Working class favor GOP by 58%

[Cuyo]

Close the borders to trade?

No, just disallow American corporations to outsource labor and create false offshore headquarters for the purpose of dodging taxes. If a Chinese company makes something in China and sells to an American buyer, that's "Trade." When an American company distributes and sells it's product in America, does it's manufacturing in China, and has a "Corporate Headquarters" in the Caymen Islands, yet all executives and majority shareholders live Stateside - That's tax evasion (albeit, perfectly legal tax evasion for the time being).

Toyota, Honda, Kia, and soon Mercedes Benz, and others, do or will manufacture in the US and will not pay certain taxes to their "home" countries as a result.

They employ many Americans.

You want that to stop, as well?

If it stopped across the board, we win. Our trade deficit is about $800 Billion per year. But no, again you're talking about something different. If they owe taxes to Japan, Germany, et al, but employ Americans, then the payroll and American income taxes are written off of their books in their respective country, yes. But if their HQ is in the Sierra Leone or some shit like that, and they're using such HQ as a tax shelter like so many American companies, that's Germany's or Japan's problem. As a matter of an educated guess, I'm guessing EU countries already don't allow such shenanigans to take place.

 

[AllieBaba]

Poll echoes 1994 swing toward GOP - Spokesman.com - Oct. 7, 2010

What exactly do they expect will happen in the immediate future which will benefit their "working class" lives?

I'm geniunely puzzled.

they expect that small businesses and large businesses will be supported, industry will pick up, and they'll be able to work again.

They're not stupid, after all.

 

[AllieBaba]

It damn sure would be if you were required to keep your headquarters here in order to make your money here. That's the point we're trying to make. It's unsustainable to allow companies to make money in America (rich by world standards) yet maintain operations elsewhere in order to dodge taxes.

Close the borders to trade?

No, just disallow American corporations to outsource labor and create false offshore headquarters for the purpose of dodging taxes. If a Chinese company makes something in China and sells to an American buyer, that's "Trade." When an American company distributes and sells it's product in America, does it's manufacturing in China, and has a "Corporate Headquarters" in the Caymen Islands, yet all executives and majority shareholders live Stateside - That's tax evasion (albeit, perfectly legal tax evasion for the time being).

"Disallow"?

You wouldn't have this problem if we didn't make it economic suicide for companies to remain in the us. Leave the companies alone and get rid of the unions. Watch our economy soar.

 

[Revere]

No, just disallow American corporations to outsource labor and create false offshore headquarters for the purpose of dodging taxes. If a Chinese company makes something in China and sells to an American buyer, that's "Trade." When an American company distributes and sells it's product in America, does it's manufacturing in China, and has a "Corporate Headquarters" in the Caymen Islands, yet all executives and majority shareholders live Stateside - That's tax evasion (albeit, perfectly legal tax evasion for the time being).

Toyota, Honda, Kia, and soon Mercedes Benz, and others, do or will manufacture in the US and will not pay certain taxes to their "home" countries as a result.

They employ many Americans.

You want that to stop, as well?

If it stopped across the board, we win. Our trade deficit is about $800 Billion per year. But no, again you're talking about something different. If they owe taxes to Japan, Germany, et al, but employ Americans, then the payroll and American income taxes are written off of their books in their respective country, yes. But if their HQ is in the Sierra Leone or some shit like that, and they're using such HQ as a tax shelter like so many American companies, that's Germany's or Japan's problem. As a matter of an educated guess, I'm guessing EU countries already don't allow such shenanigans to take place.

That's fucknuttery.

The economies of the world are inextricably linked. You can't unting that bell.

 

[georgephillip]

We don't have a 'working', 'middle' or any other 'class'. We were founded as a free people where anyone can succeed. There should be no 'class' divides.... these are labels, created by politicians, to keep people focused on each other rather than on the politicians.

Then why did our "founders" permit only white, male property owners to vote?

'Think it might have had anything to do with chattel slavery?

Today, our politicians enhance class distinctions through tax policies and giving away US middle-class jobs to China and India.

And BOTH parties are responsible.

"Choosing" between Republican OR Democrat meets Einstein's definition of insanity.

 

[Revere]

We don't have a 'working', 'middle' or any other 'class'. We were founded as a free people where anyone can succeed. There should be no 'class' divides.... these are labels, created by politicians, to keep people focused on each other rather than on the politicians.

Then why did our "founders" permit only white, male property owners to vote?

'Think it might have had anything to do with chattel slavery?

Today, our politicians enhance class distinctions through tax policies and giving away US middle-class jobs to China and India.

And BOTH parties are responsible.

"Choosing" between Republican OR Democrat meets Einstein's definition of insanity.

The EPA is responsible for most jobs leaving the US for third world nations. Which party wants to hand the EPA unlimited power?

 

[Cuyo]

Toyota, Honda, Kia, and soon Mercedes Benz, and others, do or will manufacture in the US and will not pay certain taxes to their "home" countries as a result.

They employ many Americans.

You want that to stop, as well?

If it stopped across the board, we win. Our trade deficit is about $800 Billion per year. But no, again you're talking about something different. If they owe taxes to Japan, Germany, et al, but employ Americans, then the payroll and American income taxes are written off of their books in their respective country, yes. But if their HQ is in the Sierra Leone or some shit like that, and they're using such HQ as a tax shelter like so many American companies, that's Germany's or Japan's problem. As a matter of an educated guess, I'm guessing EU countries already don't allow such shenanigans to take place.

That's fucknuttery.

The economies of the world are inextricably linked. You can't unting that bell.

It certainly wouldn't be easy, nor would it benefit the masses of humanity. But once again, that's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about de facto American companies claiming to be something else for the sole purpose of evading taxes. The true HQ remains here, the executives remain here, but a tax shelter State abroad serves as the monkey and phone booth they call their "Main office."

Examples, Halliburton (UAE), Ingersoll-Rand (Bermuda), Seagate (Caymen Islands), Tyco (Bermuda).

I'm also talking about large companies that remain in America, sell their goods in America, make their profits in America, but do all manufacturing overseas. This isn't "Trade," it's simply outsourcing of labor. It benefits the owners/shareholders of the company; It benefits the host country doing the labor; But it's devastating to the average American consumer who can't find a job because he's been priced out of the market.

Examples, Practically Everyone (Asia, South America, Western Europe).

It can't keep up forever; Mathematics don't allow for it. Eventually there are no consumers to sustain it. It's been held afloat for some time by credit markets, but well, we all know how that ended.

 

[Cuyo]

We don't have a 'working', 'middle' or any other 'class'. We were founded as a free people where anyone can succeed. There should be no 'class' divides.... these are labels, created by politicians, to keep people focused on each other rather than on the politicians.

Then why did our "founders" permit only white, male property owners to vote?

'Think it might have had anything to do with chattel slavery?

Today, our politicians enhance class distinctions through tax policies and giving away US middle-class jobs to China and India.

And BOTH parties are responsible.

"Choosing" between Republican OR Democrat meets Einstein's definition of insanity.

The EPA is responsible for most jobs leaving the US for third world nations. Which party wants to hand the EPA unlimited power?

See, that's the lie; A lie among many. Anyone with even a rudimentary understanding could tell you that. What I don't understand is, why are you so anxious to believe it?

 

[Revere]

Then why did our "founders" permit only white, male property owners to vote?

'Think it might have had anything to do with chattel slavery?

Today, our politicians enhance class distinctions through tax policies and giving away US middle-class jobs to China and India.

And BOTH parties are responsible.

"Choosing" between Republican OR Democrat meets Einstein's definition of insanity.

The EPA is responsible for most jobs leaving the US for third world nations. Which party wants to hand the EPA unlimited power?

See, that's the lie; A lie among many. Anyone with even a rudimentary understanding could tell you that. What I don't understand is, why are you so anxious to believe it?

Which statement? That the EPA continues to make it prohibitve for America to reinvigorate its manufacturing base, or that Democrats want to give the EPA unlimited power?

Where are hybrid batteries made? Solar panels?

 

[Annie]

We don't have a 'working', 'middle' or any other 'class'. We were founded as a free people where anyone can succeed. There should be no 'class' divides.... these are labels, created by politicians, to keep people focused on each other rather than on the politicians.

I don't think that a sense of 'classness' is just a political division. My parents income was about 5 times the national average for the first 15 years, then jumped to about 8 times until they retired. However, they had bought their first home from my dad's older brother for about 1/2 it's worth in 1952. So, we lived in a very exclusive Chicago suburb, while definitely still middle class.

Oh, actually felt 'poor' at times, we didn't do vacations, my parents had bought a summer home and that was it. My mom was extremely frugal, if she was going to spend money on 'fun,' why not have it in property? During the 1960's those with a college degree in my suburb was at 85%. Even post-grad was over 25%. Why? Many professors at both the suburban university and from Loyola Medical Center doctors lived there. There was also a hospital in the suburb, the doctors from there too live in town.

My parents were both raised on Chicago's West Side, though my dad's family moved to the suburb while he was in high school. This would have been in the 30's. Seems he'd get out of school, walk to the train, head back to the city to be with his friends. No one thought that weird.

So, one can have more than necessary, live in an area known for affluence, yet still feel very different and like you don't belong. I was lucky though, had very good friends and my parents were sticklers for manners. I realized by my college years, that I did fit in, probably always did.

I know there are many more sociological studies on poor kids, that have more than their surrounding peers. It may be both parents or a parent that emphasizes studies and individuality. These are the kids that somehow succeed beyond the expectations and can break out as adults.

 

[Cuyo]

The EPA is responsible for most jobs leaving the US for third world nations. Which party wants to hand the EPA unlimited power?

See, that's the lie; A lie among many. Anyone with even a rudimentary understanding could tell you that. What I don't understand is, why are you so anxious to believe it?

Which statement? That the EPA continues to make it prohibitve for America to reinvigorate its manufacturing base, or that Democrats want to give the EPA unlimited power?

Where are hybrid batteries made? Solar panels?

Just the word "Most" replaced with "Some" would make it technically true. But it's so far from the root of our problem, that you can't even see the real problem when you're standing at the EPA issue.

But the criticism stems from a belief that the EPA does not have a legitimate cause. If you don't believe there's any concern for conservation or pollution control, then you'd be right to criticize the EPA. I feel the potential consequence of ignoring these problems warrants such an agency, along with the (IMO, the slight) economic discomfort that comes with it.

 

[Annie]

We don't have a 'working', 'middle' or any other 'class'. We were founded as a free people where anyone can succeed. There should be no 'class' divides.... these are labels, created by politicians, to keep people focused on each other rather than on the politicians.

Then why did our "founders" permit only white, male property owners to vote?

'Think it might have had anything to do with chattel slavery?

Today, our politicians enhance class distinctions through tax policies and giving away US middle-class jobs to China and India.

And BOTH parties are responsible.

"Choosing" between Republican OR Democrat meets Einstein's definition of insanity.

By definition, slaves don't vote. Men only, time and culture. There were property holding free blacks that were able to vote at one time, then race came into place. Why just property holders? It was assumed they would have a stake in being informed. There's truth to that, but still the logic of expanded suffrage was the correct path.

Really didn't have to do with class. Though it did often have to do with religion in colonial America.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yes, the US is a nation of classes. Anybody is entitled to their own unreality like CaliGirl, but no one has to accept her delusions. Go ask Washington if Peter his man servant was his equal, was in the same class. Sheesh.

 

[Revere]

See, that's the lie; A lie among many. Anyone with even a rudimentary understanding could tell you that. What I don't understand is, why are you so anxious to believe it?

Which statement? That the EPA continues to make it prohibitve for America to reinvigorate its manufacturing base, or that Democrats want to give the EPA unlimited power?

Where are hybrid batteries made? Solar panels?

Just the word "Most" replaced with "Some" would make it technically true. But it's so far from the root of our problem, that you can't even see the real problem when you're standing at the EPA issue.

But the criticism stems from a belief that the EPA does not have a legitimate cause. If you don't believe there's any concern for conservation or pollution control, then you'd be right to criticize the EPA. I feel the potential consequence of ignoring these problems warrants such an agency, along with the (IMO, the slight) economic discomfort that comes with it.

Whatever its orginal intent, the effect of the current EPA is to crush the American industrial base and drive the cost of energy up to impose poverty.

That's not slight discomfort.

 

[Revere]

Yes, the US is a nation of classes. Anybody is entitled to their own unreality like CaliGirl, but no one has to accept her delusions. Go ask Washington if Peter his man servant was his equal, was in the same class. Sheesh.

A real class system has barriers to moving up or down. Until Barack Obama came along, that was not the case in the US.

 

[georgephillip]

We don't have a 'working', 'middle' or any other 'class'. We were founded as a free people where anyone can succeed. There should be no 'class' divides.... these are labels, created by politicians, to keep people focused on each other rather than on the politicians.

Then why did our "founders" permit only white, male property owners to vote?

'Think it might have had anything to do with chattel slavery?

Today, our politicians enhance class distinctions through tax policies and giving away US middle-class jobs to China and India.

And BOTH parties are responsible.

"Choosing" between Republican OR Democrat meets Einstein's definition of insanity.

The EPA is responsible for most jobs leaving the US for third world nations. Which party wants to hand the EPA unlimited power?

Both parties take campaign cash from capitalists who are apparently unable to produce goods in this country without poisoning their neighbors.

Blaming the EPA amounts to hanging the messenger.

Corporate greed is the prime reason middle class jobs are disappearing in the US, and both parties profit.

 

[Revere]

Then why did our "founders" permit only white, male property owners to vote?

'Think it might have had anything to do with chattel slavery?

Today, our politicians enhance class distinctions through tax policies and giving away US middle-class jobs to China and India.

And BOTH parties are responsible.

"Choosing" between Republican OR Democrat meets Einstein's definition of insanity.

The EPA is responsible for most jobs leaving the US for third world nations. Which party wants to hand the EPA unlimited power?

Both parties take campaign cash from capitalists who are apparently unable to produce goods in this country without poisoning their neighbors.

Blaming the EPA amounts to hanging the messenger.

Corporate greed is the prime reason middle class jobs are disappearing in the US, and both parties profit.

Government is greed.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Expand the concept. Greed begins with humans in all private, government, and business activities.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yes, the US is a nation of classes. Anybody is entitled to their own unreality like CaliGirl, but no one has to accept her delusions. Go ask Washington if Peter his man servant was his equal, was in the same class. Sheesh.

A real class system has barriers to moving up or down. Until Barack Obama came along, that was not the case in the US.

Slavery? Economic laws that favored men over women? Union busting? Indentured servitude?

Get it straight: unregulated capitalism and or economic libertarianism is the path of economic slavery for the population.

 

[Revere]

Yes, the US is a nation of classes. Anybody is entitled to their own unreality like CaliGirl, but no one has to accept her delusions. Go ask Washington if Peter his man servant was his equal, was in the same class. Sheesh.

A real class system has barriers to moving up or down. Until Barack Obama came along, that was not the case in the US.

Slavery? Economic laws that favored men over women? Union busting? Indentured servitude?

Get it straight: unregulated capitalism and or economic libertarianism is the path of economic slavery for the population.

Yes, those things disappaered tens of years ago or a hundred years ago.

The current class system under Obama is expanding the permanent dependency class faster than ever. Your opporuniteis to get off unemployement or food stamps is slipping away fast. It's your new reality.

Where exactly does unregulated capitalism exist?