don't send a child out into nothingness by themselves for long periods of times in comparison to this. There is no legitimate comparison.

Okay then you stop using false implications of what my posts say, stop using absolutes that are not factual nor accurate, stop calling people who disagree with you names, and all the other nonsense you just tried to pull here...

Sports are a fair comparison here like it or not. They both have risks of death at times. I also mentioned teen driving, going to parties and other such things but you ignore them and continue to cry about sports....

If you will stop being stupid, I will be happy to stop calling you stupid.

 

[syrenn]

Oh come on, you're going to compare the dangers of sailing on the open ocean to those of driving a few blocks or miles? Get real

2,739 drivers between the ages of 15 and 20 died in motor vehicle crashes in 2008, down 13.7% from 3,174 in 2007 and down 20.2% from 3,431 in 1998.

Teen Driving Statistics

I think if there were that many young sailors dead we would hear about it, don't you ?

 

[syrenn]

Children get taken all the time and yet that is not parental child abuse...

It certainly is abuse if you hand your child over to a known pedophile.

Abby's parents did not hand her over to pedophiles.

 

[gslack]

The kids who ride their bikes to the game or practice or home from the mare alone...

Oh come on, you're going to compare the dangers of sailing on the open ocean to those of driving a few blocks or miles? Get real

Children get taken all the time and yet that is not parental child abuse...

It certainly is abuse if you hand your child over to a known pedophile.


Are you serious? A parent's most important job is to prevent anyone from hurting their children, including at times themselves. My 2 y/o would love to grab a hot pan off the stove but as a responsible parent I tell her no no even though it's her hand.


I didn't say you brought God into anything did i?

if you are not going to debate what I say in favor of categorizing it falsely to give a false impression of it, than you are being deliberately dishonest.. And that gets no more decent responses from me to you....

STOP using sports that don't send a child out into nothingness by themselves for long periods of times in comparison to this. There is no legitimate comparison.

Okay then you stop using false implications of what my posts say, stop using absolutes that are not factual nor accurate, stop calling people who disagree with you names, and all the other nonsense you just tried to pull here...

Sports are a fair comparison here like it or not. They both have risks of death at times. I also mentioned teen driving, going to parties and other such things but you ignore them and continue to cry about sports....

If you will stop being stupid, I will be happy to stop calling you stupid.

Ah ok, thanks for clarifying you are an asshole who will resort to this kind of bullshit when you can't debate your side any longer.... Got it...

Glad to know this, now we can dispense with the pleasantries from here on out...

Fuck you asshole... You been trying to dictate to everyone enough now..

Now go and dictate to someone you CAN bully.. You strike me as a wife beating type.. And an overbearing parent who has to brow beat their kid non-stop....

I call that child abuse... And so then it must be.... Sound familiar asswipe? it should it's exactly what you are doing here in this thread....

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Oh come on, you're going to compare the dangers of sailing on the open ocean to those of driving a few blocks or miles? Get real

2,739 drivers between the ages of 15 and 20 died in motor vehicle crashes in 2008, down 13.7% from 3,174 in 2007 and down 20.2% from 3,431 in 1998.

Teen Driving Statistics

I think if there were that many young sailors dead we would hear about it, don't you ?

I think we would here about it even one died.

 

[ConHog]

The kids who ride their bikes to the game or practice or home from the mare alone...

Oh come on, you're going to compare the dangers of sailing on the open ocean to those of driving a few blocks or miles? Get real


It certainly is abuse if you hand your child over to a known pedophile.


Are you serious? A parent's most important job is to prevent anyone from hurting their children, including at times themselves. My 2 y/o would love to grab a hot pan off the stove but as a responsible parent I tell her no no even though it's her hand.


I didn't say you brought God into anything did i?

if you are not going to debate what I say in favor of categorizing it falsely to give a false impression of it, than you are being deliberately dishonest.. And that gets no more decent responses from me to you....



Okay then you stop using false implications of what my posts say, stop using absolutes that are not factual nor accurate, stop calling people who disagree with you names, and all the other nonsense you just tried to pull here...

Sports are a fair comparison here like it or not. They both have risks of death at times. I also mentioned teen driving, going to parties and other such things but you ignore them and continue to cry about sports....

If you will stop being stupid, I will be happy to stop calling you stupid.

Ah ok, thanks for clarifying you are an asshole who will resort to this kind of bullshit when you can't debate your side any longer.... Got it...

Glad to know this, now we can dispense with the pleasantries from here on out...

Fuck you asshole... You been trying to dictate to everyone enough now..

Now go and dictate to someone you CAN bully.. You strike me as a wife beating type.. And an overbearing parent who has to brow beat their kid non-stop....

I call that child abuse... And so then it must be.... Sound familiar asswipe? it should it's exactly what you are doing here in this thread....

Present your evidence that I beat my wife.

I find it hilarious that you equate being a responsible parent to being an over bearing parent. That's laughable.

Brow beat my kid, you bet that's why he's 18 just graduated from HS with a 4.0 GPA, never been in trouble with the law, has worked since he was 16, doesn't smoke , drink, or do drugs, respects women and his elders and will enroll at the University on a combination golf/academic scholarship in the fall. Oh, he's also talking about following in my footsteps and joining the National Guard.

I obviously suck as a dad.

 

[ConHog]

Oh come on, you're going to compare the dangers of sailing on the open ocean to those of driving a few blocks or miles? Get real

2,739 drivers between the ages of 15 and 20 died in motor vehicle crashes in 2008, down 13.7% from 3,174 in 2007 and down 20.2% from 3,431 in 1998.

Teen Driving Statistics

I think if there were that many young sailors dead we would hear about it, don't you ?

I think we would here about it even one died.

I believe I clearly said percentage wise, not in total numbers.


But as I said way earlier in the thread, there is a reason why states are unanimously moving towards a graduated license for driving.

 

[syrenn]

Present your evidence that I beat my wife.

I find it hilarious that you equate being a responsible parent to being an over bearing parent. That's laughable.

Brow beat my kid, you bet that's why he's 18 just graduated from HS with a 4.0 GPA, never been in trouble with the law, has worked since he was 16, doesn't smoke , drink, or do drugs, respects women and his elders and will enroll at the University on a combination golf/academic scholarship in the fall. Oh, he's also talking about following in my footsteps and joining the National Guard.

I obviously suck as a dad.

I hate to say it but many "perfect" children such you describe are "perfect" becasue they have a pathological fear of their parents.

On the flip side of that, congratulations if your son doesn't hate and fear you, and is such a great kid!

 

[ConHog]

Present your evidence that I beat my wife.

I find it hilarious that you equate being a responsible parent to being an over bearing parent. That's laughable.

Brow beat my kid, you bet that's why he's 18 just graduated from HS with a 4.0 GPA, never been in trouble with the law, has worked since he was 16, doesn't smoke , drink, or do drugs, respects women and his elders and will enroll at the University on a combination golf/academic scholarship in the fall. Oh, he's also talking about following in my footsteps and joining the National Guard.

I obviously suck as a dad.

I hate to say it but many "perfect" children such you describe are "perfect" becasue they have a pathological fear of their parents.

On the flip side of that, congratulations if your son doesn't hate and fear you, and is such a great kid!

No, my son respects me, he doesn't fear me. In fact let me tell you this. I absolutely do not believe in spanking and in fact have never spanked my child nor will I spank the younger one. I can't say the same about the wife, but she doesn't consider it to be abuse.

 

[gslack]

Oh come on, you're going to compare the dangers of sailing on the open ocean to those of driving a few blocks or miles? Get real


It certainly is abuse if you hand your child over to a known pedophile.


Are you serious? A parent's most important job is to prevent anyone from hurting their children, including at times themselves. My 2 y/o would love to grab a hot pan off the stove but as a responsible parent I tell her no no even though it's her hand.


I didn't say you brought God into anything did i?


If you will stop being stupid, I will be happy to stop calling you stupid.

Ah ok, thanks for clarifying you are an asshole who will resort to this kind of bullshit when you can't debate your side any longer.... Got it...

Glad to know this, now we can dispense with the pleasantries from here on out...

Fuck you asshole... You been trying to dictate to everyone enough now..

Now go and dictate to someone you CAN bully.. You strike me as a wife beating type.. And an overbearing parent who has to brow beat their kid non-stop....

I call that child abuse... And so then it must be.... Sound familiar asswipe? it should it's exactly what you are doing here in this thread....

Present your evidence that I beat my wife.

I find it hilarious that you equate being a responsible parent to being an over bearing parent. That's laughable.

Brow beat my kid, you bet that's why he's 18 just graduated from HS with a 4.0 GPA, never been in trouble with the law, has worked since he was 16, doesn't smoke , drink, or do drugs, respects women and his elders and will enroll at the University on a combination golf/academic scholarship in the fall. Oh, he's also talking about following in my footsteps and joining the National Guard.

I obviously suck as a dad.

Ok......And you obviously don't get the point I made.... So we can add slow and a lack of social skills to your issues... I made the accusation to give you an example of what you are doing here, but you didn't get that at all..

not only did you not get it, you went on a desperate plea to defend yourself from an obvious attempt to show you what you have been doing in here..

I find that rather telling.... Why do i need evidence you beat your wife? Is there evidence of its? Are you confessing something here?

Tell ya what... lets put that same logic on your claims against the kids parents.....

Present your evidence the child was pushed or forced by her parents to do this....

Catching on yet??

 

[ConHog]

Ah ok, thanks for clarifying you are an asshole who will resort to this kind of bullshit when you can't debate your side any longer.... Got it...

Glad to know this, now we can dispense with the pleasantries from here on out...

Fuck you asshole... You been trying to dictate to everyone enough now..

Now go and dictate to someone you CAN bully.. You strike me as a wife beating type.. And an overbearing parent who has to brow beat their kid non-stop....

I call that child abuse... And so then it must be.... Sound familiar asswipe? it should it's exactly what you are doing here in this thread....

Present your evidence that I beat my wife.

I find it hilarious that you equate being a responsible parent to being an over bearing parent. That's laughable.

Brow beat my kid, you bet that's why he's 18 just graduated from HS with a 4.0 GPA, never been in trouble with the law, has worked since he was 16, doesn't smoke , drink, or do drugs, respects women and his elders and will enroll at the University on a combination golf/academic scholarship in the fall. Oh, he's also talking about following in my footsteps and joining the National Guard.

I obviously suck as a dad.

Ok......And you obviously don't get the point I made.... So we can add slow and a lack of social skills to your issues... I made the accusation to give you an example of what you are doing here, but you didn't get that at all..

not only did you not get it, you went on a desperate plea to defend yourself from an obvious attempt to show you what you have been doing in here..

I find that rather telling.... Why do i need evidence you beat your wife? Is there evidence of its? Are you confessing something here?

Tell ya what... lets put that same logic on your claims against the kids parents.....

Present your evidence the child was pushed or forced by her parents to do this....

Catching on yet??

I guess you just can't read then.. I have SEVERAL times posted evidence on this board, not my fault that you obviously didn't read the thread before you jumped in.

 

[gslack]

Present your evidence that I beat my wife.

I find it hilarious that you equate being a responsible parent to being an over bearing parent. That's laughable.

Brow beat my kid, you bet that's why he's 18 just graduated from HS with a 4.0 GPA, never been in trouble with the law, has worked since he was 16, doesn't smoke , drink, or do drugs, respects women and his elders and will enroll at the University on a combination golf/academic scholarship in the fall. Oh, he's also talking about following in my footsteps and joining the National Guard.

I obviously suck as a dad.

Ok......And you obviously don't get the point I made.... So we can add slow and a lack of social skills to your issues... I made the accusation to give you an example of what you are doing here, but you didn't get that at all..

not only did you not get it, you went on a desperate plea to defend yourself from an obvious attempt to show you what you have been doing in here..

I find that rather telling.... Why do i need evidence you beat your wife? Is there evidence of its? Are you confessing something here?

Tell ya what... lets put that same logic on your claims against the kids parents.....

Present your evidence the child was pushed or forced by her parents to do this....

Catching on yet??

I guess you just can't read then.. I have SEVERAL times posted evidence on this board, not my fault that you obviously didn't read the thread before you jumped in.

I said evidence not your or Jeraldo's bullshit claims or accusations.... now i got to go to bed please post some evidence if you have any.. i will check back tomorrow... Sorry but i have a life to maintain....

 

[ConHog]

Ok......And you obviously don't get the point I made.... So we can add slow and a lack of social skills to your issues... I made the accusation to give you an example of what you are doing here, but you didn't get that at all..

not only did you not get it, you went on a desperate plea to defend yourself from an obvious attempt to show you what you have been doing in here..

I find that rather telling.... Why do i need evidence you beat your wife? Is there evidence of its? Are you confessing something here?

Tell ya what... lets put that same logic on your claims against the kids parents.....

Present your evidence the child was pushed or forced by her parents to do this....

Catching on yet??

I guess you just can't read then.. I have SEVERAL times posted evidence on this board, not my fault that you obviously didn't read the thread before you jumped in.

I said evidence not your or Jeraldo's bullshit claims or accusations.... now i got to go to bed please post some evidence if you have any.. i will check back tomorrow... Sorry but i have a life to maintain....

Geraldo's bullshit ? He interviewed the people who repaired her boat mid journey who told him it was hurriedly repaired and wasn't in shape to face those seas. He interviewed a noted Australian yachtsmen who said that at this time of year no one should be sailing in that part of the ocean, especially alone. He interviewed several of her own family members who told him that Abby wanted to turn back when her boat broke down but that her father insisted that she continue. He also dug up proof t hat her father signed her to a reality show before she left.

BS =/= evidence you don't wanna hear.

 

[MikeK]

No

Abby Sunderland, Teen Sailor Possibly Lost at Sea - ABC News

What a role model.

I doubt her parents would have let her go if they thought for a second she was'nt prepared.

But how prepared can she be at age fifteen?

A solo voyage like that calls for exceptional seamanship which comes about only from experience -- and how much experience at anything can a fifteen year-old have?

As the father of three girls I was relieved when Abby was found. I wonder how her parents would feel if that kid was captured by Somali pirates and after being gang-raped for weeks was sold into compulsory prostitution? That very real possibility alone should have precluded the foolish adventure.

I can't understand her parents' reasoning.