Why wouldn't Jesus...

[JQPublic1]

The social programs implemented by the government were done on the Democrats watch. And by the Christian application of their deeds, countless lives have been saved and many who had fallen could pick themselves up with a little government help. The individuals that "conservatives" and wannabees call liberals, socialists or communists followed the tenets of an altruistic philosophy that emerged far earlier than that of Karl Marx. Marx, it seems was not the father of communism at all. He was just rephrasing what Jesus said more than two millennia ago. How many of you " Christian conservatives" are squirming and sweating in your champagne now.

 

[JQPublic1]

I'm almost finished but not quite yet. In the context of this forum and my previous posts, I feel obligated to ask a question that should have been asked a long time ago: IS MITT ROMNEY THE ANTI-CHRIST?

An extremely wealthy man is an anathema to Christianity; and, Romney's past record implicates him in the evils of the material world! His unconcern for the poor and those less wealthy is evident in almost everything he says or does! Surely, if Satan came to earth in human form, he would come as someone like Romney! BTW Obama isn't rich enough to be the devil!

 

[Againsheila]

I can't answer those questions, no one really should think they could, even one who follows christianity.

However, there is one serious problem with this line of questions, you must first define what you consider "help". There is the line "give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime". I believe in that myself, when I was in the "system" (that's what we called it in the shelters) they always gave us plenty of food, shelter, medical care, etc. but all the organizations that were geared toward actually helping us with things like jobs, education, etc. lost funding so they could give us more free shit. It sucks when you want to get somewhere and every time you ask for something that actually helps they look at you like you're insane. All I needed was a computer, that was it, a simple up to date computer. I had to save up my meager cash hiding it well (living in a shelter nothing is safe) and wasn't allowed to save it in the bank or I would lose my income. Once I got a laptop, I was able to work again.

The problem with that saying is that today, in order to fish, you have to have a permit and you have a limit. Most of the lakes are stocked and they are limited and if you want to fish in the ocean, you need a different permit. Ditto for hunting, plus there are seasons, what are they suppose to eat the rest of the seasons?

Really, our society is designed to punish the poor, not to lift the up. Until we can fix that flaw, we need welfare. Plus, how about we do away with welfare for the rich and corporations? Thanks to tax incentives and loop holes there are rich people and corporations who are paying no taxes whatsoever. And corporations who get benefits in return for promises they never keep should be shut down and taken over by the state, and I'm including Intel here who many years ago got more than $40,000,000 in tax incentives to build a plant in Dupont that was suppose to provide 3000 jobs which never, ever materialized. I worked it out at the time and for that amount of money they could have paid everyone living in dupont mw for 3 years for doing NOTHING. Think of what could have been accomplished with that money if they'd given it to people to start businesses.

 

[logical4u]

Mathew 10: 17-25 clearly addresses one criterion for getting into heaven and it isn't a popular one; especially in a Capitalistic society like ours. If this nation was truly as Christian as we would have the world believe, the only rich people would be non Christians.

Abraham, Issac, Joseph, David, Solomon were all wealthy. The Lord "blesses" those that follow him. Many of them give away great sums of money (unlike most democrats) to charities. They are still wealthy.
Chistianity teaches that "wealth" should not be your god (you should not desire it above all else). When the woman poured expensive oils on Yeshua and his disciples tried to lecture her, Yeshua told them what she did was right. A wealthy man gave Yeshua a "tomb", that same man was in Yeshua's company when He taught. Yeshua never was recorded as scolding Joseph for his wealth.

It is one of the things Christians want for all peoples: for them to know and be "blessed" by the Lord.

 

[logical4u]

The social programs implemented by the government were done on the Democrats watch. And by the Christian application of their deeds, countless lives have been saved and many who had fallen could pick themselves up with a little government help. The individuals that "conservatives" and wannabees call liberals, socialists or communists followed the tenets of an altruistic philosophy that emerged far earlier than that of Karl Marx. Marx, it seems was not the father of communism at all. He was just rephrasing what Jesus said more than two millennia ago. How many of you " Christian conservatives" are squirming and sweating in your champagne now.

Not so fast.... Christian beliefs that they should care for others does not mean that "others" should abuse that care, and not take care of themselves. The biggest part of being "Christian" is your personal journey of self-improvement (after accepting the Lord as your Savior), and in turn caring for others also. By having "personal responsibility" (not like communism), the individual can be measured by themselves and by others. Each person contributes on their own, willingly. Communism does not encourage that; it encourages people to do less and take more. The actual results are quite different if you care to really look at it.

 

[logical4u]

I'm almost finished but not quite yet. In the context of this forum and my previous posts, I feel obligated to ask a question that should have been asked a long time ago: IS MITT ROMNEY THE ANTI-CHRIST?

An extremely wealthy man is an anathema to Christianity; and, Romney's past record implicates him in the evils of the material world! His unconcern for the poor and those less wealthy is evident in almost everything he says or does! Surely, if Satan came to earth in human form, he would come as someone like Romney! BTW Obama isn't rich enough to be the devil!

The anti-Christ is supposed to be extremely good looking and will deceive most. I don't see that in Romney. He is just the lesser evil running for office this time.

 

[logical4u]

I can't answer those questions, no one really should think they could, even one who follows christianity.

However, there is one serious problem with this line of questions, you must first define what you consider "help". There is the line "give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime". I believe in that myself, when I was in the "system" (that's what we called it in the shelters) they always gave us plenty of food, shelter, medical care, etc. but all the organizations that were geared toward actually helping us with things like jobs, education, etc. lost funding so they could give us more free shit. It sucks when you want to get somewhere and every time you ask for something that actually helps they look at you like you're insane. All I needed was a computer, that was it, a simple up to date computer. I had to save up my meager cash hiding it well (living in a shelter nothing is safe) and wasn't allowed to save it in the bank or I would lose my income. Once I got a laptop, I was able to work again.

The problem with that saying is that today, in order to fish, you have to have a permit and you have a limit. Most of the lakes are stocked and they are limited and if you want to fish in the ocean, you need a different permit. Ditto for hunting, plus there are seasons, what are they suppose to eat the rest of the seasons?

Really, our society is designed to punish the poor, not to lift the up. Until we can fix that flaw, we need welfare. Plus, how about we do away with welfare for the rich and corporations? Thanks to tax incentives and loop holes there are rich people and corporations who are paying no taxes whatsoever. And corporations who get benefits in return for promises they never keep should be shut down and taken over by the state, and I'm including Intel here who many years ago got more than $40,000,000 in tax incentives to build a plant in Dupont that was suppose to provide 3000 jobs which never, ever materialized. I worked it out at the time and for that amount of money they could have paid everyone living in dupont mw for 3 years for doing NOTHING. Think of what could have been accomplished with that money if they'd given it to people to start businesses.

Our society is one of the few that offers mobility to the "poor". You can start out poor or rich and change status several times over your lifetime, based on your choices, and work. It is unlike most societies in the world where you will die in the class/caste system you were born into. The opportunities are here. It will not be easy, but an individual can change their life based on their own actions.

 

[JQPublic1]

Mathew 10: 17-25 clearly addresses one criterion for getting into heaven and it isn't a popular one; especially in a Capitalistic society like ours. If this nation was truly as Christian as we would have the world believe, the only rich people would be non Christians.

Abraham, Issac, Joseph, David, Solomon were all wealthy. The Lord "blesses" those that follow him. Many of them give away great sums of money (unlike most democrats) to charities. They are still wealthy.
Chistianity teaches that "wealth" should not be your god (you should not desire it above all else). When the woman poured expensive oils on Yeshua and his disciples tried to lecture her, Yeshua told them what she did was right. A wealthy man gave Yeshua a "tomb", that same man was in Yeshua's company when He taught. Yeshua never was recorded as scolding Joseph for his wealth.

It is one of the things Christians want for all peoples: for them to know and be "blessed" by the Lord.

I knew you would bring up the Old Testament which is basically Judaism. But that still doesn't trivialize what Jesus said in Matthews 10:17-25, the New Testament. He said it, I just brought it here for all to see and ponder. And, that wealthy man that you mention might very well have been the same man who finally asked Jesus how he might get salvation only to have Jesus tell him to give all he had away and follow Him.

 

[amrchaos]

want us to structure our society to help the poor?

Jesus preached that we should help the poor...that is indisputable.

I often see self-described Christians arguing against social welfare, claiming that Jesus meant that we should help the poor individually.

This makes no sense to me. If we have the power, as individuals, to collectively help the poor then IMO this is what Jesus would want us to do.

Any thoughts?

Personally, I don;t think this Jesus guy believed in Order.

He said something along the lines or let he who is without sin cast the first stone--but that is no man living today!! So are we to let the pervs and murders and sickos run fee? It seems like Jesus says its ok if we take this commandment as law.

But if we did, what is the point of law?

 

[JQPublic1]

want us to structure our society to help the poor?

Jesus preached that we should help the poor...that is indisputable.

I often see self-described Christians arguing against social welfare, claiming that Jesus meant that we should help the poor individually.

This makes no sense to me. If we have the power, as individuals, to collectively help the poor then IMO this is what Jesus would want us to do.

Any thoughts?

Personally, I don;t think this Jesus guy believed in Order.

He said something along the lines or let he who is without sin cast the first stone--but that is no man living today!! So are we to let the pervs and murders and sickos run fee? It seems like Jesus says its ok if we take this commandment as law.

But if we did, what is the point of law?

First of all. you have to actually read the scripture and take it in context. The Pharisees, in an attempt to discredit Jesus, brought this woman before Him to judge for committing adultery. Stoning was the required punishment for adultery so if Jesus advocated sparing the woman, He would have broken the law. Jesus, though, having exceptional insight and observance skills, disarmed the ploy and saved the woman by saying:" He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone."

Death is too stiff a penalty for adultery but Jesus left her disposition up to the people who had gathered 'round for the stoning. Upon hearing His powerful words, they chose to leave without harming or incarcerating the women. So, Jesus left it up to the people to decide the woman's fate and compelled no one to obey Him. He stayed within the boundaries of law of the land.

 

[Intense]

want us to structure our society to help the poor?

Jesus preached that we should help the poor...that is indisputable.

I often see self-described Christians arguing against social welfare, claiming that Jesus meant that we should help the poor individually.

This makes no sense to me. If we have the power, as individuals, to collectively help the poor then IMO this is what Jesus would want us to do.

Any thoughts?

Jesus preached that we should help the poor...that is indisputable. Indeed. 10 fold, 30 fold, 100 fold. Your choice. Can you understand that, Ravi? It is up to you and your conviction. Why take that away?

 

[ima]

want us to structure our society to help the poor?

Jesus preached that we should help the poor...that is indisputable.

I often see self-described Christians arguing against social welfare, claiming that Jesus meant that we should help the poor individually.

This makes no sense to me. If we have the power, as individuals, to collectively help the poor then IMO this is what Jesus would want us to do.

Any thoughts?

Actually, there's no actual proof that jesus said anything attributed to him, nor is there any actual proof that he even existed.

 

[del]

want us to structure our society to help the poor?

Jesus preached that we should help the poor...that is indisputable.

I often see self-described Christians arguing against social welfare, claiming that Jesus meant that we should help the poor individually.

This makes no sense to me. If we have the power, as individuals, to collectively help the poor then IMO this is what Jesus would want us to do.

Any thoughts?

Jesus preached that we should help the poor...that is indisputable. Indeed. 10 fold, 30 fold, 100 fold. Your choice. Can you understand that, Ravi? It is up to you and your conviction. Why take that away?

how is that taken away if individually we choose to act in concert to help others?

 

[ima]

want us to structure our society to help the poor?

Jesus preached that we should help the poor...that is indisputable.

I often see self-described Christians arguing against social welfare, claiming that Jesus meant that we should help the poor individually.

This makes no sense to me. If we have the power, as individuals, to collectively help the poor then IMO this is what Jesus would want us to do.

Any thoughts?

Jesus preached that we should help the poor...that is indisputable. Indeed. 10 fold, 30 fold, 100 fold. Your choice. Can you understand that, Ravi? It is up to you and your conviction. Why take that away?

how is that taken away if individually we choose to act in concert to help others?

If a fable like Jesus inspires you to help others, that's totally cool.
Saying that Jesus spoke this and that and that's why you help people is still cool, minus the delusion part.

 

[Intense]

want us to structure our society to help the poor?

Jesus preached that we should help the poor...that is indisputable.

I often see self-described Christians arguing against social welfare, claiming that Jesus meant that we should help the poor individually.

This makes no sense to me. If we have the power, as individuals, to collectively help the poor then IMO this is what Jesus would want us to do.

Any thoughts?

Jesus preached that we should help the poor...that is indisputable. Indeed. 10 fold, 30 fold, 100 fold. Your choice. Can you understand that, Ravi? It is up to you and your conviction. Why take that away?

how is that taken away if individually we choose to act in concert to help others?

When you Dictate the Terms. Charity is Voluntary, take that away, and it is no longer Charity.

 

[Intense]

Jesus preached that we should help the poor...that is indisputable. Indeed. 10 fold, 30 fold, 100 fold. Your choice. Can you understand that, Ravi? It is up to you and your conviction. Why take that away?

how is that taken away if individually we choose to act in concert to help others?

If a fable like Jesus inspires you to help others, that's totally cool.
Saying that Jesus spoke this and that and that's why you help people is still cool, minus the delusion part.

What if the delusion is on your part?

 

[ima]

how is that taken away if individually we choose to act in concert to help others?

If a fable like Jesus inspires you to help others, that's totally cool.
Saying that Jesus spoke this and that and that's why you help people is still cool, minus the delusion part.

What if the delusion is on your part?

 

[Intense]

If a fable like Jesus inspires you to help others, that's totally cool.
Saying that Jesus spoke this and that and that's why you help people is still cool, minus the delusion part.

What if the delusion is on your part?

In matters of conscience we Each are entitled to our own Belief. In matters of Faith, neither side, no Camp, is the Ultimate Authority. If there is a God, Ultimate Authority is already handled. If there is not, there is No Ultimate Authority. ..... Place your bets.

 

[Ravi]

want us to structure our society to help the poor?

Jesus preached that we should help the poor...that is indisputable.

I often see self-described Christians arguing against social welfare, claiming that Jesus meant that we should help the poor individually.

This makes no sense to me. If we have the power, as individuals, to collectively help the poor then IMO this is what Jesus would want us to do.

Any thoughts?

Jesus preached that we should help the poor...that is indisputable. Indeed. 10 fold, 30 fold, 100 fold. Your choice. Can you understand that, Ravi? It is up to you and your conviction. Why take that away?

how is that taken away if individually we choose to act in concert to help others?

Exactly. I'm not going to reread this necroed thread but I don't think anyone answer that question to my satisfaction.

 

[Ravi]

want us to structure our society to help the poor?

Jesus preached that we should help the poor...that is indisputable.

I often see self-described Christians arguing against social welfare, claiming that Jesus meant that we should help the poor individually.

This makes no sense to me. If we have the power, as individuals, to collectively help the poor then IMO this is what Jesus would want us to do.

Any thoughts?

Actually, there's no actual proof that jesus said anything attributed to him, nor is there any actual proof that he even existed.

Not pertinent to the thread.