Why the Sudden Doubts about the Verdict?

[IM2]

Smart money says hung jury. Which is not a finding..but rather a declaration that a finding is impossible. I'm sure that the Right will tout a hung jury as a victory, but it really isn't.
Trump isn't going to prison.....not on this charge, anyway~

Probably not, and Trump supporters will do exactly like you say. It's going to be up to us to not vote him into a position whereby he can erase the cases.

 

[IM2]

Right, there is a zero chance he goes to prison over this.

I was betting on home confinement.

 

[Leo123]

Smart money says hung jury. Which is not a finding..but rather a declaration that a finding is impossible. I'm sure that the Right will tout a hung jury as a victory, but it really isn't.
Trump isn't going to prison.....not on this charge, anyway~

Yep and the other cases are falling apart.

 

[San Souci]

Whatever makes them happy.

Getting rid of the Walking Corpse and the Giggling Ho' would make the Economy happy.

 

[SweetSue92]

Don't feed the sealions.

He committed no crime.
Bronx rally.
Tough times for you eh?

 

[SweetSue92]

Oh good Lord. Another one runs in demanding to know what Trump did.

Occam's razor. It should be easy, but it's not. It's not because there's no crime there.

 

[Care4all]

So at no previous time was Michael Cohen paid "legal fees" and it was entered that way?

No previous time had he been paid that way, or had it been entered that way. He was a full time employee for the Trump Organization and was paid as an employee. That employee status ended as Trump took office and no longer needed his fixer, and this fake invoice created to pay Michael back for Stormy payment disguised as a retainer for work done by Cohen in 2017 for Trump, was created out of whole cloth.

 

[Care4all]

You’re saying that Cohen never billed Trump until the NDA?

Cohen was a full time employee for Trump as his fixer and got a salary, prior to this fake retainer, fudging figures crap....

 

[Care4all]

Bob Costello's testimony in front of Congress should have let you know that Cohen was desperate to stay out of prison because of his tax evasion charges. Cohen himself testified that he would have done anything to stay out of prison yet when Costello told him that if you've got something on Trump I can make your legal problems go away by the end of the week...Cohen said repeatedly that he had NOTHING on Trump! The jury didn't get to hear that though...did they? Because Mershan put a gag order on Costello as well!

Costello came off as a disrespectful, crooked mob boss lawyer and thug. The Costello emails proved Cohen's instinct to not trust him as a lawyer was spot on! Thus Cohen not telling Costello about Trump.....

Big big mistake that the defense called him as a witness, thinking it would be easy peasy because of the way the republican Congress treated him with kid gloves in their hearing.....boy were they wrong!

 

[Care4all]

Did you just claim that the DOJ was stacked with Trump loyalists? LOL Wow! Talk about The Big Lie! Goebbels would be proud of you, Joey!

AG Bill Barr ran the DOJ show.

 

[SweetSue92]

Smart money says hung jury. Which is not a finding..but rather a declaration that a finding is impossible. I'm sure that the Right will tout a hung jury as a victory, but it really isn't.
Trump isn't going to prison.....not on this charge, anyway~

Between this and the Bronx rally the hits just keep on coming

 

[Care4all]

He was not reimbursed 130K. He billed 35K per month for legal expenses and was paid. Conflating that with the NDA payment comes from no one but Cohen.

Geez

The invoice and scribbled notes

$130k for Nda
$ 50k for Red finch expense
___________________
$180k
Times two, to make Cohen even on taxes he would owe, 50% total taxes Nyc, with fed taxes
$360k
$ 60k as bonus
______________
$420k
divided by 12 months
_____________________
$35,000 payment a month.

 

[yidnar]

You mean if all 12 jurors vote to acquit him? Then you might have a point, but that's not going to happen.

The best that Trump can hope for is one Juror hanging the jury.

But I doubt that will happen, given the disastrous case his lawyers put on.

his lawyers have absolutely destroyed the credibility of the Bidens star witness ..

 

[Care4all]

Smart money says hung jury. Which is not a finding..but rather a declaration that a finding is impossible. I'm sure that the Right will tout a hung jury as a victory, but it really isn't.
Trump isn't going to prison.....not on this charge, anyway~

And if only 1 hung juror they will retry the case, if there are 3 hung jurors, they likely will not, imo.

 

[Care4all]

You don't see the absurdity in that? You would be fine with the state charging you with a crime and bringing you to trial on that crime. Your attorney asks "what crime has she committed?" Judge tells your attorney to STFU and he'll clear it up in the jury instructions.

You'd be comfortable with that?

Yes, the whole thing is weird the way their law is written where it is a misdemeanor, unless accompanied by another crime or attempted crime or cover-up or attempted cover-up of a crime, then the original indictment becomes a felony....while not charging them or needing the accompanied crime to have been charged previously is just one big fat ball of craziness and confusion.

That will likely be on the list of appeal reasons for the defense, if he is found guilty by all the jurors.

But note, NYState has used this law and charged others previous to Trump, at this felony level....it's not new for Trump.

Trump still did what they are claiming in their indictment though....imo!

 

[brokedickdog]

At the beginnng and through most of the trial, Democrats on her were crowing about Trump going to prison, Republicans being forced to vote for a felon, etc. Now the attitude seems to be "wait and see," and the moral cowardice of, "I'll respect the jury's verdict."

Even the WaPo is lowering expectations - they defining "high expectations" as a former president and current frontrunner literally imprisoned by the opposition party, banana republic style.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/05/21/forget-everything-you-think-you-know-about-what-trump-jury-will-do/

I would caution people, based on my own experience, to remember that their experience from the outside is as different than the jury’s as the courtroom sketches are from the reality of being there in person. And I would note that Trump’s guilt will ultimately be decided not on whether the public thinks the case has been made or even on whether the jury does, but instead on the conversation the jury has within the constraints of evidence and the law to which they have been exposed.

And no one can reliably predict how that conversation will unfold.

I don't get it. If the evidence is so strong, and the judge so fair, and the Jury made of savvy New Yorkers who won't be put off by the likes of fellow New Yorker Michael Cohen, why doubt the outcome? If Trump's actions are so proven, and they fit so well into a clearly defined crime, and the witnesses so credible, why would you not predict a swift verdict of guilty on all counts?

Team Trump barely responded to the prosecution's case. Two witnesses, both of whome the fair judge cut off from answering. The jury will consider only the prosecution's examinations, the defense's cross, and the closing arguments. How can you doubt a victory for your side?

Is is possible that this is the answer, incredible as it may seem:

Did you really and truly not know what a farce this trial was from the beginning? Did you believe your own nonsense about no one being above the law, and this case being a simple example of Donald Trump finally facing trial for his crimes as anyone else would? Now, having seen how absurdly weak and counter to the law, this prosecution is, you pretend that you only care that the process was carried out, and you were never expecting a particular outcome?

I'm disappointed in you, really. I would have expected you to keep up the cry of "Felon Trump" right up until the hung jury was announced and then to denounce the sneaky Trumpers who must have lied their way onto the jury.

But, you will respect the findings, eh?

I look forward to seeing you keep that promise.

Trump is winning in the court of public opinion bigly.

The verdict? All anyone in this discussion can do now is speculate. Let's wait and see.

 

[Care4all]

They were already on record with their objection to her testimony. They specifically warned the Judge about this type of questioning from the prosecution. (IHMO. that is reversible error in and of itself) When the prosecution started going down that path it was the Judge's duty to stop them, regardless of whether the defense was objecting (another reversible error) And then for the judge to whine that the defense should have objected more is like a serial killer telling the police to Stop Me Before I Kill Again.

It's also strategic. The judge had been overruling defense objection after objection after objection. You run the risk of the jury getting the impression that you are doing nothing but trying to keep things from them and mucking up the process.

I'm not certain the judge was responsible for the Defense's legal strategy of not objecting early on.

How have you been watching the judge?

By going over and reading the transcript of the trial.

The fact that the judge has allowed the trial to end and we still have absolutely no idea what the "other crime" is, is completely absurd - Slam Dunk Reversible error

The other crimes were all campaign /election laws, federal and NYState. I still have not gotten back to the transcript yet, for the specifics. And I agree Trump's defense team will likely try for their appeal on these grounds.

 

[Batcat]

Agreed. If the Jury finds him Not Guilty then that is that. But will you accept whatever verdict the Jury returns?

The case will be appealed if Trump loses and the experts I listen to say the verdict will be overturned. Unfortunately this will likely be after the election.

Alan Dershowitz: Trump’s New York Trial Is A Stupendous Legal Catastrophe​

Opinion by Alan Dershowitz
• 2w •

(Link)…MSN

 

[SavannahMann]

Occam's razor. It should be easy, but it's not. It's not because there's no crime there.

Did you watch the same trial?

Witness described conversations with Trump where they talked about doing what Trump is accused of doing. Audio recordings show Trump telling people to do what he is accused of doing. Documentation was presented where Trump did what he is accused of doing.

Next question?

 

[SavannahMann]

The case will be appealed if Trump loses and the experts I listen to say the verdict will be overturned. Unfortunately this will likely be after the election.

Alan Dershowitz: Trump’s New York Trial Is A Stupendous Legal Catastrophe​

Opinion by Alan Dershowitz
• 2w •

(Link)…MSN

And Litman says that the Prosecution has proven the case while the defense was scattershot.

Litman: Trump's hush money trial is about to go to the jury. What's the most likely verdict?

New York prosecutors presented a credible narrative. The defense relied mainly on undermining prosecution witnesses such as Stormy Daniels and Michael Cohen.

www.latimes.com