Wish Kasich would just switch parties and get it over with

[Brain357]

Bush had a GOP Congress for 6 years, how'd that debt thing work out then?

Better than Obama, but one of the reasons we quit supporting them is because they started to act like Democrats.

Bush ruined a balanced budget....

Congress controls the purse strings...

And along with Bush they were/are all career politicians. Jack weed

Yes so congress has been republican how long now? And the debt ceiling is increasing?

It's impossible to be a career politician and conservative at the same time… Fact

And you keep voting for these clowns.

 

[Rustic]

Better than Obama, but one of the reasons we quit supporting them is because they started to act like Democrats.

Bush ruined a balanced budget....

Congress controls the purse strings...

And along with Bush they were/are all career politicians. Jack weed

Yes so congress has been republican how long now? And the debt ceiling is increasing?

It's impossible to be a career politician and conservative at the same time… Fact

And you keep voting for these clowns.

I have never voted for career politician in my life

 

[NYcarbineer]

There is hope:
GOP senator: Bipartisan health care bill in 10 days - CNNPolitics
The problem is the far right.

I know, it's always the other side's fault.

And there's the problem.
.

Cmon man. Only one side is holding up fixing this.

Regarding health care? Yes, agreed.

But big picture? No. This division, this mess, is a team effort.
.

Well at least you seem to agree the the far right is obstructing fixing health care. What is the left obstructing?

I can see where this is going. You're trying to bend the conversation to obstruction, when that was never my point.

Clearly, your ideology is going to stop you from exercising any serious critical examination of the Left.

That's fine, I get this from both sides, which is the point of the first sentence in my sig.

You would have much more fun doing this with a right winger. I'm not very good at it.
.

You get it from both sides because of your remarkable ability to be full of shit in either direction.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It's all there Ray, it's quite simple.

What's all there? The only thing that's there is voters don't vote third party. It's that simple. A third party stands no chance and every voter wants their vote to count. If you vote a third party, you might as well not even bother to vote at all; a waste of time.

The rest of country doesn't want a third party? Amazing Ray, amazing argument. How do they know they don't want a third party?

Uhhhhh, because we do have third parties and nobody votes for them??????

The Libertarian Party is a joke, well, why? This is the whole point of what we're talking about. They're a joke because the system doesn't allow them a way in. None of them are ever mentioned in election results.

There is no controlling system that you speak of. If there is, please explain what that system is that I'm totally unaware of.

The truth about voting is we seldom vote for a candidate; we vote to keep the other candidate out. So if you throw your vote away on a third party candidate, you actually usher in the candidate you didn't want.

Liberals are using one of their many excuses why Hil-Liar lost, and that is votes were taken from her by a third party candidate. Voters who were sick of the Dem party and wanted to send a message to them that voted third party are now regretting it because their vote was responsible for the Trump presidency. See how it works now?

And if YOU actually did something about it and started your own third party, it would be met with the same results; not because of the system, not because of the two power parties, but because people don't want to throw away their vote on your party candidate.

Okay Ray, let's try this. Why don't people vote for a third party? Is it because they don't want a third party, or is it because the system doesn't allow for it?

I've told you before, under the German system where they vote FPTP and PR on the same day, 10% of people switch their votes from the large parties under FPTP to smaller parties under PR. Why is that? Is it that they don't want a third party? No, it's the when you have a FPTP type system, you think "only these two stand a chance of winning, I don't want that one to win, so I'm going to vote for this one instead, even though I don't like them that much", but under PR they're like "hey, I like this party, I'll vote for them"

FPTP encourages NEGATIVE voting. PR encourages POSITIVE voting.

Exclusive: Top reason Americans will vote for Trump: 'To stop Clinton' - poll

"Exclusive: Top reason Americans will vote for Trump: 'To stop Clinton' - poll"

"Nearly half of American voters who support either Democrat Hillary Clinton or Republican Donald Trump for the White House said they will mainly be trying to block the other side from winning, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll released Thursday."

This isn't a case of people just voting who they wanted to vote for. People didn't want to vote Hillary or Trump in the US election. They'd have prefered someone else, but they got to choose who the people in the parties wanted to choose and felt they had no choice but to choose which one they didn't want.

And you've just given the BIGGEST reason for having PR, people feel that a 3rd party vote is a waste of time. In Germany this isn't the case, in almost all countries with PR this isn't the case. You have PR, you don't have to feel a vote for a 3rd party is a waste of time.

I don't know what a PR is or what it does, nor an FPTP, but we've been voting the same way for centuries and that's never going to change. If people get pissed enough at one party or the other, they will (on their own) vote for a similar party. Look for that to happen with the Republicans if Congress keeps stopping Trump from his agenda. With the Trump victory, the Republicans (particularly the establishment Republicans) haven't yet figured out their constituents are pissed off about nothing getting done when we put them in power.

I've always called the Democrat party the party of excuses, but I'm beginning to think it applies to both.

Ray, do you know what it's like talking to someone who thinks they have all the answers, then it turns out they don't actually know what anything is? It's kind of frustrating.

PR is Proportional Representation. This is one person one vote with each vote being worth the same. FPTP is First Past The Post, it's what the US has. Whoever gets the most votes wins the seat. It happens in most elections. In the Presidential election some states will distribute their electoral college votes based on who votes what, but most stick with FPTP.

Yes, the US has been voting the same way for a while. It's not going to change? Well, actually it has changed. But is your argument that there should be no change because it's been around for a while? That's a pretty lame argument.

No, actually if people get pissed at one party, they're more likely to not vote, because like you said, what's the point of voting third party?

You seem to be ignoring the FACTS.

Like I said, 10% of people in Germany change their votes. Now, you have no idea what PR and FPTP are. You couldn't even be ******* bothered to do a simple search on the internet to find out, and your arguments are ******* lame as hell.

Let's face the facts Ray, you couldn't give a ****. You only care that the system is biased towards your way of thinking, and so you don't want to change the system. Don't bullshit me with other lame arguments, because I can see through that shit. Just be honest for once. You don't have a clue about electoral systems and you don't want to know because you don't care about people have a fair vote, you just want to win.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It's all there Ray, it's quite simple.

What's all there? The only thing that's there is voters don't vote third party. It's that simple. A third party stands no chance and every voter wants their vote to count. If you vote a third party, you might as well not even bother to vote at all; a waste of time.

The rest of country doesn't want a third party? Amazing Ray, amazing argument. How do they know they don't want a third party?

Uhhhhh, because we do have third parties and nobody votes for them??????

The Libertarian Party is a joke, well, why? This is the whole point of what we're talking about. They're a joke because the system doesn't allow them a way in. None of them are ever mentioned in election results.

There is no controlling system that you speak of. If there is, please explain what that system is that I'm totally unaware of.

The truth about voting is we seldom vote for a candidate; we vote to keep the other candidate out. So if you throw your vote away on a third party candidate, you actually usher in the candidate you didn't want.

Liberals are using one of their many excuses why Hil-Liar lost, and that is votes were taken from her by a third party candidate. Voters who were sick of the Dem party and wanted to send a message to them that voted third party are now regretting it because their vote was responsible for the Trump presidency. See how it works now?

And if YOU actually did something about it and started your own third party, it would be met with the same results; not because of the system, not because of the two power parties, but because people don't want to throw away their vote on your party candidate.

Okay Ray, let's try this. Why don't people vote for a third party? Is it because they don't want a third party, or is it because the system doesn't allow for it?

I've told you before, under the German system where they vote FPTP and PR on the same day, 10% of people switch their votes from the large parties under FPTP to smaller parties under PR. Why is that? Is it that they don't want a third party? No, it's the when you have a FPTP type system, you think "only these two stand a chance of winning, I don't want that one to win, so I'm going to vote for this one instead, even though I don't like them that much", but under PR they're like "hey, I like this party, I'll vote for them"

FPTP encourages NEGATIVE voting. PR encourages POSITIVE voting.

Exclusive: Top reason Americans will vote for Trump: 'To stop Clinton' - poll

"Exclusive: Top reason Americans will vote for Trump: 'To stop Clinton' - poll"

"Nearly half of American voters who support either Democrat Hillary Clinton or Republican Donald Trump for the White House said they will mainly be trying to block the other side from winning, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll released Thursday."

This isn't a case of people just voting who they wanted to vote for. People didn't want to vote Hillary or Trump in the US election. They'd have prefered someone else, but they got to choose who the people in the parties wanted to choose and felt they had no choice but to choose which one they didn't want.

And you've just given the BIGGEST reason for having PR, people feel that a 3rd party vote is a waste of time. In Germany this isn't the case, in almost all countries with PR this isn't the case. You have PR, you don't have to feel a vote for a 3rd party is a waste of time.

I would sure like to vote for another party.

Like I have been saying, the Republicans sold out their souls. The "Christian" right just elected a guy on his 3rd marriage. Years into a repub congress and they are raising the debt ceiling AGAIN. They are supporting corporate welfare and hosing the tax payer. It is a sad state of affairs. I think hating hispanics is all they agree on. And that's just the new scapegoat now that unions are mostly gone. So much for all the greatness we were going to have when unions were gone. Now if only we can get rid of those hispanics. Just more scapegoating while they ignore their policies don't work.

Well then you should support Proportional Representation. It's the way to make your vote count.

 

[Mac1958]

I would sure like to vote for another party.

Like I have been saying, the Republicans sold out their souls. The "Christian" right just elected a guy on his 3rd marriage. Years into a repub congress and they are raising the debt ceiling AGAIN. They are supporting corporate welfare and hosing the tax payer. It is a sad state of affairs. I think hating hispanics is all they agree on. And that's just the new scapegoat now that unions are mostly gone. So much for all the greatness we were going to have when unions were gone. Now if only we can get rid of those hispanics. Just more scapegoating while they ignore their policies don't work.

I keep finding myself saying, "okay, this has to be it, this has to be that point where both parties have become so repulsive that AT LEAST one new viable, national party has to emerge".

I'm beginning to run out of hope for that. We just keep allowing this to go on.
.

There is hope:
GOP senator: Bipartisan health care bill in 10 days - CNNPolitics
The problem is the far right.

I know, it's always the other side's fault.

And there's the problem.
.

Cmon man. Only one side is holding up fixing this.

Both are to blame, but I do give more blame to those in control right now.

Sure. The party in power - especially this much power - is going to be much easier to attack if that's the goal.
.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It's all there Ray, it's quite simple.

What's all there? The only thing that's there is voters don't vote third party. It's that simple. A third party stands no chance and every voter wants their vote to count. If you vote a third party, you might as well not even bother to vote at all; a waste of time.

The rest of country doesn't want a third party? Amazing Ray, amazing argument. How do they know they don't want a third party?

Uhhhhh, because we do have third parties and nobody votes for them??????

The Libertarian Party is a joke, well, why? This is the whole point of what we're talking about. They're a joke because the system doesn't allow them a way in. None of them are ever mentioned in election results.

There is no controlling system that you speak of. If there is, please explain what that system is that I'm totally unaware of.

The truth about voting is we seldom vote for a candidate; we vote to keep the other candidate out. So if you throw your vote away on a third party candidate, you actually usher in the candidate you didn't want.

Liberals are using one of their many excuses why Hil-Liar lost, and that is votes were taken from her by a third party candidate. Voters who were sick of the Dem party and wanted to send a message to them that voted third party are now regretting it because their vote was responsible for the Trump presidency. See how it works now?

And if YOU actually did something about it and started your own third party, it would be met with the same results; not because of the system, not because of the two power parties, but because people don't want to throw away their vote on your party candidate.

Okay Ray, let's try this. Why don't people vote for a third party? Is it because they don't want a third party, or is it because the system doesn't allow for it?

I've told you before, under the German system where they vote FPTP and PR on the same day, 10% of people switch their votes from the large parties under FPTP to smaller parties under PR. Why is that? Is it that they don't want a third party? No, it's the when you have a FPTP type system, you think "only these two stand a chance of winning, I don't want that one to win, so I'm going to vote for this one instead, even though I don't like them that much", but under PR they're like "hey, I like this party, I'll vote for them"

FPTP encourages NEGATIVE voting. PR encourages POSITIVE voting.

Exclusive: Top reason Americans will vote for Trump: 'To stop Clinton' - poll

"Exclusive: Top reason Americans will vote for Trump: 'To stop Clinton' - poll"

"Nearly half of American voters who support either Democrat Hillary Clinton or Republican Donald Trump for the White House said they will mainly be trying to block the other side from winning, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll released Thursday."

This isn't a case of people just voting who they wanted to vote for. People didn't want to vote Hillary or Trump in the US election. They'd have prefered someone else, but they got to choose who the people in the parties wanted to choose and felt they had no choice but to choose which one they didn't want.

And you've just given the BIGGEST reason for having PR, people feel that a 3rd party vote is a waste of time. In Germany this isn't the case, in almost all countries with PR this isn't the case. You have PR, you don't have to feel a vote for a 3rd party is a waste of time.

I don't know what a PR is or what it does, nor an FPTP, but we've been voting the same way for centuries and that's never going to change. If people get pissed enough at one party or the other, they will (on their own) vote for a similar party. Look for that to happen with the Republicans if Congress keeps stopping Trump from his agenda. With the Trump victory, the Republicans (particularly the establishment Republicans) haven't yet figured out their constituents are pissed off about nothing getting done when we put them in power.

I've always called the Democrat party the party of excuses, but I'm beginning to think it applies to both.

Ray, do you know what it's like talking to someone who thinks they have all the answers, then it turns out they don't actually know what anything is? It's kind of frustrating.

PR is Proportional Representation. This is one person one vote with each vote being worth the same. FPTP is First Past The Post, it's what the US has. Whoever gets the most votes wins the seat. It happens in most elections. In the Presidential election some states will distribute their electoral college votes based on who votes what, but most stick with FPTP.

Yes, the US has been voting the same way for a while. It's not going to change? Well, actually it has changed. But is your argument that there should be no change because it's been around for a while? That's a pretty lame argument.

No, actually if people get pissed at one party, they're more likely to not vote, because like you said, what's the point of voting third party?

You seem to be ignoring the FACTS.

Like I said, 10% of people in Germany change their votes. Now, you have no idea what PR and FPTP are. You couldn't even be ******* bothered to do a simple search on the internet to find out, and your arguments are ******* lame as hell.

Let's face the facts Ray, you couldn't give a ****. You only care that the system is biased towards your way of thinking, and so you don't want to change the system. Don't bullshit me with other lame arguments, because I can see through that shit. Just be honest for once. You don't have a clue about electoral systems and you don't want to know because you don't care about people have a fair vote, you just want to win.

The EC is the fairest way to vote. It insures that everybody has a horse in the race. After all, you vote for a President based on what he's going to do for the people, but that can easily be extended to land as well.

So much like the reason every state has two Senators equally, we have to give some leverage to low populated states, otherwise they are not even worth pandering to to get votes from the candidates, and our major cities and more populated states would have control over the entire country.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

I WAS a Kasich supporter. I supported him for his reelection as Governor, and I supported him for his presidential bid. But now I regret and am even ashamed that I did.

Besides his childish behavior during the primaries, he not only went back on his word to support whoever the Republican nominee might be, he also didn't attend the RNC held by his own party in his very own state. Afterwards had nothing kind to say about our new President. But now he's gone off the deep end.

Gov. John Kasich blasts President Donald Trump, invites immigrant 'Dreamers' to Ohio

Who does this clown think he is anyway? Does he now believe he's the king of Ohio where he can say "And, by the way, if the Dreamers want to go somewhere and live? Come to Ohio. We want all the immigrants to come to Ohio, because we know how much they contribute to America."

Who is this "we" that he's talking about here? There is no "we" that feels this way, there is you and speak for yourself! I would expect a statement like this out of California, Massachusetts or New York, but not out of my state of Ohio.

Kasich is finished as Governor because he can only serve two terms; not that he would get reelected again anyway, but I seriously doubt he will just go away. If he runs for any other public office, he should just switch to the Democrat party first and get it over with. After all, Republicans have no use for this guy anymore, and so it seems, Democrat voters really like him. Now I can understand why. He's petulant, feels he's entitled, thinks like a liberal, and has little in the way of integrity.

A PERFECT example of why PR is necessary in the modern era. There are just too many different political positions to fit into an outdated two party system.

No, not really. That's why we are sick of moderates in our party. Get them out of there.

Yeah, then enjoy never winning another election. BOTH parties need moderates to survive. Alienate them at your peril.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I WAS a Kasich supporter. I supported him for his reelection as Governor, and I supported him for his presidential bid. But now I regret and am even ashamed that I did.

Besides his childish behavior during the primaries, he not only went back on his word to support whoever the Republican nominee might be, he also didn't attend the RNC held by his own party in his very own state. Afterwards had nothing kind to say about our new President. But now he's gone off the deep end.

Gov. John Kasich blasts President Donald Trump, invites immigrant 'Dreamers' to Ohio

Who does this clown think he is anyway? Does he now believe he's the king of Ohio where he can say "And, by the way, if the Dreamers want to go somewhere and live? Come to Ohio. We want all the immigrants to come to Ohio, because we know how much they contribute to America."

Who is this "we" that he's talking about here? There is no "we" that feels this way, there is you and speak for yourself! I would expect a statement like this out of California, Massachusetts or New York, but not out of my state of Ohio.

Kasich is finished as Governor because he can only serve two terms; not that he would get reelected again anyway, but I seriously doubt he will just go away. If he runs for any other public office, he should just switch to the Democrat party first and get it over with. After all, Republicans have no use for this guy anymore, and so it seems, Democrat voters really like him. Now I can understand why. He's petulant, feels he's entitled, thinks like a liberal, and has little in the way of integrity.

A PERFECT example of why PR is necessary in the modern era. There are just too many different political positions to fit into an outdated two party system.

No, not really. That's why we are sick of moderates in our party. Get them out of there.

Yeah, then enjoy never winning another election. BOTH parties need moderates to survive. Alienate them at your peril.

I don't follow the Democrat party, but I'm unaware of many (any) moderates. They all seem to stick together no matter what like when Commie Care was voted in without one single Republican vote.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It's all there Ray, it's quite simple.

What's all there? The only thing that's there is voters don't vote third party. It's that simple. A third party stands no chance and every voter wants their vote to count. If you vote a third party, you might as well not even bother to vote at all; a waste of time.

The rest of country doesn't want a third party? Amazing Ray, amazing argument. How do they know they don't want a third party?

Uhhhhh, because we do have third parties and nobody votes for them??????

The Libertarian Party is a joke, well, why? This is the whole point of what we're talking about. They're a joke because the system doesn't allow them a way in. None of them are ever mentioned in election results.

There is no controlling system that you speak of. If there is, please explain what that system is that I'm totally unaware of.

The truth about voting is we seldom vote for a candidate; we vote to keep the other candidate out. So if you throw your vote away on a third party candidate, you actually usher in the candidate you didn't want.

Liberals are using one of their many excuses why Hil-Liar lost, and that is votes were taken from her by a third party candidate. Voters who were sick of the Dem party and wanted to send a message to them that voted third party are now regretting it because their vote was responsible for the Trump presidency. See how it works now?

And if YOU actually did something about it and started your own third party, it would be met with the same results; not because of the system, not because of the two power parties, but because people don't want to throw away their vote on your party candidate.

Okay Ray, let's try this. Why don't people vote for a third party? Is it because they don't want a third party, or is it because the system doesn't allow for it?

I've told you before, under the German system where they vote FPTP and PR on the same day, 10% of people switch their votes from the large parties under FPTP to smaller parties under PR. Why is that? Is it that they don't want a third party? No, it's the when you have a FPTP type system, you think "only these two stand a chance of winning, I don't want that one to win, so I'm going to vote for this one instead, even though I don't like them that much", but under PR they're like "hey, I like this party, I'll vote for them"

FPTP encourages NEGATIVE voting. PR encourages POSITIVE voting.

Exclusive: Top reason Americans will vote for Trump: 'To stop Clinton' - poll

"Exclusive: Top reason Americans will vote for Trump: 'To stop Clinton' - poll"

"Nearly half of American voters who support either Democrat Hillary Clinton or Republican Donald Trump for the White House said they will mainly be trying to block the other side from winning, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll released Thursday."

This isn't a case of people just voting who they wanted to vote for. People didn't want to vote Hillary or Trump in the US election. They'd have prefered someone else, but they got to choose who the people in the parties wanted to choose and felt they had no choice but to choose which one they didn't want.

And you've just given the BIGGEST reason for having PR, people feel that a 3rd party vote is a waste of time. In Germany this isn't the case, in almost all countries with PR this isn't the case. You have PR, you don't have to feel a vote for a 3rd party is a waste of time.

I don't know what a PR is or what it does, nor an FPTP, but we've been voting the same way for centuries and that's never going to change. If people get pissed enough at one party or the other, they will (on their own) vote for a similar party. Look for that to happen with the Republicans if Congress keeps stopping Trump from his agenda. With the Trump victory, the Republicans (particularly the establishment Republicans) haven't yet figured out their constituents are pissed off about nothing getting done when we put them in power.

I've always called the Democrat party the party of excuses, but I'm beginning to think it applies to both.

Ray, do you know what it's like talking to someone who thinks they have all the answers, then it turns out they don't actually know what anything is? It's kind of frustrating.

PR is Proportional Representation. This is one person one vote with each vote being worth the same. FPTP is First Past The Post, it's what the US has. Whoever gets the most votes wins the seat. It happens in most elections. In the Presidential election some states will distribute their electoral college votes based on who votes what, but most stick with FPTP.

Yes, the US has been voting the same way for a while. It's not going to change? Well, actually it has changed. But is your argument that there should be no change because it's been around for a while? That's a pretty lame argument.

No, actually if people get pissed at one party, they're more likely to not vote, because like you said, what's the point of voting third party?

You seem to be ignoring the FACTS.

Like I said, 10% of people in Germany change their votes. Now, you have no idea what PR and FPTP are. You couldn't even be ******* bothered to do a simple search on the internet to find out, and your arguments are ******* lame as hell.

Let's face the facts Ray, you couldn't give a ****. You only care that the system is biased towards your way of thinking, and so you don't want to change the system. Don't bullshit me with other lame arguments, because I can see through that shit. Just be honest for once. You don't have a clue about electoral systems and you don't want to know because you don't care about people have a fair vote, you just want to win.

The EC is the fairest way to vote. It insures that everybody has a horse in the race. After all, you vote for a President based on what he's going to do for the people, but that can easily be extended to land as well.

So much like the reason every state has two Senators equally, we have to give some leverage to low populated states, otherwise they are not even worth pandering to to get votes from the candidates, and our major cities and more populated states would have control over the entire country.

No Ray it's not the fairest. Under no circumstances can anyone say it's the fairest. Like I told you, you're interested in one thing.

Everyone doesn't have a horse in the race Ray, it's quite clear that only 12 states have a horse in the race. And seeing how you don't understand other political systems, it seems a little rich that you're telling me it's the fairest system.

So basically what you're writing is bullshit because you have no idea if it's the fairest system.

 

[initforme]

It's the working class underpaid people that make the big bucks for the Ill repute ceos who absolutely hate those workers. It's in some folks blood to side with the ceos. Hence we are it in the posts. The sad fact is most all companies do not like their employees...fact I stake everything I have on.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What's all there? The only thing that's there is voters don't vote third party. It's that simple. A third party stands no chance and every voter wants their vote to count. If you vote a third party, you might as well not even bother to vote at all; a waste of time.

Uhhhhh, because we do have third parties and nobody votes for them??????

There is no controlling system that you speak of. If there is, please explain what that system is that I'm totally unaware of.

The truth about voting is we seldom vote for a candidate; we vote to keep the other candidate out. So if you throw your vote away on a third party candidate, you actually usher in the candidate you didn't want.

Liberals are using one of their many excuses why Hil-Liar lost, and that is votes were taken from her by a third party candidate. Voters who were sick of the Dem party and wanted to send a message to them that voted third party are now regretting it because their vote was responsible for the Trump presidency. See how it works now?

And if YOU actually did something about it and started your own third party, it would be met with the same results; not because of the system, not because of the two power parties, but because people don't want to throw away their vote on your party candidate.

Okay Ray, let's try this. Why don't people vote for a third party? Is it because they don't want a third party, or is it because the system doesn't allow for it?

I've told you before, under the German system where they vote FPTP and PR on the same day, 10% of people switch their votes from the large parties under FPTP to smaller parties under PR. Why is that? Is it that they don't want a third party? No, it's the when you have a FPTP type system, you think "only these two stand a chance of winning, I don't want that one to win, so I'm going to vote for this one instead, even though I don't like them that much", but under PR they're like "hey, I like this party, I'll vote for them"

FPTP encourages NEGATIVE voting. PR encourages POSITIVE voting.

Exclusive: Top reason Americans will vote for Trump: 'To stop Clinton' - poll

"Exclusive: Top reason Americans will vote for Trump: 'To stop Clinton' - poll"

"Nearly half of American voters who support either Democrat Hillary Clinton or Republican Donald Trump for the White House said they will mainly be trying to block the other side from winning, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll released Thursday."

This isn't a case of people just voting who they wanted to vote for. People didn't want to vote Hillary or Trump in the US election. They'd have prefered someone else, but they got to choose who the people in the parties wanted to choose and felt they had no choice but to choose which one they didn't want.

And you've just given the BIGGEST reason for having PR, people feel that a 3rd party vote is a waste of time. In Germany this isn't the case, in almost all countries with PR this isn't the case. You have PR, you don't have to feel a vote for a 3rd party is a waste of time.

I don't know what a PR is or what it does, nor an FPTP, but we've been voting the same way for centuries and that's never going to change. If people get pissed enough at one party or the other, they will (on their own) vote for a similar party. Look for that to happen with the Republicans if Congress keeps stopping Trump from his agenda. With the Trump victory, the Republicans (particularly the establishment Republicans) haven't yet figured out their constituents are pissed off about nothing getting done when we put them in power.

I've always called the Democrat party the party of excuses, but I'm beginning to think it applies to both.

Ray, do you know what it's like talking to someone who thinks they have all the answers, then it turns out they don't actually know what anything is? It's kind of frustrating.

PR is Proportional Representation. This is one person one vote with each vote being worth the same. FPTP is First Past The Post, it's what the US has. Whoever gets the most votes wins the seat. It happens in most elections. In the Presidential election some states will distribute their electoral college votes based on who votes what, but most stick with FPTP.

Yes, the US has been voting the same way for a while. It's not going to change? Well, actually it has changed. But is your argument that there should be no change because it's been around for a while? That's a pretty lame argument.

No, actually if people get pissed at one party, they're more likely to not vote, because like you said, what's the point of voting third party?

You seem to be ignoring the FACTS.

Like I said, 10% of people in Germany change their votes. Now, you have no idea what PR and FPTP are. You couldn't even be ******* bothered to do a simple search on the internet to find out, and your arguments are ******* lame as hell.

Let's face the facts Ray, you couldn't give a ****. You only care that the system is biased towards your way of thinking, and so you don't want to change the system. Don't bullshit me with other lame arguments, because I can see through that shit. Just be honest for once. You don't have a clue about electoral systems and you don't want to know because you don't care about people have a fair vote, you just want to win.

The EC is the fairest way to vote. It insures that everybody has a horse in the race. After all, you vote for a President based on what he's going to do for the people, but that can easily be extended to land as well.

So much like the reason every state has two Senators equally, we have to give some leverage to low populated states, otherwise they are not even worth pandering to to get votes from the candidates, and our major cities and more populated states would have control over the entire country.

No Ray it's not the fairest. Under no circumstances can anyone say it's the fairest. Like I told you, you're interested in one thing.

Everyone doesn't have a horse in the race Ray, it's quite clear that only 12 states have a horse in the race. And seeing how you don't understand other political systems, it seems a little rich that you're telling me it's the fairest system.

So basically what you're writing is bullshit because you have no idea if it's the fairest system.

Of course it's the fairest system. What could be more fair than the EC?

The Electoral College gives a politician a need to pander to less populated states just like they pander to larger more populated areas. The more populated states still have the upper hand, but at the very least the less populated states are not totally overlooked.

 

[initforme]

Corporate influence needs to be cut down at its knees.....that would help this country.

 

[Aldo Raine]

I would sure like to vote for another party.

Like I have been saying, the Republicans sold out their souls. The "Christian" right just elected a guy on his 3rd marriage. Years into a repub congress and they are raising the debt ceiling AGAIN. They are supporting corporate welfare and hosing the tax payer. It is a sad state of affairs. I think hating hispanics is all they agree on. And that's just the new scapegoat now that unions are mostly gone. So much for all the greatness we were going to have when unions were gone. Now if only we can get rid of those hispanics. Just more scapegoating while they ignore their policies don't work.

I keep finding myself saying, "okay, this has to be it, this has to be that point where both parties have become so repulsive that AT LEAST one new viable, national party has to emerge".

I'm beginning to run out of hope for that. We just keep allowing this to go on.
.

There is hope:
GOP senator: Bipartisan health care bill in 10 days - CNNPolitics
The problem is the far right.

I know, it's always the other side's fault.

And there's the problem.
.

Cmon man. Only one side is holding up fixing this.

Both are to blame, but I do give more blame to those in control right now.

Yes but only for now it is like they absolutely have to be against whatever the other side is trying to do. It cuts both ways and it's the people that suffer!

 

[Aldo Raine]

It's the working class underpaid people that make the big bucks for the Ill repute ceos who absolutely hate those workers. It's in some folks blood to side with the ceos. Hence we are it in the posts. The sad fact is most all companies do not like their employees...fact I stake everything I have on.

This gets more and more true every day. The bigger the company the more they hate the people doing the actual work to make their widget!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It's the working class underpaid people that make the big bucks for the Ill repute ceos who absolutely hate those workers. It's in some folks blood to side with the ceos. Hence we are it in the posts. The sad fact is most all companies do not like their employees...fact I stake everything I have on.

This gets more and more true every day. The bigger the company the more they hate the people doing the actual work to make their widget!

All this hate and not one iota of evidence to support it.

 

[Aldo Raine]

It's the working class underpaid people that make the big bucks for the Ill repute ceos who absolutely hate those workers. It's in some folks blood to side with the ceos. Hence we are it in the posts. The sad fact is most all companies do not like their employees...fact I stake everything I have on.

This gets more and more true every day. The bigger the company the more they hate the people doing the actual work to make their widget!

All this hate and not one iota of evidence to support it.

I work it all the time bro.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

I WAS a Kasich supporter. I supported him for his reelection as Governor, and I supported him for his presidential bid. But now I regret and am even ashamed that I did.

Besides his childish behavior during the primaries, he not only went back on his word to support whoever the Republican nominee might be, he also didn't attend the RNC held by his own party in his very own state. Afterwards had nothing kind to say about our new President. But now he's gone off the deep end.

Gov. John Kasich blasts President Donald Trump, invites immigrant 'Dreamers' to Ohio

Who does this clown think he is anyway? Does he now believe he's the king of Ohio where he can say "And, by the way, if the Dreamers want to go somewhere and live? Come to Ohio. We want all the immigrants to come to Ohio, because we know how much they contribute to America."

Who is this "we" that he's talking about here? There is no "we" that feels this way, there is you and speak for yourself! I would expect a statement like this out of California, Massachusetts or New York, but not out of my state of Ohio.

Kasich is finished as Governor because he can only serve two terms; not that he would get reelected again anyway, but I seriously doubt he will just go away. If he runs for any other public office, he should just switch to the Democrat party first and get it over with. After all, Republicans have no use for this guy anymore, and so it seems, Democrat voters really like him. Now I can understand why. He's petulant, feels he's entitled, thinks like a liberal, and has little in the way of integrity.

A PERFECT example of why PR is necessary in the modern era. There are just too many different political positions to fit into an outdated two party system.

No, not really. That's why we are sick of moderates in our party. Get them out of there.

Yeah, then enjoy never winning another election. BOTH parties need moderates to survive. Alienate them at your peril.

I don't follow the Democrat party, but I'm unaware of many (any) moderates. They all seem to stick together no matter what like when Commie Care was voted in without one single Republican vote.

Then you don't seem to know very much.

 

[Aldo Raine]

I WAS a Kasich supporter. I supported him for his reelection as Governor, and I supported him for his presidential bid. But now I regret and am even ashamed that I did.

Besides his childish behavior during the primaries, he not only went back on his word to support whoever the Republican nominee might be, he also didn't attend the RNC held by his own party in his very own state. Afterwards had nothing kind to say about our new President. But now he's gone off the deep end.

Gov. John Kasich blasts President Donald Trump, invites immigrant 'Dreamers' to Ohio

Who does this clown think he is anyway? Does he now believe he's the king of Ohio where he can say "And, by the way, if the Dreamers want to go somewhere and live? Come to Ohio. We want all the immigrants to come to Ohio, because we know how much they contribute to America."

Who is this "we" that he's talking about here? There is no "we" that feels this way, there is you and speak for yourself! I would expect a statement like this out of California, Massachusetts or New York, but not out of my state of Ohio.

Kasich is finished as Governor because he can only serve two terms; not that he would get reelected again anyway, but I seriously doubt he will just go away. If he runs for any other public office, he should just switch to the Democrat party first and get it over with. After all, Republicans have no use for this guy anymore, and so it seems, Democrat voters really like him. Now I can understand why. He's petulant, feels he's entitled, thinks like a liberal, and has little in the way of integrity.

A PERFECT example of why PR is necessary in the modern era. There are just too many different political positions to fit into an outdated two party system.

No, not really. That's why we are sick of moderates in our party. Get them out of there.

Yeah, then enjoy never winning another election. BOTH parties need moderates to survive. Alienate them at your peril.

I don't follow the Democrat party, but I'm unaware of many (any) moderates. They all seem to stick together no matter what like when Commie Care was voted in without one single Republican vote.

Then you don't seem to know very much.

You caught on to that fast sir.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I WAS a Kasich supporter. I supported him for his reelection as Governor, and I supported him for his presidential bid. But now I regret and am even ashamed that I did.

Besides his childish behavior during the primaries, he not only went back on his word to support whoever the Republican nominee might be, he also didn't attend the RNC held by his own party in his very own state. Afterwards had nothing kind to say about our new President. But now he's gone off the deep end.

Gov. John Kasich blasts President Donald Trump, invites immigrant 'Dreamers' to Ohio

Who does this clown think he is anyway? Does he now believe he's the king of Ohio where he can say "And, by the way, if the Dreamers want to go somewhere and live? Come to Ohio. We want all the immigrants to come to Ohio, because we know how much they contribute to America."

Who is this "we" that he's talking about here? There is no "we" that feels this way, there is you and speak for yourself! I would expect a statement like this out of California, Massachusetts or New York, but not out of my state of Ohio.

Kasich is finished as Governor because he can only serve two terms; not that he would get reelected again anyway, but I seriously doubt he will just go away. If he runs for any other public office, he should just switch to the Democrat party first and get it over with. After all, Republicans have no use for this guy anymore, and so it seems, Democrat voters really like him. Now I can understand why. He's petulant, feels he's entitled, thinks like a liberal, and has little in the way of integrity.

A PERFECT example of why PR is necessary in the modern era. There are just too many different political positions to fit into an outdated two party system.

No, not really. That's why we are sick of moderates in our party. Get them out of there.

Yeah, then enjoy never winning another election. BOTH parties need moderates to survive. Alienate them at your peril.

I don't follow the Democrat party, but I'm unaware of many (any) moderates. They all seem to stick together no matter what like when Commie Care was voted in without one single Republican vote.

Then you don't seem to know very much.

And yet still unable to show me who these "moderate" democrats are with evidence to support your claim.