Why Science Accepts Anthropogenic Global Warming and Tells Us We Need to Act

[Donald H]

Please explain to us how you come to the conclusion that anthropogenic global warming is a hoax

They have large personal investments in their denial, but they don't have a counter argument.

Listening to their cheap personal attacks is going to have to be the satisfaction you get out of the exercise for now.

That's something worth the effort!

 

[ding]

Up until the invention of the steam engine, CO2 in our atmosphere stayed in the range of 280 - 300 ppm

...for interglacial periods. For glacial periods it became perilously close to the threshold limit for life.

Right?

 

[ding]

The Earth began warming with the advent of the Industrial Revolution...

Incorrect. The present interglacial period began warming after the last glacial maximum about 22,000 years ago.

The present warming trend began ~400 years ago when the planet started warming from the period referred to as the Little Ice age.

 

[ding]

The Earth is now warming at a historically extreme rate; twenty five times as rapidly as the Earth moved from glacial to interglacial states over the last 3 million years.

Incorrect. The present warming trend is no different than any other warming trend before it.

 

[ding]

Their near-universal conclusion is that the primary cause of that warming is the greenhouse effect acting on CO2 emitted by humans burning fossil fuels (coal, petroleum, natural gas) for energy and transportation.

That's because they assume all warming is from an incremental 120 ppm of atmospheric CO2 and assume there is no natural warming which is an error on their part.

 

[ding]

The warming has numerous effects, many of which are harmful. Aside from its impact on all life forms via more frequent and more intense heat waves, we are experiencing sea level rise and increased ice melt.

Sea level rise hasn't materially changed in the last 6,000 years (3-4 mm/yr).

Which is to be expected for an interglacial period that is still 2C cooler than the previous interglacial period.

 

[ding]

That warming is reinforced by positive feedback from increased humidity in the Earth's atmosphere; water vapor is the most effective greenhouse gas but as a precipitable component of the atmosphere, changes only in response to temperature changes brought about by other agents.

The entire atmosphere is only 44% effective at trapping its theoretical surface temperature due to convective currents whisking the heat away from the surface. It's ludicrous to believe an incremental 120 ppm of atmospheric CO2 would be 350% effective at trapping it's theoretical GHG effect at the surface.

Not to mention the planet cooled for millions of years with atmospheric CO2 greater than 600 ppm and the previous interglacial was 2C warmer than today with 120 ppm less atmospheric CO2 than today.

 

[ding]

Currently, thirty percent of human CO2 emissions are absorbed by the world's oceans. CO2 in aqueous solution produces carbonic acid which reduces the oceans pH (makes it more acidic).

Can you explain how this is possible if the ocean holds less CO2 in solution as the ocean temperature increases?

 

[Foxfyre]

If the Earth had no atmosphere, the planet's average temperature would be 58F (32C) cooler. Adding back just the oxygen and nitrogen would have almost NO effect on the temperature. That 58F of warming is due almost ENTIRELY to the greenhouse effect acting on two components of our atmosphere. About two-thirds is due to water vapor and one-third to carbon dioxide (CO2). The other components having greenhouse effects are methane, nitrous oxide, chloro- and hydrofluorocarbons.

The Earth began warming with the advent of the Industrial Revolution when the use of steam engines and then internal combustion engines grew rapidly, all fueled with hydrocarbon fossil fuels. The Earth is now warming at a historically extreme rate; twenty five times as rapidly as the Earth moved from glacial to interglacial states over the last 3 million years. That warming has been studied extensively for decades by scientists all over the planet. Their near-universal conclusion is that the primary cause of that warming is the greenhouse effect acting on CO2 emitted by humans burning fossil fuels (coal, petroleum, natural gas) for energy and transportation.

Up until the invention of the steam engine, CO2 in our atmosphere stayed in the range of 280 - 300 ppm for almost 3 million years. It is now just breaching 420 ppm, a 50% increase in the gas responsible for one-third of all greenhouse warming. That warming is reinforced by positive feedback from increased humidity in the Earth's atmosphere; water vapor is the most effective greenhouse gas but as a precipitable component of the atmosphere, changes only in response to temperature changes brought about by other agents. Atmospheric CO2 levels are also increased by deforestation and the thawing of frozen tundra.

The warming has numerous effects, many of which are harmful. Aside from its impact on all life forms via more frequent and more intense heat waves, we are experiencing sea level rise and increased ice melt. The energy that drives weather comes from the sun via the atmosphere and the hydrosphere. As global warming increases the energy available for weather, the average intensity of weather will increase. Increased temperatures are causing glaciers and snowpack to disappear. That decreases the Earth's albedo, decreasing the amount of solar radiation reflected back to space and providing more positive feedback. Increased meltwater from the poles is reducing the density of water there and thus the drive for the overturning currents responsible for the basis of almost the entire marine food chain as well as the temperate climate of Europe

Currently, thirty percent of human CO2 emissions are absorbed by the world's oceans. CO2 in aqueous solution produces carbonic acid which reduces the oceans pH (makes it more acidic). That change affects numerous biochemical reactions utilized by marine life, in particular the ability to fix carbonates into shells, exoskeletons and corals. The loss of corals will expose thousands of miles of coastlines to higher wave energies causing increased erosion and coastal flooding.

So, while some argue that added CO2 will increase agricultural production in some locales and that warming will be welcome by some residents in high latitude settings, the balance of warming effects are and will continue to be overwhelmingly negative.

TOPICS TO EXPLORE

How Do We Know that Humans Are the Source of the Increased CO2?

How Do We Know that CO2 is the Cause of the Warming?

How Do We Know that Warming Will be Harmful?

What Are Tipping Points and Have We Crossed Any?

References

What is the greenhouse effect? - NASA Science

The greenhouse effect is the process through which heat is trapped near Earth's surface by substances known as 'greenhouse gases.' Imagine these gases as a

science.nasa.gov

Causes - NASA Science

Scientists attribute the global warming trend observed since the mid-20th century to the human expansion of the "greenhouse effect"1 — warming that results

science.nasa.gov

Effects - NASA Science

Global climate change is not a future problem. Changes to Earth’s climate driven by increased human emissions of heat-trapping greenhouse gases are already

science.nasa.gov

What is Ocean Acidification?

Ocean acidification refers to a reduction in the pH of the ocean over an extended period time, caused primarily by uptake of carbon dioxide (CO2) from the atmosphere.

oceanservice.noaa.gov

What the scientists leave out of the equation is that life on planet Earth, both flora and fauna, was thriving quite magnificently when the Earth was much warmer than now. Species went extinct and new species emerged during those times too without there being industrial activity of any kind.

Despite all the solar farms, wind farms, draconian rules and regulations re what fuels people are required to use, what appliances they are allowed to have, what human activity is allowed to be, etc. etc. etc., the CO2 levels in the atmosphere have apparently not been reduced by a single particle. There is no reasonable justification to assume that if humankind and ALL industrial activity was zapped off the Earth today, it would have little, if any, significant or important affect on the climate.

Instead of totalitarian extremism when it comes to climate change, I am much closer to believing a reasoned approach is warranted. Government should be researching and advising the people on how to best adapt constructively to a warming planet and ditch all the control freak rules and regs.

A Balanced View of Climate Change

Paraphrased from my source for this thread: more than a million people are killed and multi millions injured in traffic accidents every year that goes by. We could reduce that carnage to near zero if we just reduced traffic speeds to 3 miles an hour. Anybody willing to agree to that to save...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[Donald H]

I certainly wouldn't mind hearing another voice.

See my new thread on the behaviour panel. I think it's going to bring a lot of enlightenment on the reason for Trump's debating success.

And then, the Democrats are going to be faced with the task of trying to defuse it!
After learning this last night, I see very big problems for Kamala in the debates.

 

[Crick]

See my new thread on the behaviour panel. I think it's going to bring a lot of enlightenment on the reason for Trump's debating success.

And then, the Democrats are going to be faced with the task of trying to defuse it!
After learning this last night, I see very big problems for Kamala in the debates.

What Trump debating success?

 

[Stryder50]

Do you have anything in the way of actual science to add to the conversation? Do you accept or reject any of the specific points I made?

If you believed what you presented, and had integrity, you would have ceased to personally produce carbon dioxide, CO2.

You haven't and won't.

Your interest and agenda is to used falsified "science" as a political tool to advance further marxism-socialism towards global tyranny and destroy free enterprise and capitalism.

Repeat. If you really believed this crap you would personally stop emitting any CO2.

You are a phony and charlatan.

 

[Donald H]

What Trump debating success?

Trump massacred Joe Biden. But understand what i've said there.

Joe didn't come on stage defeated and bewildered. That happened to him in the first ten minutes of the debate.

So if nothing else understand this: Trump's tactic of KISS destroyed Biden because there's no sophisticated debating tactic that can work effectively against that. And so all of a sudden Joe was turned into a babbling idiot on ?Medicare?

So you see? Trump is going to do the same thing with Kamala unless the Dems get proactive and do something to defuse Trump's tactic.

Fwiw, Trump doesn't understand himself what he's doing that makes him successful. As I've said in my examples, KISS.

Trump truly believes that nuking a hurricane or injecting bleach are great ideas.

I think I've uncovered the secret on how a complete fkng idiot could become America's president!

 

[Donald H]

If Trump wins, any way he can think up to end the war against Russia is fine with me.

Best of luck to Trump becoming the president over a bunch of idiots!

 

[Crick]

If you believed what you presented, and had integrity, you would have ceased to personally produce carbon dioxide, CO2.

You haven't and won't.

Your interest and agenda is to used falsified "science" as a political tool to advance further marxism-socialism towards global tyranny and destroy free enterprise and capitalism.

Repeat. If you really believed this crap you would personally stop emitting any CO2.

You are a phony and charlatan.

You're an idiot.

 

[Crick]

If Trump wins, any way he can think up to end the war against Russia is fine with me.

Best of luck to Trump becoming the president over a bunch of idiots!

Curious what that has to do with the thread topic. Or the forum topic for that matter.

 

[Stryder50]

You're an idiot.

And you are a bozo the clown.

400ppm of CO2 is a ratio of 1/2,500 other parts of the atmosphere.
You and fellow scammers and con-artists have yet to show how a two degree temperature increase in the one part CO2 will produce and equal increase in the other 2,499 parts of nitrogen, oxygen, argon, etc.

That's just a start on the cherry-picked and distorted data you dis-inform with.

 

[Donald H]

Curious what that has to do with the thread topic. Or the forum topic for that matter.

It's the same with the global warming denialists as with Trump's KISS tactic.

Keep it simple on AGW and they get away with it. We don't have climate experts on this board who can set them straight.

If you don't like the topic then just ignore it. Or go cry to a moderator?

 

[Crick]

And you are a bozo the clown.

400ppm of CO2 is a ratio of 1/2,500 other parts of the atmosphere.
You and fellow scammers and con-artists have yet to show how a two degree temperature increase in the one part CO2 will produce and equal increase in the other 2,499 parts of nitrogen, oxygen, argon, etc.

That's just a start on the cherry-picked and distorted data you dis-inform with.

The Earth is 58F (33.2C) degrees warmer than it would be without the greenhouse effect. CO2 is solely responsible for one-third of that warming and we have now increased it's level in Earth's atmosphere by 50%.

 

[Crick]

It's the same with the global warming denialists as with Trump's KISS tactic.

Keep it simple on AGW and they get away with it. We don't have climate experts on this board who can set them straight.

If you don't like the topic then just ignore it. Or go cry to a moderator?

On-topic posts are about 1 in 100 around here. I was just wondering what made you decide to post that here. I can't say I care that much. I've been miles off topic myself.

Trump's comments have always been simplistic, even when they were intelligible. These days, they've become consistently simplistic AND unintellligible. I don't know how many voters he's gonna pull in with that sort of tactic. I'd thought it was "Keep It Simple, Stupid" not "Keep It Simple & Stupid"