Why?

[Carla_Danger]

So should we blame ourselves?

Who do you think we should blame if not ourselves?

If we say there is no god then we much figure out how us humans, and us humans alone, should structure our world for continued survival, because it would seem we are not achieving that currently.

I guess we should have thought of that a long time ago. Right now there's trash in the ocean the size of Texas. Gawd's not doing any clean up.

You've been waiting on Gawd? See how lazy religion makes people?

Elephants in the wild will be dead in 10 years because of poaching . I don't think we should wait for Gawd to take care of that.

100 000 Elephants Killed by Poachers in Just Three Years Landmark Analysis Finds

​

One does not 'wait for god'. You go out and find him.

Do you mind cleaning up some of your trash before you go looking?

 

[RandomVariable]

So should we blame ourselves?

Who do you think we should blame if not ourselves?

If we say there is no god then we much figure out how us humans, and us humans alone, should structure our world for continued survival, because it would seem we are not achieving that currently.

I guess we should have thought of that a long time ago. Right now there's trash in the ocean the size of Texas. Gawd's not doing any clean up.

You've been waiting on Gawd? See how lazy religion makes people?

Elephants in the wild will be dead in 10 years because of poaching . I don't think we should wait for Gawd to take care of that.

100 000 Elephants Killed by Poachers in Just Three Years Landmark Analysis Finds

​

One does not 'wait for god'. You go out and find him.

Do you mind cleaning up some of your trash before you go looking?

Godless people do not pick up their trash.

 

[HUGGY]

Wow. Atheists are speechless when one presents a scenario without god. Strange how that works.

Atheists work in mysterious ways.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Who do you think we should blame if not ourselves?

If we say there is no god then we much figure out how us humans, and us humans alone, should structure our world for continued survival, because it would seem we are not achieving that currently.

I guess we should have thought of that a long time ago. Right now there's trash in the ocean the size of Texas. Gawd's not doing any clean up.

You've been waiting on Gawd? See how lazy religion makes people?

Elephants in the wild will be dead in 10 years because of poaching . I don't think we should wait for Gawd to take care of that.

100 000 Elephants Killed by Poachers in Just Three Years Landmark Analysis Finds

​

One does not 'wait for god'. You go out and find him.

Do you mind cleaning up some of your trash before you go looking?

Godless people do not pick up their trash.

Don't you hate being wrong about everything?

Atheists United Adopt-A-Highway Cleanup

 

[RandomVariable]

Wow. Atheists are speechless when one presents a scenario without god. Strange how that works.

Atheists work in mysterious ways.

I think it is that evolution thing. Doesn't work quite as well as creation.

 

[RandomVariable]

If we say there is no god then we much figure out how us humans, and us humans alone, should structure our world for continued survival, because it would seem we are not achieving that currently.

I guess we should have thought of that a long time ago. Right now there's trash in the ocean the size of Texas. Gawd's not doing any clean up.

You've been waiting on Gawd? See how lazy religion makes people?

Elephants in the wild will be dead in 10 years because of poaching . I don't think we should wait for Gawd to take care of that.

100 000 Elephants Killed by Poachers in Just Three Years Landmark Analysis Finds

​

One does not 'wait for god'. You go out and find him.

Do you mind cleaning up some of your trash before you go looking?

Godless people do not pick up their trash.

Don't you hate being wrong about everything?

Atheists United Adopt-A-Highway Cleanup

OK, some godless people do pick up their trash, and other's. God does not want people to litter in the first place.

 

[theword]

Why did that child have to die so horribly?

Why must humanity be its own worst enemy?

Why is such cruelty allowed not only to exist, but to thrive? ​

Should God be held accountable for the myriad of reasons to believe instead in raw, survival of the most fit Evolution on a dog-eat-dog world?

God is responsible for everything that happens since He's the Creator of everything, including what man perceives as good and evil.

 

[AVG-JOE]

So should we blame ourselves?

Blame ourselves for what? Being born in to a life with no guarantee of justice?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Why did that child have to die so horribly?

Why must humanity be its own worst enemy?

Why is such cruelty allowed not only to exist, but to thrive? ​

Should God be held accountable for the myriad of reasons to believe instead in raw, survival of the most fit Evolution on a dog-eat-dog world?

As the plethora of commandments show, people were doing bad things even when God gave his law to people. Don't have to forbid murder if no one's murdering. So I've always felt that God knew this is all happening, forbade it, but in not waving his magic wand to make it stop, gave us the option to choose obediance or disobediance.

If an all-powerful God forbids murder, and intervenes every time someone tries to murder, there's not much point in having the commandment against it. Or of a government and governmental laws. People just expect God to take care of everything. As a result, civilization stagnates as no one does anything leaving it all in God's hands. By giving us the choice of being good or evil, we have to do things for ourselves.

Just as a parent eventually trusts their children with more and more independence and autonomy eventually culminating in the child becomming an adult, if the parent taught them well they'll do fine. If the parent intervenes every time a child steps out of line and follows them around the result is a child who never became an adult. Might be adult-aged, but will have the mentality of a child.

So God allows injustice and unwarranted suffering to educate humanity?

I don't believe that. I can't. A god who uses injustice as a tool is worse than one that simply doesn't care.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The spirit world teaches that one of the main reasons we reincarnate is to get a fresh start without being able to remember past lives, I heard a spirit teacher say that if we could remember past lives and what we have done wrong it might drive us mad. But we are guided into life experience that will help settle karma from past actions.
We may have a hard life without knowing why but it might just be to strengthen the soul, or to teach us to have compassion for others. In the end we will reach enlightenment and finish our cycle of incarnations and at that time we will recall all past lives, as the memories are stored in the immortal spirit body.

"The spirit world teaches....."?

I'm gonna call bullshit right there... perhaps people with a self-proclaimed connection to something they self proclaim as 'spiritual' teach, but if you can prove that "The Spirit World" teaches, this conversation is rendered moot because you will have proof of The Divine.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Why must humanity be its own worst enemy?
​

Because we all want what we want right now, and dam anyone who tries to stop us from getting it.

Sounds like a scenario of survival of the most fit on a dog-eat-dog world to me...

________________

Know God, Know Justice / No God, No Justice​

So, humanity's historic lack of justice is proof that there no God?

`​

 

[AVG-JOE]

Perhaps we should hold judges who slaps a child molester on the wrist, lets him out, and then that child molester, kills a child, accountable, instead of blaming God. (Nah, that makes to much sense.)

Perhaps we should change the legal system, to incarcerate people involved in violent crimes for the absolute maximum penalty, with no chance of parole. (No then parole officers, and government, would not be able to make people pay their parole officer).

We put up with a lot of crap, and it's because we allow it to happen. Us, you and I and everyone else who lives in this country, and contries all over the world.

What about the judge who checks his campaign trust fund before rendering a decision between the tree-hugger and the corporate profiteer?

Why do we allow it to happen? There's gotta be something in it for the Monkey who has control over the decisions...

 

[RandomVariable]

So should we blame ourselves?

Blame ourselves for what? Being born in to a life with no guarantee of justice?

Blame ourselves for not coming to grips that we are born into a life with no guarantee of justice, if that is how we want to view it. Generally speaking there are three options: 1) continue doing what we are doing and hope things get better, 2) give up on all hope of an external justice and figure out how best to handle things in our own wisdom, or 3) turn to God and to His ways.

If you would like we can debate the merits of 1 but I believe there are some truths which are self evident. Things are not going well and not getting better is one.

2 states there is no hereafter and only the here and now. First of all 'thou shalt not kill' is a law of God not of man. In other words, who says we can not kill if not God? No one. Prison population is a problem that is only growing. If there is a problem with deciding who gets the death penalty then fix but we must start killing and must do it much more efficiently. Also the time people spend in prison makes no sense. Something more like a 'shock and release program' would work much better. Kind of like spanking for adults, just with a higher electricity bill. Also what to do with people who become or are born into the 47% group. There is no point in trying to bring anyone up and slavery does make sense if implemented wisely, according to man's laws. As I have mentioned sharia law actually provides an excellent blueprint for heaven on earth. If this planet is going to come to the conclusion that there is no god, or at least we need to govern ourselves as such, then some hard decisions are going to have to be made but we have only ourselves to blame if humanity is its own worst enemy and cruelty is allowed not only to exist, but to thrive.

3 states to turn to the God of Abraham for guidance on how we should conduct our lives. Now before you jump out of your chair with your computer in your arms thinking the Amish are coming to get you the laws of God are really quite simple. One should follow the ten commandments not just what is written but to the intent, do not let the hungry go unfed, the fatherless unclothed, and the widow without shelter, and that redemption is always possible. Today in this country, for example, we are a land of hypocrites. We pray to God and live like we worship the golden calf. Also maybe, just maybe, if we turned to God he would forgive us for our sins, which he would, and clean up our oceans and clear away the pollution from our skies. It would be nothing he could not do. For the land of hypocrites however he more likely has earthquakes and freak weather storms in mind.

 

[Dajjal]

The spirit world teaches that one of the main reasons we reincarnate is to get a fresh start without being able to remember past lives, I heard a spirit teacher say that if we could remember past lives and what we have done wrong it might drive us mad. But we are guided into life experience that will help settle karma from past actions.
We may have a hard life without knowing why but it might just be to strengthen the soul, or to teach us to have compassion for others. In the end we will reach enlightenment and finish our cycle of incarnations and at that time we will recall all past lives, as the memories are stored in the immortal spirit body.

"The spirit world teaches....."?

I'm gonna call bullshit right there... perhaps people with a self-proclaimed connection to something they self proclaim as 'spiritual' teach, but if you can prove that "The Spirit World" teaches, this conversation is rendered moot because you will have proof of The Divine.

I was referring to trance lectures given by the late Ursula Roberts, a spiritualist medium. She used to go into a trance and apparently a spirit calling himself Ramhadan spoke through her mouth. I attended many of her trance lectures during the 1970's and this is where I got most of my information.

 

[Carla_Danger]

So should we blame ourselves?

Blame ourselves for what? Being born in to a life with no guarantee of justice?

Blame ourselves for not coming to grips that we are born into a life with no guarantee of justice, if that is how we want to view it. Generally speaking there are three options: 1) continue doing what we are doing and hope things get better, 2) give up on all hope of an external justice and figure out how best to handle things in our own wisdom, or 3) turn to God and to His ways.

If you would like we can debate the merits of 1 but I believe there are some truths which are self evident. Things are not going well and not getting better is one.

2 states there is no hereafter and only the here and now. First of all 'thou shalt not kill' is a law of God not of man. In other words, who says we can not kill if not God? No one. Prison population is a problem that is only growing. If there is a problem with deciding who gets the death penalty then fix but we must start killing and must do it much more efficiently. Also the time people spend in prison makes no sense. Something more like a 'shock and release program' would work much better. Kind of like spanking for adults, just with a higher electricity bill. Also what to do with people who become or are born into the 47% group. There is no point in trying to bring anyone up and slavery does make sense if implemented wisely, according to man's laws. As I have mentioned sharia law actually provides an excellent blueprint for heaven on earth. If this planet is going to come to the conclusion that there is no god, or at least we need to govern ourselves as such, then some hard decisions are going to have to be made but we have only ourselves to blame if humanity is its own worst enemy and cruelty is allowed not only to exist, but to thrive.

3 states to turn to the God of Abraham for guidance on how we should conduct our lives. Now before you jump out of your chair with your computer in your arms thinking the Amish are coming to get you the laws of God are really quite simple. One should follow the ten commandments not just what is written but to the intent, do not let the hungry go unfed, the fatherless unclothed, and the widow without shelter, and that redemption is always possible. Today in this country, for example, we are a land of hypocrites. We pray to God and live like we worship the golden calf. Also maybe, just maybe, if we turned to God he would forgive us for our sins, which he would, and clean up our oceans and clear away the pollution from our skies. It would be nothing he could not do. For the land of hypocrites however he more likely has earthquakes and freak weather storms in mind.

I couldn't read all that jumbled mess of irrational blabber. Sorry.

 

[RandomVariable]

So should we blame ourselves?

Blame ourselves for what? Being born in to a life with no guarantee of justice?

Blame ourselves for not coming to grips that we are born into a life with no guarantee of justice, if that is how we want to view it. Generally speaking there are three options: 1) continue doing what we are doing and hope things get better, 2) give up on all hope of an external justice and figure out how best to handle things in our own wisdom, or 3) turn to God and to His ways.

If you would like we can debate the merits of 1 but I believe there are some truths which are self evident. Things are not going well and not getting better is one.

2 states there is no hereafter and only the here and now. First of all 'thou shalt not kill' is a law of God not of man. In other words, who says we can not kill if not God? No one. Prison population is a problem that is only growing. If there is a problem with deciding who gets the death penalty then fix but we must start killing and must do it much more efficiently. Also the time people spend in prison makes no sense. Something more like a 'shock and release program' would work much better. Kind of like spanking for adults, just with a higher electricity bill. Also what to do with people who become or are born into the 47% group. There is no point in trying to bring anyone up and slavery does make sense if implemented wisely, according to man's laws. As I have mentioned sharia law actually provides an excellent blueprint for heaven on earth. If this planet is going to come to the conclusion that there is no god, or at least we need to govern ourselves as such, then some hard decisions are going to have to be made but we have only ourselves to blame if humanity is its own worst enemy and cruelty is allowed not only to exist, but to thrive.

3 states to turn to the God of Abraham for guidance on how we should conduct our lives. Now before you jump out of your chair with your computer in your arms thinking the Amish are coming to get you the laws of God are really quite simple. One should follow the ten commandments not just what is written but to the intent, do not let the hungry go unfed, the fatherless unclothed, and the widow without shelter, and that redemption is always possible. Today in this country, for example, we are a land of hypocrites. We pray to God and live like we worship the golden calf. Also maybe, just maybe, if we turned to God he would forgive us for our sins, which he would, and clean up our oceans and clear away the pollution from our skies. It would be nothing he could not do. For the land of hypocrites however he more likely has earthquakes and freak weather storms in mind.

I couldn't read all that jumbled mess of irrational blabber. Sorry.

Don't worry about it.

 

[PratchettFan]

So should we blame ourselves?

Yes.

So the OP asked three questions:

Why did that child have to die so horribly?

Why must humanity be its own worst enemy?

Why is such cruelty allowed not only to exist, but to thrive?​

Let's skip the first one for brevity's sake. So humanity is its worst enemy. Then we must do something about that. Any suggestions? As far as allowing cruelty to exist, and thrive, it would seem drastic measures are needed.

If there is no god then we must look at the situation only in the here and now. In this sense it would seem sharia law makes sense. If someone is evil, kill them. Someone steals, cut off their hand. Without a god and without there being anything else but the here and now problems must be dealt with here and now.

Whether there is or is not a God does not matter. We are responsible for what we do. Pointing to some unknown being and blaming it for what we do, or what choices we have, is denying our responsibility.

If you are asking my for ultimate solutions, I can tell you I am responsible for anything I do but that does not make me God.