Why so little serious debate?

[Chuz Life]

This was kind of a general flame to one and all, eh?

No.

I'm just trying to find the people who are willing and able to debate a topic with something close to the rigor with which scholars do, that is with strong essays and research papers (including scholarly references) shared among their peers. I have no interest in a "tweet war" or "doing the dozens" or in making simplistic points about weighty and expansive topics. What's the point of that? There's no substantive discussion to be had there.

You are in the wrong place. No one here will expend that kind of time for an internet forum. If that is what you want, I suggest a venue that is devoted to people whose activities are a serious policy debate, not relaxation.

expend that kind of time for an internet forum.

The seriousness of debate or discussion is not a function of time. It is a function of intellectual and discursive integrity, which are things that one can exhibit and permit to be time consuming or not.

No, it is a function of worth and time. People come to forums like this for many reasons. I've been a member of this forum for while now.

I can tell you that a majority of them come here for the thrill of insulting people. Many of them are trying to lift insults to an artform, as witness the flame zone. Others, as have already replied in this thread, come here for fun and entertainment. Often, that is in the form of insulting. Others yet come here to ensure that the voice of the opposition does not go unanswered based on the notion that if only one side is voicing their opinion, then they must be speaking the truth. This is one of the reasons I come to this forum.

I started frequenting internet forums in early 2000 when the new defunct MSNBC forums were active. I have been on many of them, from CNN, ABC, Yahoo, and of course, Hannity. They all have one thing in common. No one is there for long, protracted debates that require hours of research to justify given responses. I did all that when I was getting My undergrad degree, and put up with some snobbish professors when I was working on My Masters. The one thing they had in common, the research had a goal.

What goal is there for Me to provide academic level research to a bunch of people who will just deny the validity of the sources based upon bias. Even you, with your scholarly references, would refuse any reference that was not written by biased, university professors who follow a peer review policy that is nothing more than crony academia.

So, unless you are willing to pay Me for My time, I'll reserve the academic research for letters and white papers I send to My Senator and Congressmen, not that I think they'd make the effort to change anything. It would, however, be a much better use of My time.

Others yet come here to ensure that the voice of the opposition does not go unanswered based on the notion that if only one side is voicing their opinion, then they must be speaking the truth.

There is only the truth, not your truth and/or my truth.

Truth is a demure lady, much too ladylike to knock you on your head and drag you to her cave. She is there, but people must want her, and seek her out.
― William F. Buckley Jr.​

The one thing they had in common, the research was a goal.

Your programs were, then, quite different from mine. For my profs and me, the research was but a means to an end, not the end itself.

long, protracted debates that require hours of research to justify given responses.

I too am not keen to perform hours of research to post here, so I understand that others also would not care to do so. The most I'll do is bother to provide references that credibly corroborate the assertions I make. Truly, the only reason I do that here is because I'm unwilling to yield my anonymity -- in the "real world," I don't need to do that for when I'm presenting my thoughts on a topic, the audience members are already certain that I know what the hell I'm talking about. Here, nobody knows who I am or what specific achievements I've made in my life or in what disciples I'm expert; thus it's incumbent on me to present credible references to corroborate what I write. That's nothing more than one of the many manifestations of discursive integrity, and it's a manifestation of respect for others' intelligence.

What goal is there for Me to provide academic level research to a bunch of people who will just deny the validity of the sources

Each of us must define our goals. You're better than I can, for yourself, answer that question.

I don't do "academic level" research for my posts. I merely reference content I'm already aware of prior to posting. To be sure, I do not and will not conjure a topic for discussion here, head off and research it, and then here post a "academic level" essay on the topic. Insofar as I won't for posting here do that, I hardly can expect others to do so.

In my exchanges with you - you ran from the truth like a cockroach from a kitchen light.

 

[Picaro]

In my exchanges with you - you ran from the truth like a cockroach from a kitchen light.

lol true, and now his new gimmick is having mods close his threads when they aren't to his liking; he wants to spout nonsense and then have everybody's posts deleted that don't fit his nutjob viewpoints. lol what a hoot.

 

[ChrisL]

No.

I'm just trying to find the people who are willing and able to debate a topic with something close to the rigor with which scholars do, that is with strong essays and research papers (including scholarly references) shared among their peers. I have no interest in a "tweet war" or "doing the dozens" or in making simplistic points about weighty and expansive topics. What's the point of that? There's no substantive discussion to be had there.

You are in the wrong place. No one here will expend that kind of time for an internet forum. If that is what you want, I suggest a venue that is devoted to people whose activities are a serious policy debate, not relaxation.

expend that kind of time for an internet forum.

The seriousness of debate or discussion is not a function of time. It is a function of intellectual and discursive integrity, which are things that one can exhibit and permit to be time consuming or not.

No, it is a function of worth and time. People come to forums like this for many reasons. I've been a member of this forum for while now.

I can tell you that a majority of them come here for the thrill of insulting people. Many of them are trying to lift insults to an artform, as witness the flame zone. Others, as have already replied in this thread, come here for fun and entertainment. Often, that is in the form of insulting. Others yet come here to ensure that the voice of the opposition does not go unanswered based on the notion that if only one side is voicing their opinion, then they must be speaking the truth. This is one of the reasons I come to this forum.

I started frequenting internet forums in early 2000 when the new defunct MSNBC forums were active. I have been on many of them, from CNN, ABC, Yahoo, and of course, Hannity. They all have one thing in common. No one is there for long, protracted debates that require hours of research to justify given responses. I did all that when I was getting My undergrad degree, and put up with some snobbish professors when I was working on My Masters. The one thing they had in common, the research had a goal.

What goal is there for Me to provide academic level research to a bunch of people who will just deny the validity of the sources based upon bias. Even you, with your scholarly references, would refuse any reference that was not written by biased, university professors who follow a peer review policy that is nothing more than crony academia.

So, unless you are willing to pay Me for My time, I'll reserve the academic research for letters and white papers I send to My Senator and Congressmen, not that I think they'd make the effort to change anything. It would, however, be a much better use of My time.

Others yet come here to ensure that the voice of the opposition does not go unanswered based on the notion that if only one side is voicing their opinion, then they must be speaking the truth.

There is only the truth, not your truth and/or my truth.

Truth is a demure lady, much too ladylike to knock you on your head and drag you to her cave. She is there, but people must want her, and seek her out.
― William F. Buckley Jr.​

The one thing they had in common, the research was a goal.

Your programs were, then, quite different from mine. For my profs and me, the research was but a means to an end, not the end itself.

long, protracted debates that require hours of research to justify given responses.

I too am not keen to perform hours of research to post here, so I understand that others also would not care to do so. The most I'll do is bother to provide references that credibly corroborate the assertions I make. Truly, the only reason I do that here is because I'm unwilling to yield my anonymity -- in the "real world," I don't need to do that for when I'm presenting my thoughts on a topic, the audience members are already certain that I know what the hell I'm talking about. Here, nobody knows who I am or what specific achievements I've made in my life or in what disciples I'm expert; thus it's incumbent on me to present credible references to corroborate what I write. That's nothing more than one of the many manifestations of discursive integrity, and it's a manifestation of respect for others' intelligence.

What goal is there for Me to provide academic level research to a bunch of people who will just deny the validity of the sources

Each of us must define our goals. You're better than I can, for yourself, answer that question.

I don't do "academic level" research for my posts. I merely reference content I'm already aware of prior to posting. To be sure, I do not and will not conjure a topic for discussion here, head off and research it, and then here post a "academic level" essay on the topic. Insofar as I won't for posting here do that, I hardly can expect others to do so.

So, what is your goal by being here?

Political and public policy analysis and discussion is not new to me. It is an unavoidable aspect of the type of work I do. You can't really deliver a quality industry or competitive analysis to a company or industry association without discussing the statutory and political factors affecting them.

Even though I'm not new to political pondering, this is my first time on a political forum, or forum of any sort for that matter. The social media thing just never interested me; however, after watching this past election and seeing the incessant use of Twitter and hearing about the banter on forums like this one, I decided to see for myself. I hope to learn first hand about the people who use political communication tools like this forum. I'm also curious to discover how discussions on forums differ from those that I and my teams and clients have on public policy matters.

Heh! You must feel pretty disappointed.

 

[GreenBean]

Time and time again, when I look over the thread titles in the Politics and CDZ sub-forums, most of what I see is just people relating a news headline. Nobody needs people in a debating venue to merely share a news story, particularly a story that's "all over" the news networks anyway.

To make the matter even more inane, the members quite often do nothing more than share a news link and make a comment about "liberals this" or "conservatives that." WTH is that? It's hardly fodder for substantive discourse about an important topic. Indeed, it's little more than a thinly veiled "flame" at unspecified parties. The forum has two places for third-grade discourse like that: the Flame Zone and The Rubber Room.

Why is there so little rigorous, intellectual, rational, adult debate? The place where adjectives and adverbs are used to add nuanced context, not to lambaste. Did people here not participate on their high school or college forensics teams?

Each side is largely parroting talking points from their favorite pundits and there is very little real rationalizing. So far as the liberal faction is concerned - you can beat them over the head for hours with facts, destroy nearly all their arguments and they will still keep insisting they are right - they are the victims of conditioning. Basically you can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink and you can lead ta libtard to facts but can't make it think. .......

 

[Humorme]

This was kind of a general flame to one and all, eh?

No.

I'm just trying to find the people who are willing and able to debate a topic with something close to the rigor with which scholars do, that is with strong essays and research papers (including scholarly references) shared among their peers. I have no interest in a "tweet war" or "doing the dozens" or in making simplistic points about weighty and expansive topics. What's the point of that? There's no substantive discussion to be had there.

You are in the wrong place. No one here will expend that kind of time for an internet forum. If that is what you want, I suggest a venue that is devoted to people whose activities are a serious policy debate, not relaxation.

expend that kind of time for an internet forum.

The seriousness of debate or discussion is not a function of time. It is a function of intellectual and discursive integrity, which are things that one can exhibit and permit to be time consuming or not.

No, it is a function of worth and time. People come to forums like this for many reasons. I've been a member of this forum for while now.

I can tell you that a majority of them come here for the thrill of insulting people. Many of them are trying to lift insults to an artform, as witness the flame zone. Others, as have already replied in this thread, come here for fun and entertainment. Often, that is in the form of insulting. Others yet come here to ensure that the voice of the opposition does not go unanswered based on the notion that if only one side is voicing their opinion, then they must be speaking the truth. This is one of the reasons I come to this forum.

I started frequenting internet forums in early 2000 when the new defunct MSNBC forums were active. I have been on many of them, from CNN, ABC, Yahoo, and of course, Hannity. They all have one thing in common. No one is there for long, protracted debates that require hours of research to justify given responses. I did all that when I was getting My undergrad degree, and put up with some snobbish professors when I was working on My Masters. The one thing they had in common, the research had a goal.

What goal is there for Me to provide academic level research to a bunch of people who will just deny the validity of the sources based upon bias. Even you, with your scholarly references, would refuse any reference that was not written by biased, university professors who follow a peer review policy that is nothing more than crony academia.

So, unless you are willing to pay Me for My time, I'll reserve the academic research for letters and white papers I send to My Senator and Congressmen, not that I think they'd make the effort to change anything. It would, however, be a much better use of My time.

Well, short and sweet is something to keep in mind when writing your essays.

I think that somewhere between a college thesis and tweet should be acceptable.

In my mind the problem is that people put a little thought in creating a post of say ten paragraphs only to have one or two children multi quoting that post with responses like "you're a moron" or "imbecile"... or such like. If you take the time to match them insult for insult, your reply gets deleted and the post that was initially offending gets to stay up.

Isn't that what this thread is really about?

 

[ChrisL]

No.

I'm just trying to find the people who are willing and able to debate a topic with something close to the rigor with which scholars do, that is with strong essays and research papers (including scholarly references) shared among their peers. I have no interest in a "tweet war" or "doing the dozens" or in making simplistic points about weighty and expansive topics. What's the point of that? There's no substantive discussion to be had there.

You are in the wrong place. No one here will expend that kind of time for an internet forum. If that is what you want, I suggest a venue that is devoted to people whose activities are a serious policy debate, not relaxation.

expend that kind of time for an internet forum.

The seriousness of debate or discussion is not a function of time. It is a function of intellectual and discursive integrity, which are things that one can exhibit and permit to be time consuming or not.

No, it is a function of worth and time. People come to forums like this for many reasons. I've been a member of this forum for while now.

I can tell you that a majority of them come here for the thrill of insulting people. Many of them are trying to lift insults to an artform, as witness the flame zone. Others, as have already replied in this thread, come here for fun and entertainment. Often, that is in the form of insulting. Others yet come here to ensure that the voice of the opposition does not go unanswered based on the notion that if only one side is voicing their opinion, then they must be speaking the truth. This is one of the reasons I come to this forum.

I started frequenting internet forums in early 2000 when the new defunct MSNBC forums were active. I have been on many of them, from CNN, ABC, Yahoo, and of course, Hannity. They all have one thing in common. No one is there for long, protracted debates that require hours of research to justify given responses. I did all that when I was getting My undergrad degree, and put up with some snobbish professors when I was working on My Masters. The one thing they had in common, the research had a goal.

What goal is there for Me to provide academic level research to a bunch of people who will just deny the validity of the sources based upon bias. Even you, with your scholarly references, would refuse any reference that was not written by biased, university professors who follow a peer review policy that is nothing more than crony academia.

So, unless you are willing to pay Me for My time, I'll reserve the academic research for letters and white papers I send to My Senator and Congressmen, not that I think they'd make the effort to change anything. It would, however, be a much better use of My time.

Well, short and sweet is something to keep in mind when writing your essays.

I think that somewhere between a college thesis and tweet should be acceptable.

In my mind the problem is that people put a little thought in creating a post of say ten paragraphs only to have one or two children multi quoting that post with responses like "you're a moron" or "imbecile"... or such like. If you take the time to match them insult for insult, your reply gets deleted and the post that was initially offending gets to stay up.

Isn't that what this thread is really about?

This is true. Or the thoughtful intelligent posts are basically ignored while the ones that say "Obama sucks" or "Trump sucks" get like 20 "thanks." Lol. It just goes to show the level that some people are at is all, IMO.

 

[ChrisL]

If it is an important enough issue to me, I will back up my position with links and take some time in typing out a post. Most of the stuff that goes on around this forum though . . . . I just read and figure I'm probably just wasting my time in most cases.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[Bonzi]

....because they are too busy trying to be funny (and it's not working)

 

[Humorme]

If it is an important enough issue to me, I will back up my position with links and take some time in typing out a post. Most of the stuff that goes on around this forum though . . . . I just read and figure I'm probably just wasting my time in most cases.

Hopefully, by taking the time to express your views on this thread, the moderators / administrators will take a hint.

I feel exactly as you do. A few days ago I posted and it took a good dozen paragraphs with many links. ONE LINK was questionable. And so, a board troll began calling me an idiot, imbecile dumb f***, etc. and I challenged him on his childish manner. I pointed out how immature his posts were and how he had followed me around on more than twenty times, calling me names. His name calling got to stand and a moderator deleted my challenge to that poster's trolling.

Well, the moderators / administrators now see that at least two posters disagree with that way of doing business. For those who have to tolerate that, it is not interesting nor entertaining... except for the sick puppies that delight in trolling others and calling them names.

A snarky comment is one thing. Providing fertile ground for sick people to harass and intimidate their fellow posters is a completely different thing. Let's hope the people with the power to make that call take a hint.

 

[Toro]

There's very little serious discussion here.

Once you realize this, things will look a little clearer.

 

[norwegen]

Everything I post here is serious, thoughtful, and true, yet people point at me and laugh.

Buncha wankers.

 

[usmbguest5318]

You are in the wrong place. No one here will expend that kind of time for an internet forum. If that is what you want, I suggest a venue that is devoted to people whose activities are a serious policy debate, not relaxation.

expend that kind of time for an internet forum.

The seriousness of debate or discussion is not a function of time. It is a function of intellectual and discursive integrity, which are things that one can exhibit and permit to be time consuming or not.

No, it is a function of worth and time. People come to forums like this for many reasons. I've been a member of this forum for while now.

I can tell you that a majority of them come here for the thrill of insulting people. Many of them are trying to lift insults to an artform, as witness the flame zone. Others, as have already replied in this thread, come here for fun and entertainment. Often, that is in the form of insulting. Others yet come here to ensure that the voice of the opposition does not go unanswered based on the notion that if only one side is voicing their opinion, then they must be speaking the truth. This is one of the reasons I come to this forum.

I started frequenting internet forums in early 2000 when the new defunct MSNBC forums were active. I have been on many of them, from CNN, ABC, Yahoo, and of course, Hannity. They all have one thing in common. No one is there for long, protracted debates that require hours of research to justify given responses. I did all that when I was getting My undergrad degree, and put up with some snobbish professors when I was working on My Masters. The one thing they had in common, the research had a goal.

What goal is there for Me to provide academic level research to a bunch of people who will just deny the validity of the sources based upon bias. Even you, with your scholarly references, would refuse any reference that was not written by biased, university professors who follow a peer review policy that is nothing more than crony academia.

So, unless you are willing to pay Me for My time, I'll reserve the academic research for letters and white papers I send to My Senator and Congressmen, not that I think they'd make the effort to change anything. It would, however, be a much better use of My time.

Others yet come here to ensure that the voice of the opposition does not go unanswered based on the notion that if only one side is voicing their opinion, then they must be speaking the truth.

There is only the truth, not your truth and/or my truth.

Truth is a demure lady, much too ladylike to knock you on your head and drag you to her cave. She is there, but people must want her, and seek her out.
― William F. Buckley Jr.​

The one thing they had in common, the research was a goal.

Your programs were, then, quite different from mine. For my profs and me, the research was but a means to an end, not the end itself.

long, protracted debates that require hours of research to justify given responses.

I too am not keen to perform hours of research to post here, so I understand that others also would not care to do so. The most I'll do is bother to provide references that credibly corroborate the assertions I make. Truly, the only reason I do that here is because I'm unwilling to yield my anonymity -- in the "real world," I don't need to do that for when I'm presenting my thoughts on a topic, the audience members are already certain that I know what the hell I'm talking about. Here, nobody knows who I am or what specific achievements I've made in my life or in what disciples I'm expert; thus it's incumbent on me to present credible references to corroborate what I write. That's nothing more than one of the many manifestations of discursive integrity, and it's a manifestation of respect for others' intelligence.

What goal is there for Me to provide academic level research to a bunch of people who will just deny the validity of the sources

Each of us must define our goals. You're better than I can, for yourself, answer that question.

I don't do "academic level" research for my posts. I merely reference content I'm already aware of prior to posting. To be sure, I do not and will not conjure a topic for discussion here, head off and research it, and then here post a "academic level" essay on the topic. Insofar as I won't for posting here do that, I hardly can expect others to do so.

So, what is your goal by being here?

Political and public policy analysis and discussion is not new to me. It is an unavoidable aspect of the type of work I do. You can't really deliver a quality industry or competitive analysis to a company or industry association without discussing the statutory and political factors affecting them.

Even though I'm not new to political pondering, this is my first time on a political forum, or forum of any sort for that matter. The social media thing just never interested me; however, after watching this past election and seeing the incessant use of Twitter and hearing about the banter on forums like this one, I decided to see for myself. I hope to learn first hand about the people who use political communication tools like this forum. I'm also curious to discover how discussions on forums differ from those that I and my teams and clients have on public policy matters.

Heh! You must feel pretty disappointed.

I construe myself an observer here. There is neither dismay nor joy from that to be had, other than that which comes from the discovering itself. Did, say, Galileo and Copernicus find happiness or disappointment in observing that the Earth revolves around the Sun? No. They were content simply to know that is the existential relationship between the Earth and Sun.

Look at the title of this thread. It asks why, not what. The "what" had, by this thread's creation point, been observed. Of whom is it best to ask the reason for the observed behavior than the people who perform that behavior? Thus this thread.

Aside:

I must say. Among the things I've observed here is that when asked to to explain the nature and motives of their expressions, people here, unlike people in my "real world," seem loathe to actually do so. Odd, really, insofar as people here claim to so value freedom of expression, yet when asked to discuss the one thing about which they are most expert to discuss, themselves and what catalyzes their behavior, they are as timid as a dormouse. I find that paradoxical and peculiar.​

 

[Humorme]

There's very little serious discussion here.

Once you realize this, things will look a little clearer.

Of the little serious discussion here, it's not because people are not interested. It's more about trolls want to control the conversations and lock out serious discussion.

 

[usmbguest5318]

No.

I'm just trying to find the people who are willing and able to debate a topic with something close to the rigor with which scholars do, that is with strong essays and research papers (including scholarly references) shared among their peers. I have no interest in a "tweet war" or "doing the dozens" or in making simplistic points about weighty and expansive topics. What's the point of that? There's no substantive discussion to be had there.

You are in the wrong place. No one here will expend that kind of time for an internet forum. If that is what you want, I suggest a venue that is devoted to people whose activities are a serious policy debate, not relaxation.

expend that kind of time for an internet forum.

The seriousness of debate or discussion is not a function of time. It is a function of intellectual and discursive integrity, which are things that one can exhibit and permit to be time consuming or not.

No, it is a function of worth and time. People come to forums like this for many reasons. I've been a member of this forum for while now.

I can tell you that a majority of them come here for the thrill of insulting people. Many of them are trying to lift insults to an artform, as witness the flame zone. Others, as have already replied in this thread, come here for fun and entertainment. Often, that is in the form of insulting. Others yet come here to ensure that the voice of the opposition does not go unanswered based on the notion that if only one side is voicing their opinion, then they must be speaking the truth. This is one of the reasons I come to this forum.

I started frequenting internet forums in early 2000 when the new defunct MSNBC forums were active. I have been on many of them, from CNN, ABC, Yahoo, and of course, Hannity. They all have one thing in common. No one is there for long, protracted debates that require hours of research to justify given responses. I did all that when I was getting My undergrad degree, and put up with some snobbish professors when I was working on My Masters. The one thing they had in common, the research had a goal.

What goal is there for Me to provide academic level research to a bunch of people who will just deny the validity of the sources based upon bias. Even you, with your scholarly references, would refuse any reference that was not written by biased, university professors who follow a peer review policy that is nothing more than crony academia.

So, unless you are willing to pay Me for My time, I'll reserve the academic research for letters and white papers I send to My Senator and Congressmen, not that I think they'd make the effort to change anything. It would, however, be a much better use of My time.

Well, short and sweet is something to keep in mind when writing your essays.

I think that somewhere between a college thesis and tweet should be acceptable.

In my mind the problem is that people put a little thought in creating a post of say ten paragraphs only to have one or two children multi quoting that post with responses like "you're a moron" or "imbecile"... or such like. If you take the time to match them insult for insult, your reply gets deleted and the post that was initially offending gets to stay up.

Isn't that what this thread is really about?

In my mind the problem is that people put a little thought in creating a post of say ten paragraphs only to have one or two children multi quoting that post with responses like "you're a moron" or "imbecile"... or such like. If you take the time to match them insult for insult, your reply gets deleted and the post that was initially offending gets to stay up.

Isn't that what this thread is really about?

No.

Look at the thread title. Then look at my response to ChrisL's question and the date upon which I first expressed my purpose for participating here. The look at my join date.

This thread was created for no purpose other than as an attempt to get direct answers to the title question, ideally from individuals who do not engage in serious debate.

I can as well as the next person speculate about why there's so little serious debate on USMB. I don't need to start a thread to do that. Mind you, I can also complain about or laud the death of serious debate, but I don't need to ask an obviously non-rhetorical question to do that.

 

[Humorme]

You are in the wrong place. No one here will expend that kind of time for an internet forum. If that is what you want, I suggest a venue that is devoted to people whose activities are a serious policy debate, not relaxation.

expend that kind of time for an internet forum.

The seriousness of debate or discussion is not a function of time. It is a function of intellectual and discursive integrity, which are things that one can exhibit and permit to be time consuming or not.

No, it is a function of worth and time. People come to forums like this for many reasons. I've been a member of this forum for while now.

I can tell you that a majority of them come here for the thrill of insulting people. Many of them are trying to lift insults to an artform, as witness the flame zone. Others, as have already replied in this thread, come here for fun and entertainment. Often, that is in the form of insulting. Others yet come here to ensure that the voice of the opposition does not go unanswered based on the notion that if only one side is voicing their opinion, then they must be speaking the truth. This is one of the reasons I come to this forum.

I started frequenting internet forums in early 2000 when the new defunct MSNBC forums were active. I have been on many of them, from CNN, ABC, Yahoo, and of course, Hannity. They all have one thing in common. No one is there for long, protracted debates that require hours of research to justify given responses. I did all that when I was getting My undergrad degree, and put up with some snobbish professors when I was working on My Masters. The one thing they had in common, the research had a goal.

What goal is there for Me to provide academic level research to a bunch of people who will just deny the validity of the sources based upon bias. Even you, with your scholarly references, would refuse any reference that was not written by biased, university professors who follow a peer review policy that is nothing more than crony academia.

So, unless you are willing to pay Me for My time, I'll reserve the academic research for letters and white papers I send to My Senator and Congressmen, not that I think they'd make the effort to change anything. It would, however, be a much better use of My time.

Well, short and sweet is something to keep in mind when writing your essays.

I think that somewhere between a college thesis and tweet should be acceptable.

In my mind the problem is that people put a little thought in creating a post of say ten paragraphs only to have one or two children multi quoting that post with responses like "you're a moron" or "imbecile"... or such like. If you take the time to match them insult for insult, your reply gets deleted and the post that was initially offending gets to stay up.

Isn't that what this thread is really about?

In my mind the problem is that people put a little thought in creating a post of say ten paragraphs only to have one or two children multi quoting that post with responses like "you're a moron" or "imbecile"... or such like. If you take the time to match them insult for insult, your reply gets deleted and the post that was initially offending gets to stay up.

Isn't that what this thread is really about?

No.

Look at the thread title. Then look at my response to ChrisL's question and the date upon which I first expressed my purpose for participating here. The look at my join date.

This thread was created for no purpose other than as an attempt to get direct answers to the title question, ideally from individuals who do not engage in serious debate.

I can as well as the next person speculate about why there's so little serious debate on USMB. I don't need to start a thread to do that. Mind you, I can also complain about or laud the death of serious debate, but I don't need to ask an obviously non-rhetorical question to do that.

Well, excuse me. You asked a question those who do not want serious discussions are never going to answer. In my mind, I thought you were asking a rhetorical question in order to open some dialogue.

Serious discussion is not welcome here - whether by accident or design. If you had the degree of IQ that you imply, you had to know that. So, the real purpose of your thread was defeated with your first post. Forgive me for having added to it.

 

[Picaro]

No.

I'm just trying to find the people who are willing and able to debate a topic with something close to the rigor with which scholars do, that is with strong essays and research papers (including scholarly references) shared among their peers. I have no interest in a "tweet war" or "doing the dozens" or in making simplistic points about weighty and expansive topics. What's the point of that? There's no substantive discussion to be had there.

You are in the wrong place. No one here will expend that kind of time for an internet forum. If that is what you want, I suggest a venue that is devoted to people whose activities are a serious policy debate, not relaxation.

expend that kind of time for an internet forum.

The seriousness of debate or discussion is not a function of time. It is a function of intellectual and discursive integrity, which are things that one can exhibit and permit to be time consuming or not.

No, it is a function of worth and time. People come to forums like this for many reasons. I've been a member of this forum for while now.

I can tell you that a majority of them come here for the thrill of insulting people. Many of them are trying to lift insults to an artform, as witness the flame zone. Others, as have already replied in this thread, come here for fun and entertainment. Often, that is in the form of insulting. Others yet come here to ensure that the voice of the opposition does not go unanswered based on the notion that if only one side is voicing their opinion, then they must be speaking the truth. This is one of the reasons I come to this forum.

I started frequenting internet forums in early 2000 when the new defunct MSNBC forums were active. I have been on many of them, from CNN, ABC, Yahoo, and of course, Hannity. They all have one thing in common. No one is there for long, protracted debates that require hours of research to justify given responses. I did all that when I was getting My undergrad degree, and put up with some snobbish professors when I was working on My Masters. The one thing they had in common, the research had a goal.

What goal is there for Me to provide academic level research to a bunch of people who will just deny the validity of the sources based upon bias. Even you, with your scholarly references, would refuse any reference that was not written by biased, university professors who follow a peer review policy that is nothing more than crony academia.

So, unless you are willing to pay Me for My time, I'll reserve the academic research for letters and white papers I send to My Senator and Congressmen, not that I think they'd make the effort to change anything. It would, however, be a much better use of My time.

Well, short and sweet is something to keep in mind when writing your essays.

I think that somewhere between a college thesis and tweet should be acceptable.

In my mind the problem is that people put a little thought in creating a post of say ten paragraphs only to have one or two children multi quoting that post with responses like "you're a moron" or "imbecile"... or such like. If you take the time to match them insult for insult, your reply gets deleted and the post that was initially offending gets to stay up.

Isn't that what this thread is really about?

No, it's about Xelor dreaming up neurotic stuff to whine about. He conflates propaganda from 'academic' hacks with genuine intellectual analysis, never mind you can hire a 'scholar' to reach whatever per-conceived biases you want them to, and that has been the case for a long time now; where do you think all those 'think tanks' and the hacks they hire to write come from?

Throw in that most such 'viewpoints' can easily be summed up in a paragraph or less, you have to note that anybody who takes 20 to say it is most often just spamming and attempting a cover up, not looking for a discussion. That is also why it never requires more than a sentence or two in response. Many people here are more than educated enough to spot that sort of gaming. Start off with a false or deliberately loaded 'viewpoint' it doesn't matter how much spam you throw in afterward to make it look 'intellectual n stuff'.

 

[Picaro]

There's very little serious discussion here.

Once you realize this, things will look a little clearer.

Didn't used to be the case; early on in innernutz history it was mostly intelligent people discussing whatever rang their bell, but as PC's got cheaper and cheaper and out of the Egghead toy boxes the level got lower and lower, the 'Eggheads' moved on to blogs or private forums, and the message boards got 'discovered' as the first 'social media' and special targets for political astro-turf campaigns and the usual spam we get now.

The 'Egghead sets' are still out there, they're real intellectuals, so they just don't invite shallow narcissistic half-wits with high self-esteem and a shoplifted Thesaurus over to play with them.

 

[usmbguest5318]

The seriousness of debate or discussion is not a function of time. It is a function of intellectual and discursive integrity, which are things that one can exhibit and permit to be time consuming or not.

No, it is a function of worth and time. People come to forums like this for many reasons. I've been a member of this forum for while now.

I can tell you that a majority of them come here for the thrill of insulting people. Many of them are trying to lift insults to an artform, as witness the flame zone. Others, as have already replied in this thread, come here for fun and entertainment. Often, that is in the form of insulting. Others yet come here to ensure that the voice of the opposition does not go unanswered based on the notion that if only one side is voicing their opinion, then they must be speaking the truth. This is one of the reasons I come to this forum.

I started frequenting internet forums in early 2000 when the new defunct MSNBC forums were active. I have been on many of them, from CNN, ABC, Yahoo, and of course, Hannity. They all have one thing in common. No one is there for long, protracted debates that require hours of research to justify given responses. I did all that when I was getting My undergrad degree, and put up with some snobbish professors when I was working on My Masters. The one thing they had in common, the research had a goal.

What goal is there for Me to provide academic level research to a bunch of people who will just deny the validity of the sources based upon bias. Even you, with your scholarly references, would refuse any reference that was not written by biased, university professors who follow a peer review policy that is nothing more than crony academia.

So, unless you are willing to pay Me for My time, I'll reserve the academic research for letters and white papers I send to My Senator and Congressmen, not that I think they'd make the effort to change anything. It would, however, be a much better use of My time.

Well, short and sweet is something to keep in mind when writing your essays.

I think that somewhere between a college thesis and tweet should be acceptable.

In my mind the problem is that people put a little thought in creating a post of say ten paragraphs only to have one or two children multi quoting that post with responses like "you're a moron" or "imbecile"... or such like. If you take the time to match them insult for insult, your reply gets deleted and the post that was initially offending gets to stay up.

Isn't that what this thread is really about?

In my mind the problem is that people put a little thought in creating a post of say ten paragraphs only to have one or two children multi quoting that post with responses like "you're a moron" or "imbecile"... or such like. If you take the time to match them insult for insult, your reply gets deleted and the post that was initially offending gets to stay up.

Isn't that what this thread is really about?

No.

Look at the thread title. Then look at my response to ChrisL's question and the date upon which I first expressed my purpose for participating here. The look at my join date.

This thread was created for no purpose other than as an attempt to get direct answers to the title question, ideally from individuals who do not engage in serious debate.

I can as well as the next person speculate about why there's so little serious debate on USMB. I don't need to start a thread to do that. Mind you, I can also complain about or laud the death of serious debate, but I don't need to ask an obviously non-rhetorical question to do that.

Well, excuse me. You asked a question those who do not want serious discussions are never going to answer. In my mind, I thought you were asking a rhetorical question in order to open some dialogue.

Serious discussion is not welcome here - whether by accident or design. If you had the degree of IQ that you imply, you had to know that. So, the real purpose of your thread was defeated with your first post. Forgive me for having added to it.

You asked a question those who do not want serious discussions are never going to answer.

Well, discursive integrity and basic respect require that one give those individuals a fair opportunity to answer the question, thereby speaking for themselves rather than, by default wrought from quiescence, allowing speculations of others to gather legitimacy.

I thought you were asking a rhetorical question in order to open some dialogue.

Okay...that is what it is.

FWIW, I posed a neutrally phrased question to minimize the risk that it'd be construed as rhetorical.

 

[impuretrash]

There can be no reasonable discussion with the left. Not any more. There's no room for dissenting opinions on that side of the spectrum. You're either all in, or you're the enemy. They drew the line in the sand, not us.