Why would a God even need a hell?

[Conservative65]

Mickiel hell and heaven have many levels and stages .
What leads down the road to hell is unforgiveness.
So it is the negative consequences of unforgiveness so we can learn the difference between the healing powers of forgiveness that lead to heavenly peace.

The purpose of hell is similar to war. We learn it's better not to go there. But each culture experiences this so we learn by trial and error, by experience and reason.

It's like disease that teaches us what causes health to weaken and deteriorate vs. What promotes good health and long life.

Lastly some processes of hell are used to burn away evil in the lake of fire so only what is pure remains. Some of it is like a purging process, like anger and grief are stages of healing and recovery to get to peace.

I do personally believe that the "Lake of Fire" is a purging process for humans , I agree with that.

It is. The thing is it's an eternally long process that never ends.

 

[turzovka]

I have asked myself why a God would need a hell, ( and by hell I mean the Christian version of it). I mean here this great being of life and love , is said to have created a place of eternal misery? And something is just not right with that, because it makes no sense at all. But a lot of things in religion make no sense, but religion rains on humanity, getting all of our consciousness wet in one manner or another.

My view of God, and I don't know God, have never seen him or heard his voice; is a view that I know is already distorted by many things; but I view him as merciful, loving, kind, forgiving, longsuffering, all the things that this Christian hell is not. So I don't think this hell is God's creation, I think the Christians created it. I think this eternal hell punishing is what Christians would do with unbelievers, not God. I think its moreso what the Christians want.

Why would God make an eternal monument out of evil? For what? Why would such a being of great power of change, co-exist with misery forever? Why? I can't see it. I think something is seriously wrong with this myopic view of hell! The powers that exist which can seduce the consciousness of humanity into believing nonsense, is simply stunning.

What you are really asking is why did God create earth and humans? You would prefer we were just angels with no free will and in heaven experiencing a lot of bliss. But no real cause for sacrificial love because without free will there is no difference between you and me.

I think there has to be a hell in order for heaven to be as glorious and filled with love as it is.

I also think when man interprets Scripture for himself and assigns people and acts as hell bound he is creating great error and folly. I think God wants us to cling to that which has been revealed and is clearly known – and to avoid these mysteries we cannot understand.

 

[emilynghiem]

I have asked myself why a God would need a hell, ( and by hell I mean the Christian version of it). I mean here this great being of life and love , is said to have created a place of eternal misery? And something is just not right with that, because it makes no sense at all. But a lot of things in religion make no sense, but religion rains on humanity, getting all of our consciousness wet in one manner or another.

My view of God, and I don't know God, have never seen him or heard his voice; is a view that I know is already distorted by many things; but I view him as merciful, loving, kind, forgiving, longsuffering, all the things that this Christian hell is not. So I don't think this hell is God's creation, I think the Christians created it. I think this eternal hell punishing is what Christians would do with unbelievers, not God. I think its moreso what the Christians want.

Why would God make an eternal monument out of evil? For what? Why would such a being of great power of change, co-exist with misery forever? Why? I can't see it. I think something is seriously wrong with this myopic view of hell! The powers that exist which can seduce the consciousness of humanity into believing nonsense, is simply stunning.

You left out the most important part. YOU have the ability to make a choice to avoid hell.

I am merciful, loving, kind, forgiving and longsuffereing with my children. Does that mean that there isn't a punishment for them if they do wrong and make bad choices?

Dear Mickiel RE: Why need a hell? Why would he need a garbage can?

I think you and Conservative65 both answered this question
though I might word it differently than just punishment in itself.

1. if we agree that a purging process is necessary, then detention or time out
is helpful in sitting still while going through internal cleansing. Penitentiaries got
their name because they used to be used for this.
The cleansing process isn't pleasant but can be as painful as the wrongs committed.
The scraping out of these attachments to the soul has been compared to
chemotherapy that makes a person feel they are dying and being gutted out.
it can feel worse than the cancer, but is necessary to remove all tumors so they don't grow back

2. instead of seeing it only as punishment it is
a. part of learning process, of experiencing both good consequences of better choices
and bad consequences of worse choices that compromise health of body mind spirit relations or society
so ills in people and society are symptoms of something out of balance in conflict and out of harmony
this suffering is different levels of hell and full blown war and genocide
even drug addictions and mental illness are some manifestations of hell from negative forces overtaking the person
b. a matter of getting the justice you give
so if you are judgmental and punitive toward others by retribution
God will treat you to a taste of your own medicine when you do something wrong
but if you are forgiving and seek correction for accountability sake
then you will be forgiven to the same degree and allowed to correct your errors with the same grace.

We can only learn this lesson of equal justice by practicing it: reaping what we sow,
laws of karma or cause and effect, dying by our own sword or living by our own words.
if we condemn people to hell, and they do the same we both go there by our mutual unforgiveness
if we forgive and receive one another for correction and restitution sake, we both enjoy benefits of solving problems, healing relations, sharing credit and preventing problems from causing further suffering in a cycle we can break

Since God gives us free choice, this is how we learn.
we have the choice of creating hell or heaven on earth, and in our daily relations between people and groups
tribes or nations currently either at war or in process of seeking ways to make peace and rebuild by restitution for past wrongs, and collectively this process is reflected as hell or heaven on a higher spiritual level

We either live by restorative justice that is Christ Jesus
or we die by retributive justice that is antichrist.

 

[Mickiel]

I do not believe that God gives us free choice; he gives us free life, there is no other choice but him.

 

[Mickiel]

Why would a God need a torture trophy?

 

[onefour1]

Are there laws in heaven? Does God consign the righteous to eternally live among the wicked? Is God a just God? Does he meet out justice according to his own laws? Does salvation come to the unrepentant soul? You are worthy of the kingdom that you choose in this life. Has not God given you the opportunity to choose good over evil? If you choose evil over good, is it just that you should spend your time in the hereafter with the righteous? Is not a separation of the wicked from the righteous a hell for the wicked? Did not Lucifer have a choice to follow the laws of God and not become a law unto himself? Has not God called upon all to repent of their sins? Did he not provide a way for the repentant sinner to escape eternal justice by repenting and following after Jesus Christ who atoned for the sins of the world? Is it not man who rejects God and not God who rejects man? Too many want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to sin and become evil and corrupt and then be allowed into heaven. God is a just God. Only the repentant sinner will be allowed into the kingdom of heaven. Those who have not repented but continually seek after evil will be damned from entering his kingdom.

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

2 Nephi 2:13
13 And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not there is no God. And if there is no God we are not, neither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away.

 

[Mickiel]

In my understanding there are no laws in heaven; for what?

Are there laws in heaven? Does God consign the righteous to eternally live among the wicked? Is God a just God? Does he meet out justice according to his own laws? Does salvation come to the unrepentant soul? You are worthy of the kingdom that you choose in this life. Has not God given you the opportunity to choose good over evil? If you choose evil over good, is it just that you should spend your time in the hereafter with the righteous? Is not a separation of the wicked from the righteous a hell for the wicked? Did not Lucifer have a choice to follow the laws of God and not become a law unto himself? Has not God called upon all to repent of their sins? Did he not provide a way for the repentant sinner to escape eternal justice by repenting and following after Jesus Christ who atoned for the sins of the world? Is it not man who rejects God and not God who rejects man? Too many want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to sin and become evil and corrupt and then be allowed into heaven. God is a just God. Only the repentant sinner will be allowed into the kingdom of heaven. Those who have not repented but continually seek after evil will be damned from entering his kingdom.

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

2 Nephi 2:13
13 And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not there is no God. And if there is no God we are not, neither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away.

Well again I disagree, I just do not view scripture like a Christian does. There are no laws in heaven, there are no law breakers there. The Kingdom of God is ruled by Love, peace, Joy, kindness , faith, Goodness ; in other words its ruled by the very character of God and his ways; or the " Fruit of the Spirit", as listed in Gal. 5:22-23;notice last part of verse 23;" Against these ways " There is no law!"

Why would the Kingdom of God need laws? No sin is there.

 

[Mickiel]

Why would a God need human laws?

Why would he need a hell for humans?
Why do we imagine Godly things in human terms?

 

[onefour1]

Who said that God's laws were those of mortal men? Why would God cast Satan out of heaven?

Revelation 12:9
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Why would Jesus tell us:

Matthew 7:21
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

God's will is the law and Satan broke it. If we do not learn to live by God's laws, we too will be kept from entering his kingdom. For those who have eternal hatred toward God and his goodness, hell is the only place for them. Satan lived in the presence of God and knew of his goodness and love. Yet, he was a selfish power seeker who cared not for his father but sought to overtake his kingdom. God will not allow the wicked to inhabit the same place as the righteous. Otherwise it would be no heaven for those who seek the goodness of God.

 

[Mickiel]

God has no laws in his Kingdom , show me any scriptures that state that.

satan did not break any law of God , he was created to be evil. Old covenant laws did not apply to the devil. satan NEVER lived in God's presence , I would like to see that in scripture.

 

[LittleNipper]

God has no laws in his Kingdom , show me any scriptures that state that.

satan did not break any law of God , he was created to be evil. Old covenant laws did not apply to the devil. satan NEVER lived in God's presence , I would like to see that in scripture.

Satan wanted to usurp GOD. HE wanted to become GOD. He lied to Adam and Eve. All sin ultimately goes back to a desire to take over, manipulate and control. Satan, unlike Adam knew the power of GOD and saw GOD in all His splendor. Satan wanted that and more; however, he is just a created being. Created beings depend on GOD for their existence and survival and not the other way around. The math simply doesn't work that way.

 

[Weatherman2020]

I have asked myself why a God would need a hell, ( and by hell I mean the Christian version of it). I mean here this great being of life and love , is said to have created a place of eternal misery? And something is just not right with that, because it makes no sense at all. But a lot of things in religion make no sense, but religion rains on humanity, getting all of our consciousness wet in one manner or another.

My view of God, and I don't know God, have never seen him or heard his voice; is a view that I know is already distorted by many things; but I view him as merciful, loving, kind, forgiving, longsuffering, all the things that this Christian hell is not. So I don't think this hell is God's creation, I think the Christians created it. I think this eternal hell punishing is what Christians would do with unbelievers, not God. I think its moreso what the Christians want.

Why would God make an eternal monument out of evil? For what? Why would such a being of great power of change, co-exist with misery forever? Why? I can't see it. I think something is seriously wrong with this myopic view of hell! The powers that exist which can seduce the consciousness of humanity into believing nonsense, is simply stunning.

The Christian version of hell is simply you are separated from God. You don't get to come into the club, your stuck outside.
It's your choice where you want to go. Man up and take responsibility for your own decision.

 

[Mickiel]

God has no laws in his Kingdom , show me any scriptures that state that.

satan did not break any law of God , he was created to be evil. Old covenant laws did not apply to the devil. satan NEVER lived in God's presence , I would like to see that in scripture.

Satan wanted to usurp GOD. HE wanted to become GOD. He lied to Adam and Eve. All sin ultimately goes back to a desire to take over, manipulate and control. Satan, unlike Adam knew the power of GOD and saw GOD in all His splendor. Satan wanted that and more; however, he is just a created being. Created beings depend on GOD for their existence and survival and not the other way around. The math simply doesn't work that way.

satan did not lie to Adam and Eve; show me where he lied. He did not have to lie, he manipulated them. It was easy , quick and outclassed overpowered manipulation ; and God KNEW it would be that way ; and God did NOT help them.

 

[Mickiel]

I have asked myself why a God would need a hell, ( and by hell I mean the Christian version of it). I mean here this great being of life and love , is said to have created a place of eternal misery? And something is just not right with that, because it makes no sense at all. But a lot of things in religion make no sense, but religion rains on humanity, getting all of our consciousness wet in one manner or another.

My view of God, and I don't know God, have never seen him or heard his voice; is a view that I know is already distorted by many things; but I view him as merciful, loving, kind, forgiving, longsuffering, all the things that this Christian hell is not. So I don't think this hell is God's creation, I think the Christians created it. I think this eternal hell punishing is what Christians would do with unbelievers, not God. I think its moreso what the Christians want.

Why would God make an eternal monument out of evil? For what? Why would such a being of great power of change, co-exist with misery forever? Why? I can't see it. I think something is seriously wrong with this myopic view of hell! The powers that exist which can seduce the consciousness of humanity into believing nonsense, is simply stunning.

The Christian version of hell is simply you are separated from God. You don't get to come into the club, your stuck outside.
It's your choice where you want to go. Man up and take responsibility for your own decision.

I am the kind of parent that would not stand stupidly by and let my child make a choice that would cripple their entire lives. Just to say that I stood by some honor code of letting them choose for themselves.

You must think God is stupid.

 

[Weatherman2020]

I have asked myself why a God would need a hell, ( and by hell I mean the Christian version of it). I mean here this great being of life and love , is said to have created a place of eternal misery? And something is just not right with that, because it makes no sense at all. But a lot of things in religion make no sense, but religion rains on humanity, getting all of our consciousness wet in one manner or another.

My view of God, and I don't know God, have never seen him or heard his voice; is a view that I know is already distorted by many things; but I view him as merciful, loving, kind, forgiving, longsuffering, all the things that this Christian hell is not. So I don't think this hell is God's creation, I think the Christians created it. I think this eternal hell punishing is what Christians would do with unbelievers, not God. I think its moreso what the Christians want.

Why would God make an eternal monument out of evil? For what? Why would such a being of great power of change, co-exist with misery forever? Why? I can't see it. I think something is seriously wrong with this myopic view of hell! The powers that exist which can seduce the consciousness of humanity into believing nonsense, is simply stunning.

The Christian version of hell is simply you are separated from God. You don't get to come into the club, your stuck outside.
It's your choice where you want to go. Man up and take responsibility for your own decision.

I am the kind of parent that would not stand stupidly by and let my child make a choice that would cripple their entire lives. Just to say that I stood by some honor code of letting them choose for themselves.

You must think God is stupid.

So you prefer a God that controls all of your actions? You better go back and read Genesis, we decided to not go that route a long time ago.

But God still doesn't like our stupid choices. That's why God sent His Son, and whoever believes in Him ......

 

[Mickiel]

I have asked myself why a God would need a hell, ( and by hell I mean the Christian version of it). I mean here this great being of life and love , is said to have created a place of eternal misery? And something is just not right with that, because it makes no sense at all. But a lot of things in religion make no sense, but religion rains on humanity, getting all of our consciousness wet in one manner or another.

My view of God, and I don't know God, have never seen him or heard his voice; is a view that I know is already distorted by many things; but I view him as merciful, loving, kind, forgiving, longsuffering, all the things that this Christian hell is not. So I don't think this hell is God's creation, I think the Christians created it. I think this eternal hell punishing is what Christians would do with unbelievers, not God. I think its moreso what the Christians want.

Why would God make an eternal monument out of evil? For what? Why would such a being of great power of change, co-exist with misery forever? Why? I can't see it. I think something is seriously wrong with this myopic view of hell! The powers that exist which can seduce the consciousness of humanity into believing nonsense, is simply stunning.

The Christian version of hell is simply you are separated from God. You don't get to come into the club, your stuck outside.
It's your choice where you want to go. Man up and take responsibility for your own decision.

I am the kind of parent that would not stand stupidly by and let my child make a choice that would cripple their entire lives. Just to say that I stood by some honor code of letting them choose for themselves.

You must think God is stupid.

So you prefer a God that controls all of your actions? You better go back and read Genesis, we decided to not go that route a long time ago.

But God still doesn't like our stupid choices. That's why God sent His Son, and whoever believes in Him ......

Yes, I prefer a God who controls all things and would not allow my actions to dictate my eternal life.

 

[Weatherman2020]

I have asked myself why a God would need a hell, ( and by hell I mean the Christian version of it). I mean here this great being of life and love , is said to have created a place of eternal misery? And something is just not right with that, because it makes no sense at all. But a lot of things in religion make no sense, but religion rains on humanity, getting all of our consciousness wet in one manner or another.

My view of God, and I don't know God, have never seen him or heard his voice; is a view that I know is already distorted by many things; but I view him as merciful, loving, kind, forgiving, longsuffering, all the things that this Christian hell is not. So I don't think this hell is God's creation, I think the Christians created it. I think this eternal hell punishing is what Christians would do with unbelievers, not God. I think its moreso what the Christians want.

Why would God make an eternal monument out of evil? For what? Why would such a being of great power of change, co-exist with misery forever? Why? I can't see it. I think something is seriously wrong with this myopic view of hell! The powers that exist which can seduce the consciousness of humanity into believing nonsense, is simply stunning.

The Christian version of hell is simply you are separated from God. You don't get to come into the club, your stuck outside.
It's your choice where you want to go. Man up and take responsibility for your own decision.

I am the kind of parent that would not stand stupidly by and let my child make a choice that would cripple their entire lives. Just to say that I stood by some honor code of letting them choose for themselves.

You must think God is stupid.

So you prefer a God that controls all of your actions? You better go back and read Genesis, we decided to not go that route a long time ago.

But God still doesn't like our stupid choices. That's why God sent His Son, and whoever believes in Him ......

Yes, I prefer a God who controls all things and would not allow my actions to dictate my eternal life.

So you prefer a God who would not let you make that post.

It's your free will to desire that. I prefer free will and the free ticket to heaven I got.

 

[Mickiel]

I have asked myself why a God would need a hell, ( and by hell I mean the Christian version of it). I mean here this great being of life and love , is said to have created a place of eternal misery? And something is just not right with that, because it makes no sense at all. But a lot of things in religion make no sense, but religion rains on humanity, getting all of our consciousness wet in one manner or another.

My view of God, and I don't know God, have never seen him or heard his voice; is a view that I know is already distorted by many things; but I view him as merciful, loving, kind, forgiving, longsuffering, all the things that this Christian hell is not. So I don't think this hell is God's creation, I think the Christians created it. I think this eternal hell punishing is what Christians would do with unbelievers, not God. I think its moreso what the Christians want.

Why would God make an eternal monument out of evil? For what? Why would such a being of great power of change, co-exist with misery forever? Why? I can't see it. I think something is seriously wrong with this myopic view of hell! The powers that exist which can seduce the consciousness of humanity into believing nonsense, is simply stunning.

The Christian version of hell is simply you are separated from God. You don't get to come into the club, your stuck outside.
It's your choice where you want to go. Man up and take responsibility for your own decision.

I am the kind of parent that would not stand stupidly by and let my child make a choice that would cripple their entire lives. Just to say that I stood by some honor code of letting them choose for themselves.

You must think God is stupid.

So you prefer a God that controls all of your actions? You better go back and read Genesis, we decided to not go that route a long time ago.

But God still doesn't like our stupid choices. That's why God sent His Son, and whoever believes in Him ......

Yes, I prefer a God who controls all things and would not allow my actions to dictate my eternal life.

So you prefer a God who would not let you make that post.

It's your free will to desire that. I prefer free will and the free ticket to heaven I got.

Yes, I prefer a God who would not let me make that post ;because if he did not want me to do it, I would not want to either. I prefer God's will over my will ,and Jesus preferred the same ; he said " Not my will,( or free will), but THY will be done!" The ticket is free, and I don't want my desire to have a free will to interfere with that free gift.

 

[Mickiel]

We are discussing what " We would prefer" , now, what does God prefer or " Desire?" 1 Tim. 2:3-4," For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior ,who desires that ALL men be saved and come to know the truth about him." God wants ALL of his children, ALL of humanity to be with him, especially those of us who reject him because of stupidity and this choice thingy pimped out by religion.

Now Christians may not think all being saved is good and they obviously do not accept that , but God has accepted it. Christians do not control salvation. God WANTS ALL saved , and God GETS what he wants; Job 23:13,"For he is of one mind and who can turn him? What his soul wants, that he DOES!"

Its academic!

 

[emilynghiem]

In my understanding there are no laws in heaven; for what?

Are there laws in heaven? Does God consign the righteous to eternally live among the wicked? Is God a just God? Does he meet out justice according to his own laws? Does salvation come to the unrepentant soul? You are worthy of the kingdom that you choose in this life. Has not God given you the opportunity to choose good over evil? If you choose evil over good, is it just that you should spend your time in the hereafter with the righteous? Is not a separation of the wicked from the righteous a hell for the wicked? Did not Lucifer have a choice to follow the laws of God and not become a law unto himself? Has not God called upon all to repent of their sins? Did he not provide a way for the repentant sinner to escape eternal justice by repenting and following after Jesus Christ who atoned for the sins of the world? Is it not man who rejects God and not God who rejects man? Too many want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to sin and become evil and corrupt and then be allowed into heaven. God is a just God. Only the repentant sinner will be allowed into the kingdom of heaven. Those who have not repented but continually seek after evil will be damned from entering his kingdom.

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

2 Nephi 2:13
13 And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not there is no God. And if there is no God we are not, neither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away.

Well again I disagree, I just do not view scripture like a Christian does. There are no laws in heaven, there are no law breakers there. The Kingdom of God is ruled by Love, peace, Joy, kindness , faith, Goodness ; in other words its ruled by the very character of God and his ways; or the " Fruit of the Spirit", as listed in Gal. 5:22-23;notice last part of verse 23;" Against these ways " There is no law!"

Why would the Kingdom of God need laws? No sin is there.

Just because ppl have learned to live in peace and justice by the laws doesn't mean they cease to exist. They are fulfilled and we follow them naturally by embodying them as Christians represents, fully by conscience reconciled and made one whole new and perfect with God's will truth and laws.

Fulfillment is not the same as abolishment. Mickiel

Heaven and earth shall pass away but God's word or laws remain eternal. There is a scripture that says God's word shall not pass away.