will some of you Christians weigh in on this

[Ariux]

Ahh the love of "Christians". I already did. You just weren't quite sharp enough to figure it out.
That's fine. God even loves people like you! Maybe not as much as say, a spiritually enlightened person who happened to be gay but he still loves you! Isn't that great!
Yay God!

I'm not from the sycophant branch of Christianity. God doesn't love everyone, and maybe not you, given how you hold such moronic views as your belief that a *** can be a *** and spiritually enlightened.

 

[hortysir]

I need to ask you something, IL, to determine how much you really know about Sabbath laws.
I don;t mean it in a condescending manner, either. But you proclaim to be a non-believer AND more of a student of the Bible than any Christian in the proverbial room.

How many days did they march around Jericho before the walls crumbled?

I promise it's not a trick question.
I am going somewhere with this.

Where did you come up with this? I do not proclaim to be a non-believer. I am a Christian.

I believe the OT states it was a week that they marched around Jericho. Seven days as ordered by God - which also contradicts the corresponding commandment. Like I said, there is uch in the Bible which is self-contradictory.
But I must acknowledge and give kudos in that you debate and discuss without slining petty insults or using BS excuses to avoid answering questions - although you have still done that with the hate the mom and dad thing....

What you call a contradiction I call consistent.

Remember when I said that since Jesus was the embodiment of the Law, He couldn't be in violation of it? The Law was in/with Him.

The same thing with Jericho.
The priests were carrying the Ark of the Covenant with them. The Law was WITH them.
And Jesus was with them, too.


Joshua 5:
13And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? 14And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?
15And the captain of the LORD's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.



I'm sorry if my answer about honoring thy mother and father wasn't sufficient for you.
That doesn't equal me avoiding the question, though.

I just don't see what He said as bringing dishonor to His mother.


P.S.
Thanks for the kudos.
I do try to remain civil in the religious forum.
(I reserve the right to call you a fucktard in the Flamezone, though)

 

[Againsheila]

I found an hilarious website while surfin today, and I am hoping to get a Christian here to react to it.

God Hates Shrimp

I'm confused...do you want us to eat gays or not eat shellfish?

 

[IndependntLogic]

I need to ask you something, IL, to determine how much you really know about Sabbath laws.
I don;t mean it in a condescending manner, either. But you proclaim to be a non-believer AND more of a student of the Bible than any Christian in the proverbial room.

How many days did they march around Jericho before the walls crumbled?

I promise it's not a trick question.
I am going somewhere with this.

Where did you come up with this? I do not proclaim to be a non-believer. I am a Christian.

I believe the OT states it was a week that they marched around Jericho. Seven days as ordered by God - which also contradicts the corresponding commandment. Like I said, there is uch in the Bible which is self-contradictory.
But I must acknowledge and give kudos in that you debate and discuss without slining petty insults or using BS excuses to avoid answering questions - although you have still done that with the hate the mom and dad thing....

What you call a contradiction I call consistent.

Remember when I said that since Jesus was the embodiment of the Law, He couldn't be in violation of it? The Law was in/with Him.

That's a very cool interpretation. Mine is that God is in every one of us.

The same thing with Jericho.
The priests were carrying the Ark of the Covenant with them. The Law was WITH them.
And Jesus was with them, too.


Joshua 5:
13And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? 14And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?
15And the captain of the LORD's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.



I'm sorry if my answer about honoring thy mother and father wasn't sufficient for you.
That doesn't equal me avoiding the question, though.

I just don't see what He said as bringing dishonor to His mother.


P.S.
Thanks for the kudos.
I do try to remain civil in the religious forum.
(I reserve the right to call you a fucktard in the Flamezone, though)

So my turn then. Anyone feel free to jump in (except obviously that whackjob homophobe guy won't and well, we know how koshergirl is when it comes to directly addressing things....)

I didn't see you address my reference to Luke 14:26 at all. Only the part where Jesus called his mother "woman".

So according to your interpretation, are we no longer required to obey the Ten Commandments then?

Should slaves truly obey their masters and not attempt to flee their captivity?

Are the wealthy all doomed to hell? I'd think that Solomon and David would find that piece of news to be kind of a bummer considering it was God who made them wealthy in the first place...

 

[hortysir]

Where did you come up with this? I do not proclaim to be a non-believer. I am a Christian.

I believe the OT states it was a week that they marched around Jericho. Seven days as ordered by God - which also contradicts the corresponding commandment. Like I said, there is uch in the Bible which is self-contradictory.
But I must acknowledge and give kudos in that you debate and discuss without slining petty insults or using BS excuses to avoid answering questions - although you have still done that with the hate the mom and dad thing....

What you call a contradiction I call consistent.

Remember when I said that since Jesus was the embodiment of the Law, He couldn't be in violation of it? The Law was in/with Him.

That's a very cool interpretation. Mine is that God is in every one of us.

The same thing with Jericho.
The priests were carrying the Ark of the Covenant with them. The Law was WITH them.
And Jesus was with them, too.


Joshua 5:
13And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? 14And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?
15And the captain of the LORD's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.



I'm sorry if my answer about honoring thy mother and father wasn't sufficient for you.
That doesn't equal me avoiding the question, though.

I just don't see what He said as bringing dishonor to His mother.


P.S.
Thanks for the kudos.
I do try to remain civil in the religious forum.
(I reserve the right to call you a fucktard in the Flamezone, though)

So my turn then. Anyone feel free to jump in (except obviously that whackjob homophobe guy won't and well, we know how koshergirl is when it comes to directly addressing things....)

I didn't see you address my reference to Luke 14:26 at all. Only the part where Jesus called his mother "woman".

So according to your interpretation, are we no longer required to obey the Ten Commandments then?

Should slaves truly obey their masters and not attempt to flee their captivity?

Are the wealthy all doomed to hell? I'd think that Solomon and David would find that piece of news to be kind of a bummer considering it was God who made them wealthy in the first place...

Jesus' 2 commandments takes care of them.


I had to look up Luke 14:26 to get the context.
It was to build up to His final point, which is made in verse 33:
So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

see: 1st Commandment


Following the first Commandment out-weighs following the 5th

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I found an hilarious website while surfin today, and I am hoping to get a Christian here to react to it.

God Hates Shrimp

There are no Christians who take the Bible literally. There are plently who claim to but none who actually do. In this case, the verse most commonly used to justify the heinous act of enjoying lobster thermidor, is Matthew 15:11 which goes "What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean."

But Christ also said that He didn't come to do away with The (Jewish Traditional) Law such as those found in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. So go figure.

None? Do you honestly think it is impossible to interpret the Bible literally just because you can't think of a way to do it? Ever talk to a Mennonite? Amish? Jehovah's Witness? Why do people insist that they are the extent of the knowledge in a given area? For that matter, have you ever read Romans? Romans is probably the most important book in the entire Bible because it supplies the key to understanding how it all fits together, yet most people never get past chapter 6.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I've never eaten shrimp in my life. But, numerous verses in the New Testament make clear that dietary restrictions no longer applies. Eating unclean food made a person unclean and requires a cleansing sacrifice to make the unclean clean. Christianity is the doctrine that Christ's sacrifice obsoletes all other sacrifices, and has made that which is unclean clean. The law hasn't been changed, it has been fulfilled.

You pagans, being morons, have serious reading compression problems. The Bible doesn't say anywhere that God hates shrimp, or even that he hates people eating shrimp. And, the Bible doesn't say anyone goes to Hell for eating Shrimp. But, God hates fags and they go to Hell.

Numerous passages say that? Really? Can you actually name them, or do you just believe that because you were told that by someone else?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

But, God hates fags and they go to Hell.

You are on the wrong thread Phelps.

Can you show me the part of the Bible that says God hates fags?

In fact, can you even show me the word *** in the Bible?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So it is not a sin to eat catfish?

It might be. Sin is not something I can break down to a few words.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

But, God hates fags and they go to Hell.

You are on the wrong thread Phelps.

Right thread. The Bible says God hates fags (Leviticus 20:23 and elsewhere). I know it doesn't match the false-Christianity that you've been exposed to that says "God loves the sinner" (no verse). The Bible also doesn't say God hates shrimp or people who eat shrimp.

Pardon my intrusion into your celebration if ignorance.

You might want to check that Ariux:

23 You must not live according to the customs of the nations I am going to drive out before you. Because they did all these things, I abhorred them. 24 But I said to you, “You will possess their land; I will give it to you as an inheritance, a land flowing with milk and honey.” I am the LORD your God, who has set you apart from the nations.

Isn't it amazing that people who call themselves Christian know less about the Bible than people who call themselves atheist?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I found an hilarious website while surfin today, and I am hoping to get a Christian here to react to it.

God Hates Shrimp

Bible also says to stone adulterers but Jesus let the woman caught in adultry go. Jesus cancels out many things otherwise I couldn't eat shrimp and we'd have to stone all the gays. Guess that's why they call it the New Testament.

Want to know the difference between Jews and Muslims?

Jews read the Bible, see the parts where it talks about not wiping out a city for the sake of a few righteous people, and understand that YHWH is not about the Law as much as He is about Grace and Love.

Muslims see the law and think it is what makes Allah holy.

 

[Ariux]

numerous verses in the New Testament make clear that dietary restrictions no longer applies.

Numerous passages say that? Really? Can you actually name them, or do you just believe that because you were told that by someone else?

Yes, I can actually name them.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There are no Christians who take the Bible literally. There are plently who claim to but none who actually do. In this case, the verse most commonly used to justify the heinous act of enjoying lobster thermidor, is Matthew 15:11 which goes "What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean."

But Christ also said that He didn't come to do away with The (Jewish Traditional) Law such as those found in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. So go figure.

Did you intentionally leave out the part where He said He came to FULFILL the Law?

No. it is irrelevant. Many Christians try to use that as a means to get around scripture but fulfilling it does not somehow mean "to do away with". Otherwise, the Ten Commandments would no longer be relevant.
Jesus also very clearly said you need to hate your mother and father. Kind of big contradiction to Honoring them, eh? He didn't say or mean "love less". The translation from the Codex Sanaiticus and Codex Alexadricanus are very clear: Hate. But if one knows the context and background, it's fine and dandy. Like most of the Bible, one must search their heart and determine what they want to take literally and what they don't. Or they can let someone else tell them. Every Christian does one of the two.

How is Jesus fulfilling the law irrelevant? Just because there are Christians who are unwilling to stop sinning does not mean the law binds people who have stopped.

The law is not meant to rule men, it is meant to guide them.

Go read Romans 7, think about what it might actually mean to an intelligent person, and feel free to come back and apologize to Horty for not knowing what you are talking about.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Bible also says to stone adulterers but Jesus let the woman caught in adultry go. Jesus cancels out many things otherwise I couldn't eat shrimp and we'd have to stone all the gays. Guess that's why they call it the New Testament.

Jesus was obeying the law against stoning, not cancelling out any Old Testament laws. There were no witnesses, and without witnesses, stoning isn't supported by the Old Testament. God still hates fags, but not shrimp.

Damn, you are even dumber than rdean.

 

[Ariux]

Right thread. The Bible says God hates fags (Leviticus 20:23 and elsewhere). I know it doesn't match the false-Christianity that you've been exposed to that says "God loves the sinner" (no verse). The Bible also doesn't say God hates shrimp or people who eat shrimp.

Pardon my intrusion into your celebration if ignorance.

You might want to check that Ariux:

23 You must not live according to the customs of the nations I am going to drive out before you. Because they did all these things, I abhorred them. 24 But I said to you, “You will possess their land; I will give it to you as an inheritance, a land flowing with milk and honey.” I am the LORD your God, who has set you apart from the nations.

Isn't it amazing that people who call themselves Christian know less about the Bible than people who call themselves atheist?

"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death... Because they did all these things, I abhorred them." Maybe you should spend more time worrying about what you don't know, than worrying about what you think I don't know. Peach is too ... to read the context of the verse reference I gave.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No. it is irrelevant. Many Christians try to use that as a means to get around scripture but fulfilling it does not somehow mean "to do away with". Otherwise, the Ten Commandments would no longer be relevant.
Jesus also very clearly said you need to hate your mother and father. Kind of big contradiction to Honoring them, eh? He didn't say or mean "love less". The translation from the Codex Sanaiticus and Codex Alexadricanus are very clear: Hate. But if one knows the context and background, it's fine and dandy. Like most of the Bible, one must search their heart and determine what they want to take literally and what they don't. Or they can let someone else tell them. Every Christian does one of the two.

HE fulfilled all the 'blood laws' by being the final sacrifice.
HIS 2 commandments cover the other 10.

Well that's a lovely interpretation but that's all it is. Believe it or not, there are Christians who quote the OT in regards to say oh, gays for instance. So if you're correct then they are wrong because Jesus never condemned or even disucssed homosexuality at all, and judging or condemning gays would not be loving and accepting them without judgment, now would it?

Like I said, ALL Christians pdo exactly what you do: pick and choose what they want to take literally and what they want to interpret - or have someone else do it for them.
Notice you dodged the "hate your parents" thing. Don't blame ya!

there are also Christians who quote the New Testament about, for example, gays. Look up the word catamite sometime, it is from the KJV (the really old one) in 1 Corinthians.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You're not wrong, Ariux. Christ didn't break the law.

More than once, Christ contradicted and broke the law. He lost control of His emotions and His temper. His faith was imperfect.
You pick and choose what you want to take literally and what you want to interpret in the Bible. Or you have someone else do it for you. Just like every Christian in the world, since the beggining of The Way.

More than once? Can you provide examples? Because I can tell you flat out that losing control of your emotions, or your temper, is not against any Jewish law that ever existed. Neither is not having perfect faith, whatever you think that means, because I cannot think of a single example if his faith not being perfect.

Picking and choosing what to take literally may, or may not, be the right approach, but adding in things that are not there is definitely the wrong one. So is declaring that every Christian has always done the one thing you are trying to argue you are not doing.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

More than once, Christ contradicted and broke the law. He lost control of His emotions and His temper. His faith was imperfect.
You pick and choose what you want to take literally and what you want to interpret in the Bible. Or you have someone else do it for you. Just like every Christian in the world, since the beggining of The Way.

Again, wrong.
Besides being woefully ignorant.

Okay so you're long on BS and short on specifics - as always. Pray tell, what specifically am I wrong about?
About Christ contradicting and breaking Hebrew law?
His loss of control of emtions? Loss of temper? Imperfect faith?
That you pick and choose what you take literally?

Specify any and I am happy to provide specifics (unlike you) and address anything your counter with directly (also unlike you). People who are not ignorant can do that. Whackjobs just make claims and sling petty insults without any specifics to back it up. I wonder which you are?

Just an FYI, Christ is not a name. I would think a person that is a self declared expert would know that.

Maybe the problem is you are self declared.

I challenge you to provide a single example of Jesus actually breaking Jewish law. Keep in mind that Jewish law actually has provisions for emergencies, which is why doctors who are devout can work on the Sabbath, and even start fires. I won't hold my breathe.

Another thing you should think about, being emotional, or even angry, is not proof that you lost control of your emotions, it is simply proof that you have them. Jesus never claimed to be a Vulcan, so pointing out that he is passionate about things only proves he is human.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Didn't Jesus really mean what you eat isn't unclean but what you say can be unclean?

The dietary restrictions in the Old Testament made absolute sense for the time. In fact, they showed a remarkable perception.

They still make sense.

 

[Ariux]

Want to know the difference between Jews and Muslims?

Jews read the Bible, see the parts where it talks about not wiping out a city for the sake of a few righteous people, and understand that YHWH is not about the Law as much as He is about Grace and Love.

Muslims see the law and think it is what makes Allah holy.

Smoking crack is not an appropriate church sacrament.

The Jews who were Pharisees thought God was all about law, even their man-made law, not about grace and love. These days, with God's back turned on the Jews, they just don't believe the Bible anymore. I don't see much grace and love flowing out of Israel. I see Tel Aviv is the homosexual capital of the world and the Palestinians are brutally oppressed. BTW, I thought you were a Christian, but now I see you're a Jew. Christians don't defend false religions with falsehoods.