Would Putin use nuclear weapons??!

[SavannahMann]

The West actually backed off in Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Afghanistan and many other places. And yes, making some mutually acceptable agreements with Russia about the future of Ukraine or Europe much less "unthinkable" than a suicidal nuclear attack against Russia.

Ok, I’ve asked the question before. Nobody has answered. Where do you draw the line?

In 1939, France and England drew the line at Poland. They warned Hitler that they would not tolerate an invasion of Poland. But Hitler did not believe them. Why? They hadn’t stood up to him for Czechoslovakia, Austria, the Rhineland, or any other line that had previously existed.

So where do we draw the line, and what would make Putin believe we actually meant it?

 

[José]

Originally posted by SavannahMann
Ok, I’ve asked the question before. Nobody has answered. Where do you draw the line?

In 1939, France and England drew the line at Poland. They warned Hitler that they would not tolerate an invasion of Poland. But Hitler did not believe them. Why? They hadn’t stood up to him for Czechoslovakia, Austria, the Rhineland, or any other line that had previously existed.

So where do we draw the line, and what would make Putin believe we actually meant it?

You managed to turn reality completely upside down.

Russia's hypothetical advance toward Poland, Germany only exists inside your head while the advance of a hostile military alliance toward Russia's borders is a fact.

 

[Colin norris]

It seems yes !!

As the Red Ant army continues to fight like its WW1..it seems P is getting more and more deranged and sick

What if P even attacks a NATO nation

I am willing to have a limited nuclear exchange only if we lose DC, Philly , Miami , Sea,SF and Chi and Atl and LA

I know

What a pathetic post.
Join the Russians you traitor.

 

[SavannahMann]

You managed to turn reality completely upside down.

Russia's hypothetical advance toward Poland, Germany only exists inside your head while the advance of a hostile military alliance toward Russia's borders is a fact.

Preposterous. I’m using that word because I can’t think of a stronger one to express my disdain of this idiotic ideal.

First, in 2020, the plan to withdraw nearly a third of our troops from Germany was put forth, while this was stopped before all ten thousand were removed, many were. NATO was weaker than it has been in decades. So this hostile military alliance, was eroding into a coffee clutch.

Member nations were putting less and less of their national budgets into defense. Including the US. Thus proving that NATO was weakening itself.

That is changing. In fact, that has changed. Biden who would never have proposed this before the invasion by the madman Putin, just asked for $10 Billion. That’s a lot of money, and a lot of firepower being proposed for Ukraine.

Money and weapons being sent to an area it wouldn’t have gone to if Putin had stayed in his borders.

As far as Nations wanting to join NATO and the EU. Let’s examine why that is. First, everyone but Putin seems to recognize that free markets are superior to controlled economies. Free Markets saw the rise of Germany in the manufacturing sector. Today, German Cars are still considered superior, as one example.

The free market saw the destruction of the Soviet Union, and those who saw it, wanted it for themselves. They wanted greater freedom. Russia could have, should have asked to join NATO themselves. They wanted in to the EU. Until Putin.

Putin wanted Soviet style Sphere of Influences, without the name Soviet Union.

Make no mistake. This is about power. This is about stomping freedom. This is about controlling the traditional “Slavic” areas.

NATO was never the aggressor. It would have become nothing more than a social club in another twenty years. Now, it’s back. And it’s going to become stronger than it was during the days of Reagan. Because Putin has shown the world that NATO still has a function. And the world knows it is still needed.

 

[José]

Don't get me wrong, Savannah.

The more or less remote possibility of Ukraine joining Nato does not constitute a legitimate, solid casus belli, in my view.

The sovereignty and territorial integrity of neighboring countries is serious stuff...

You don't attack your neighbors because someday in the future they might join a military alliance that sees you as its main enemy.

Even if Ukraine was on the verge of joining Nato I don't think the military invasion and occupation of the country would be warranted.

A heavy bombing campaign a few weeks or months before Ukraine were formally accepted into Nato would be in order.

 

[ESay]

Ok, I’ve asked the question before. Nobody has answered. Where do you draw the line?

In 1939, France and England drew the line at Poland. They warned Hitler that they would not tolerate an invasion of Poland. But Hitler did not believe them. Why? They hadn’t stood up to him for Czechoslovakia, Austria, the Rhineland, or any other line that had previously existed.

So where do we draw the line, and what would make Putin believe we actually meant it?

That is the very question no 'isolationist' here would want to answer. Now, everyone is focused on Ukraine and some people say why should the US fight for such a shithole. A reasonable question.

But no one of them wants to say that Ukraine was only one point of Russia's ultimatum. In other parts, Russia virtually demanded that the US get out of half of Europe.

It seems that these people are ready to withdraw to DC or even to their respective counties.

 

[José]

Don't be naive, Esay.

This is a basic negotiation tactic used by salesmen since the dawn of mankind.

You start asking too much and after an awful lot of bargain you accept far less. You still get a good profit and your client thinks he saved a lot of money.

If you ask native americans what their initial demands in a negotiation process are they will probably say:

We want whites, blacks, hispanics and asians to disapear from the american continent.

This doesn't mean they won't settle for a good reservation.

 

[Batcat]

It seems yes !!

As the Red Ant army continues to fight like its WW1..it seems P is getting more and more deranged and sick

What if P even attacks a NATO nation

I am willing to have a limited nuclear exchange only if we lose DC, Philly , Miami , Sea,SF and Chi and Atl and LA

I know

If Putin is sane — no.

The question should be… is Putin sane?

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[ESay]

Don't be naive, Esay.

This is a basic negotiation tactic used by salesmen since the dawn of mankind.

You start asking too much and after an awful lot of bargain you accept far less. You still get a good profit and your client thinks he saved a lot of money.

If you ask native americans what their initial demands in a negotiation process are they will probably say:

We want whites, blacks, hispanics and asians to disapear from the american continent.

This doesn't mean they won't settle for a good reservation.

Well, maybe you are right. But that is strange, anyway. Yes, Ukraine seems to be a done deal. But to get crippling sanctions and maybe expanded NATO military infrastructure on the Eastern flanc only for putting Ukraine under control? I don't know. It is a strange win.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

 

[rightwinger]

So where do we draw the line, and what would make Putin believe we actually meant it?

NATO

 

[Silver Cat]

Preposterous. I’m using that word because I can’t think of a stronger one to express my disdain of this idiotic ideal.

First, in 2020, the plan to withdraw nearly a third of our troops from Germany was put forth, while this was stopped before all ten thousand were removed, many were. NATO was weaker than it has been in decades. So this hostile military alliance, was eroding into a coffee clutch.

Member nations were putting less and less of their national budgets into defense. Including the US. Thus proving that NATO was weakening itself.

That is changing. In fact, that has changed. Biden who would never have proposed this before the invasion by the madman Putin, just asked for $10 Billion. That’s a lot of money, and a lot of firepower being proposed for Ukraine.

Money and weapons being sent to an area it wouldn’t have gone to if Putin had stayed in his borders.

As far as Nations wanting to join NATO and the EU. Let’s examine why that is. First, everyone but Putin seems to recognize that free markets are superior to controlled economies. Free Markets saw the rise of Germany in the manufacturing sector. Today, German Cars are still considered superior, as one example.

The free market saw the destruction of the Soviet Union, and those who saw it, wanted it for themselves. They wanted greater freedom. Russia could have, should have asked to join NATO themselves. They wanted in to the EU. Until Putin.

Putin wanted Soviet style Sphere of Influences, without the name Soviet Union.

Make no mistake. This is about power. This is about stomping freedom. This is about controlling the traditional “Slavic” areas.

NATO was never the aggressor. It would have become nothing more than a social club in another twenty years. Now, it’s back. And it’s going to become stronger than it was during the days of Reagan. Because Putin has shown the world that NATO still has a function. And the world knows it is still needed.

I think, that we should draw those lines in the middle of Atlantic and Pacific oceans.
But it doesn't mean, that we should give the Russians everything they want. We should leave Europe and Asia, but give them only scorched land. Everything and everyone useful should be evacuated into the USA.