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Why the Doctrines of the Jehovah Witnesses are not acceptable as Christian

Gracie

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Are you a JW or have been excommuicated? Because your insistence they don't believe in Jesus is TOTALLY WRONG. You are spreading false info and should be ashamed, but you have a grudge against them for some warped reason.
 

RetiredGySgt

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Are you a JW or have been excommuicated? Because your insistence they don't believe in Jesus is TOTALLY WRONG. You are spreading false info and should be ashamed, but you have a grudge against them for some warped reason.
The JW Mormons and other such groups are bad mouthed by the believers in a trinity all the time.
 

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It appears many Jehovah's Witnesses believe that too. Then they talk to me. ;) (A couple of them never returned, but I think that was more because I was able to point out more optimistic passages than they had somber passages.)

The older person of one couple hustled the younger one out the door when she started nodding enthusiastically at the passages I introduced. Neither returned. I guess we Catholics and our Biblical knowledge are kind of scary. We read through the Bible every three years, just at Sunday Mass. Every year for those who attend Mass daily.

My experience has been Jehovah's Witnesses are good people.
There is a JW church here in St Pete, and they used to come by on a regular basis. I stumble on their interpretation of Jesus, and I can’t quite figure out how they view him. They seem to think that he is king of the angels, but not God.

And their insistence that only 144,000 will be saved is convoluted. There will be countless multitudes saved, even during the Tribulation, there will be countless people who accept Christ. There will be angels in the sky preaching the Gospel.
 

RetiredGySgt

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There is a JW church here in St Pete, and they used to come by on a regular basis. I stumble on their interpretation of Jesus, and I can’t quite figure out how they view him. They seem to think that he is king of the angels, but not God.

And their insistence that only 144,000 will be saved is convoluted. There will be countless multitudes saved, even during the Tribulation, there will be countless people who accept Christ. There will be angels in the sky preaching the Gospel.
they dont believe only 144k will be saved, they believe only 144k will ascend to heaven the rest will remain on a restored earth ruled by Jesus. The 144k that go to heaven will help by providing assistance to Jesus as he rules.
 

Plow Boy

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they dont believe only 144k will be saved, they believe only 144k will ascend to heaven the rest will remain on a restored earth ruled by Jesus. The 144k that go to heaven will help by providing assistance to Jesus as he rules.
From JW.org

Yes. We believe in Jesus, who said: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) We have faith that Jesus came to earth from heaven and gave his perfect human life as a ransom sacrifice. (Matthew 20:28) His death and resurrection make it possible for those exercising faith in him to gain everlasting life. (John 3:16)

We also believe that Jesus is now ruling as King of God’s heavenly Kingdom, which will soon bring peace to the entire earth. (Revelation 11:15) However, we take Jesus at his word when he said: “The Father is greater than I am.” (John 14:28) So we do not worship Jesus, as we do not believe that he is Almighty God.

End of quote:

I am not going to rant and rave or anything, but I do believe that Jesus is God. And it seems to me that the JW weaken that proposition, but how can anyone but God do what Jesus did?

OK, I’m done.
 

RetiredGySgt

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From JW.org

Yes. We believe in Jesus, who said: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) We have faith that Jesus came to earth from heaven and gave his perfect human life as a ransom sacrifice. (Matthew 20:28) His death and resurrection make it possible for those exercising faith in him to gain everlasting life. (John 3:16)

We also believe that Jesus is now ruling as King of God’s heavenly Kingdom, which will soon bring peace to the entire earth. (Revelation 11:15) However, we take Jesus at his word when he said: “The Father is greater than I am.” (John 14:28) So we do not worship Jesus, as we do not believe that he is Almighty God.

End of quote:

I am not going to rant and rave or anything, but I do believe that Jesus is God. And it seems to me that the JW weaken that proposition, but how can anyone but God do what Jesus did?

OK, I’m done.
Jesus is not God nor is the Holy Spirit God. They are 3 distinct beings or forces.
 

kjw47

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Fallen beings look to people like the Jehovah witnesses to believe lies. Those days will be shortened for the elects sake.


Who believes Jesus? John 20:17---The JW,S or (the trinitarians? all 33,000 different trinity religions of a house divided that will NOT stand? 1Cor 1:10-- again they fail 100% to believe Gods word. There is 0 division with the real Jesus.
 

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Jehovah witnesses denying Jesus is the Lord of Glory are making the same error Christs enemies made, ending up piercing the Lord of glory.

1 Corinthians 2:8 “Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.” John 18:36 36Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence." Jesus was an alien. There should be no Jehovah witnesses reading what I posted.​

He was speaking of Gods kingdom rule in heaven. Its coming to this earth soon.
 

Iamartiewhitefox

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Are you a JW or have been excommuicated? Because your insistence they don't believe in Jesus is TOTALLY WRONG. You are spreading false info and should be ashamed, but you have a grudge against them for some warped reason.
IT is what JWs think Jesus is. Jesus will not deny himself. Jesus is the Lord of Glory, Jesus would not have been crucified had people seen that. Satan would have lost no matter what
 

Iamartiewhitefox

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The JW Mormons and other such groups are bad mouthed by the believers in a trinity all the time.
I have guided Mormons, that I saw walking two by two. They are growing in knowledge. JW people seem to be stuck in a rut, not being able to get out. Trinity is not what you think. Jesus and the Unseen Father are one. That is two names. Jesus guides people into all truth, being the Holy Spirit. All are one.
 

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There is a JW church here in St Pete, and they used to come by on a regular basis. I stumble on their interpretation of Jesus, and I can’t quite figure out how they view him. They seem to think that he is king of the angels, but not God.

And their insistence that only 144,000 will be saved is convoluted. There will be countless multitudes saved, even during the Tribulation, there will be countless people who accept Christ. There will be angels in the sky preaching the Gospel.
Many are called. Few are chosen. People need to have a strong foundation in order to be safe to have, in God's kingdom.
 

Gracie

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IT is what JWs think Jesus is. Jesus will not deny himself. Jesus is the Lord of Glory, Jesus would not have been crucified had people seen that. Satan would have lost no matter what
So you THINK you know what other people think. Mightly goddishlike, ain't it?
You are no better than the organized religion leaders claiming all other denominations are wrong and only THEY are right. You have no shame after all. You just sit in judgement. Some day, the same will be done to you, bubba.

With that said...you are fake news. JW's do NOT believe as you insist. They are not my cuppa, but neither are catholics or baptists or mormons or epicopalians or ________________ insert religion here.
This thread is nothing but lies and misinformation. Pretty sure Jesus would be frowning on your form of defending Him. Then again, I don't speak for Him but you have no problem doing so. Until its your turn.

Bugger off with your nonsense.

/thread. And iggie list because I have no patience for bigots.
 

Iamartiewhitefox

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He was speaking of Gods kingdom rule in heaven. Its coming to this earth soon.
Saved will be levitated off of this earth. They will go into the New Jerusalem. It will be away from the earth for 1000 years. Satan and the fallen angels will contemplate what they did, and the results of their rebellion, on the earth. No humans, being alive is what chains Satan. That which is seen cannot chain that gold and gem covered being. The minds of fallen angels will not change in that 1000 year period of time. Jesus who is God created angels. We are in Christs image. Jesus made us. Jesus is the King of Shalom, or King of Peace.
 

Iamartiewhitefox

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So you THINK you know what other people think. Mightly goddishlike, ain't it?
You are no better than the organized religion leaders claiming all other denominations are wrong and only THEY are right. You have no shame after all. You just sit in judgement. Some day, the same will be done to you, bubba.

With that said...you are fake news. JW's do NOT believe as you insist. They are not my cuppa, but neither are catholics or baptists or mormons or epicopalians or ________________ insert religion here.
This thread is nothing but lies and misinformation. Pretty sure Jesus would be frowning on your form of defending Him. Then again, I don't speak for Him but you have no problem doing so. Until its your turn.

Bugger off with your nonsense.

/thread. And iggie list because I have no patience for bigots.
Yip, Yip, Yep. Eternal torment is wrong. The church makes Satan to be right, saying, thou shalt not surly die, with eternal torment. You want to make Satan to be right? I study on my own. I am not controlled by anyone. I condemn no one. I edify they that say truth. Devils will not do that. Fire givers will get fire. I give the water of life. JWs need to beleive what I say, for their salvations sake. They attack Cartoon characters for crying out loud. A person thought: l am going to make a raping cartoon character? A mad man will think that happened. SJW people accuse Pepe Le Pew a cartoon skunk, of being a rapist. That is false. A condeming spirit is talking through them. A spirit like that will lie. We can have more than one wife. Jacob, Reaboahm, and Solomon had more than one wife and concubines. That is a hot potato for the church, not talking about that. I guide all of them. Jamie's 1:26 - 27, KJV is one, not many. Jesus did what is described. Jesus controlled what he said. You cannot speak for Jesus. He is not in you, right now. Bigots' attack zoophilia people, and nude people, and gays, etc. I don't do that. The church says, gift of God, saying thou shalt surly pay a price contradicting what they say regarding the word gift. Jesus obeyed the Unseen Father who is the gift giver, of all gift givers. We need to be that way with each other. Money being used, makes gift giving to be a lie.
 
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Iamartiewhitefox

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He was speaking of Gods kingdom rule in heaven. Its coming to this earth soon.
The earth and all things on it will melt, when Jesus comes back. Satan wants to simulate that standing on the earth, calling fire down from the sky in the sight of men. We can frighten that being insomuch to keep that being from doing that. That being wants to be worshiped in a really bad way. People are bowing down to that being in the legal system and truth less church. Islam is doing the same thing. Sodom and Gomorrah people, wanting people to be a condeming judge. Satan is not what the church says. Satan is an extremely colorful being, covered with gold, and every precious gem.
 
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Baron

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The Jehovah Witnesses do not believe in the deity of Christ. They have distorted the Bible to suit their doctrine. They believe in works (including going door to door) as the means of salvation.

JEHOVAH WITNESS AND THE DEITY OF CHRIST​

HOME | APOLOGETICS | JEHOVAH WITNESS AND THE DEITY OF CHRIST

Exposing False Teaching: Jehovah Witness & The Deity of Christ
Sky Cline
The purpose of this document is to provide a clear and succinct resource for Christians who encounter false teaching. This particular document focuses on one major false teaching propagated by the Jehovah Witness sect. Bear in mind that like most sects, there are a plethora of incorrect teachings, and false prophecies, however, the Jehovah Witnesses’ denial of Christ’s divinity is perhaps the most central. One central false teaching from the Jehovah Witness sect is their denial of Christ’s deity—that is, that Jesus was fully God. Jehovah Witnesses believe, “Jesus was only a perfect man, not God in flesh,” Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985, pp. 306. Before and after Jesus’ incarnation they believe that Jesus was (and now is) the archangel Michael, “Jesus was Michael the archangel who became a man, The Watchtower, May 15, 1963, p. 307; The New World, 284. The divinity of Christ is a central Christian doctrine firmly grounded in the Bible. Below are a list of Scriptures that clearly demonstrate the divine nature of Jesus of Nazareth. Jehovah Witnesses, support their false view of Christ, in part, on their false translation of Scripture: The New World Translation (NWT). The New World Translation was translated by 5 Jehovah Witness men in 1950 (Information supplied by former Governing Body Official, Raymond Franz-Crisis of Conscience). The seven translations of Scripture we have chosen for comparison are recognized to be the most accurate in the English language. Together they represent more than 400 Bible scholars from a wide variety of denominations and countries. One can easily see how the NWT “translators” have purposefully distorted Scripture in order to support their heretical view of Christ’s nature.
(All underlined words or phrases below are for emphasis only)
Scripture quotations are from The Holy Bible, English Standard Version, copyright © 2007 by Crossway Bibles, a division of Good News Publishers. Used by permission. All rights reserved.
VERSENASB, ESV, NIV, RSV, HCSB, KJV, NKJV(representing over 400 translators from different Christian denominations)New World Translation (NWT) (Jehovah Witness Bible) (representing 5 JW translators)Commentary
Matthew 28:17 (also 28:9, Philip. 2:9-10, Heb. 1:6, Rev.5:14)And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubtedand when they saw him they did obeisance, but some doubtedWorship is reserved for God alone. (Ex. 20:5, Acts 14:15, 20:26, Rev. 19:10) In many places Jesus is worshiped by both angels and mankind. All references to the worship of Jesus have been systematically deleted or obscured in the NWT.
John 1:1;14a(see also Isaiah 45:21)In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.And the Word became flesh and dwelt among usIn [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.Since in verse 1 “the Word was God” and in verse 14 “the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,” it is clear the Jesus is God. The NWT state Jesus was “a god.” Ps. 96:5 states, “For all the gods of the peoples are worthless idols, but the LORD made the heavens.” Or “Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me” (Isaiah 45:21)
John 8:58Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”Jesus’ statement was a clear reference to his identification as God. In Exodus 3:14 God identified himself to Moses as, “I am”, God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you. The NWT uses “I have been”-clearly intended to obscure the divinity of Jesus-clearly a false tranlsation of the Greek “ego eimi”-I AM.
John 14:11 (also 10:38)“I am in the Father and the Father is in me.”“I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me.”A verse that underscores the unity of the Godhead, and the divinity of Christ. The NWT inserts the word “union” which is not in any Greek manuscripts.
John 20:28Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”In answer Thomas said to him: “My Lord and my God!”This is a rare gem found in the NWT: a clear declaration of Christ’s deity that has not been edited away.
1 Corinthians 10:4 (Isaiah 44:8)For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.For they used to drink from the spiritual rock-mass that followed them, and that rock-mass meant the Christ.In the Old Testament the LORD (Yahweh) is often referred to as the “Rock.” (Dt. 32:4, 2 Sam. 22:3, Ps. 89:26, Is. 44:8) Who followed Moses and the Israelites in the wilderness?-None other than God. The NWT attempts to mislead the implication with “rock-mass” when the word in Greek is “petras” simply means “rock.” Also the Greek states that “the Rock was Christ” There is no Greek word for “meant” here. Another clear false insertion to obscure the meaning of the text.
Colossians 1:16See. John 1:3, Isaiah 44:24For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities–all things were created through him and for him.because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him.Who created all things? “Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb:
“I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself,” (Isaiah 44:24) Since the LORD (Yahweh) alonecreated all things Colossians 1:16 clearly demonstrates the deity of Christ. That is why the NWT places the word “other” in the text. The word “other” is found in no Greek manuscripts.
Colossians 1:19For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwellbecause [God] saw good for all fullness to dwell in himAll translations make it clear the fullness of God was pleased to dwell in Christ. I’m not sure we understand the meaning of the NWT.
Colossians 2:9“in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”“it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily.”The Greek “theotetos” means Deity or Divinity not “divine quality.” Again, because of their denial of the divinity of Christ, the translators have systematically attempted to blur practically all references to Christ’s divine nature.
Hebrews 1:3He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power.He is the reflection of [his] glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power;In this example Christ is the exact imprint (or duplicate) of the nature/essence (hypostaseos) of God. A clear attestation to the deity of Jesus.
Hebrews 1:8“But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne O God will last forever.’”“with reference to the Son: ‘ God is your throne forever and ever.”God speaks about the Son identifying him as “God.” (Not so in the NWT)
Hebrews 1:6“Let all God’s angels worship him.”“Let all God angels do obeisance to him.”As we have seen before the NWT never ascribe worship to Jesus, knowing that if that be so he can be neither man nor angel, but indeed Almighty God! (Isaiah 9:6)
2 Peter 1:1(same issue found in Titus 2:13)To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christto those who have obtained a faith, held in equal privilege with ours, by the righteousness of our God and [the] Savior Jesus ChristThe definite article “the” may seem like a detail, but notice how that insertion in the NWT changes the meaning of the text. It clearly attempts to dull the implication the unity between Jesus and God. “The” is not found in any Greek manuscripts.
Isaiah 9:6For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace
For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of PeaceA Messianic prophecy regarding Jesus of Nazareth. Notice one of his names is “Mighty God.”
Further support for the divinity of Christ are the attributes that Jesus shares with God the Father. Below are a few examples.
The Attributes of Jesus.
Creator.
Scripture unambiguously teaches that “God” created all things. In fact, in Isaiah 44:24, the Bible says the LORD (Yahweh) alone created the heavens and earth. In Colossians 1:16 Scripture teaches Jesus created all things. This is an unmistakable declaration of the divinity of Jesus of Nazareth.
1. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1)
2. Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb:”I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself,” (Isaiah 44:24)
3. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities–all things were created through him and for him. (Colossians 1:16)
Worship
Jesus received worship from both angels and mankind. (Matthew 28:9, 17, Philippians 2:10, Hebrews 1:6, Revelation 5) Worship is reserved exclusively for God (not to either mankind or angels). (Exodus 20:5, Acts 14:15, 20:26, Revelation 19:10)
Authority to Forgive Sins
Scripture teaches that God alone has the authority to forgive sin. (Isaiah 43:25, Psalm 32:5, Psalm 130) This same attribute is a part of Jesus’ ministry.
“And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “My son, your sins are forgiven.” Now some of the scribes were sitting there, questioning in their hearts, “Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
(Mark 2:5-7)
Omnipresence “For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.” (Matthew 18:20) One of the attributes of God is omnipresence: that is being at all places at all times. In the above verse Jesus told his disciples that he wherever 2 or 3 are gathered in his name he would be present. This is impossible for an angel or man to accomplish.
Inherent Authority-to declare the Words of God In the Old Testament the prophets always prefaced their prophetic statements with, “thus saith the LORD.” They did this to demonstrate the source and hence authority of the words. When Jesus utters the words of God he makes no such preface, but rather says, “I say”. (not as the prophets, “thus saith the LORD.” (Matt. 5:22, 28, 32, 34, 39, 44)
The Titles of the Father and the Son.
Another convincing piece of evidence for the deity of Christ are the “titles” that are bestowed on both the Father and the Son. Here are a few examples.
First and the Last
Father: Thus says the LORD (Yahweh), the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD (Yahweh) of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.” (Isaiah 44:6) Clearly, the title, “I am the first and the last” in this verse is in reference to the LORD (Yahweh). See also Isaiah 41:4, 44:12.
Son: When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades. (Revelation 1:17-18)
Son: And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the first and the last, who died and came to life. (Revelation 2:8) These last 2 references are clearly referring to Jesus. Therefore the same title “I am the first and the last” is bestowed on both the Father and the Son.
Alpha & Omega
Closely related to First and Last is the title Alpha and Omega. Alpha is the first letter of the Greek alphabet and Omega the last, hence the relationship to First and Last. There are 3 references to the title Alpha and Omega in the book of Revelation:
Father: I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” (Revelation 1:8)
Father: And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. (Revelation 21:8)
Son: “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay everyone for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” (Revelation 22:16)
The first 2 references are clearly referring to “God.” The 3rd reference is definitely referring to the Son, since he is the one “coming soon.” (see 1:7, 22:16, 20) Therefore the title Alpha and Omega is applied to both the Father and the Son interchangeably.
King of Kings and Lord of Lords
Father: “which he will display at the proper time–he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen” (1 Timothy 6:15-16, see also Deuteronomy 10:17, Psalm 136:3) All references to the Father.
Son: They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful. (Revelation 17:14)
Son: “On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.” (Revelation 19:16) A clear reference to Jesus. Another title that is used for both God the Father and God the Son.
Jehovah Witness Arguments:
Colossians 1:15 is a key Scripture Jehovah’s Witnesses us to substantiate their belief, that Jesus is a created being: “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.” Colossians 1:15
Does “firstborn” mean “first created” as Jehovah Witnesses teach, “Thus he is shown to be a created being, part of the creation produced by God” (Reasoning from Scriptures, 1989, 409)?
  • First: Jesus was not the “first created” since Colossians 1:16 states he created all things. If he himself were created he couldn’t have created all things. (that is why the NWT inserts the word “other.”)
  • Second: In fact Scripture teaches that Jesus created all angels, and all worship him. (Hebrews 1:6) (JW believe Jesus is the archangel Michael.)
  • Third: In Scripture the word “firstborn” carries the meaning “supreme” or “preeminent,” not first created. The firstborn son usually had this special status. In Col. 1:15, “firstborn of all creation” means he is supreme over creation since all things were created by him (1:16). Jesus is supreme over creation because he is its author and creator. (see also John 1:3)
  • Fourth: “Firstborn” is also used in relation to Christ’s preeminence or supremacy over death since he was the first to conquer death by his resurrection from the dead. (Col. 1:18, Rev. 1:5)
  • Fifth: “Firstborn” doesn’t necessarily mean “first.” King David is referred to in Scripture (Psalm 89:27) as the “firstborn,” though he had 7 older brothers! David was not “first-created;” David was preeminent. In fact Scripture teaches David was “firstborn” over all the kings of the earth. (Psalm 89:27) Clearly he was preeminent over all kings, not the first-created king.
  • Sixth: Israel is the LORD’s “firstborn son” (Exodus 4:22). Israel was by no means the “first created” people of God. There are many nations that precede Israel. Similarly in Jeremiah 31:9 the LORD says, “Ephraim is my firstborn son.” Ephraim was not the LORD’s “first created” son. He was one of Joseph’s sons and became the name of the northern kindom.
  • Therefore it is abundantly clear that in Scripture firstborn does not mean first created. This is a clear misunderstanding.
“You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28)
  • First, in the gospel of John, Scripture clearly presents Jesus as God. (John 1:1,3,14, 8:58, 10:30, 14:11, 20:28)
  • Second, Christ voluntarily “humbled himself” (Philippians 2:8). Christ’s humility is misunderstood for difference in ontology (essence/nature). This is a common mistake in Jehovah Witness interpretation.
  • Third: It is possible (for example) for an earthly father and son to be of the same essence or nature (human) but have different roles or positions.
Implications for the Atonement
  • First, Jehovah Witnesses believe that while on earth Jesus was a perfect man. Before and after his earthly existence he was (and is) the archangel Michael.
  • No human could have bore the sins of the world in his body. Only God could bear the weight and terror of sin.
  • No human could have bore the wrath of God for all sin. Not only did Jesus bear our sin, but he also bore the punishment due sin, therefore appeasing the wrath of Almighty God.
  • No mere human could have been an adequate mediator between God and Man, unless he was both fully God and fully man. (1 Timothy 2:5)
  • In Cur Deus Homo, Why God became a man, St. Anselm (1033-1109) states in regards to the Atonement that, “For God will not do it, because he has no debt to pay; and man will not do it, because he cannot. Therefore, in order that the God-man may perform this, it is necessary that the same being should perfect God and perfect man, in order to make this atonement.” (Chapter VII) Thus only God could take away man’s sins and only man needed them to be taken away.
Conclusion: The Scripture teaches that Jesus was both fully man and fully God. The few examples that we have outlined above make this fact abundantly clear. It is equally clear that the New World Translation has deliberately attempted to bury this cardinal Christian doctrine.

In difference to more as 90% dead churches JW are still alive and look like more Christian as the communist pope or another church 'leaders'
 

Iamartiewhitefox

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In difference to more as 90% dead churches JW are still alive and look like more Christian as the communist pope or another church 'leaders'
JW people will believe the other church's when they no longer torment others with fear giving laws. That will happen when those law are no more. The church cannot teach the JW people what the truth is, not living like Jesus. The laws that exist are undeniable proof of that. JW people think that denial of earthly things makes a person to not be of the world, which is poppy cock. What made them think in that way? The churches who don't know what the truth is. Take the beam out of your eye. Demons are laughing at you. People who are like Jesus will have pleasant speech, not being offended by what is seen. They will not be of the world. Jesus is not of the world. Jesus said that to Pontious Pilate. God has things in his kingdom that no one has seen.
 
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kjw47

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The earth and all things on it will melt, when Jesus comes back. Satan wants to simulate that standing on the earth, calling fire down from the sky in the sight of men. We can frighten that being insomuch to keep that being from doing that. That being wants to be worshiped in a really bad way. People are bowing down to that being in the legal system and truth less church. Islam is doing the same thing. Sodom and Gomorrah people, wanting people to be a condeming judge. Satan is not what the church says. Satan is an extremely colorful being, covered with gold, and every precious gem.
I never heard anything like this before. Its far from truth.
 

Iamartiewhitefox

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I never heard anything like this before. Its far from truth.

This is going to be an extensive study.​

2 Peter 3:10-18: 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.​

Deuteronomy 32:22“For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.”​

Psalms 50:3 “Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.”​

Hebrews 12:29 "For our God is a consuming fire."

Jamies 1:27 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.​

1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.​

Revelation 20:5“But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

Malachi 4:3“And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.”​

Rev 6:4, And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.​

Isaiah 13:10“For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine." That is a simultaneous event.​

This talks about satan.

Matthew 24:15“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)”​

Mark 13:14“But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:”​

Revelation 4:4“And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.”​

We ought to stand on the earth, not the Fallen Lucifer as that being is. Abomination of Desolation is Satan. That being made stars to be gas clouds, when that being was chosen to be our master.​

Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth. Set did not make gas clouds.​

Revelation 4:4 “And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.”

The legal system is Satan's fear giving throne on the earth, imitating God's throne that has 24 seats around it.​

King James Version (KJV)​

Genesis 19:9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.: There was one person coming to Lots door, not many, which is depicted in videos. Sodomites were defiled religious people.​

Isaiah 1:10-20:10 Hear the word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.​

11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.​

12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?​

13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.​

14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.​

15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.​

16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;​

17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.​

18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.​

19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:​

20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.​

What is talked about below is not an earthy king. There were no earthly kings in the Garden of Eden. Satan is devoured from the inside out in the sight of men being burned up.​

Ezekiel 28:13-19: 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.​

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.​

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.​

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.​

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.​

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.​

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.​

 
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