Why The GOP Elites Will Never Regain the American Middle Class

JimBowie1958

Old Fogey
Sep 25, 2011
63,590
16,753
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The GOP neocons will never regain control of the GOP via American working class voters as the GOP Establishment kissed them good bye when they decided to import cheap black market labor instead.

Rep. Dave Brat: 2018 DACA Amnesty Fight ‘Will Determine the Nature of Our Country’ — ‘If We Fail on This, Just Picture Europe’

“If we fail on this, just picture Europe,” said Rep. Dave Brat (R-VA) of what would happen if Congress failed to permanently repair America’s “broken immigration system” and just passed another amnesty instead.
Brat made his comments on Friday’s edition of SiriusXM’s Breitbart News Tonight in an interview with Breitbart News’s Senior Editor-at-Large Rebecca Mansour.

America will resemble “France, Sweden, Germany, [or] the Netherlands” in the absence of enacting an immigration system “for the benefit of American citizens and U.S. workers,” said Brat.

Immigration is a top-priority issue, said Brat: “This is not like any other policy issue. This will determine the nature of our country over the next decades in how we settle this. Either we’re going to add to the anxiety and all this hate-filled back and forth, or we find an economic solution for this country moving forward.”

Brat discussed Congress’s considerations to codify the Obama administration’s Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) policy into federal law.

Congress must prioritize four repairs for the immigration system before contemplating any DACA-style amnesty negotiation, said Brat: 1. Ending chain migration and the visa lottery; 2. Mandating employer use of E-Verify; 3. Construction of a southern border wall; and 4. Interior enforcement of immigration law.

The four aforementioned “permanent fixes” must precede any DACA negotiation regarding amnesty for illegal immigrants, said Brat: “It shouldn’t be about trusting or hoping, the permanent part has to come first, you see in that place and then you negotiate later.”
Ann Coulter: No DACA Amnesty 'Until There's a Wall and Hell Freezes Over' - Breitbart

New York Times best-selling author and populist conservative columnist Ann Coulter says President Trump should not begin to consider amnesty for illegal aliens “until there’s a wall and hell freezes over.”
In a post on Friday, Coulter responded to a tweet by President Trump in which he reiterated that he would only be willing to sign off on an amnesty beginning with nearly 800,000 illegal aliens if his list of pro-American immigration principles were enacted simultaneously.​

Bannon: America's Elites Are 'Comfortable Managing Country's Decline' - Breitbart

“Our elites have not just been okay with [the rise of China], they’ve helped exacerbate that rise … by telling us from day one that as China got wealthier, they become more liberal democratic and free-market capitalist,” Bannon told Koffler.

Instead of adopting the global liberal values of America and the West’s elite, Bannon argues, the leadership of Red China see their own “Confucian, mercantilist, authoritarian” model as the “way of the future.” He cited Chinese President and Communist Party General Secretary Xi Jinping’s latest speech to the Chinese Communist Party conference in which he laid out China’s goal to overtake the United States in several key industries and replace the dollar as the world reserve currency in the next three decades....

The analogy of the “Thucydides Trap,” as expounded by Graham Allison in a book economist and author David P. Goldman once described as “really dreadful,” is that one great power declining relative to a rival, rising one leads towards war between the two by pure non-ideological mechanism of power politics.

The most prominent example in modern times is Germany’s rapid rise to overtake the United Kingdom and become the industrial leader of Europe in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries. The Thucydides Trap theory would suggest the seemingly inevitable German eclipse of British naval supremacy drove the two powers inexorably towards conflict, as World War I’s outbreak in August 1914 would appear to validate.

A Soviet Union supposedly rising relative to the United States, however, never turned the Cold War “hot” as the most pessimistic of Thucydidean theorists feared.

Today, the Thucydides Trap framework is increasingly deployed to describe America’s relationship with China, including within the administration. A likely conclusion from it would be to manage the rise of China in such a way as to avoid confrontation.

Bannon slammed this thinking, noting that working class and middle class Americans do not share the same stakes in “managing” China’s rise to economic hegemony. “It’s quite evident, and Pat Caddell and I talk about this a lot,” Bannon explained, “that America’s elites are quite comfortable with managing America’s decline.”​

National Review has long been the NEoCon Flagship for unlimited immigration and open borders trade.
John Zmirak: National Review Pundits Horrified by Trump’s ‘Vulgar’ Comments ‘Were Licking the Mud Off of George W. Bush’s Boots’ While He Allowed Iraq’s Christians to Be Ethnically Cleansed

National Review “let themselves be turned into the propaganda wing of the neo-conservative movement” during the George W. Bush administration, while ignoring the ethnic cleansing of Iraq’s Christian communities under Bush’s watch, said John Zmirak, Senior Editor of The Stream and author of the new Politically Incorrect Guide to Catholicism.
Zmirak made his comments during an interview with Breitbart Senior Editor-at-Large Rebecca Mansour Friday on SiriusXM’s Breitbart News Tonight.

National Review, said Zmirak, refused to countenance debate over the wisdom of invading Iraq during the Bush administration’s lead-up to the Iraq War, further refusing to publish criticisms of Bush’s prosecution of the Iraq War. He contrasted National Review’seditorial opposition to debate over the Iraq War with that of David Horowitz’s Frontpage Mag, which published competing views – both supportive and opposed – toward the Iraq War.​


Rick Manning: 'National Review Crowd Can’t Admit They Were Dead Wrong About Donald Trump'

“[Donald Trump] is the most conservative president in my lifetime, and I include Ronald Reagan,” opined Manning, reflecting on National Review’s ongoing framing of the 45th president as lacking conservative bona fides.

National Review’s 2016 “Against Trump” article derided then presidential candidate Donald Trump as a “philosophically unmoored political opportunist who would trash the broad conservative ideological consensus.”

Manning reflected on National Review’s expressed contempt for “white working class” communities, recalling the magazine’s 2016 cover story by Kevin Williamson which described predominantly white and rural communities as “dysfunctional and downscale.”

“White working class” communities “deserve to die,” wrote National Review’s Williamson in that 2016 cover article about then-candidate Trump’s voters. When confronted by criticism for this stance, the magazine doubled down.

Manning said Williamson was “dead wrong” that we should “let rural America die.”


“Rural America is being murdered,” explained Manning. “They weren’t dying, they were being murdered by trade laws that sent out jobs overseas, by tax laws that made it too expensive to build stuff here, and by environmental laws that strangle the life out of anybody who wants to grow anything, extract anything, or build anything.”

“And that’s why Kevin Williamson was dead wrong in his arrogance in believing that free trade was everything, when in fact what’s really important is having trade based on a level playing field,” said Manning. “America tied both hands behind her back in a boxing match trying to use our forehead to fight with. We’ll never be able to win that boxing match. Donald Trump’s changed the game.”

Mansour said she is “still appalled” by that Williamson National Review article.

“They were trying to write off these working class communities in the Rust Belt and these rural communities throughout America,” said Mansour. “And yet, this was the same National Review that shilled endlessly for the Bush administration’s wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and you know what? The sons and daughters of the very same people in these communities that National Review is telling us, ‘Oh, just let ‘em die off’ — those were the ones that went and fought the wars that National Review was shilling for. Those were the ones that bled in those wars. Those were the ones that came home injured from those wars, and National Review has the gall to then say, ‘Oh, your community should be allowed to die. You’re just lazy. You’re indefensible.'”

“It was the most appalling piece I had ever read,” said Manning of Williamson’s National Review cover article.​

The masses of working class Americans Trump has brought into the GOP will never relinquish control back to the neocons as they know what a collection of bastards these losers really are.
 
As long as we have one currency the wealthy GOP will never need to regain the American Middle Class, all politics aside.
 
The GOP neocons will never regain control of the GOP via American working class voters as the GOP Establishment kissed them good bye when they decided to import cheap black market labor instead.

Rep. Dave Brat: 2018 DACA Amnesty Fight ‘Will Determine the Nature of Our Country’ — ‘If We Fail on This, Just Picture Europe’

“If we fail on this, just picture Europe,” said Rep. Dave Brat (R-VA) of what would happen if Congress failed to permanently repair America’s “broken immigration system” and just passed another amnesty instead.
Brat made his comments on Friday’s edition of SiriusXM’s Breitbart News Tonight in an interview with Breitbart News’s Senior Editor-at-Large Rebecca Mansour.

America will resemble “France, Sweden, Germany, [or] the Netherlands” in the absence of enacting an immigration system “for the benefit of American citizens and U.S. workers,” said Brat.

Immigration is a top-priority issue, said Brat: “This is not like any other policy issue. This will determine the nature of our country over the next decades in how we settle this. Either we’re going to add to the anxiety and all this hate-filled back and forth, or we find an economic solution for this country moving forward.”

Brat discussed Congress’s considerations to codify the Obama administration’s Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) policy into federal law.

Congress must prioritize four repairs for the immigration system before contemplating any DACA-style amnesty negotiation, said Brat: 1. Ending chain migration and the visa lottery; 2. Mandating employer use of E-Verify; 3. Construction of a southern border wall; and 4. Interior enforcement of immigration law.

The four aforementioned “permanent fixes” must precede any DACA negotiation regarding amnesty for illegal immigrants, said Brat: “It shouldn’t be about trusting or hoping, the permanent part has to come first, you see in that place and then you negotiate later.”
Ann Coulter: No DACA Amnesty 'Until There's a Wall and Hell Freezes Over' - Breitbart

New York Times best-selling author and populist conservative columnist Ann Coulter says President Trump should not begin to consider amnesty for illegal aliens “until there’s a wall and hell freezes over.”
In a post on Friday, Coulter responded to a tweet by President Trump in which he reiterated that he would only be willing to sign off on an amnesty beginning with nearly 800,000 illegal aliens if his list of pro-American immigration principles were enacted simultaneously.​

Bannon: America's Elites Are 'Comfortable Managing Country's Decline' - Breitbart

“Our elites have not just been okay with [the rise of China], they’ve helped exacerbate that rise … by telling us from day one that as China got wealthier, they become more liberal democratic and free-market capitalist,” Bannon told Koffler.

Instead of adopting the global liberal values of America and the West’s elite, Bannon argues, the leadership of Red China see their own “Confucian, mercantilist, authoritarian” model as the “way of the future.” He cited Chinese President and Communist Party General Secretary Xi Jinping’s latest speech to the Chinese Communist Party conference in which he laid out China’s goal to overtake the United States in several key industries and replace the dollar as the world reserve currency in the next three decades....

The analogy of the “Thucydides Trap,” as expounded by Graham Allison in a book economist and author David P. Goldman once described as “really dreadful,” is that one great power declining relative to a rival, rising one leads towards war between the two by pure non-ideological mechanism of power politics.

The most prominent example in modern times is Germany’s rapid rise to overtake the United Kingdom and become the industrial leader of Europe in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries. The Thucydides Trap theory would suggest the seemingly inevitable German eclipse of British naval supremacy drove the two powers inexorably towards conflict, as World War I’s outbreak in August 1914 would appear to validate.

A Soviet Union supposedly rising relative to the United States, however, never turned the Cold War “hot” as the most pessimistic of Thucydidean theorists feared.

Today, the Thucydides Trap framework is increasingly deployed to describe America’s relationship with China, including within the administration. A likely conclusion from it would be to manage the rise of China in such a way as to avoid confrontation.

Bannon slammed this thinking, noting that working class and middle class Americans do not share the same stakes in “managing” China’s rise to economic hegemony. “It’s quite evident, and Pat Caddell and I talk about this a lot,” Bannon explained, “that America’s elites are quite comfortable with managing America’s decline.”​

National Review has long been the NEoCon Flagship for unlimited immigration and open borders trade.
John Zmirak: National Review Pundits Horrified by Trump’s ‘Vulgar’ Comments ‘Were Licking the Mud Off of George W. Bush’s Boots’ While He Allowed Iraq’s Christians to Be Ethnically Cleansed

National Review “let themselves be turned into the propaganda wing of the neo-conservative movement” during the George W. Bush administration, while ignoring the ethnic cleansing of Iraq’s Christian communities under Bush’s watch, said John Zmirak, Senior Editor of The Stream and author of the new Politically Incorrect Guide to Catholicism.
Zmirak made his comments during an interview with Breitbart Senior Editor-at-Large Rebecca Mansour Friday on SiriusXM’s Breitbart News Tonight.

National Review, said Zmirak, refused to countenance debate over the wisdom of invading Iraq during the Bush administration’s lead-up to the Iraq War, further refusing to publish criticisms of Bush’s prosecution of the Iraq War. He contrasted National Review’seditorial opposition to debate over the Iraq War with that of David Horowitz’s Frontpage Mag, which published competing views – both supportive and opposed – toward the Iraq War.​


Rick Manning: 'National Review Crowd Can’t Admit They Were Dead Wrong About Donald Trump'

“[Donald Trump] is the most conservative president in my lifetime, and I include Ronald Reagan,” opined Manning, reflecting on National Review’s ongoing framing of the 45th president as lacking conservative bona fides.

National Review’s 2016 “Against Trump” article derided then presidential candidate Donald Trump as a “philosophically unmoored political opportunist who would trash the broad conservative ideological consensus.”

Manning reflected on National Review’s expressed contempt for “white working class” communities, recalling the magazine’s 2016 cover story by Kevin Williamson which described predominantly white and rural communities as “dysfunctional and downscale.”

“White working class” communities “deserve to die,” wrote National Review’s Williamson in that 2016 cover article about then-candidate Trump’s voters. When confronted by criticism for this stance, the magazine doubled down.

Manning said Williamson was “dead wrong” that we should “let rural America die.”


“Rural America is being murdered,” explained Manning. “They weren’t dying, they were being murdered by trade laws that sent out jobs overseas, by tax laws that made it too expensive to build stuff here, and by environmental laws that strangle the life out of anybody who wants to grow anything, extract anything, or build anything.”

“And that’s why Kevin Williamson was dead wrong in his arrogance in believing that free trade was everything, when in fact what’s really important is having trade based on a level playing field,” said Manning. “America tied both hands behind her back in a boxing match trying to use our forehead to fight with. We’ll never be able to win that boxing match. Donald Trump’s changed the game.”

Mansour said she is “still appalled” by that Williamson National Review article.

“They were trying to write off these working class communities in the Rust Belt and these rural communities throughout America,” said Mansour. “And yet, this was the same National Review that shilled endlessly for the Bush administration’s wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and you know what? The sons and daughters of the very same people in these communities that National Review is telling us, ‘Oh, just let ‘em die off’ — those were the ones that went and fought the wars that National Review was shilling for. Those were the ones that bled in those wars. Those were the ones that came home injured from those wars, and National Review has the gall to then say, ‘Oh, your community should be allowed to die. You’re just lazy. You’re indefensible.'”

“It was the most appalling piece I had ever read,” said Manning of Williamson’s National Review cover article.​

The masses of working class Americans Trump has brought into the GOP will never relinquish control back to the neocons as they know what a collection of bastards these losers really are.


Who in the heck is this freak and why should anyone listen to him, his bio is non existant on the net.

For one thing Hillary is not pro abortion she is pro choice.

For another thing , while Rome is the new Babylon, its only because they totally destroyed the jewish temple same as Babylon and if they had not,

There would be no Christianity.
 
Trump's victory didn't come from "the American middle class". He didn't pick up many Democratic voters.

Trump won because Democrats stayed home.
 

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Who in the heck is this freak and why should anyone listen to him, his bio is non existant on the net.

Davdi Brat? You Google Fu is very weak, Grass Hopper.

For one thing Hillary is not pro abortion she is pro choice.

Lol, and Hitler wasnt Pro-Death Camp, he was pro-Solution.

My Gawd, do you realize what a semantic equivocation you engage in?


For another thing , while Rome is the new Babylon, its only because they totally destroyed the jewish temple same as Babylon and if they had not,

There would be no Christianity.

Bah, the church was founded decades prior to the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple, Dear.
 
Trump's victory didn't come from "the American middle class". He didn't pick up many Democratic voters.

Trump won because Democrats stayed home.
A lot of Bernie pouters.

I hope they realize what dicks they are.
 
The GOP lost me years ago.
My vote for Trump was in fact against the establishment of both parties who clearly both worked to make sure he wouldn't be elected.
Did the morons really think Bush would have even had half a chance?
As long as the party continues destiny politics they have lost me.
 
Who in the heck is this freak and why should anyone listen to him, his bio is non existant on the net.

Davdi Brat? You Google Fu is very weak, Grass Hopper.

For one thing Hillary is not pro abortion she is pro choice.

Lol, and Hitler wasnt Pro-Death Camp, he was pro-Solution.

My Gawd, do you realize what a semantic equivocation you engage in?


For another thing , while Rome is the new Babylon, its only because they totally destroyed the jewish temple same as Babylon and if they had not,

There would be no Christianity.

Bah, the church was founded decades prior to the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple, Dear.

Well its the same as you Pubs are pro birth but not pro life. The destruction of the Temple is what founded the church of Christianity. All the gospels are wrote after the destruction of the temple. The Gospels declare good news of the Rome's victory.

Please explain to me of how you come to the conclusion that the Church was founded before the destruction of Herods Temple.
 
The GOP thinks they can separate themselves from Trump. But they all voted for Trump's nominees when they knew their goal was the destruction of those departments.

They allowed Trump to end DACA, to allow more pollution, to pull out of the Paris Accord.

I know I will campaign against every fucking worthless POS Republican in the House & Senate. were the regulations that called for fines for elderly care institutions that abused their residents were ended.

They will need to answer things like why were the regulations that called for fines for elderly care institutions that abused their residents

And when that $15/week tax cut gets eaten by the increases in health insurance premiums caused by Trumo & higher internet fees caused by Trump, and the fist mining disaster caused by Trump's deregulation.

People live the environment more than corporate profits & CEOs making hundreds of millions.

When a couple more Trump's inner circle get indicted.

When people realize Trump lost the US leadership role in the world & gave it to China.

When they finally realize that Donald Trump is an ignorant fool.

The Republicans will not be able to separate themselves.
 
The GOP lost me years ago.
My vote for Trump was in fact against the establishment of both parties who clearly both worked to make sure he wouldn't be elected.
Did the morons really think Bush would have even had half a chance?
As long as the party continues destiny politics they have lost me.
So you are part of the problem. A trump voter.
 
The GOP lost me years ago.
My vote for Trump was in fact against the establishment of both parties who clearly both worked to make sure he wouldn't be elected.
Did the morons really think Bush would have even had half a chance?
As long as the party continues destiny politics they have lost me.
I totally agree.

Good thing you kept it short, most likely, lol.
 
The Democratic Party has not been able to win the majority of middle class voters in a presidential election since Carter
 
Well its the same as you Pubs are pro birth but not pro life.

I dont know a single pro-life person who would agree with that, while a great many 'pro-choice' people will admit to being pro-abortion and also support Chinas one child policy and use of forced abortion procedures.

The destruction of the Temple is what founded the church of Christianity. All the gospels are wrote after the destruction of the temple. The Gospels declare good news of the Rome's victory.

1. If you read the book called the Acts of the Apostles, the church was established while the Temple still stood.

2. The Christians of that time associated the destruction of the Temple with global destruction, and were fond of the Temple as they still thought of themselves as Jews.

3. No one in the early church celebrated Romes destruction of the Temple. They regarded its destruction as a sign of the Beast.

Please explain to me of how you come to the conclusion that the Church was founded before the destruction of Herods Temple.

The first gospel was given at the day of Pentecost after Jesus was crucified around 33 AD, while the Temple was destroyed about 30 years later.

The Acts of the Apostles, chapter 2
1When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them.
5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” 12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”
13 Some, however, made fun of them and said, “They have had too much wine.”
Peter Addresses the Crowd
14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15 These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 “‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
21 And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.’[c]
22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men,[d] put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. 25 David said about him:
“‘I saw the Lord always before me.
Because he is at my right hand,
I will not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
my body also will rest in hope,
27 because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead,
you will not let your holy one see decay.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will fill me with joy in your presence.’[e]
29 “Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,
“‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
35 until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”’[f]
36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”
37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
The Fellowship of the Believers
42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.​
 
I knew you were going to use Acts. Acts was said to of been wrote by Luke, I suspect otherwise, but in the Nabre 2011 , under the intro to Acts its says see intro to Luke (for dating) and this is what it says:

What reason would they start a new religion if the temple has not been destroyed? Have you ever read Josephus?
-----------------------------------------------------------

Early Christian tradition, from the late second century on, identifies the author of this gospel and of the Acts of the Apostles as Luke, a Syrian from Antioch, who is mentioned in the New Testament in Col 4:14, Phlm 24 and 2 Tm 4:11. The prologue of the gospel makes it clear that Luke is not part of the first generation of Christian disciples but is himself dependent upon the traditions he received from those who were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word (Lk 1:2). His two-volume work marks him as someone who was highly literate both in the Old Testament traditions according to the Greek versions and in Hellenistic Greek writings.

Among the likely sources for the composition of this gospel (Lk 1:3) were the Gospel of Mark, a written collection of sayings of Jesus known also to the author of the Gospel of Matthew (Q; see Introduction to Matthew), and other special traditions that were used by Luke alone among the gospel writers. Some hold that Luke used Mark only as a complementary source for rounding out the material he took from other traditions. Because of its dependence on the Gospel of Mark and because details in Luke’s Gospel (Lk 13:35a; 19:4344; 21:20; 23:2831) imply that the author was acquainted with the destruction of the city of Jerusalem by the Romans in A.D. 70, the Gospel of Luke is dated by most scholars after that date; many propose A.D. 80–90 as the time of composition.

scripture

 
I knew you were going to use Acts. Acts was said to of been wrote by Luke, I suspect otherwise, but in the Nabre 2011 , under the intro to Acts its says see intro to Luke (for dating) and this is what it says:

What reason would they start a new religion if the temple has not been destroyed? Have you ever read Josephus?
-----------------------------------------------------------

Early Christian tradition, from the late second century on, identifies the author of this gospel and of the Acts of the Apostles as Luke, a Syrian from Antioch, who is mentioned in the New Testament in Col 4:14, Phlm 24 and 2 Tm 4:11. The prologue of the gospel makes it clear that Luke is not part of the first generation of Christian disciples but is himself dependent upon the traditions he received from those who were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word (Lk 1:2). His two-volume work marks him as someone who was highly literate both in the Old Testament traditions according to the Greek versions and in Hellenistic Greek writings.

Among the likely sources for the composition of this gospel (Lk 1:3) were the Gospel of Mark, a written collection of sayings of Jesus known also to the author of the Gospel of Matthew (Q; see Introduction to Matthew), and other special traditions that were used by Luke alone among the gospel writers. Some hold that Luke used Mark only as a complementary source for rounding out the material he took from other traditions. Because of its dependence on the Gospel of Mark and because details in Luke’s Gospel (Lk 13:35a; 19:4344; 21:20; 23:2831) imply that the author was acquainted with the destruction of the city of Jerusalem by the Romans in A.D. 70, the Gospel of Luke is dated by most scholars after that date; many propose A.D. 80–90 as the time of composition.

scripture

I was addressing a specific point that you raised that the church was initiated after the destruction of the Temple, which is obviously not true.

These secular 'authorities' are basing their dating on the assumption that Luke could not have given such specific details for the destruction of Jerusalem unless he wrote after the fact, but he was recording a prophesy by Jesus that saved the lives of the Christian church which escaped the slaughter by Rome of the Jewish population in Jerusalem specificaly because of Jesus prophesy.

So the prophesy obviously predates the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem or the Christian community would have nothing to act on at the time.

And yes I have read Josephus who wrote nearly a century after the establishment of the church, so he was obviously not a primary source of those events.

So the Temple still stood at the time the church was established, so dont change the subject to some blather about Josephus when you are completely wrong on the point in question, lol.

And it might shock you but many authorities of the church date Luke much earlier and Mark was apparently written prior to the destruction of the Temple which obliterates another shibboleth you were claiming as well about the Gospels being about the destruction of the Temple.
 
I knew you were going to use Acts. Acts was said to of been wrote by Luke, I suspect otherwise, but in the Nabre 2011 , under the intro to Acts its says see intro to Luke (for dating) and this is what it says:

What reason would they start a new religion if the temple has not been destroyed? Have you ever read Josephus?
-----------------------------------------------------------

Early Christian tradition, from the late second century on, identifies the author of this gospel and of the Acts of the Apostles as Luke, a Syrian from Antioch, who is mentioned in the New Testament in Col 4:14, Phlm 24 and 2 Tm 4:11. The prologue of the gospel makes it clear that Luke is not part of the first generation of Christian disciples but is himself dependent upon the traditions he received from those who were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word (Lk 1:2). His two-volume work marks him as someone who was highly literate both in the Old Testament traditions according to the Greek versions and in Hellenistic Greek writings.

Among the likely sources for the composition of this gospel (Lk 1:3) were the Gospel of Mark, a written collection of sayings of Jesus known also to the author of the Gospel of Matthew (Q; see Introduction to Matthew), and other special traditions that were used by Luke alone among the gospel writers. Some hold that Luke used Mark only as a complementary source for rounding out the material he took from other traditions. Because of its dependence on the Gospel of Mark and because details in Luke’s Gospel (Lk 13:35a; 19:4344; 21:20; 23:2831) imply that the author was acquainted with the destruction of the city of Jerusalem by the Romans in A.D. 70, the Gospel of Luke is dated by most scholars after that date; many propose A.D. 80–90 as the time of composition.

scripture

I was addressing a specific point that you raised that the church was initiated after the destruction of the Temple, which is obviously not true.

These secular 'authorities' are basing their dating on the assumption that Luke could not have given such specific details for the destruction of Jerusalem unless he wrote after the fact, but he was recording a prophesy by Jesus that saved the lives of the Christian church which escaped the slaughter by Rome of the Jewish population in Jerusalem specificaly because of Jesus prophesy.

So the prophesy obviously predates the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem or the Christian community would have nothing to act on at the time.

And yes I have read Josephus who wrote nearly a century after the establishment of the church, so he was obviously not a primary source of those events.

So the Temple still stood at the time the church was established, so dont change the subject to some blather about Josephus when you are completely wrong on the point in question, lol.

And it might shock you but many authorities of the church date Luke much earlier and Mark was apparently written prior to the destruction of the Temple which obliterates another shibboleth you were claiming as well about the Gospels being about the destruction of the Temple.

All of it is wrote after the destruction of the temple by what I have read. The Jews loved Julius Caesar,
Julius Caesar°
as they did King Cyrus.

I suspect Paul is Josephus, and Josephus was a zealot , its in his writing and of course was captured by Vespasian and then remained in Rome, writing. He at first wanted to fight against the Romans, and then he was pro Roman.
 
I suspect Paul is Josephus, and Josephus was a zealot , its in his writing and of course was captured by Vespasian and then remained in Rome, writing. He at first wanted to fight against the Romans, and then he was pro Roman.

Paul was not Josephus.

Mark was not written after the destruction of the Temple.

The church was established at Pentecost after the Crucifixion, not after the destruction of the Temple.

No Christians were anything other than horrified at the destruction of the ancient Temple.
 

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