Zone1 Would studying from a Reform Rabbi genuinely hurt ones understanding of Judaism?

[shockedcanadian]

My study has its presentational roots from Orthodox Rabbis. I am curious if there is any value in hearing from any Rabbis from the Reform movement, which is the largest growing sect of Judaism in North America apparently? Rabbi Breitowitz for my studying, outside of books, has been a treasure as he is from America (once had a promising career in law but I believe he now resides in Israel) and he is very well read on the Torah and Judaism theology. So well educated in fact, that he takes rapid fire questions from students in what I presume is his Yeshiva while being so educated that he will often throw in varying opinions, "some (insert Jewish community or person) believe _______", on such and such a subject. His deliver is also very relaxed and humble. That said, from the OP subject, are there any Reform Rabbi one could honestly learn from, or would it be a poor representation to be exposed to.and it's best to learn from the Orthodox? Even any prominent Conservatives worthwhile.learning from or would they just ruin my learning? Thank you for your time.

 

[Cougarbear]

My study has its presentational roots from Orthodox Rabbis. I am curious if there is any value in hearing from any Rabbis from the Reform movement, which is the largest growing sect of Judaism in North America apparently? Rabbi Breitowitz for my studying, outside of books, has been a treasure as he is from America (once had a promising career in law but I believe he now resides in Israel) and he is very well read on the Torah and Judaism theology. So well educated in fact, that he takes rapid fire questions from students in what I presume is his Yeshiva while being so educated that he will often throw in varying opinions, "some (insert Jewish community or person) believe _______", on such and such a subject. His deliver is also very relaxed and humble. That said, from the OP subject, are there any Reform Rabbi one could honestly learn from, or would it be a poor representation to be exposed to.and it's best to learn from the Orthodox? Even any prominent Conservatives worthwhile.learning from or would they just ruin my learning? Thank you for your time.

This is the same question that we find with Christianity. What makes a person a Christian? So, what makes a person Jewish? It seems like a simple question. But, each sect has a bit different interpretation of what makes you a Christian or what makes you a Jew? So, what is the definition of being Jewish?

On a side note, it used to be that if your were not Orthodox Jews then you were not even allowed into an Orthodox synagogue. And, non-Orthodox Jews were shunned by Orthodox Jews. I was lucky that while my parents were "conservative-reform" and my Aunt and her family were Orthodox, that they accepted us without question and snubbed their insane rabbis when it came to family. In fact, when I converted to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, my aunt still contacts me 48 years later. When I married a member of that Church before I converted, she came to my wedding. She still says it was the most beautiful and best wedding she's been at. When my wife and I went to visit her and my cousins in 2013, we went to a service in their Orthodox synagogue in Toronto.

 

[shockedcanadian]

This is the same question that we find with Christianity. What makes a person a Christian? So, what makes a person Jewish? It seems like a simple question. But, each sect has a bit different interpretation of what makes you a Christian or what makes you a Jew? So, what is the definition of being Jewish?

On a side note, it used to be that if your were not Orthodox Jews then you were not even allowed into an Orthodox synagogue. And, non-Orthodox Jews were shunned by Orthodox Jews. I was lucky that while my parents were "conservative-reform" and my Aunt and her family were Orthodox, that they accepted us without question and snubbed their insane rabbis when it came to family. In fact, when I converted to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, my aunt still contacts me 48 years later. When I married a member of that Church before I converted, she came to my wedding. She still says it was the most beautiful and best wedding she's been at. When my wife and I went to visit her and my cousins in 2013, we went to a service in their Orthodox synagogue in Toronto.

If and when I officially convert, at a time when I am in a peaceful point in my life (unlike the turmoil I am going through atm); I will do so through an Orthodox denomination. Reform may be nice training wheels for those peripherally interested in Judaism but you need to follow tradition, the Torah and the Talmud for guidance and inspiration in my opinion. Judaism has plenty of flexibility but converts should.be more committed than those who were raised in the religion. In fact, I have read some Jewish authors state just this, converts he met in his travels were most loyal to the faith. They made.a conscious decision to convert and find G-d, this requires great dedication and even sacrifice to be loyal to the faith.

 

[Cougarbear]

If and when I officially convert, at a time when I am in a peaceful point in my life (unlike the turmoil I am going through atm); I will do so through an Orthodox denomination. Reform may be nice training wheels for those peripherally interested in Judaism but you need to follow tradition, the Torah and the Talmud for guidance and inspiration in my opinion. Judaism has plenty of flexibility but converts should.be more committed than those who were raised in the religion. In fact, I have read some Jewish authors state just this, converts he met in his travels were most loyal to the faith. They made a conscious decision to convert and find G-d, this requires great dedication and even sacrifice to be loyal to the faith.

Your explanation is why I reject many of the Orthodox Christian Churches. Many baptize infants and children too young to make a conscious accountable decision. That age of accountability to me means they understand the consequences of their actions even unto murder for they understand the finality of death. Adam and Eve had no understanding of death when they were told that they would surely die if they ate the fruit of that tree. Most children before the age of 8 do not understand the finality of death. Even most 7 year old's when a pet dies, they wait for it to come back to life. We buried a pet bird once in the back yard and my 5 and 7 year old would go back every day waiting for the bird to come back out of the dirt. My 9 year old knew the bird would not come back. But, he understood the concept of resurrection of the body and spirit and hoped that we would again be with the bird in heaven, the Celestial Kingdom. In The Book of Mormon, it's evil to baptize those under the age of accountability. That little children like this have no need for baptism for they cannot sin yet.

I also would ask that same question, what make a religion or church, Orthodox? If it's strictness to the laws, doctrine and ordinances (rituals) then none compare with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. With the Orders of the Priesthood after Melchizedek and Aaron (levitical), all ordinance are performed by worthy males holding the lesser for things like baptism and the sacraments and the higher priesthood for giving the gift of the Holy Ghost, healing blessings and all Temple ordinance work shared with the women only in the Temple (If you know what they are you would understand why). And, we believe that we work to better our relationship with the Godhead through our works and efforts to bless others with and endure to the end.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Your explanation is why I reject many of the Orthodox Christian Churches. Many baptize infants and children too young to make a conscious accountable decision. That age of accountability to me means they understand the consequences of their actions even unto murder for they understand the finality of death. Adam and Eve had no understanding of death when they were told that they would surely die if they ate the fruit of that tree. Most children before the age of 8 do not understand the finality of death. Even most 7 year old's when a pet dies, they wait for it to come back to life. We buried a pet bird once in the back yard and my 5 and 7 year old would go back every day waiting for the bird to come back out of the dirt. My 9 year old knew the bird would not come back. But, he understood the concept of resurrection of the body and spirit and hoped that we would again be with the bird in heaven, the Celestial Kingdom. In The Book of Mormon, it's evil to baptize those under the age of accountability. That little children like this have no need for baptism for they cannot sin yet.

I also would ask that same question, what make a religion or church, Orthodox? If it's strictness to the laws, doctrine and ordinances (rituals) then none compare with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. With the Orders of the Priesthood after Melchizedek and Aaron (levitical), all ordinance are performed by worthy males holding the lesser for things like baptism and the sacraments and the higher priesthood for giving the gift of the Holy Ghost, healing blessings and all Temple ordinance work shared with the women only in the Temple (If you know what they are you would understand why). And, we believe that we work to better our relationship with the Godhead through our works and efforts to bless others with and endure to the end.

It's complicated regarding the young as the decisions is made for them. I was baptised as a baby as well, I suppose this is part of ones upbringing, all kids have their religion essentialy chosen for them at birth. Once a child ages, they can decide for themselves through their own exploration of theology and G-d. The signs for me really were perhaps decided by G-d. I was born in a Jewish hospital for instance. Whether my mother.who was young.when she had me made this decision consciously or because our family doctor.was Jewish is difficult to know. So even before I had life (I spent a couple of months in an incubator), I was being brought to life by G-ds Chosen People. The amazing chance of it all isn't lost on me as I never knew so many details/coincidences that is encouraging me to "go back home". I could not have known these.relwtions until I made the personal decision to pursue an interest in Judaism. My challenge now is to eventually find a synagogue and a Rabbi. I don't live in such an area but I hope to eventually. The truth is that G-d and his commands are very serious to maintain but also very enjoyable and natural for me. I'm not sure anyone really chooses their faith ultimately, it just ferments internally until it becomes a reality one day.

 

[Cougarbear]

It's complicated regarding the young as the decisions is made for them. I was baptised as a baby as well, I suppose this is part of ones upbringing, all kids have their religion essentialy chosen for them at birth. Once a child ages, they can decide for themselves through their own exploration of theology and G-d. The signs for me really were perhaps decided by G-d. I was born in a Jewish hospital for instance. Whether my mother.who was young.when she had me made this decision consciously or because our family doctor.was Jewish is difficult to know. So even before I had life (I spent a couple of months in an incubator), I was being brought to life by G-ds Chosen People. The amazing chance of it all isn't lost on me as I never knew so many details/coincidences that is encouraging me to "go back home". I could not have known these.relwtions until I made the personal decision to pursue an interest in Judaism. My challenge now is to eventually find a synagogue and a Rabbi. I don't live in such an area but I hope to eventually. The truth is that G-d and his commands are very serious to maintain but also very enjoyable and natural for me. I'm not sure anyone really chooses their faith ultimately, it just ferments internally until it becomes a reality one day.

I understand what you are saying. I believe most people do end up following their parents into their church much like children when they are on their own choose car insurance. They go to their parents agents to begin with. However, there comes a point that the umbilical chord is cut and the premiums are too high that they begin searching for their own needs and wants. Same with some with religion and which church to be a member of.

All three of my children and two of my grandchildren all were asked the question by the missionaries as they were turning 8 years of age, "Do you choose to be baptized at this time?" It's made clear that it has to be their decision. Of the 5, 4 pondered the commitment after it was explained to them and chose to be baptized. Only one instantly knew and didn't have to ponder. As a baby, you are correct that you would have no control of the decisions to be circumcised or baptized or both. That would be a decision your parents made and my parents chose to have me circumcised.

In my case, starting at 10 years of age, the influence of the Holy Ghost would occasionally come upon me when someone was preaching Christ. I didn't let my parents know this growing up. But, at 19, I had a very strong religious experience that leaves no doubt that I know Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah. Something I cannot deny. It took be 5 more years before I realized that the LDS Church is the Lord's church that has the authority to administer all the saving ordinance for salvation and exaltation. That was 48 years ago. Now my brother, he has kept the Jewish faith. An interesting note about me and my family and I don't know if this has anything to do with my conversion. I think it does:

• When I was born, my mother says she held me and looked into my eyes and said, "he will not marry a Jewish woman. She never told me this and actually told my wife several years after we were married. She is LDS.
• I have blue eyes while my parents and brother have brown eyes.
• I am O+ blood type while my parents and brother are A+ blood type.
• I have brown hair and my mom and brother have black hair. By dad was a redhead.
• I have no doubt that my parents and brother are descendants of the tribe of Judah (Jews). When I received my Patriarchal Blessing by one of our Patriarchs, I was placed into the tribe of Joseph. And, I believe this to be true. The Bible is the stick of Judah and The Book of Mormon is the stick of Joseph. Ezekiel chapter 37. Each has their mission in the House of Israel.

 

[Zebra]

My study has its presentational roots from Orthodox Rabbis. I am curious if there is any value in hearing from any Rabbis from the Reform movement, which is the largest growing sect of Judaism in North America apparently? Rabbi Breitowitz for my studying, outside of books, has been a treasure as he is from America (once had a promising career in law but I believe he now resides in Israel) and he is very well read on the Torah and Judaism theology. So well educated in fact, that he takes rapid fire questions from students in what I presume is his Yeshiva while being so educated that he will often throw in varying opinions, "some (insert Jewish community or person) believe _______", on such and such a subject. His deliver is also very relaxed and humble. That said, from the OP subject, are there any Reform Rabbi one could honestly learn from, or would it be a poor representation to be exposed to.and it's best to learn from the Orthodox? Even any prominent Conservatives worthwhile.learning from or would they just ruin my learning? Thank you for your time.

why should it hurt?
i dont think so

 

[rosends]

My study has its presentational roots from Orthodox Rabbis. I am curious if there is any value in hearing from any Rabbis from the Reform movement, which is the largest growing sect of Judaism in North America apparently? Rabbi Breitowitz for my studying, outside of books, has been a treasure as he is from America (once had a promising career in law but I believe he now resides in Israel) and he is very well read on the Torah and Judaism theology. So well educated in fact, that he takes rapid fire questions from students in what I presume is his Yeshiva while being so educated that he will often throw in varying opinions, "some (insert Jewish community or person) believe _______", on such and such a subject. His deliver is also very relaxed and humble. That said, from the OP subject, are there any Reform Rabbi one could honestly learn from, or would it be a poor representation to be exposed to.and it's best to learn from the Orthodox? Even any prominent Conservatives worthwhile.learning from or would they just ruin my learning? Thank you for your time.

It depends on what you are looking to learn. The different denominations have different understandings of and approaches to essential pillars of faith.

 

[Cougarbear]

My study has its presentational roots from Orthodox Rabbis. I am curious if there is any value in hearing from any Rabbis from the Reform movement, which is the largest growing sect of Judaism in North America apparently? Rabbi Breitowitz for my studying, outside of books, has been a treasure as he is from America (once had a promising career in law but I believe he now resides in Israel) and he is very well read on the Torah and Judaism theology. So well educated in fact, that he takes rapid fire questions from students in what I presume is his Yeshiva while being so educated that he will often throw in varying opinions, "some (insert Jewish community or person) believe _______", on such and such a subject. His deliver is also very relaxed and humble. That said, from the OP subject, are there any Reform Rabbi one could honestly learn from, or would it be a poor representation to be exposed to.and it's best to learn from the Orthodox? Even any prominent Conservatives worthwhile.learning from or would they just ruin my learning? Thank you for your time.

Is learning the only important part of Judaism? What if you are a slow learner of Orthodoxy? Or a woman? Are you less of a child of God? Does God love you less?

 

[shockedcanadian]

Is learning the only important part of Judaism? What if you are a slow learner of Orthodoxy? Or a woman? Are you less of a child of God? Does God love you less?

Just follow the 613 Commands and do the best you can to honour important historical events and rituals. You don't need to adhere to all Commands, rituals and events if you are not Jewish, but you may be Jewish by the hand of G-d and not know it and convert one day.

The very least are the 7 laws of Noah. Hence the term "Noahide" which has a growing international following.

 

[rosends]

Is learning the only important part of Judaism? What if you are a slow learner of Orthodoxy? Or a woman? Are you less of a child of God? Does God love you less?

I'm not sure I understand these questions and their basis.

 

[Cougarbear]

Just follow the 613 Commands and do the best you can to honour important historical events and rituals. You don't need to adhere to all Commands, rituals and events if you are not Jewish, but you may be Jewish by the hand of G-d and not know it and convert one day.

The very least are the 7 laws of Noah. Hence the term "Noahide" which has a growing international following.

And, if I honor the rituals and events, keep the 613 commandments, what then? What's my reward?
By the way, I was born Jewish and stayed that way for 24 years. Then, I converted to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Now, I keep the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage and all the commandments that are entailed with this. Perhaps one day, you may see that there are many unanswered questions in the Old Testament that Judaism just does not answer. Instead, they mostly spin their answers and hope no one sees it. The big question, of course, is what comes after death? If it's the same for the sinless and the sinners, why worry about the commandments.

 

[Cougarbear]

I'm not sure I understand these questions and their basis.

I'm asking a question from what he stated about Judaism and keep on learning even if questions cannot be answered. And, Orthodoxy from olden times didn't allow much for women to be involved.

 

[shockedcanadian]

And, if I honor the rituals and events, keep the 613 commandments, what then? What's my reward?
By the way, I was born Jewish and stayed that way for 24 years. Then, I converted to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Now, I keep the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage and all the commandments that are entailed with this. Perhaps one day, you may see that there are many unanswered questions in the Old Testament that Judaism just does not answer. Instead, they mostly spin their answers and hope no one sees it. The big question, of course, is what comes after death? If it's the same for the sinless and the sinners, why worry about the commandments.

And, if I honor the rituals and events, keep the 613 commandments, what then? What's my reward?
By the way, I was born Jewish and stayed that way for 24 years. Then, I converted to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Now, I keep the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage and all the commandments that are entailed with this. Perhaps one day, you may see that there are many unanswered questions in the Old Testament that Judaism just does not answer. Instead, they mostly spin their answers and hope no one sees it. The big question, of course, is what comes after death? If it's the same for the sinless and the sinners, why worry about the commandments.

Who told you that Judaism believes there aren't spiritual consequences for ones evil deeds conducted in this life? There are different opinions regarding heaven and hell within Judaism followers, but most.acknowedge punishment and reward. The issue is to NOT focus on performing an act to be rewarded for it, nor to.act in order to avoid negative consequences per se in the next life. It is about acting right because G-d commands us to. If we do sin, we must obtain forgiveness in order to cleanse ourselves. This means often from ghat whom we did wrong or a direct prayer and plead to G-d if we violate his laws. The concept of what the vision of the afterlife may different but actions are still critically judged. I feel bad for the fact I currently can't donate to charity as I often did so I have to always do my best to engage in charity by good deeds outside of monetary donation. Dont be fooled though, light and darkness exist within us. Our decisions will be judged and I try and maintain a perpetual and healthy fear of G-d being displeased by my actions.

 

[rosends]

And, Orthodoxy from olden times didn't allow much for women to be involved.

Women were very involved. I'm not sure what you are talking about.

 

[Cougarbear]

Who told you that Judaism believes there aren't spiritual consequences for ones evil deeds conducted in this life? There are different opinions regarding heaven and hell within Judaism followers, but most.acknowedge punishment and reward. The issue is to NOT focus on performing an act to be rewarded for it, nor to.act in order to avoid negative consequences per se in the next life. It is about acting right because G-d commands us to. If we do sin, we must obtain forgiveness in order to cleanse ourselves. This means often from ghat whom we did wrong or a direct prayer and plead to G-d if we violate his laws. The concept of what the vision of the afterlife may different but actions are still critically judged. I feel bad for the fact I currently can't donate to charity as I often did so I have to always do my best to engage in charity by good deeds outside of monetary donation. Dont be fooled though, light and darkness exist within us. Our decisions will be judged and I try and maintain a perpetual and healthy fear of G-d being displeased by my actions.

So, what is it that you fear? See, I believe "fear" means to focus more closely and clearly on keeping the commandments and not looking for your treasures in the afterlife. But, you have to first believe that this life is not the end and what we do in this life matters. The mainstream Christian believes that we are saved through grace only. And, that this faith without works doesn't matter. I totally disagree. Grace opens the door for all to enter into heaven after this life. But, what will heaven look like if we accept the atonement? So, what does it look like to you to make you want to focus on God and keeping what you to believe are His current commandments?

 

[Cougarbear]

Women were very involved. I'm not sure what you are talking about.

Where were they in the Temple? Off to the side if allowed in the temple at certain time periods. Yes, women were involved as they ruled the homes and raised the children while the men worked. Oh, there were a few women mentioned in the OT as well as the NT. But, "involved?" Meh.

 

[rosends]

Where were they in the Temple?

there was a section for women so they were there to offer sacrifices. Just like almost all the men.

Off to the side if allowed in the temple at certain time periods.

can you point to a time when a woman was not allowed in the temple?

Yes, women were involved as they ruled the homes and raised the children while the men worked. Oh, there were a few women mentioned in the OT as well as the NT. But, "involved?" Meh.

so your personal meh gets to become a condemnation of the entire religion. Nope.

 

[Cougarbear]

there was a section for women so they were there to offer sacrifices. Just like almost all the men.

can you point to a time when a woman was not allowed in the temple?

so your personal meh gets to become a condemnation of the entire religion. Nope.

Nope. I'm just honestly answering the question.

 

[rosends]

Nope. I'm just honestly answering the question.

what question exactly do you think you are answering?