WikiLeaks reveals that Arab allies urged U.S. to strike Iran

[antagon]

I heard a comment last night to the effect that one of the good things coming out of the leaks is how much of the Middle East is concerned about Iran getting nukes, and how little they seem to care about Israeli settlements.

this was the impression that i was running with to start with. in the same way that americans are concerned with politician's stance on abortion, muslims are interested in a politician's vigor in terms of hating israel. when it comes time to turn inward and get things done here like in the mideast, all of the pandering bullshit goes out the window and the diplomats and policy makers think about the same issues from pragmatic perspectives which they maintain their constituents cant handle.

in this way, i'm not sure how much of the wikileaks were really revealing among the political circles involved.

 

[antagon]

So you think it may be intentional to get us to waste more of our resouces? The war must be great for the oil shieks, b/c it raises demand on thier #1 product.

it could be sinister, but the arabs and israelis recognize iran as a serious liability to them. this is the same sort of recognition that saddam got. i just feel that we were more pliable in 2003 and cheaper in terms of concessions needed to get us mobilized. it is easy to blame this wholly on bush, and he does deserve to wear the diplomatic dunce cap for the eager invasion of iraq, but there was also 9/11 and the massive american war mandate behind him, too.

these concerns entail twisting screws in iran's side and in the arab's, too. something like, remember when we were asking you bastards to increase production? what have you done for me lately?

effecting military impotence without invasion would be the goal with any US-iran action, but i dont think anything like that is in our interest on a cost/benefit basis. another perspective is that this is just the sort of guantlet we've seen nuclear states go through as they obtained the bomb. after they've got it, they're in an old-boys club and everything's (uneasy) smiles. look at pakistan, india, china, south africa...

Seems like we are in a catch-22.

We can't afford or support another war.
We, or anyone, wants a nuclear Iran.
No else will do anyting.
Everyone wants us to do it.
If we did go in before hand, we had better have a better reason than just b/c we didn't want them to have the bomb.

Oh well, looks like the people with the most to lose will have to do something. Too bad only Israel has the balls, but w/o our backing they will be hung out to dry. So now they won't make a move.

So Iran gets the bomb. since Ahmadinnerjacket is a 12th Iman, how many millions do you think will die?

this is a catch 22 indeed. i think we've blown our wad with regard to ours and our allies interest in an open conflict. we could destabilize iran, but that wont stop them at this juncture. i think the best bet is to treat them with some condescension in the nuclear bit. eventually they will acquire the capability, and then it will be up to them to be big boys and use it maturely.

all the bullshit goes out the window in the nuclear league. after they test a weapon, they'll be in the crosshairs of 500+ warheads. iran does not have the benefit of sympathy in the event of a nuclear counterstrike. as they stand now, i think they would have such sympathy if the US invaded another muslim country.

 

[Vanquish]

Anyone read Nelson DeMille? I'm up for Operation Wildfire

 

[Two Thumbs]

it could be sinister, but the arabs and israelis recognize iran as a serious liability to them. this is the same sort of recognition that saddam got. i just feel that we were more pliable in 2003 and cheaper in terms of concessions needed to get us mobilized. it is easy to blame this wholly on bush, and he does deserve to wear the diplomatic dunce cap for the eager invasion of iraq, but there was also 9/11 and the massive american war mandate behind him, too.

these concerns entail twisting screws in iran's side and in the arab's, too. something like, remember when we were asking you bastards to increase production? what have you done for me lately?

effecting military impotence without invasion would be the goal with any US-iran action, but i dont think anything like that is in our interest on a cost/benefit basis. another perspective is that this is just the sort of guantlet we've seen nuclear states go through as they obtained the bomb. after they've got it, they're in an old-boys club and everything's (uneasy) smiles. look at pakistan, india, china, south africa...

Seems like we are in a catch-22.

We can't afford or support another war.
We, or anyone, wants a nuclear Iran.
No else will do anyting.
Everyone wants us to do it.
If we did go in before hand, we had better have a better reason than just b/c we didn't want them to have the bomb.

Oh well, looks like the people with the most to lose will have to do something. Too bad only Israel has the balls, but w/o our backing they will be hung out to dry. So now they won't make a move.

So Iran gets the bomb. since Ahmadinnerjacket is a 12th Iman, how many millions do you think will die?

this is a catch 22 indeed. i think we've blown our wad with regard to ours and our allies interest in an open conflict. we could destabilize iran, but that wont stop them at this juncture. i think the best bet is to treat them with some condescension in the nuclear bit. eventually they will acquire the capability, and then it will be up to them to be big boys and use it maturely.

all the bullshit goes out the window in the nuclear league. after they test a weapon, they'll be in the crosshairs of 500+ warheads. iran does not have the benefit of sympathy in the event of a nuclear counterstrike. as they stand now, i think they would have such sympathy if the US invaded another muslim country.[/QUOTE]

True, but I think this goes deeper. Into the depths of a fanatical part of Islam.

12th Imans 'want' the end of the world, or society to collapse. It's some kind of 2nd coming thing (sorry, thin on details). However, Ahmadinajad has prayed openly for the power to bring that sitation to reality. And I'm not all that certain if he cares if he dies trying.

Imagine;

Iran nukes Israel
If the rumors are true, Israel and America nuke Iran
Russia is Irans ally, they nuke Israel and America
We nuke Russia.

What's to keep the dominoes from falling some more?

Pakistan and India nuke each other

I know it's far fetched, but neither you nor I are religious fanatics that thinks heaven awaits if we bring death to billions.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Anyone read Nelson DeMille? I'm up for Operation Wildfire

Sorry, no is the answer to both.

What's Operation Wildfire?

 

[High_Gravity]

Seems like we are in a catch-22.

We can't afford or support another war.
We, or anyone, wants a nuclear Iran.
No else will do anyting.
Everyone wants us to do it.
If we did go in before hand, we had better have a better reason than just b/c we didn't want them to have the bomb.

Oh well, looks like the people with the most to lose will have to do something. Too bad only Israel has the balls, but w/o our backing they will be hung out to dry. So now they won't make a move.

So Iran gets the bomb. since Ahmadinnerjacket is a 12th Iman, how many millions do you think will die?

this is a catch 22 indeed. i think we've blown our wad with regard to ours and our allies interest in an open conflict. we could destabilize iran, but that wont stop them at this juncture. i think the best bet is to treat them with some condescension in the nuclear bit. eventually they will acquire the capability, and then it will be up to them to be big boys and use it maturely.

all the bullshit goes out the window in the nuclear league. after they test a weapon, they'll be in the crosshairs of 500+ warheads. iran does not have the benefit of sympathy in the event of a nuclear counterstrike. as they stand now, i think they would have such sympathy if the US invaded another muslim country.[/QUOTE]

True, but I think this goes deeper. Into the depths of a fanatical part of Islam.

12th Imans 'want' the end of the world, or society to collapse. It's some kind of 2nd coming thing (sorry, thin on details). However, Ahmadinajad has prayed openly for the power to bring that sitation to reality. And I'm not all that certain if he cares if he dies trying.

Imagine;

Iran nukes Israel
If the rumors are true, Israel and America nuke Iran
Russia is Irans ally, they nuke Israel and America
We nuke Russia.

What's to keep the dominoes from falling some more?

Pakistan and India nuke each other

I know it's far fetched, but neither you nor I are religious fanatics that thinks heaven awaits if we bring death to billions.

That might be why the Arabs are ok with the US or Israel taking out Irans nukes, Sunni Muslims think the whole 12th Imam thing is bullshit and they do not believe in it.

 

[Two Thumbs]

this is a catch 22 indeed. i think we've blown our wad with regard to ours and our allies interest in an open conflict. we could destabilize iran, but that wont stop them at this juncture. i think the best bet is to treat them with some condescension in the nuclear bit. eventually they will acquire the capability, and then it will be up to them to be big boys and use it maturely.

all the bullshit goes out the window in the nuclear league. after they test a weapon, they'll be in the crosshairs of 500+ warheads. iran does not have the benefit of sympathy in the event of a nuclear counterstrike. as they stand now, i think they would have such sympathy if the US invaded another muslim country.[/QUOTE]

True, but I think this goes deeper. Into the depths of a fanatical part of Islam.

12th Imans 'want' the end of the world, or society to collapse. It's some kind of 2nd coming thing (sorry, thin on details). However, Ahmadinajad has prayed openly for the power to bring that sitation to reality. And I'm not all that certain if he cares if he dies trying.

Imagine;

Iran nukes Israel
If the rumors are true, Israel and America nuke Iran
Russia is Irans ally, they nuke Israel and America
We nuke Russia.

What's to keep the dominoes from falling some more?

Pakistan and India nuke each other

I know it's far fetched, but neither you nor I are religious fanatics that thinks heaven awaits if we bring death to billions.

That might be why the Arabs are ok with the US or Israel taking out Irans nukes, Sunni Muslims think the whole 12th Imam thing is bullshit and they do not believe in it.

Hmm.

It's not what they beleive, it's what ahmadinaja believes. Just b/c it's lunacy, doesn't mean the lunatic won't push the button and get "almost" what he wants.

I served during the Cold War. Russian subs sucked compared to ours. Thier sonar and radar we about 8-10 years behind us. So most of us felt that if it ever went hot, it would go nuclear for Russia to have a chance to win.

But there was always tiny things that we caught each other doing, that could have been taken as an act of war, but were mostly ignored. [call me in 70 years and I'll tell you about a couple] They were ignored b/c Russians don't go to heaven if they commit suicide killing infedels.

12th Imams do.

So anything can be used as an excuse to end society as we know it.

 

[High_Gravity]

That might be why the Arabs are ok with the US or Israel taking out Irans nukes, Sunni Muslims think the whole 12th Imam thing is bullshit and they do not believe in it.

Hmm.

It's not what they beleive, it's what ahmadinaja believes. Just b/c it's lunacy, doesn't mean the lunatic won't push the button and get "almost" what he wants.

I served during the Cold War. Russian subs sucked compared to ours. Thier sonar and radar we about 8-10 years behind us. So most of us felt that if it ever went hot, it would go nuclear for Russia to have a chance to win.

But there was always tiny things that we caught each other doing, that could have been taken as an act of war, but were mostly ignored. [call me in 70 years and I'll tell you about a couple] They were ignored b/c Russians don't go to heaven if they commit suicide killing infedels.

12th Imams do.

So anything can be used as an excuse to end society as we know it.

The thing is if Ahmadinjad acts stupid and wants to throw around nukes all of the free world will rain nukes on that country until theres nothing left, I think the idiot knows that. Iran just wants nukes so they can bully people around and gain leverage in the region like North Korea did.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Hmm.

It's not what they beleive, it's what ahmadinaja believes. Just b/c it's lunacy, doesn't mean the lunatic won't push the button and get "almost" what he wants.

I served during the Cold War. Russian subs sucked compared to ours. Thier sonar and radar we about 8-10 years behind us. So most of us felt that if it ever went hot, it would go nuclear for Russia to have a chance to win.

But there was always tiny things that we caught each other doing, that could have been taken as an act of war, but were mostly ignored. [call me in 70 years and I'll tell you about a couple] They were ignored b/c Russians don't go to heaven if they commit suicide killing infedels.

12th Imams do.

So anything can be used as an excuse to end society as we know it.

The thing is if Ahmadinjad acts stupid and wants to throw around nukes all of the free world will rain nukes on that country until theres nothing left, I think the idiot knows that. Iran just wants nukes so they can bully people around and gain leverage in the region like North Korea did.

I agree, that's why "Iran" wants them.

Do you think Ahmadinajad's handlers can keep him from going ahead and sending all of Iran to heaven?

[off topic. do you know what's up with the 72 virgins thing? Is that bs, or actual part of the faith?]

 

[High_Gravity]

The thing is if Ahmadinjad acts stupid and wants to throw around nukes all of the free world will rain nukes on that country until theres nothing left, I think the idiot knows that. Iran just wants nukes so they can bully people around and gain leverage in the region like North Korea did.

I agree, that's why "Iran" wants them.

Do you think Ahmadinajad's handlers can keep him from going ahead and sending all of Iran to heaven?

[off topic. do you know what's up with the 72 virgins thing? Is that bs, or actual part of the faith?]

Ahmadinjad really doesn't run the country, the religious clergy does, Ayalotallah Khameini is the real guy running that show. Ahmadinijad is just a puppet and face for the regime, Iran does have elections for a President but that President falls in line behind the religious theocracy. The Revolutionary Guard report directly to the Ayatollah, not Ahmadinjad. If he does not follow what they want him to, the Ayatollahs will slap the shit out of him. It all depends on what the religious figures in Iran want to do. As far as the 72 virgin thing I believe it is indeed in the Holy Quran, I myself would prefer 72 strippers, would be alot more fun. Virgins are over rated.

 

[Two Thumbs]

I agree, that's why "Iran" wants them.

Do you think Ahmadinajad's handlers can keep him from going ahead and sending all of Iran to heaven?

[off topic. do you know what's up with the 72 virgins thing? Is that bs, or actual part of the faith?]

Ahmadinjad really doesn't run the country, the religious clergy does, Ayalotallah Khameini is the real guy running that show. Ahmadinijad is just a puppet and face for the regime, Iran does have elections for a President but that President falls in line behind the religious theocracy. The Revolutionary Guard report directly to the Ayatollah, not Ahmadinjad. If he does not follow what they want him to, the Ayatollahs will slap the shit out of him. It all depends on what the religious figures in Iran want to do. As far as the 72 virgin thing I believe it is indeed in the Holy Quran, I myself would prefer 72 strippers, would be alot more fun. Virgins are over rated.

Good to know. So as long as the Ayatollah isn't a 12th Iman, were good. And those guys serve for life?


I'd have to have someone to cook and clean, so 70 strippers, and 2 virgins. I could convert to whatever religion that is.

 

[antagon]

Seems like we are in a catch-22.

We can't afford or support another war.
We, or anyone, wants a nuclear Iran.
No else will do anyting.
Everyone wants us to do it.
If we did go in before hand, we had better have a better reason than just b/c we didn't want them to have the bomb.

Oh well, looks like the people with the most to lose will have to do something. Too bad only Israel has the balls, but w/o our backing they will be hung out to dry. So now they won't make a move.

So Iran gets the bomb. since Ahmadinnerjacket is a 12th Iman, how many millions do you think will die?

this is a catch 22 indeed. i think we've blown our wad with regard to ours and our allies interest in an open conflict. we could destabilize iran, but that wont stop them at this juncture. i think the best bet is to treat them with some condescension in the nuclear bit. eventually they will acquire the capability, and then it will be up to them to be big boys and use it maturely.

all the bullshit goes out the window in the nuclear league. after they test a weapon, they'll be in the crosshairs of 500+ warheads. iran does not have the benefit of sympathy in the event of a nuclear counterstrike. as they stand now, i think they would have such sympathy if the US invaded another muslim country.

True, but I think this goes deeper. Into the depths of a fanatical part of Islam.

12th Imans 'want' the end of the world, or society to collapse. It's some kind of 2nd coming thing (sorry, thin on details). However, Ahmadinajad has prayed openly for the power to bring that sitation to reality. And I'm not all that certain if he cares if he dies trying.

Imagine;

Iran nukes Israel
If the rumors are true, Israel and America nuke Iran
Russia is Irans ally, they nuke Israel and America
We nuke Russia.

What's to keep the dominoes from falling some more?

Pakistan and India nuke each other

I know it's far fetched, but neither you nor I are religious fanatics that thinks heaven awaits if we bring death to billions.

this is far-fetched, but having grown up in the 80s, it would seem a lot more grounded in reality than some cock and bull story about a flinging planes in to buildings if you'd told me that on september 10, 2001.

you'd always have to watch out for the wildcard effect.

russia wont lift a finger for iran, IMO. that is not an alliance. russia is simply more neutral about iran's behavior than we are. you have to bear in mind that the US has been keeping americans ready for action against iran since the shah fell and part of that is having the sort of relationship that we've maintained. there's a long way between that and being an ally. there is a lot left on the table in terms of trade by taking the position that the US has with regard to iran, and russia is among nations which have no qualm with picking that action up.

 

[georgephillip]

NYT: Arab allies urged U.S. to strike Iran - World news - The New York Times - msnbc.com
By David E. Sanger, James Glanz and Jo Becker
The New York Times
updated 11/28/2010 317 PM ET 2010-11-28T2017

I've been glancing at this crap on and off most of the day.

In late May 2009, Israel’s defense minister, Ehud Barak, used a visit from a Congressional delegation to send a pointed message to the new American president.

In a secret cable sent back to Washington, the American ambassador to Israel, James B. Cunningham, reported that Mr. Barak had argued that the world had 6 to 18 months “in which stopping Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons might still be viable.” After that, Mr. Barak said, “any military solution would result in unacceptable collateral damage.”




His plea was shared by many of America’s Arab allies, including the powerful King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, who according to another cable repeatedly implored Washington to “cut off the head of the snake” while there was still time.




I been thinking and thinking; Why oh why don't THEY work together and go to war with Iran themselves?

Are these "people" so selfish that they want Americans to die in thier stead?
Are they all a bunch of cowards?

How can Arabs and Jews agree that Iran needs to be crushed, but won't do anything?

I've never been a fan of Israel and could care less about our Arab allies, but that would take effort. But I don't see why we keep supporting them when they want us to die to do thier dirty work?

One reason rich Arab dictators don't go to war with Iran was recently answered by Noam Chomsky:

"Commenting on the revelations that several Arab leaders are urging the United States to attack Iran, Chomsky says, 'latest polls show] Arab opinion holds that the major threat in the region is Israel, that's 80 percent; the second threat is the United States, that's 77 percent. Iran is listed as a threat by 10 percent,' Chomsky says.

"'This may not be reported in the newspapers, but it's certainly familiar to the Israeli and U.S. governments and the ambassadors.

"'What this reveals is the profound hatred for democracy on the part of our political leadership.'"

The rich Arabs and rich Jews aren't going to war against Iran because 80% of all Arabs will rise up against that war.

Wiki reveals...

 

[Two Thumbs]

Thanks all.

As much as I kinda hate this saying,

Lets hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

the best being the Arabs handle it themselves, the worst [hopefully] a nuclear Iran that just blusters.

 

[oldercat]

Fact is - -the plan is for the US to have permanent bases in the middle east and obviously the best spots are where the biggest trouble makers reside. The Global economy requires a stable supply of oil and profits for the nations in that region.

 

[georgephillip]

Fact is - -the plan is for the US to have permanent bases in the middle east and obviously the best spots are where the biggest trouble makers reside. The Global economy requires a stable supply of oil and profits for the nations in that region.

Between 77% and 80% of all Arabs living in the Middle East regard the US and Israel as the biggest "trouble makers."

"The Brookings Institute just a few months ago released extensive polls of what Arabs think about Iran. The results are rather striking.

"They show the Arab opinion holds that the major threat in the region is Israel- that’s 80.

"The second major threat is the United States- that’s 77.

"Iran is listed as a threat by 10%.

"With regard to nuclear weapons, rather remarkably, a majority- in fact, 57–say that the region would have a positive effect in the region if Iran had nuclear weapons."

Noam Chomsky - Wiki

 

[High_Gravity]

Fact is - -the plan is for the US to have permanent bases in the middle east and obviously the best spots are where the biggest trouble makers reside. The Global economy requires a stable supply of oil and profits for the nations in that region.

Between 77% and 80% of all Arabs living in the Middle East regard the US and Israel as the biggest "trouble makers."

"The Brookings Institute just a few months ago released extensive polls of what Arabs think about Iran. The results are rather striking.

"They show the Arab opinion holds that the major threat in the region is Israel- that’s 80.

"The second major threat is the United States- that’s 77.

"Iran is listed as a threat by 10%.

"With regard to nuclear weapons, rather remarkably, a majority- in fact, 57–say that the region would have a positive effect in the region if Iran had nuclear weapons."

Noam Chomsky - Wiki

The regular Arabs on the street think that US and Israel are their biggest threats but their governments are thinking otherwise, if they believed that they would not be trying to make a deal for US and Israel to strike Irans nuclear facilities.

 

[High_Gravity]

Ahmadinjad really doesn't run the country, the religious clergy does, Ayalotallah Khameini is the real guy running that show. Ahmadinijad is just a puppet and face for the regime, Iran does have elections for a President but that President falls in line behind the religious theocracy. The Revolutionary Guard report directly to the Ayatollah, not Ahmadinjad. If he does not follow what they want him to, the Ayatollahs will slap the shit out of him. It all depends on what the religious figures in Iran want to do. As far as the 72 virgin thing I believe it is indeed in the Holy Quran, I myself would prefer 72 strippers, would be alot more fun. Virgins are over rated.

Good to know. So as long as the Ayatollah isn't a 12th Iman, were good. And those guys serve for life?


I'd have to have someone to cook and clean, so 70 strippers, and 2 virgins. I could convert to whatever religion that is.

Ayatollah's usually serve for life, the Ayatollah Khomeini served until he died and this Ayatollah Khameini has been his replacement ever since than, I think they usually serve until death or until their health gets bad enough to get a replacement. I think 70 strippers and 2 Chinese Chefs would do the trick, sign me up for whatever religion has that.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Fact is - -the plan is for the US to have permanent bases in the middle east and obviously the best spots are where the biggest trouble makers reside. The Global economy requires a stable supply of oil and profits for the nations in that region.

Between 77% and 80% of all Arabs living in the Middle East regard the US and Israel as the biggest "trouble makers."

"The Brookings Institute just a few months ago released extensive polls of what Arabs think about Iran. The results are rather striking.

"They show the Arab opinion holds that the major threat in the region is Israel- that’s 80.

"The second major threat is the United States- that’s 77.

"Iran is listed as a threat by 10%.

"With regard to nuclear weapons, rather remarkably, a majority- in fact, 57–say that the region would have a positive effect in the region if Iran had nuclear weapons."

Noam Chomsky - Wiki

The regular Arabs on the street think that US and Israel are their biggest threats but their governments are thinking otherwise, if they believed that they would not be trying to make a deal for US and Israel to strike Irans nuclear facilities.

They could play it off as "The enemy of my enemy is my freind". And claim they were getting infedels killed by using The Great Satan. And as soon as they are re-elected, or the hoopla has died down, put out thier hands for more of our money.

 

[High_Gravity]

Between 77% and 80% of all Arabs living in the Middle East regard the US and Israel as the biggest "trouble makers."

"The Brookings Institute just a few months ago released extensive polls of what Arabs think about Iran. The results are rather striking.

"They show the Arab opinion holds that the major threat in the region is Israel- that’s 80.

"The second major threat is the United States- that’s 77.

"Iran is listed as a threat by 10%.

"With regard to nuclear weapons, rather remarkably, a majority- in fact, 57–say that the region would have a positive effect in the region if Iran had nuclear weapons."

Noam Chomsky - Wiki

The regular Arabs on the street think that US and Israel are their biggest threats but their governments are thinking otherwise, if they believed that they would not be trying to make a deal for US and Israel to strike Irans nuclear facilities.

They could play it off as "The enemy of my enemy is my freind". And claim they were getting infedels killed by using The Great Satan. And as soon as they are re-elected, or the hoopla has died down, put out thier hands for more of our money.

The situation in the Arab world is very strange, the regular Arabs on the street seem to hate Americans with a passion but their government love doing business with us. In Iran, the government hates America but alot of Persians love America and want to come here, the biggest population of Iranians outside of Iran is in California.