Wikileak'd video shows eager-to-kill troops firing on Reuters reporters and children

[geauxtohell]

Again the pilots fired because they had cause

We've been asking for the cause for firing on the van and nobody has provided any.

What did the 15-6 say?

 

[geauxtohell]

State the exact time you see anyone getting out of the van with a weapon. You are also ignoring the fact that after the apaches opened fire they did not receive any return fire and neither did the ground unit. There is no reasonable explanation why the apaches kept firing after the first time. They did it because they could. Period.

As you cling to your asinine, and wrong, position that a unit has to be taking fire before they can engage...............

Quote the post where I said a unit "has to be taking fire" before they can engage. This oughta be fun.....

The civilians were milling around in a very casual manner without taking defensive or offensive positions. Had this been a situation where there was a firefight I would agree with your views but it's obvious these pilots were saturated with a desire to shoot regardless of the facts or ROE.

One way to engage this group would have been to fire warning shots around them on the ground. Had they been the enemy they would have responded with force. With ground forces approaching there were reasonable ways to handle it without outright murder.

I didn't ask that. I asked for you to show where our troops were engaged. It's also pretty damn difficult to mistake a camera for an rpg considering the obvious difference in lengths. Even if he thought it was an rpg what actions were taken by the civilians that created a threat?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2192025-post194.html

You'll continue to play your silly semantics games. It's clear that you think, short of the helicopters or soldiers being engaged first, that there was no justification to fire. As has been pointed out to you, numerous times, that is not, and has never been, a requirement for engagement. You'll continue to ignore it, but the precedent you want to create puts our soldiers in un-necessary danger. You can continue to piss and moan about this shit, I could care less. I am just glad you are not in a position to make any actual decisions.

BTW, if you think any insurgent with 1/2 a brain is going to engage an apache (that is probably 1.5 kilometers away), you are a real dumb ****. Further proof that you don't know shit about how it works on the ground.


On that now, and just for fun, here are you claims of having been in "similar situations", which we know now is utter bullshit.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2192005-post192.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/2193165-post224.html

Finally, I am still laughing my ass off about "warning shots".

 

[CurveLight]

Having problems with comprehension?

The proof is the video itself you stupid shit.

That must be why credible sources are reporting on it. Shiggles! That hasn't happened.

Where did jawa get the video? The saddest part of that question is you can't answer without research because you didn't even ask yourself that fundamental question.

HeyZEUS you are one stupid shit.

Jawa just looked at the exact same video that was posted and said "Hey, anyone notice the timecode discrepancy yet?"

What is this...3 posts...4? Showing that you are too dumb to accept the evidence that Wiki itself posted.

But go ahead denying that a discrepancy exists...just makes you look dumber and dumber by the post. Either that or you realize that the evidence is undeniable, so you just choose to completely ignore it.

Your choice. Either you are stupid, or you are just flat out ignoring it.

I'm voting for a combination of both.

Finally! Okay, my apologies for my misunderstanding. There are some problems with the claim. Gawker says 30 minutes is missing while jawa says 20. While I've tried I cannot clearly see the time stamp on the video. How does this system work? Is it Zulu? Mission? Looped? Jawa is claiming the segment was purposefully edited but with no evidence. From all available evidence the 38 minute version is all the contents leaked from the Pentagon so wiki has not edited. Jawa plucks a sworn statement and claims that was cut out from the video....but has absolutely no evidence the statement fits with the missing 20 minutes....if 20 minutes is actually missing. Jawa is a fuxxing joke of a source.....it's the extreme Right version of prison planet and is clearly partisan driven. These bozos make claims without anything to back it up.

Unfortunately the constant harping of "edited" versions all send the same message: your ilk is looking for justification because if what the available video shows exonerates the pilots then an edited version would be irrelevant. You can't have it both ways. You know the video shows an abuse of power and that is why you guys are desperately searching for different versions.

Unlike you, I admit my errors and rely on valid information so no wonder you are constantly whining about me. Maybe one day you too can learn to admit mistakes.....but I doubt it.

 

[CurveLight]

As you cling to your asinine, and wrong, position that a unit has to be taking fire before they can engage...............

Quote the post where I said a unit "has to be taking fire" before they can engage. This oughta be fun.....

The civilians were milling around in a very casual manner without taking defensive or offensive positions. Had this been a situation where there was a firefight I would agree with your views but it's obvious these pilots were saturated with a desire to shoot regardless of the facts or ROE.

One way to engage this group would have been to fire warning shots around them on the ground. Had they been the enemy they would have responded with force. With ground forces approaching there were reasonable ways to handle it without outright murder.

I didn't ask that. I asked for you to show where our troops were engaged. It's also pretty damn difficult to mistake a camera for an rpg considering the obvious difference in lengths. Even if he thought it was an rpg what actions were taken by the civilians that created a threat?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2192025-post194.html

You'll continue to play your silly semantics games. It's clear that you think, short of the helicopters or soldiers being engaged first, that there was no justification to fire. As has been pointed out to you, numerous times, that is not, and has never been, a requirement for engagement. You'll continue to ignore it, but the precedent you want to create puts our soldiers in un-necessary danger. You can continue to piss and moan about this shit, I could care less. I am just glad you are not in a position to make any actual decisions.

BTW, if you think any insurgent with 1/2 a brain is going to engage an apache (that is probably 1.5 kilometers away), you are a real dumb ****. Further proof that you don't know shit about how it works on the ground.


On that now, and just for fun, here are you claims of having been in "similar situations", which we know now is utter bullshit.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2192005-post192.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/2193165-post224.html

Finally, I am still laughing my ass off about "warning shots".

Even when you cannot prove your claim you pretend to. What the fuk is wrong with ***** like you? Obviously you put words in others mouths because you aren't bright enough for an honest debate. And you ignore facts you do not like. I already posted a link proving the apache gun can and has been used specifically to fire warning shots but you go on living in denial *****.

 

[EFoxwell]

Sorry, but that looked to me like a successful engagement of insurgents. It sucks that the reporter was killed and it sucks even worse that they were trying to remove bodies and weapons in a hot zone with kids in the car. But when you bring your kids to war, what do you expect?

I feel for the guys that had to pull the trigger. They laughed in the video, but keep in mind where their adrenaline level was at that moment. They were pumped up. They have to be to pull the trigger. The problems start when they come down. I feel for these guys for they had to do. It is despicable, yes, but necessary.

BTW, I bet that douchenozzle armchair warrior in your video has the high score on Call of Duty 4.

Agreed. I love how people have totally turned on soldiers who fight an enemy that wears no uniform. It isn't pretty, but it is life.

 

[CurveLight]

Sorry, but that looked to me like a successful engagement of insurgents. It sucks that the reporter was killed and it sucks even worse that they were trying to remove bodies and weapons in a hot zone with kids in the car. But when you bring your kids to war, what do you expect?

I feel for the guys that had to pull the trigger. They laughed in the video, but keep in mind where their adrenaline level was at that moment. They were pumped up. They have to be to pull the trigger. The problems start when they come down. I feel for these guys for they had to do. It is despicable, yes, but necessary.

BTW, I bet that douchenozzle armchair warrior in your video has the high score on Call of Duty 4.

Agreed. I love how people have totally turned on soldiers who fight an enemy that wears no uniform. It isn't pretty, but it is life.

Since when did valid criticism become "turning" on Soldiers? You partisan fuks are absurd.

 

[geauxtohell]

Even when you cannot prove your claim you pretend to. What the fuk is wrong with ***** like you?

So, you don't claim the ROE was violated here? You are a professional message board fence sitter, so I operated off the assumption that you felt rules had been violated here because the men that were engaged hadn't opened fire.

Clarification on your part, por favor.

Obviously you put words in others mouths because you aren't bright enough for an honest debate.

Ironic. I already caught you doing that, and called you out on it, and it was much more blatant than anything you've attributed to me.

And you ignore facts you do not like. I already posted a link proving the apache gun can and has been used specifically to fire warning shots but you go on living in denial *****.

If you can find doctrine that supports that the Apache 30 mm cannon is authorized for "warning shots" by American pilots, I'll change my tune. A single anecdote from a different Army isn't exactly conclusive proof that your Monday morning quarterback option was a viable option.

 

[CurveLight]

Even when you cannot prove your claim you pretend to. What the fuk is wrong with ***** like you?

So, you don't claim the ROE was violated here? You are a professional message board fence sitter, so I operated off the assumption that you felt rules had been violated here because the men that were engaged hadn't opened fire.

Clarification on your part, por favor.

Obviously you put words in others mouths because you aren't bright enough for an honest debate.

Ironic. I already caught you doing that, and called you out on it, and it was much more blatant than anything you've attributed to me.

And you ignore facts you do not like. I already posted a link proving the apache gun can and has been used specifically to fire warning shots but you go on living in denial *****.

If you can find doctrine that supports that the Apache 30 mm cannon is authorized for "warning shots" by American pilots, I'll change my tune. A single anecdote from a different Army isn't exactly conclusive proof that your Monday morning quarterback option was a viable option.

I've made my position clear from the beginning and it isn't my responsibility to keep track of what you read. Either stop making assumptions and false accusations or read.

So after I show it is realistic to fire warning shots from the apache you now want "Doctrine?" Rotfl....do you have any fuxxing clue about military life? Hell, even if I wasted the time looking for a specific doctrine you'd try to dismiss it by claiming it is inaccurate because one of the editors had too much pocket lint. Face it jackass, you tried to claim it was a silly or laughable idea of using the apache gun to fire warning shots and after I prove it has been used in that specific manner in an actual battle you ignore it because you're too fuxxing immature to admit when you are wrong.

 

[geauxtohell]

I've made my position clear from the beginning and it isn't my responsibility to keep track of what you read. Either stop making assumptions and false accusations or read.

Like I said, you like to play semantics games on here and then cry foul when someone "misrepresents" you. Your refusal to answer a simple question only affirms that.

It also prevents you from being put into a corner because you and I both know that the ROE wasn't violated here and the pilots committed no criminal or negligent act.

Upon reaching that conclusion, we are basically left with the fact that you disapprove of what they did. Well whoop-de-******* doo. Your complaint is noted and is valued for what it is worth.

So after I show it is realistic to fire warning shots from the apache you now want "Doctrine?" Rotfl....do you have any fuxxing clue about military life?

Yeah, the military I was in conducted operations to standards and doctrines that were in all those field manuals that you probably never read.

The whining from you here is too funny. You know as well as I that I never stated an Apache main gun couldn't (as in physically impossible) fire warning shots. I stated we don't use it to do that, because it is ******* stupid considering that it is an area-kill weapon.

Hell, even if I wasted the time looking for a specific doctrine you'd try to dismiss it by claiming it is inaccurate because one of the editors had too much pocket lint.

You can't really argue with official military doctrine.

Face it jackass, you tried to claim it was a silly or laughable idea of using the apache gun to fire warning shots and after I prove it has been used in that specific manner in an actual battle you ignore it because you're too fuxxing immature to admit when you are wrong.

It is laughable.

Most of your perceptions and claims on what should go on outside of the wire have been laughable. Of course, I'd expect nothing less from such a fine rear echelon mother-****** like yourself. You are worse than the people who have never deployed, because you think you know something.

You don't know shit.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

warning shots from a 30mm cannon.....typical left wing loon garbage. When you're engaging a heavily armed enemy you shoot to kill....if they move after you've shot them...shoot them again until they stop moving.

 

[Kalam]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

warning shots from a 30mm cannon.....typical left wing loon garbage. When you're engaging a heavily armed enemy you shoot to kill

I didn't see any engagement until the Crusaders opted to fire on non-threatening targets. Also, since when does carrying around a decades-old rifle in a war zone constitute being "heavily armed"? Seen many helicopters taken down by small arms fire, chief?

 

[Gadawg73]

excellent shooting by the extremely professional warrant officer pilot and weapo prevented any return fire....plus....when you're in a free fire zone anything that moves is subjected to come under fire for cause as determined by the pilot and the weapo....they are outstanding shots by the way....as evidenced by the plethora of body parts strewn over the field of battle. War sucks...especially when you are on the losing side.

nothing any 12 yr old idiot child raised on video games couldn't do

This comment speaks volumes about you and your ilk.

My exact thoughts also when I saw that.
I always sit these out until after all of the 4th string rec league QBing comments come out.
Tactics are taught and mastered but the root skill first reaction in all of our combat troops is Kill or Be Killed. When the other guy has the same thing on his mind WTF is wrong with our guys being first on the trigger? Friendlies, civies getting shot when it is on rock and roll?
In a shooting war it is going to happen sooner or later. It is part of it.
I am damn proud to live in a country where some young person goes ten thousand miles away and has the courage to do it.
Next time you others are quick to judge remember these soldiers have families and are real people. You are always scared shitless when it starts. These soldiers are no different.

 

[CurveLight]

I've made my position clear from the beginning and it isn't my responsibility to keep track of what you read. Either stop making assumptions and false accusations or read.

Like I said, you like to play semantics games on here and then cry foul when someone "misrepresents" you. Your refusal to answer a simple question only affirms that.

It also prevents you from being put into a corner because you and I both know that the ROE wasn't violated here and the pilots committed no criminal or negligent act.

Upon reaching that conclusion, we are basically left with the fact that you disapprove of what they did. Well whoop-de-******* doo. Your complaint is noted and is valued for what it is worth.

So after I show it is realistic to fire warning shots from the apache you now want "Doctrine?" Rotfl....do you have any fuxxing clue about military life?

Yeah, the military I was in conducted operations to standards and doctrines that were in all those field manuals that you probably never read.

The whining from you here is too funny. You know as well as I that I never stated an Apache main gun couldn't (as in physically impossible) fire warning shots. I stated we don't use it to do that, because it is ******* stupid considering that it is an area-kill weapon.

Hell, even if I wasted the time looking for a specific doctrine you'd try to dismiss it by claiming it is inaccurate because one of the editors had too much pocket lint.

You can't really argue with official military doctrine.

Face it jackass, you tried to claim it was a silly or laughable idea of using the apache gun to fire warning shots and after I prove it has been used in that specific manner in an actual battle you ignore it because you're too fuxxing immature to admit when you are wrong.

It is laughable.

Most of your perceptions and claims on what should go on outside of the wire have been laughable. Of course, I'd expect nothing less from such a fine rear echelon mother-****** like yourself. You are worse than the people who have never deployed, because you think you know something.

You don't know shit.

You didn't say it was impossible but you made it clear you thought it was not possible:

P225
"Again. Tell me you are ******* kidding.

The main gun on an Apache is an AREA-KILL weapon. You don't fire "warning shots" with a belt fed weapon."

P321
"I couldn't think of a worse weapon to fire "warning shots" with."


Like I said, even after i've proven not only is it legit but actually done you do nothing but prance around like a little queen when you've been proven wrong.

 

[CurveLight]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

warning shots from a 30mm cannon.....typical left wing loon garbage. When you're engaging a heavily armed enemy you shoot to kill....if they move after you've shot them...shoot them again until they stop moving.

It gets done with the 30mm you dumfuk.

 

[CurveLight]

nothing any 12 yr old idiot child raised on video games couldn't do

This comment speaks volumes about you and your ilk.

My exact thoughts also when I saw that.
I always sit these out until after all of the 4th string rec league QBing comments come out.
Tactics are taught and mastered but the root skill first reaction in all of our combat troops is Kill or Be Killed. When the other guy has the same thing on his mind WTF is wrong with our guys being first on the trigger? Friendlies, civies getting shot when it is on rock and roll?
In a shooting war it is going to happen sooner or later. It is part of it.
I am damn proud to live in a country where some young person goes ten thousand miles away and has the courage to do it.
Next time you others are quick to judge remember these soldiers have families and are real people. You are always scared shitless when it starts. These soldiers are no different.

Did you watch the video at all?

 

[eots]

nothing any 12 yr old idiot child raised on video games couldn't do

This comment speaks volumes about you and your ilk.

My exact thoughts also when I saw that.
I always sit these out until after all of the 4th string rec league QBing comments come out.
Tactics are taught and mastered but the root skill first reaction in all of our combat troops is Kill or Be Killed. When the other guy has the same thing on his mind WTF is wrong with our guys being first on the trigger? Friendlies, civies getting shot when it is on rock and roll?
In a shooting war it is going to happen sooner or later. It is part of it.
I am damn proud to live in a country where some young person goes ten thousand miles away and has the courage to do it.
Next time you others are quick to judge remember these soldiers have families and are real people. You are always scared shitless when it starts. These soldiers are no different.

Yes indeed I feel for both the soldiers and the families and the years of anguish they will suffer as a result of experiences such as these ,they also are victims

 

[CurveLight]

This comment speaks volumes about you and your ilk.

My exact thoughts also when I saw that.
I always sit these out until after all of the 4th string rec league QBing comments come out.
Tactics are taught and mastered but the root skill first reaction in all of our combat troops is Kill or Be Killed. When the other guy has the same thing on his mind WTF is wrong with our guys being first on the trigger? Friendlies, civies getting shot when it is on rock and roll?
In a shooting war it is going to happen sooner or later. It is part of it.
I am damn proud to live in a country where some young person goes ten thousand miles away and has the courage to do it.
Next time you others are quick to judge remember these soldiers have families and are real people. You are always scared shitless when it starts. These soldiers are no different.

Yes indeed I feel for both the soldiers and the families and the years of anguish they will suffer as a result of experiences such as these ,they also are victims

While I stand by what I said earlier about them being prosecuted I am torn in how to approach solutions overall. They did not follow the EOF within the ROE and this was not in a split second firefight like Haditha. Anyone who has been in a combat zone can recognize stress levels in communications and these guys were not stressed. They were not in a "kill or be killed" situation and the ground unit they were flying cover for were not under fire.

They did not make a positive enemy ID. Early on we hear a pilot ask if there are any of our guys in that area and that was the deciding factor. Why? Because in that environment you can't tell who is enemy or friendly which is why the EOF in ROE needs the upmost respect. There were Iraqi cops close enough to take the kids to the hospital and the ground unit was not on a time sensitive mission. This was a patrol that got way out of hand and we can't keep excusing this behavior based on them being sent.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

warning shots from a 30mm cannon.....typical left wing loon garbage. When you're engaging a heavily armed enemy you shoot to kill....if they move after you've shot them...shoot them again until they stop moving.

It gets done with the 30mm you dumfuk.

Wrong dumb ass *****....those are exploding rounds filled with anti personnel shrapnel or specifically designed to fragment into many pieces to KILL ANYTHING within a certain range...that's why in the video you see a round hit about 5 feet away from the heavily armed terrorist and he dropped like a sack of potatos...more than likely caused by his head intercepting a large piece of lead....

What were they supposed to do when they fired a warning shot...shoot into a house a few blocks away?

The more you post...the stupider everyone thinks you are....just shut up until you come back into reality.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

warning shots from a 30mm cannon.....typical left wing loon garbage. When you're engaging a heavily armed enemy you shoot to kill....if they move after you've shot them...shoot them again until they stop moving.

It gets done with the 30mm you dumfuk.

Wrong dumb ass *****....those are exploding rounds filled with anti personnel shrapnel or specifically designed to fragment into many pieces to KILL ANYTHING within a certain range...that's why in the video you see a round hit about 5 feet away from the heavily armed terrorist and he dropped like a sack of potatos...more than likely caused by his head intercepting a large piece of lead....

What were they supposed to do when they fired a warning shot...shoot into a house a few blocks away?

The more you post...the stupider everyone thinks you are....just shut up until you come back into reality.

I am a bit tired right now , but for some reason I just can't think of any reason these pilots would have wanted to fire a warning shot? So the insurgents could take cover? WTF.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

It gets done with the 30mm you dumfuk.

Wrong dumb ass *****....those are exploding rounds filled with anti personnel shrapnel or specifically designed to fragment into many pieces to KILL ANYTHING within a certain range...that's why in the video you see a round hit about 5 feet away from the heavily armed terrorist and he dropped like a sack of potatos...more than likely caused by his head intercepting a large piece of lead....

What were they supposed to do when they fired a warning shot...shoot into a house a few blocks away?

The more you post...the stupider everyone thinks you are....just shut up until you come back into reality.

I am a bit tired right now , but for some reason I just can't think of any reason these pilots would have wanted to fire a warning shot? So the insurgents could take cover? WTF.

It's the new touchy feely military as envisioned by a stupid progressive....don't waste your time.