With gun violence down, is America arming against an imagined threat?

[Saigon]

Unlike the gun industry... where, hey, just because you're mentally ill shouldn't stop you from excercising your second amendment rights!

Guns can not legally be owned by the mentally ill.

Ever heard of Virginia Tech?

 

[jon_berzerk]

Unlike the gun industry... where, hey, just because you're mentally ill shouldn't stop you from excercising your second amendment rights!

Guns can not legally be owned by the mentally ill.

Ever heard of Virginia Tech?

yes once again the state did not follow though and let him slip through the cracks

 

[Circe]

FA Q2 -

Can you link to the gun control measure that you are referring to?

I'm not sure if this question is aimed at me, but if so, I am referring to the gun control measures implemented in the UK after Dunblane in 1997.

In response to this debate, the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 and the Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997 were enacted, which effectively made private ownership of handguns illegal in the United Kingdom.

This is an interesting point to me. The same thing happened in Australia: VERY fast reaction by government to any crisis can get laws passed right then that could not be passed if time goes by. So they both moved fast, and got rid of guns. It's the only way, and I bet the NRA knows it, too.

A huge massacre (and many have tried: the Columbine kids were hoping to kill many hundreds with their large propane bombs collapsing the floors, but they didn't test them and none went off) could build the sudden support needed, but I'm not sure that is possible in this country. Too big for European-type cultures. Too many animals, too many criminals, too great distances to hope for police help. It's like trying to get rid of cars in favor of public transport: simply can't, the distances are too large.

The epidemic of crazy-killings is in its flood now and there may be a huge massacre that moves public opinion that far and fast. I expect one, and this year, actually. I hope it doesn't affect anyone here, if such a thing happens. Or any of the ones surely to come this year.

 

[Circe]

Guns can not legally be owned by the mentally ill.

Ever heard of Virginia Tech?

yes once again the state did not follow though and let him slip through the cracks

They ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL, 100%, "slip through the cracks," which I take to mean the family knows and the school or psychologists know or other professionals, but nobody does diddly-squat.

Think about all the madmen who have shot up malls and movies and schools: all of them were crazy as hoot owls and nobody stopped any of them. Doesn't happen.

Seems to me that should change. How, I don't know. Maybe the same orders to psychologists and teachers and doctors as with child abuse: you hide it, the law WILL come after you when it comes to light.

There is waaaaaaay too much collusion. Hide it, don't tell, not our business, he won't come back to therapy and pay me.

This needs to stop.

 

[Saigon]

FA Q2 -

Can you link to the gun control measure that you are referring to?

I'm not sure if this question is aimed at me, but if so, I am referring to the gun control measures implemented in the UK after Dunblane in 1997.

In response to this debate, the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 and the Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997 were enacted, which effectively made private ownership of handguns illegal in the United Kingdom.

This is an interesting point to me. The same thing happened in Australia: VERY fast reaction by government to any crisis can get laws passed right then that could not be passed if time goes by. So they both moved fast, and got rid of guns. It's the only way, and I bet the NRA knows it, too.

A huge massacre (and many have tried: the Columbine kids were hoping to kill many hundreds with their large propane bombs collapsing the floors, but they didn't test them and none went off) could build the sudden support needed, but I'm not sure that is possible in this country. Too big for European-type cultures. Too many animals, too many criminals, too great distances to hope for police help. It's like trying to get rid of cars in favor of public transport: simply can't, the distances are too large.

The epidemic of crazy-killings is in its flood now and there may be a huge massacre that moves public opinion that far and fast. I expect one, and this year, actually. I hope it doesn't affect anyone here, if such a thing happens. Or any of the ones surely to come this year.

Those are good points, Circe.

For things to change in the US it would need public opinion to slide away from the rights of gun owners towards the rights of the victims on gun violence. That may happen, or it may go the other way.

In Ireland the war eventually came to and end only after an entire generation of prents came to be exhausted by the sight of coffins and grieving parents. The same thing could happen in the US, though the NRA will obviously fight any move towards safer laws with the profits they make from every bullet and every gun they currently sell.

The sad thing is that everyone of us knows that there will be another terrible massacre in the US very soon - and one far worse than the Boston Bombing. It will be another school, or another workplace, another nutcase, and another 20 or 30 innocent people killed.

And another lunatic who "slipped through the cracks" because background checks are an intolerable breach of rights.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Ever heard of Virginia Tech?

yes once again the state did not follow though and let him slip through the cracks

They ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL, 100%, "slip through the cracks," which I take to mean the family knows and the school or psychologists know or other professionals, but nobody does diddly-squat.

Think about all the madmen who have shot up malls and movies and schools: all of them were crazy as hoot owls and nobody stopped any of them. Doesn't happen.

Seems to me that should change. How, I don't know. Maybe the same orders to psychologists and teachers and doctors as with child abuse: you hide it, the law WILL come after you when it comes to light.

There is waaaaaaay too much collusion. Hide it, don't tell, not our business, he won't come back to therapy and pay me.

This needs to stop.

in the case of the Virginia tec shooter

he was offered a diversionary program

so the courts did not commit him

thus leaving him with the ability to legally purchase firearms

and yes that needs to stop

 

[JWBooth]

At about the time that the trend started trending downward efforts to hamper ownership increased. At the same time as those efforts ramped up, legal firearm ownership increased in response.

Some folks would call this a clue

 

[rightwinger]

At about the time that the trend started trending downward efforts to hamper ownership increased. At the same time as those efforts ramped up, legal firearm ownership increased in response.

Some folks would call this a clue

The murder rate dropped as the Crack Wars ended

 

[rightwinger]

guns do not cause suicide - but enable successful suicide attempts -

So do tall buildings.

16,000 suicides by gun last year...

vs.

a few dozen successful jumps off tall buildings.

But here's the gag. Owners of tall buildings actually take measures to make sure that people don't jump off their buildings. Windows are locked, doors are locked, there are security measures taken.

Unlike the gun industry... where, hey, just because you're mentally ill shouldn't stop you from excercising your second amendment rights!

Ignore those 16000 gun suicides because a dozen people managed to jump off a building

 

[Circe]

Ignore those 16000 gun suicides because a dozen people managed to jump off a building

Suicides don't matter. That's not at all what the whole gun controversy is about.

It's about stranger danger. We feel gravely out of control of our lives when there are crazies around ready and able to run into the school and shoot our children or run into the grocery store and shoot us.

Nobody is ever going to change laws because of suicides. That's just not where it's at.

 

[Circe]

The sad thing is that everyone of us knows that there will be another terrible massacre in the US very soon - and one far worse than the Boston Bombing. It will be another school, or another workplace, another nutcase, and another 20 or 30 innocent people killed.

And another lunatic who "slipped through the cracks" because background checks are an intolerable breach of rights.

It's not a massacre of 20 or 30 I am worried about! It's massacres on the scale of Timothy McVeigh or Andre Breivik. That's who they are all competing with now. I have read a few books on this phenomenon and it is known that they compete with other mass murderers, and compare themselves and collect articles about them and are jealous of scores and fame, just as serial killers do. Lanza had ammo for several hundred deaths; given time, he would have killed everyone in that school. He was so weighed down by his several guns and all the high-capacity ammo reloads that he could hardly walk.

ALL of them, nearly, come prepared for far greater hit counts than they end up getting, because their magazines jam, the police come, something distracts or incapacitates them. They all carry several guns and lots of ammo: James Holmes did that, plus body armor so he could just keep shooting. The original Columbine kids wanted to take out several hundred, and would have if they had tested their bombs and got them to work. They didn't presumably because they were afraid testing such powerful explosions would get them caught. Sooner or later someone of these monsters will get "lucky" in their own terms and they will have a large crowd at their mercy when a SWAT team cannot get there in time.

Well, the assault rifle massacres may well morph into explosives massacres, what with the example of the Chechens in Boston. Obviously it's easy to make bombs, pipe bombs and propane bombs and fertilizer bombs and those pressure cooker bombs.

 

[rightwinger]

Ignore those 16000 gun suicides because a dozen people managed to jump off a building

Suicides don't matter. That's not at all what the whole gun controversy is about.

It's about stranger danger. We feel gravely out of control of our lives when there are crazies around ready and able to run into the school and shoot our children or run into the grocery store and shoot us.

Nobody is ever going to change laws because of suicides. That's just not where it's at.

It's the unfettered access to guns. Feel like killing the wife......a gun s handy. Feel like killing yourself.......a gun is handy. Feel like shooting up a school.....a gun is handy

It's the price we pay for a Second Amendment

 

[M14 Shooter]

Republicans and gun violence:

The Durango Herald 03/09/2013 | Most gun deaths in state are suicides

Suicides accounted for 76 percent of the 6,258 deaths from guns over the 12 years, while homicides comprised 20 percent. The rest were either accidental, legal shootings by law-enforcement officers, or unexplained. Nationally, about 60 percent of gun deaths are suicides.

Gun suicides were disproportionately committed by white residents

Red State vs. Blue State battle: Suicide rates

When you look at the lies and emptiness of following frauds like Sailer, Limbaugh, and the Republicans, it really comes as no surprise depression, hopelessness, and suicide prevails among the right-wingers.

So.... why arent you campaigning to make it easier for these poeple to buy guns?

 

[Unkotare]

Gun laws do - because guns do not disappear from the streets overnight. It takes time for the level of gun ownership to begin to drop, whether through buy-back schemes or just lower sales of guns.

If the US implemented gun safety laws tomorrow, I would expect it to take five years for it to really start to make a difference at street level. .

You gotta laugh at pretentious foreign douchebags like this one who clearly don't understand the first thing about America or Americans, but can't help 'shooting' their big mouths off anyway. You couldn't make a more ridiculous caricature if you tried.

 

[Unkotare]

The sad thing is that everyone of us knows that there will be another terrible massacre in the US very soon - and one far worse than the Boston Bombing. It will be another school, or another workplace, another nutcase, and another 20 or 30 innocent people killed.

A lot of terrible things are going to happen tomorrow all over the world. A lot more wonderful things are going to happen tomorrow all over the world. All this regardless of whether any foreign big-mouths think they deserve line-item veto powers over our Constitution.

 

[Unkotare]

So do tall buildings.

16,000 suicides by gun last year...

vs.

a few dozen successful jumps off tall buildings.

But here's the gag. Owners of tall buildings actually take measures to make sure that people don't jump off their buildings. Windows are locked, doors are locked, there are security measures taken.

Unlike the gun industry... where, hey, just because you're mentally ill shouldn't stop you from excercising your second amendment rights!

Ignore those 16000 gun suicides because a dozen people managed to jump off a building

Who has suggested that any suicides by any means should be "ignored"?

 

[Erand7899]

So do tall buildings.

16,000 suicides by gun last year...

vs.

a few dozen successful jumps off tall buildings.

But here's the gag. Owners of tall buildings actually take measures to make sure that people don't jump off their buildings. Windows are locked, doors are locked, there are security measures taken.

Unlike the gun industry... where, hey, just because you're mentally ill shouldn't stop you from excercising your second amendment rights!

Ignore those 16000 gun suicides because a dozen people managed to jump off a building

Which ones of those gun suicides are more important that suicide by jumping off a building? All of you loons seem to get hung up on numbers. One baby dies, no big deal to any of you, but if 20 babies die, you want to change the world.

 

[Ragnar]

With gun violence down, is America arming against an imagined threat?

Fox Butterfield, is that you?

Fox Butterfield - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


(hat tip to James Taranto)

 

[OriginalShroom]

I sure do wish those on the left got as worked up over 300,000 murders a year of unborn children as they do over suicides by gun.

 

[Spoonman]

At about the time that the trend started trending downward efforts to hamper ownership increased. At the same time as those efforts ramped up, legal firearm ownership increased in response.

Some folks would call this a clue

The murder rate dropped as the Crack Wars ended

so it was crack wars, not guns that were the issue