Would you? Could you?

[editec]

yeah they are, their hard earned cash

Really? Have your taxes gone up because of recent federal bills passing into law?

Mine have. Tobacco taxes were raised.
Next question.

Painful isn't it?

$7.87 per pack here in Maine, and they're seriously considering adding another dollar to the cost per pack.

When I started smoking, FYI, cigaretts were thirty-five cents a pack in a machine. or you could get them for slighly less over the counter.

That means that in my tobacco habituated lifetime the cost of ciggies has gone up 2000%!

 

[noose4]

i voted for him and i would vote for him again, it takes a massive effort to clean up the mess left by the prior administration, our healthcare is messed up and we finally have somebody who is trying to do something about it.

 

[KittenKoder]

Really? Have your taxes gone up because of recent federal bills passing into law?

Mine have. Tobacco taxes were raised.
Next question.

Painful isn't it?

$7.87 per pack here in Maine, and they're seriously considering adding another dollar to the cost per pack.

When I started smoking, FYI, cigaretts were thirty-five cents a pack in a machine. or you could get them for slighly less over the counter.

That means that in my tobacco habituated lifetime the cost of ciggies has gone up 2000%!

Damn ... you are cheaper than here, it's $10.00 a pack for generics here now. I am going to stop smoking then put all the money I save into a "Smoker's Rights" campaign ... we are after all a minority group now.

 

[Zoom-boing]

But what I'm most disappointed about is with the political backlash from the Right since his election, the Obama administration has weakened, and the US government and therfore its people have also been weakened.

CMM, I think you're giving the GOP machine way too much credit for the decline in the administrations clout and popularity. My take is that the voters were expecting Obama to make the economy bounce back in a few months - remember, most of them have the attention span of fleas, and besides, hardly anyone in this country knows squat about economics.

Yeah, I'll concede that. But I think the GOP machine is a contributing factor to the people's decline in their support of the POTUS. The GOP propagandizes things like "How long will the Obama Administration blame Bush?" when some of the current problems this nation faces like the withdrawal of troops from Iraq, the continuing fighting in Afghanistan (which, considering its Afghanistan, still might be the case even if it weren't for Iraq), are Bush's doing and his administration started those wars. The economy isn't any one POTUS's fault and I think its stupid that people think the POTUS really has that much influence over the economy. Things might've been worse if it hadn't been for the stimulus bill. Who knows? Nobody.

Obama's agenda and his actions (stimulus, omnibus, bailoutbus, gov't run health carebus, etc) are the contributing factor to the people's decline in their support of the POTUS.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Agreed: people who didn't vote for him are obviously missing something.

yeah they are, their hard earned cash

Really? Have your taxes gone up because of recent federal bills passing into law?

Yes, hubby smokes.

And they lowered (or are going to lower) the nicotine content in each ciggie. So in order to get their 'nicotine fix', smokers will have to buy more packs, therefore spending even more money.

Double whammy.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Obama's agenda and his actions (stimulus, omnibus, bailoutbus, gov't run health carebus, etc) are the contributing factor to the people's decline in their support of the POTUS.

But that doesn't make sense to me, Zoom. Those were the very reasons they elected him (except the bail-outs). Why, if he's attempting to uphold his campaign promises, would those who voted for him not want him to do the very things they voted for him to do?

 

[Zoom-boing]

But you can't deny that the GOP is a contributing factor in his struggles. They say "NO!" to everything he proposes even if its a continuation of Bush's policies that they earlier supported (like the corporate bailouts). And I don't blame everything on the Republicans, I mean, Obama did continue the corporate bailouts. He might've had the best intentions and was looking out for all those middle-class working-class Americans who might've ended up tanking when Chrysler, GMC, etc. were looking at Chapter 11 or even just drastically reducing production, but that's capitalism! Right? Those huge companies would've went under, taking smaller businesses with them, and new businesses would've had a chance to flourish (like aspens and wildflowers after a forest fire that destroys the pine population).

I'm glad that even you see the benefits of Capitalism. There is no reason the Government should reward and subsidize failure. GM is a failure. Ford is successful. If ANYTHING, we should be pouring our money into Ford, not GM.

But anyways, the "Party of NO" line does not work. Why? Fact of the matter is, the GOP has been neutered in this last election. They have virtually zero power in Washington. The American people have given the Democrats full control of the Government (a rare thing), and the ball is firmly in their court.

Right now, the dynamic is between Mr. Obama, his Democrat-Supermajority Congress, and the American people. If Mr. Obama is becoming unpopular, it is because of his own actions.

But "Obama inherited the problems from Bush!" you say. If Mr. Obama was not prepared to handle the problems from the last Administration, he should have stepped down in the Primaries.

If Obama cannot handle Bush's problems, he should resign and give the Presidency to someone who can.

Simple as that.

Uncle shouldn't be pouring money into any of them, including Ford.

Yup on the rest of your thread.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Obama's agenda and his actions (stimulus, omnibus, bailoutbus, gov't run health carebus, etc) are the contributing factor to the people's decline in their support of the POTUS.

But that doesn't make sense to me, Zoom. Those were the very reasons they elected him (except the bail-outs). Why, if he's attempting to uphold his campaign promises, would those who voted for him not want him to do the very things they voted for him to do?

People voted for him because they knew he would outspend Bush by -- how much is it again?

He's losing support because he is turning out to be just like all the other pols. He campaigned on 'change' . . . then goes in and . . . . what change? Ok, spending more than his predecessor is change I guess.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

People voted for him because they knew he would outspend Bush by -- how much is it again?

He's losing support because he is turning out to be just like all the other pols. He campaigned on 'change' . . . then goes in and . . . . what change? Ok, spending more than his predecessor is change I guess.

Zoom, c'mon! Nobody voted for Obama cause they knew he'd spend more. Its not like Democrats or liberals (who aren't the same thing, but can go hand-in-hand) just want the government to spend, spend, spend.

And he's been in office, how long? Six months? I think people are just impatient. How is he going to keep all of his campaign promises in just the first six months of his term when there is all this other shit going on?! The economy isn't just simply going to turn around over night.

Don't get me wrong, although I defend the POTUS against some really whacked out conservative ideologue attacks, I don't defend him against valid, legitimate criticism, such as continuing Bush's bail-outs.

I think the GOP is doing they're best to take the President out at the knees so they can get back into power, even if the ways in which they are doing it is underhanded and hurts the public interest (like not proposing their own fix for the healthcare problem - just criticising Obama's and not working across the aisle to come up with a better solution). I wonder how many GOP politicians are in the health insurance and pharmaceutical and malpractice litigation companies' pockets?

 

[Zoom-boing]

You said:

But that doesn't make sense to me, Zoom. Those were the very reasons they elected him (except the bail-outs). Why, if he's attempting to uphold his campaign promises, would those who voted for him not want him to do the very things they voted for him to do?

implying that people voted for him because they knew he would spend more money.

My response:

People voted for him because they knew he would outspend Bush by -- how much is it again?

He's losing support because he is turning out to be just like all the other pols. He campaigned on 'change' . . . then goes in and . . . . what change? Ok, spending more than his predecessor is change I guess.

Zoom, c'mon! Nobody voted for Obama cause they knew he'd spend more. Its not like Democrats or liberals (who aren't the same thing, but can go hand-in-hand) just want the government to spend, spend, spend.

Tell that to Pelosi, Reid and the rest.

And he's been in office, how long? Six months? I think people are just impatient. How is he going to keep all of his campaign promises in just the first six months of his term when there is all this other shit going on?! The economy isn't just simply going to turn around over night.

He pushed and shoved the stimuless package through because if we didn't, OMG unemployment would hit 8.5%. What's it at now? Has it hit 10% yet? Sorry, he's losing support because of his actions.

Don't get me wrong, although I defend the POTUS against some really whacked out conservative ideologue attacks, I don't defend him against valid, legitimate criticism, such as continuing Bush's bail-outs.

I think the GOP is doing they're best to take the President out at the knees so they can get back into power, even if the ways in which they are doing it is underhanded and hurts the public interest (like not proposing their own fix for the healthcare problem - just criticising Obama's and not working across the aisle to come up with a better solution). I wonder how many GOP politicians are in the health insurance and pharmaceutical and malpractice litigation companies' pockets?

That's bull, there are threads on here about what they're proposing. Google it.

Republicans plan rival U.S. healthcare plan | Health | Reuters

But the left continues it's spin, that the GOP is the 'party of no' -- even if it is underhanded and hurts the public interest.

Aren't a handful of both parties talking and coming up with solutions as we speak?

The Associated Press: AP sources: Senators near bipartisan health deal

 

[MaggieMae]

You said:

But that doesn't make sense to me, Zoom. Those were the very reasons they elected him (except the bail-outs). Why, if he's attempting to uphold his campaign promises, would those who voted for him not want him to do the very things they voted for him to do?

implying that people voted for him because they knew he would spend more money.

My response:

People voted for him because they knew he would outspend Bush by -- how much is it again?

He's losing support because he is turning out to be just like all the other pols. He campaigned on 'change' . . . then goes in and . . . . what change? Ok, spending more than his predecessor is change I guess.

Tell that to Pelosi, Reid and the rest.

And he's been in office, how long? Six months? I think people are just impatient. How is he going to keep all of his campaign promises in just the first six months of his term when there is all this other shit going on?! The economy isn't just simply going to turn around over night.

He pushed and shoved the stimuless package through because if we didn't, OMG unemployment would hit 8.5%. What's it at now? Has it hit 10% yet? Sorry, he's losing support because of his actions.

Don't get me wrong, although I defend the POTUS against some really whacked out conservative ideologue attacks, I don't defend him against valid, legitimate criticism, such as continuing Bush's bail-outs.

I think the GOP is doing they're best to take the President out at the knees so they can get back into power, even if the ways in which they are doing it is underhanded and hurts the public interest (like not proposing their own fix for the healthcare problem - just criticising Obama's and not working across the aisle to come up with a better solution). I wonder how many GOP politicians are in the health insurance and pharmaceutical and malpractice litigation companies' pockets?

That's bull, there are threads on here about what they're proposing. Google it.

Republicans plan rival U.S. healthcare plan | Health | Reuters

But the left continues it's spin, that the GOP is the 'party of no' -- even if it is underhanded and hurts the public interest.

Aren't a handful of both parties talking and coming up with solutions as we speak?

The Associated Press: AP sources: Senators near bipartisan health deal

Your first link is old, and there was no action taken. The second one is current, but no thanks to Republicans other than those on the Senate Finance Committee. This is what bears watching closely over the next few days.

Nope--Republicans had several chances to jump in, but passed. They realized that the majority of Americans do indeed want some kind of health reform, but that even anything they could offer would be costly, so they figure by staying mum and doing pep talks, they will maintain their credibility as players.

Broken Promises: GOP's "Health Care Solutions Group" Admits It Won't Have A Solution | Media Matters Action Network

 

[Centrism'sVoice]

The ones who didn't vote for him in the first place seem to be making the most noise about it in a thread that supposedly shouldn't involve them at all. Pretty pathetic, if you ask me.

 

[Zoom-boing]

That's bull, there are threads on here about what they're proposing. Google it.

Republicans plan rival U.S. healthcare plan | Health | Reuters

But the left continues it's spin, that the GOP is the 'party of no' -- even if it is underhanded and hurts the public interest.

Aren't a handful of both parties talking and coming up with solutions as we speak?

The Associated Press: AP sources: Senators near bipartisan health deal

Your first link is old, and there was no action taken. The second one is current, but no thanks to Republicans other than those on the Senate Finance Committee. This is what bears watching closely over the next few days.

Damn it! I could have sworn that the date said 'Jul 16' not 'Jun 16'!

Nope--Republicans had several chances to jump in, but passed. They realized that the majority of Americans do indeed want some kind of health reform, but that even anything they could offer would be costly, so they figure by staying mum and doing pep talks, they will maintain their credibility as players.

Broken Promises: GOP's "Health Care Solutions Group" Admits It Won't Have A Solution | Media Matters Action Network

They did jump in. Nice spin though.

H.R. 1495: Comprehensive Health Care Reform Act of 2009 (GovTrack.us)

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...-gop-whacko-on-health-care-2.html#post1354244

In this thread go to page 6, post #77 by PoliticalChic and page 8 post #110 by Ceclie1200:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/83065-what-is-the-republican-health-care-plan.html

ETA: All you lefties who ***** and spread your media-gleaned lies about the GOP being the party of 'No' --- stfu.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/29/house-republicans-release-b-health-care-plan/

 

[Lonestar_logic]

The Right-leaning atmosphere or environment of American politics makes it nearly impossible for a non-conservative President to get anything done

Oh, come on, Coloradomtnman... Surely you jest. The Democrats have complete control of both the House and the Senate. There isn't anything they can't pass into law if they so choose to do so. There isn't enough Republican resistance in either House of Congress to stop the Democrats from a pure old cake walk if that is what they desire. You can't blame any of Obama's short-comings on the Republicans or conservatives. He is loosing support from his own party because they are beginning to see him for what he is. If this stupid health care bill he is pushing so hard for doesn't make it into law the Democrats are going to run from him like rats on a sinking ship. The Democrats couldn't pass health care reform before because they wanted it to be government controlled. It isn't going to pass this time either because people don't want government controlled health care. I agree that reform is needed but the US government has absolutely no business in the health care business. It isn't something dictated by the Constitution. You can't hang Obama's failures on the Republicans. That shirt just doesn't fit.

He's only losing support over the health care issue, and then only because people can't decide whether taking the chance that eventually it will be cost effective is worth the risk. If he loses on this one, it won't be so damaging as to render him a lame duck already, so I hope you don't bet the farm yet.

He's losing support because the CBO reported that the cost would be in the trillions while saving a few billion dollars and only a fraction of the uninsured would be insured.

What I don't understand is why you people want to be forced to aquire health insurance, I don't have it, I've never had it and I don't want it now or ever!!! Just leave me the **** out of it!!! I'll take care of me and my family, you take care of your and leave everyone else the **** alone!!

 

[MaggieMae]

Oh, come on, Coloradomtnman... Surely you jest. The Democrats have complete control of both the House and the Senate. There isn't anything they can't pass into law if they so choose to do so. There isn't enough Republican resistance in either House of Congress to stop the Democrats from a pure old cake walk if that is what they desire. You can't blame any of Obama's short-comings on the Republicans or conservatives. He is loosing support from his own party because they are beginning to see him for what he is. If this stupid health care bill he is pushing so hard for doesn't make it into law the Democrats are going to run from him like rats on a sinking ship. The Democrats couldn't pass health care reform before because they wanted it to be government controlled. It isn't going to pass this time either because people don't want government controlled health care. I agree that reform is needed but the US government has absolutely no business in the health care business. It isn't something dictated by the Constitution. You can't hang Obama's failures on the Republicans. That shirt just doesn't fit.

He's only losing support over the health care issue, and then only because people can't decide whether taking the chance that eventually it will be cost effective is worth the risk. If he loses on this one, it won't be so damaging as to render him a lame duck already, so I hope you don't bet the farm yet.

He's losing support because the CBO reported that the cost would be in the trillions while saving a few billion dollars and only a fraction of the uninsured would be insured.

What I don't understand is why you people want to be forced to aquire health insurance, I don't have it, I've never had it and I don't want it now or ever!!! Just leave me the **** out of it!!! I'll take care of me and my family, you take care of your and leave everyone else the **** alone!!

So I guess if you became terminally ill, your family would pay for all your medical costs out of pocket? Must be nice.

 

[Centrism'sVoice]

What I don't understand is why you people want to be forced to aquire health insurance, I don't have it, I've never had it and I don't want it now or ever!!! Just leave me the **** out of it!!! I'll take care of me and my family, you take care of your and leave everyone else the **** alone!!

So I guess if you became terminally ill, your family would pay for all your medical costs out of pocket? Must be nice.

All that money must come from royalties he gets for having trademarked the exclamation point and the word '****.'

 

[eagleseven]

People voted for him because they knew he would outspend Bush by -- how much is it again?

He's losing support because he is turning out to be just like all the other pols. He campaigned on 'change' . . . then goes in and . . . . what change? Ok, spending more than his predecessor is change I guess.

Zoom, c'mon! Nobody voted for Obama cause they knew he'd spend more. Its not like Democrats or liberals (who aren't the same thing, but can go hand-in-hand) just want the government to spend, spend, spend.

And he's been in office, how long? Six months? I think people are just impatient. How is he going to keep all of his campaign promises in just the first six months of his term when there is all this other shit going on?! The economy isn't just simply going to turn around over night.

Don't get me wrong, although I defend the POTUS against some really whacked out conservative ideologue attacks, I don't defend him against valid, legitimate criticism, such as continuing Bush's bail-outs.

I think the GOP is doing they're best to take the President out at the knees so they can get back into power, even if the ways in which they are doing it is underhanded and hurts the public interest (like not proposing their own fix for the healthcare problem - just criticising Obama's and not working across the aisle to come up with a better solution). I wonder how many GOP politicians are in the health insurance and pharmaceutical and malpractice litigation companies' pockets?

Perhaps it is a combination of factors that is upsetting the American public?

Factors like;

1. He jammed an $800 trillion spending bill through in his first month of office, giving nobody a chance to read it. This after promising "A new era of government transparency."

2. He delays, stalls, and ultimate does a 180 on Gitmo. He ran his campaign against Gitmo, and now he wants to establish a new "Preventative Detention Paradigm" compared by his own supporters to Minority Report.

3. He ran as the post-racial candidate, and yet almost every week, one of his appointees is out making racist/racialist statements. Just off memory, Obama has taught me that white males are cowards, unwise, naturally discriminate against blacks, and act stupidly. We voted him in to stop this bullshit, and yet it's only getting worse...

4. He has promised health care reform that will reduce costs. He says it will reduce costs. The Congressional Budget Office then comes out and says it will raise costs. Either Obama is lying, or he really has no clue what is in the Healthcare bill, and is supporting it blindly. This scares people at a deep level. If our President doesn't understand the healthcare bill, how the hell is he supposed to make it better? Beginners luck?

5. Biden has an annoying habit of publicly saying what he is thinking, only to be rebuffed by Obama the following day. Americans largely feel that Biden is telling the truth Mr. Obama does not want us to hear. Rather like the innocent child who tells Daddy what Mommy really thinks of him.

6. Nearly 10 months since we've started pumping money into GM, it still failed. What does Obama do? He nationalizes the industry, despite the fact that an overwhelming majority of Americans think the GM bailouts were a bad idea. I don't know ANYONE who is happy with Government Motors.

7. Last, but definitely not least, 6 months after starting the largest spending programs in the history of the US, our economy is still in the shitter, and people are still losing their jobs.

If passing the Stimulus was "urgent" then it needed to have an immediate effect. It had no immediate effect.

If you argue "it will take time for the stimulus to take effect," then it is NOT a Keynesian stimulus, and will not stimulate the economy by any known economic theory. It is an unprecedented spending bill passed when the country is broke.


It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize why Obama's numbers are slipping. You just need to have your eyes open and connect the dots.


Americans don't understand the technicalities, but they can feel in their guts, we're on a collision course.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Perhaps it is a combination of factors that is upsetting the American public?

Factors like;

1. He jammed an $800 trillion spending bill through in his first month of office, giving nobody a chance to read it. This after promising "A new era of government transparency."

I think you're partially right about this. I am of the school that Roosevelt's New Deal helped bring the US out of the Great Depression. I think there is more than one factor, but the New Deal helped. So I think the stimulus money is helping, even though its hard to see. However, I have been disappointed in the lack of government transparency that Obama spoke of before taking office.

2. He delays, stalls, and ultimate does a 180 on Gitmo. He ran his campaign against Gitmo, and now he wants to establish a new "Preventative Detention Paradigm" compared by his own supporters to Minority Report.

Definitely true. I had forgotten about this in my earlier post about Obama Administration disappointments.

3. He ran as the post-racial candidate, and yet almost every week, one of his appointees is out making racist/racialist statements. Just off memory, Obama has taught me that white males are cowards, unwise, naturally discriminate against blacks, and act stupidly. We voted him in to stop this bullshit, and yet it's only getting worse...

I don't know about this, eagle. I don't think he ran as a post-racial candidate. I think he ran implying himself as a racial candidate. There was the speech about his grandmother, the speech about black fathers, etc. I have to agree with some conservatives on this point that to ignore race is to ignore reality. Sotomayor, whether she is the best choice or not, is a latina. Obama's speech about Gates and the Cambridge PD was a politically strategic missed-opportunity and trip-up but I don't think it was racial at all. Obama could have used the moment to highlight race-relations in this country but instead in poor a choice used the word "stupidly " (whether true or not) to describe the police officers actions. I don't know where you got that Obama believes white males are cowards, unwise, naturally racist against blacks or act stupidly. I don't think any of those statements has ever been directed, if said, at white men. The "acted stupidly" comment was directed at one white man in particular, not all white men.

4. He has promised health care reform that will reduce costs. He says it will reduce costs. The Congressional Budget Office then comes out and says it will raise costs. Either Obama is lying, or he really has no clue what is in the Healthcare bill, and is supporting it blindly. This scares people at a deep level. If our President doesn't understand the healthcare bill, how the hell is he supposed to make it better? Beginners luck?

He promised cheaper healthcare for middle-class and impoverished Americans. He promised reduced healthcare costs for small businesses. He didn't say it would be cheap for the government nor for the top 1 percent or large corporations.

5. Biden has an annoying habit of publicly saying what he is thinking, only to be rebuffed by Obama the following day. Americans largely feel that Biden is telling the truth Mr. Obama does not want us to hear. Rather like the innocent child who tells Daddy what Mommy really thinks of him.

I haven't experienced this or even heard about it (not that I'm saying it isn't true) so I can't comment with any legitimacy.

6. Nearly 10 months since we've started pumping money into GM, it still failed. What does Obama do? He nationalizes the industry, despite the fact that an overwhelming majority of Americans think the GM bailouts were a bad idea. I don't know ANYONE who is happy with Government Motors.

I think saying that GM has been nationalized is a bit of a reactionary response. I agree that we shouldn't have bailed them out, or failed to bail them out. They went through bankruptcy so our bail out was useless. But the government takeover? So what? Have you purchased a shitty GM car since the government got involved with GM? No? Have you purchased a GM car in the last 10 years? Cause let me tell you, Jeeps, GMCs, and Saturns are aren't great cars. I hardly believe that GM is going to remain under government control for very long, and the government isn't really managing GM, the GM management is managing it.

7. Last, but definitely not least, 6 months after starting the largest spending programs in the history of the US, our economy is still in the shitter, and people are still losing their jobs.

If passing the Stimulus was "urgent" then it needed to have an immediate effect. It had no immediate effect.

If you argue "it will take time for the stimulus to take effect," then it is NOT a Keynesian stimulus, and will not stimulate the economy by any known economic theory. It is an unprecedented spending bill passed when the country is broke.

Like I said earlier, who knows the extent that the stimulus helped? Perhaps things would be worse had it not been for the stimulus. There are economists arguing both sides. I'm not an economist but I realize that recessions like this one don't go away over night.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize why Obama's numbers are slipping. You just need to have your eyes open and connect the dots.

Americans don't understand the technicalities, but they can feel in their guts, we're on a collision course.

A collision course with what? Communism! Velcome to Ahmehreeka, comrade! Please, eagle, that just sounds reactionary (which is a very GOP-like habit). I have appreciated and found your posts compelling and challenging (like the one I'm responding to now), so please don't combine your critical thinking and analytical skills with reactionary statements, it diminishes the effects of your earlier very sharp and well-put points.

 

[Newby]

I would still vote for Obama, like Centrism's Voice put it. I would never have voted for a Republican unless that Republican was McCain in 2000 (before he became Bush's cronie). And I would NEVER have voted for a candidate like Palin, who was nothing more than a political gimmick and an election-strategy of a desperate campaign.

But, I am disappointed in the Obama administration. I would never have supported the corporate bailouts. I would never have supported health care reform as it is currently seemingly attempting to happen. I'm disappointed in his lack of support for homosexuals, as in continuing "Don't Ask, Don't Tell".

But what I'm most disappointed about is with the political backlash from the Right since his election, the Obama administration has weakened, and the US government and therfore its people have also been weakened. Democrats in Congress are flip-flopping. I'm disappointed with the way things have turned out, and I guess I shouldn't be because politics in the US are turds in a whirlpool that never quite goes down the toilet and I should've figured it out by now.

The Right-leaning atmosphere or environment of American politics makes it nearly impossible for a non-conservative President to get anything done. Just look at what Republicans did to Clinton. They never accept anyone but a Republican as President, and if someone other than a Republican gets into the Oval office, the GOP does everything it can to de-legitimize and discredit them. With Clinton there was Whitewater, then Paula Jones, then Monica Lewinski, the Starr report, blah blah blah. Petty shit that divided the country, and therefore necessarily weakened the country. When Obama was running for President the GOP played up that he "palled around with terrorists", that his minister said "Goddamn America", that Obama isn't a Christian, that he isn't even born a US citizen, they call him a marxist and a socialist even though he's not even close (I'm a socialist), that his middle name is Hussein big ******* xeno-Islamaphobic wah! Most Democrats backed the Patriot Bill. They supported the war in Afghanistan and Iraq despite the liberal outcry. In other words, the understood the importance, especially during a time of war and crisis, of supporting the President. They let go of the ideology to work for a common cause: the safety and security and strength of the American people even if its misguided. The GOP would never do that and, instead, will do their best to discredit the President, to divide the country, to undermine the President's authority and support, just to show that their way is the RIGHT way when really its just the ONLY way they'll accept, even if it means continuing the status quo.

Like when conservatives say that government programs don't work, so why should we fund them, and then when the government program doesn't work because its underfunded, Republicans exclaim, "See! I told ya!"

It's kinda funny, 'underfunding' is always the progessive's excuse for why their plans never work. They can never just throw enough money at a problem to solve it, so of course that means they have to take more of yours then. It's both sad and amusing how people fall for that lame ass excuse all the time.

 

[Newby]

That's bull, there are threads on here about what they're proposing. Google it.

Republicans plan rival U.S. healthcare plan | Health | Reuters

But the left continues it's spin, that the GOP is the 'party of no' -- even if it is underhanded and hurts the public interest.

Aren't a handful of both parties talking and coming up with solutions as we speak?

The Associated Press: AP sources: Senators near bipartisan health deal

Your first link is old, and there was no action taken. The second one is current, but no thanks to Republicans other than those on the Senate Finance Committee. This is what bears watching closely over the next few days.

Damn it! I could have sworn that the date said 'Jul 16' not 'Jun 16'!

Nope--Republicans had several chances to jump in, but passed. They realized that the majority of Americans do indeed want some kind of health reform, but that even anything they could offer would be costly, so they figure by staying mum and doing pep talks, they will maintain their credibility as players.

Broken Promises: GOP's "Health Care Solutions Group" Admits It Won't Have A Solution | Media Matters Action Network

They did jump in. Nice spin though.

H.R. 1495: Comprehensive Health Care Reform Act of 2009 (GovTrack.us)

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...-gop-whacko-on-health-care-2.html#post1354244

In this thread go to page 6, post #77 by PoliticalChic and page 8 post #110 by Ceclie1200:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/83065-what-is-the-republican-health-care-plan.html

ETA: All you lefties who ***** and spread your media-gleaned lies about the GOP being the party of 'No' --- stfu.

House Republicans Release $700B Health Care Plan - Political News - FOXNews.com