Working class favor GOP by 58%

[JakeStarkey]

Not one of you have even scratched a case for making far less regulation or an economic libertarian economy feasible or desirable.

That we can't "scratch a case" for a far left poseur nutbar like you pleases me to no end.

It's not like you have any criteria for acceptance of any originalist principles anyways.

Odd has never established any criteria of originalist principles. If he did, he would have to admit that he believed in racism, sexism, slavery, and monopoly.

You are fun to toy with, odd.

 

[georgephillip]

We don't have a 'working', 'middle' or any other 'class'. We were founded as a free people where anyone can succeed. There should be no 'class' divides.... these are labels, created by politicians, to keep people focused on each other rather than on the politicians.

Then why did our "founders" permit only white, male property owners to vote?

'Think it might have had anything to do with chattel slavery?

Today, our politicians enhance class distinctions through tax policies and giving away US middle-class jobs to China and India.

And BOTH parties are responsible.

"Choosing" between Republican OR Democrat meets Einstein's definition of insanity.

By definition, slaves don't vote. Men only, time and culture. There were property holding free blacks that were able to vote at one time, then race came into place. Why just property holders? It was assumed they would have a stake in being informed. There's truth to that, but still the logic of expanded suffrage was the correct path.

Really didn't have to do with class. Though it did often have to do with religion in colonial America.

In the early days of this country "agrarian reform" worked as a powerful class agent:

"It should be recalled that the American republic was founded on the principle that there should be a democratic deficit. James Madison, the main framer of the Constitutional order, held that power should be in the hands of 'the wealth of the nation,' the 'more capable set of men,' who have sympathy for property owners and their rights.

"Possibly with Shay's Rebellion in mind, he was concerned that 'the equal laws of suffrage' might shift power into the hands of those who might seek agrarian reform, an intolerable attack on property rights.

"He feared that 'symptoms of a leveling spirit' had appeared sufficiently 'in certain quarters to give warning of the future danger.'

"Madison sought to construct a system of government that would protect the minority of the opulent against the majority.

'" That is why his constitutional framework did not have coequal branches: the legislature prevailed, and within the legislature, power was to be vested in the Senate, where the wealth of the nation would be dominant and protected from the general population, which was to be fragmented and marginalized in various ways.

"As historian Gordon Wood summarizes the thoughts of the founders:

"'The Constitution was intrinsically an aristocratic document designed to check the democratic tendencies of the period,' delivering power to a 'better sort' of people and excluding 'those who were not rich, well born, or prominent from exercising political power.'"

It seems like today's set of "more capable men" still live in fear of those "symptoms of a leveling spirit."

Crisis and Hope

 

[JakeStarkey]

georgephillip, the Beard economic theory of colonial economic superiority in deconstructing the creation of the Constitution failed seventy years ago, as it does now. The Constitution is an organic document that adapts and modifies with each generation's social and moral conceits. To deny that is to deny the nature of humanity. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

 

[Meister]

georgephillip, the Beard economic theory of colonial economic superiority in deconstructing the creation of the Constitution failed seventy years ago, as it does now. The Constitution is an organic document that adapts and modifies with each generation's social and moral conceits. To deny that is to deny the nature of humanity. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

Once again.......

 

[georgephillip]

georgephillip, the Beard economic theory of colonial economic superiority in deconstructing the creation of the Constitution failed seventy years ago, as it does now. The Constitution is an organic document that adapts and modifies with each generation's social and moral conceits. To deny that is to deny the nature of humanity. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

Shay's Rebellion is historical fact.

Daniel Shays was radicalized in part by watching a sick woman having her bed taken from beneath her because she was also unable to pay.

After being wounded and resigning from the Continental Army without pay, Shays went home to find himself in court for nonpayments of debt.

Indignities Madison and Washington avoided, I suspect.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Meister, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts.

 

[JakeStarkey]

georgephillip, the Beard economic theory of colonial economic superiority in deconstructing the creation of the Constitution failed seventy years ago, as it does now. The Constitution is an organic document that adapts and modifies with each generation's social and moral conceits. To deny that is to deny the nature of humanity. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

Shay's Rebellion is historical fact.

Daniel Shays was radicalized in part by watching a sick woman having her bed taken from beneath her because she was also unable to pay.

After being wounded and resigning from the Continental Army without pay, Shays went home to find himself in court for nonpayments of debt.

Indignities Madison and Washington avoided, I suspect.

Anecdotal evidence is fun to read but offers little else. Let me help you, because you clearly don't grasp the concept. Shays as the Spirit of 76 and Madison as the Spirit of 87. Do you get it now? Try arguing it that way.

 

[MaggieMae]

Yes I am sure the US having the HIGHEST cooperate tax rate in the world has NOTHING at all to do with Companies moving over seas.

Name one corporation that pays the base rate.

None of them pay it all, but that does not change the fact that the US is not the ideal place to do business.

No kidding. Ergo, outsourcing. The bottom line is that in order to maintain our high standard of living, people have to be paid decent wages and taxes on corporations are supposed to assure that US businesses are operating in the safest and most manageable way to assure that. I don't want to be buying goods from businesses that don't care about anything but the cheapest way to mass produce, with no watchdog overseeing the safety and health risks of the product. Would you rather buy your seafood from some Chinese mass producer or Ocean Galley Seafood in Florida?

 

[MaggieMae]

If Republicans gain control happens, it happens. We already know what their agenda is. It means it will take that much longer for America to "come back", and Republicans will never be trusted again.

The Dems really aren't a whole lot better. They're the lesser of 2 evils but today's Republicans are not conservative. They support big government, they support wars and it forces them to adopt a fiscal policy that's unsustainable.

They think the current system is capitalism and guess what...it's not, it's corporatism/fascism. The "corporations" line the pockets of members of congress to get their way. What kind of capitalism is that? Sure doesn't sound like it to me.

The way to solve the problem is to get the government to stop listening to these corporations and put regulations on what the government can do. In other words, make the government smaller and let the market dictate itself. Corporations should not be able to negotiate with congress and that is something our founding fathers warned us of but we completely ignored it.

Corporations can now act as individuals, according to the Supreme Court, remember? And individuals all have the right to petition the government (free speech). Corporations do this with huge lobbying contingents. I don't think the framers had this in mind, however, when the Bill of Rights was added to the Constitution.

 

[MaggieMae]

Close the borders to trade?

No, just disallow American corporations to outsource labor and create false offshore headquarters for the purpose of dodging taxes. If a Chinese company makes something in China and sells to an American buyer, that's "Trade." When an American company distributes and sells it's product in America, does it's manufacturing in China, and has a "Corporate Headquarters" in the Caymen Islands, yet all executives and majority shareholders live Stateside - That's tax evasion (albeit, perfectly legal tax evasion for the time being).

Toyota, Honda, Kia, and soon Mercedes Benz, and others, do or will manufacture in the US and will not pay certain taxes to their "home" countries as a result.

They employ many Americans.

You want that to stop, as well?

It probably is more profitable for popular foreign car manufacturers to build some here, rather than shipping from across the pond. But how many of the less popular foreign cars have manufacturing plants in the US?

 

[Revere]

If Republicans gain control happens, it happens. We already know what their agenda is. It means it will take that much longer for America to "come back", and Republicans will never be trusted again.

The Dems really aren't a whole lot better. They're the lesser of 2 evils but today's Republicans are not conservative. They support big government, they support wars and it forces them to adopt a fiscal policy that's unsustainable.

They think the current system is capitalism and guess what...it's not, it's corporatism/fascism. The "corporations" line the pockets of members of congress to get their way. What kind of capitalism is that? Sure doesn't sound like it to me.

The way to solve the problem is to get the government to stop listening to these corporations and put regulations on what the government can do. In other words, make the government smaller and let the market dictate itself. Corporations should not be able to negotiate with congress and that is something our founding fathers warned us of but we completely ignored it.

Corporations can now act as individuals, according to the Supreme Court, remember? And individuals all have the right to petition the government (free speech). Corporations do this with huge lobbying contingents. I don't think the framers had this in mind, however, when the Bill of Rights was added to the Constitution.

Corporations have limits on political spending for a particular candidate.

Individuals affiliated with corporations who pool their money have the right to independent expenditures on issues or candidates.

Free speech is a *****.

 

[MaggieMae]

Close the borders to trade?

No, just disallow American corporations to outsource labor and create false offshore headquarters for the purpose of dodging taxes. If a Chinese company makes something in China and sells to an American buyer, that's "Trade." When an American company distributes and sells it's product in America, does it's manufacturing in China, and has a "Corporate Headquarters" in the Caymen Islands, yet all executives and majority shareholders live Stateside - That's tax evasion (albeit, perfectly legal tax evasion for the time being).

"Disallow"?

You wouldn't have this problem if we didn't make it economic suicide for companies to remain in the us. Leave the companies alone and get rid of the unions. Watch our economy soar.

Sure, everyone would be paid less and our standard of living would be lowered. Historically, unions have demanded wages that management had to match if they wanted to keep a union out. But both of those situations have contributed to the high standard of living we still enjoy, in spite of the economic downturn.

 

[Revere]

No, just disallow American corporations to outsource labor and create false offshore headquarters for the purpose of dodging taxes. If a Chinese company makes something in China and sells to an American buyer, that's "Trade." When an American company distributes and sells it's product in America, does it's manufacturing in China, and has a "Corporate Headquarters" in the Caymen Islands, yet all executives and majority shareholders live Stateside - That's tax evasion (albeit, perfectly legal tax evasion for the time being).

"Disallow"?

You wouldn't have this problem if we didn't make it economic suicide for companies to remain in the us. Leave the companies alone and get rid of the unions. Watch our economy soar.

Sure, everyone would be paid less and our standard of living would be lowered. Historically, unions have demanded wages that management had to match if they wanted to keep a union out. But both of those situations have contributed to the high standard of living we still enjoy, in spite of the economic downturn.

Union membership in the private sector is plummeting in Obama faster than ever. It is surpassed by union membership in government. Why should private industry be forced to have to compete with that?

 

[hipeter924]

The Dems really aren't a whole lot better. They're the lesser of 2 evils but today's Republicans are not conservative. They support big government, they support wars and it forces them to adopt a fiscal policy that's unsustainable.

They think the current system is capitalism and guess what...it's not, it's corporatism/fascism. The "corporations" line the pockets of members of congress to get their way. What kind of capitalism is that? Sure doesn't sound like it to me.

The way to solve the problem is to get the government to stop listening to these corporations and put regulations on what the government can do. In other words, make the government smaller and let the market dictate itself. Corporations should not be able to negotiate with congress and that is something our founding fathers warned us of but we completely ignored it.

Corporations can now act as individuals, according to the Supreme Court, remember? And individuals all have the right to petition the government (free speech). Corporations do this with huge lobbying contingents. I don't think the framers had this in mind, however, when the Bill of Rights was added to the Constitution.

Corporations have limits on political spending for a particular candidate.

Individuals affiliated with corporations who pool their money have the right to independent expenditures on issues or candidates.

Free speech is a *****.

So are deficit's. I am puzzled to how Democrats even think they can keep running up debt without destroying their own political future, because once the government goes bankrupt their careers (along with the Democratic Party) are over forever.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Corporations use outsourcing to destroy the American middle class, transferring its wealth to the shareholders.

 

[hipeter924]

Corporations use outsourcing to destroy the American middle class, transferring its wealth to the shareholders.

Who just happen to be average American's...good one there, what next? Condemn corporations for existing at all, while your Obama sucks corporate cash up his ass during his election campaign.

 

[MaggieMae]

We don't have a 'working', 'middle' or any other 'class'. We were founded as a free people where anyone can succeed. There should be no 'class' divides.... these are labels, created by politicians, to keep people focused on each other rather than on the politicians.

Then why did our "founders" permit only white, male property owners to vote?

'Think it might have had anything to do with chattel slavery?

Today, our politicians enhance class distinctions through tax policies and giving away US middle-class jobs to China and India.

And BOTH parties are responsible.

"Choosing" between Republican OR Democrat meets Einstein's definition of insanity.

The EPA is responsible for most jobs leaving the US for third world nations. Which party wants to hand the EPA unlimited power?

I notice your "signature" which I couldn't bring up, but I can use my imagination what it's about. Did you know that one ton of cardboard boxes is the equivalent of 17 trees?

 

[Revere]

Corporations use outsourcing to destroy the American middle class, transferring its wealth to the shareholders.

Who just happen to be average American's...good one there, what next? Condemn corporations for existing at all.

Obama's only message is to hate everything with money and power except his regime.

 

[hipeter924]

Corporations use outsourcing to destroy the American middle class, transferring its wealth to the shareholders.

Who just happen to be average American's...good one there, what next? Condemn corporations for existing at all.

Obama's only message is to hate everything with money and power except his regime.

True, he is part of the establishment. Never forget that.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Corporations use outsourcing to destroy the American middle class, transferring its wealth to the shareholders.

Who just happen to be average American's...good one there, what next? Condemn corporations for existing at all, while your Obama sucks corporate cash up his ass during his election campaign.

The stockholders are not just "average Americans". You have not contested the point, hipeter924, so you concede that corporations are destroying the middle class and appropriating its wealth.