Would you vote for a president who didn't believe in god?

[Bonnie]

???????????????

No!

 

[Kagom]

Allah, the Muslim god, perhaps with characteristics of the pagan Arabian moon god (although I'm sure Muslims would protest this)... yes, I believe there is a spiritual being whose followers call him "Allah." But he is not the Creator God of the Universe, the One Who IS. "Allah" is a created being, deceiving people into worshipping him.

This is the way in which I "acknowledge" Allah.

Fair enough.

 

[nt250]

Allah, the Muslim god, perhaps with characteristics of the pagan Arabian moon god (although I'm sure Muslims would protest this)... yes, I believe there is a spiritual being whose followers call him "Allah." But he is not the Creator God of the Universe, the One Who IS. "Allah" is a created being, deceiving people into worshipping him.

This is the way in which I "acknowledge" Allah.

And people wonder why I call people who believe in a God "stupid".

 

[Nienna]

And people wonder why I call people who believe in a God "stupid".

Sorry you feel that way.

 

[CharlestonChad]

And people wonder why I call people who believe in a God "stupid".

It's human nature.

 

[Nuc]

I don't know where to begin with this goofy thread.

Maybe like this. The question is whether you would vote for someone who believes in God. Muslims, Jews and Christians believe in God. Whether or not some of you approve of the God they believe in doesn't negate the meaning of the question. The Muslim and the Jew THINK they believe in God and that is the determining factor. To make this obvious point easier for some of you to understand, consider JFK. Many Protestants don't think the Catholics worship the same god or if they do, worship it properly. Nevertheless Kennedy believed in God and he was the president. End of story.

To the subject of non-God worshippers not being able to lead----Earth to USMB people, ever hear of Alexander the Great, Attila, Ashoka, and any of the other great leaders who did not believe in "GOD"? Christianity has only been around for 2000 years and there were plenty of great leaders before that. In the cultures that have not adopted Christianity there is no dearth of leadership.

Maybe the original poster should rephrase the question "Would you vote for a Non-Christian president?" Then you can feel free to say no. But to deny that Muslims or Jews worship God or to say that non-Christians can't lead is kind of stupid. Isn't it?

 

[nt250]

I don't know where to begin with this goofy thread.

Maybe like this. The question is whether you would vote for someone who believes in God. Muslims, Jews and Christians believe in God. Whether or not some of you approve of the God they believe in doesn't negate the meaning of the question. The Muslim and the Jew THINK they believe in God and that is the determining factor. To make this obvious point easier for some of you to understand, consider JFK. Many Protestants don't think the Catholics worship the same god or if they do, worship it properly. Nevertheless Kennedy believed in God and he was the president. End of story.

To the subject of non-God worshippers not being able to lead----Earth to USMB people, ever hear of Alexander the Great, Attila, Ashoka, and any of the other great leaders who did not believe in "GOD"? Christianity has only been around for 2000 years and there were plenty of great leaders before that. In the cultures that have not adopted Christianity there is no dearth of leadership.

Maybe the original poster should rephrase the question "Would you vote for a Non-Christian president?" Then you can feel free to say no. But to deny that Muslims or Jews worship God or to say that non-Christians can't lead is kind of stupid. Isn't it?

Um, do you realize that your post makes absolutely no sense at all?

You start out by seeming to know the difference between a belief in God and a specific religion, but you end by saying that only Christians believe in God.

You got me all confused.

 

[Nuc]

Um, do you realize that your post makes absolutely no sense at all?

You start out by seeming to know the difference between a belief in God and a specific religion, but you end by saying that only Christians believe in God.

You got me all confused.

Read it again. I'm saying that many of the respondents to the post have distorted the meaning of the question by saying that Jews and Muslims don't believe in God, when obviously they do. They have also said that only Christians can lead which is patently absurd.

 

[nt250]

Read it again. I'm saying that many of the respondents to the post have distorted the meaning of the question by saying that Jews and Muslims don't believe in God, when obviously they do. They have also said that only Christians can lead which is patently absurd.

I've read it 14 times and I still don't get it.

Here is a quote from your post:

"Earth to USMB people, ever hear of Alexander the Great, Attila, Ashoka, and any of the other great leaders who did not believe in "GOD"? Christianity has only been around for 2000 years and there were plenty of great leaders before that. In the cultures that have not adopted Christianity there is no dearth of leadership. "


Sorry, I guess I'm too dense to get your meaning. I couldn't tell if you were mocking people who don't think the concept of a god existed before Christianity, or if you believed so yourself.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Nuc]

Sorry, I guess I'm too dense to get your meaning. I couldn't tell if you were mocking people who don't think the concept of a god existed before Christianity, or if you believed so yourself.

Thanks for the clarification.

OK I'll try again. I am mocking the idea (espoused by some of these posters) that LEADERSHIP did not exist before Christianity. Or that you must be Christian to be a good leader. Or that non-Christians are immature and therefore incapable of leadership.

I would hazard a guess that many of the presidents didn't believe in God, but would never state that publicly because they knew it wouldn't be politically expedient.

 

[Gunny]

And people wonder why I call people who believe in a God "stupid".

Who's wondering? You've made your intolerance and hate rather obvious; yet, have substantiated NOTHING in your belief in disbelief.

 

[Gunny]

OK I'll try again. I am mocking the idea (espoused by some of these posters) that LEADERSHIP did not exist before Christianity. Or that you must be Christian to be a good leader. Or that non-Christians are immature and therefore incapable of leadership.

I would hazard a guess that many of the presidents didn't believe in God, but would never state that publicly because they knew it wouldn't be politically expedient.

Nuc buddy, you're trying too hard.

The God of Abraham, who is the God of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, is the same God ON PAPER. Obviously, the God of Abraham has evolved into three separate Gods since that time.

You're trying to be too literal with a statment that based on the poster, the intent is clear. Would you vote for a candidate that does not believe in the God of the Christian persuasion?

Since the typical "don't believe in God types" are ranters and haters and call believers "stupid," I cannot see the difference between putting one of them in office than I can Pat Robertson. The specific flavor or origin of the hate and intolerance is irrelevant, IMO.

 

[MissileMan]

The God of Abraham, who is the God of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, is the same God ON PAPER. Obviously, the God of Abraham has evolved into three separate Gods since that time.

Which perfectly illustrates that man created god...not the other way around.

 

[Gunny]

Which perfectly illustrates that man created god...not the other way around.

Reading a bit more into it than what's there. That three different groups have chosen three different definitions of one entity illustrates nothing but exactly that.

You and I have gone around enough that you know I'm not a sopabox-preaching, ranting Christian, and the "Is There a God?" debate is not the point of my post.

Just my interpretation of what's screwed up the Jews and Muslims.

 

[Nienna]

Which perfectly illustrates that man created god...not the other way around.

Men DO create gods; I agree. This does not mean that there is no God above and beyond man, from Whom the basic concept of worship arises.

 

[Eightball]

My response would be a maybe...........?

We've had some presidents in the past that were well known or had made it well-known, that they were biblical-Christian presidents......i.e. President Jimmy Carter.

Yet, President Carter in my opinion was one of our weakest, and most ineffective Presidents in recent history.

As a Past President, rhetoric about Iraq, and very left wing stances and statements lately make me really wonder about him, and his so-called faith in the biblically described God that he/Carter ascribes to.

His comments about the current administration, and his lack of support in this war against terrorism as it is be done by the current administration makes me really wonder about his ethics. He seems to have more sympathy for the folks that harbor such hatred for our country, it's policies and ethics, than for his own countrymen.
*
Bottom line.....a Prez that says he believes in God, or even carries around a 5 lb. King James bible to the National Cathedral on Sunday mornings doesn't impress me at all. If the man/woman's past actions of life, as it relates to eithics and morals parallel that of our country's past Judeau/Christian traditions of social, economic, and diplomatic I would be inclined to favor them.
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President Carter, opened my eyes, as a biblical Christian myself, that calling one's self Born Again, doesn't mean anything without actions of life to back up that moniker.

Many will say, "Lord, Lord", and He the Lord will say, "I don't know you.".

I am not questioning, President Carter's personal relationship with God...............Only God Himself knows the facts about that.........but President Carter sure has me puzzled......

The bible does say that Christians can become way off-base and do some pretty horrible things, when they lose sight of the focal point of their faith, namely Christ Himself. Christians can start out, obedient, and become the antithesis of good character, if they are not continually, on a daily basis keeping and maintaining their lives in position of surrender to the author of their Christian faith.

 

[Nuc]

Since the typical "don't believe in God types" are ranters and haters and call believers "stupid," I cannot see the difference between putting one of them in office than I can Pat Robertson. The specific flavor or origin of the hate and intolerance is irrelevant, IMO.

Maybe the typical atheist who feels the need to speak out fits your stereotype is strident, but there are plenty of atheists who have a "live and let live" attitude. Then there are millions of Buddhist atheists who don't have any problem with other people believing in God or gods.

Furthermore the definition of someone who believes in God is just that. Someone who believes in God.

Say you believe in the Christian God. On the other hand I believe that God is a giant turtle that spins around in the universe. Just because your definition doesn't suit my tastes doesn't negate the fact that YOU believe in God. God is in the heart of the believer. That's why Jews and Muslims believe in God whether or not you like that idea.

 

[Gunny]

Maybe the typical atheist who feels the need to speak out fits your stereotype is strident, but there are plenty of atheists who have a "live and let live" attitude. Then there are millions of Buddhist atheists who don't have any problem with other people believing in God or gods.

Furthermore the definition of someone who believes in God is just that. Someone who believes in God.

Say you believe in the Christian God. On the other hand I believe that God is a giant turtle that spins around in the universe. Just because your definition doesn't suit my tastes doesn't negate the fact that YOU believe in God. God is in the heart of the believer. That's why Jews and Muslims believe in God whether or not you like that idea.

My last comment about Jews and Muslims was 100%, pure sarcasm.

I am well aware there are plenty of "live and let live" athiests, just as there are plenty of "live and let live" Christians, Muslims, Jews, et al. Obviously, they are not part of the discussion.

Answering the question for the sake of argument on a message board (go figure) does not take into account that any candidate would have to be considered based on individual merit, IF one wanted to make an educated decision instead of just chanting the party chant and following the lemmings off the cliff at the polls.

One cannot ignore however that a vast majority in our society are Christian and hold Christian beliefs/morals/values. Naturally, they are going to lean toward someone who represents those beliefs before they are going to lean toward someone with no such conviction.

 

[Nuc]

One cannot ignore however that a vast majority in our society are Christian and hold Christian beliefs/morals/values. Naturally, they are going to lean toward someone who represents those beliefs before they are going to lean toward someone with no such conviction.

Of course that's totally natural and part of living in a democracy. That's also probably why democracy works better the more civilized the predominant religion of the country is. Bush is doing the right thing by trying to introduce the concept of democracy around the world, but I fear certain people are not really ready for it because their religious beliefs run counter to democracy in general and constitutional democracy in particular.

 

[Gunny]

Of course that's totally natural and part of living in a democracy. That's also probably why democracy works better the more civilized the predominant religion of the country is. Bush is doing the right thing by trying to introduce the concept of democracy around the world, but I fear certain people are not really ready for it because their religious beliefs run counter to democracy in general and constitutional democracy in particular.

Our brand of democracy is as foreign a concept in the Middle East as Arab culture is to most of WASP America. In that regard, I consider our Middle East policy not reality based. To introduce our form of democracy in the Middle East would take at a minimum 2 generations so that we had at least one generation raised in it. Neither the American public nor the Arabs are going to stand for that. Our attention span is good for about 3 years tops.

At best, they will have a bastardized form of democracy that incorporates Arab culture and Islam.