Why ‘religious freedom’ laws are doomed

[hazlnut]

You can bet your ass(ets) that the Muslem dietary laws will still be observed and enforced while they tear Christianity apart.

You mean what Muslims prepare in their own home?

My Jewish friends don't eat bacon when they come over for breakfast, Christianity is still fine.

 

[The T]

Our whole Constitution is based on religious tenets, it is based on God's Natural Law of our rights, over human rule.

No such thing as "God's Natural Law of our rights, over human rule".
Nice try though.

Declaration of Independence which goes with and helped to write our Constitution.

When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Our rights in the Constitution is based on Natures Law which is life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Correct. The entire basis of our form of government started with the Declaration, and was later codified with the adoption of the Constitution over the Articles of Confederacy (which was nothing but Democracy without protections of the PEOPLE).

 

[The T]

The First Amendment does not allow people of any religious bent to create and enforce laws that are ONLY based on their religious tenets.

Our whole Constitution is based on religious tenets, it is based on God's Natural Law of our rights, over human rule.

No such thing as "God's Natural Law of our rights, over human rule".
Nice try though.

Want to bet Son?

 

[Clementine]

You can bet your ass(ets) that the Muslem dietary laws will still be observed and enforced while they tear Christianity apart.

You're right and this is really bad.

You never even hear liberals mention Muslims. They know we are bending over for them in many ways, yet they keep telling us not to judge and be kind. When it comes to their favorite punching bag, Christians, they encourage people to bash them.

We have religious freedom, as long as it doesn't break any laws or infringe on anyone's rights. Muslims trample women's and gay's rights on a daily basis just by treating them like animals. But, that is okay.

So, some Christians chose not to do business with gays by refusing to bake a damn cake. I am forever amazed at how the left treated that like a bigger sin than Muslims actually beheading gays. They remain silent on the latter even though they are well aware of what goes on.

Muslim practices often break our laws. Women have rights here. They can vote, work and it's illegal to beat them. Gays have rights here. While no one should be forced to cater to them, you better not harm anyone or even bully anyone. Sensible law.

Yet, Muslims are allowed mistreat women and the law turns a blind eye, all in the name of freedom of religion.

Of course, no liberals will even comment on that and always choose to look the other way. They, for whatever strange reason, won't criticize Muslims. Yet, they love bashing Christians at every turn. Of course, they get away with it and no threats or harm come to them for their blasphemy. The only thing anyone fears is bashing Muslims because it can mean a lot of deaths.

Just like with the school in California who banned flag t-shirts to stave off the violence from Hispanics, our government finds it reasonable to stifle our freedom of speech when it comes to Muslims to prevent violence. We allow those irrational extremists to dictate how we behave. No one has the balls to take them on and call them out for their ill behavior. Why does the left prefer appeasement to standing up for our rights? When our very rights are denied to avoid offending a radical, we are in deep trouble. Might as well admit that Sharia law is already here. We are being forced to obey it by not being allowed to speak out against Muslims in any way.

Seriously, look at the film maker who made that video exposing the dangers of Islam. He was threatened by the administration immediately following the terrorist attack on Benghazi. Hillary vowed to get him. She didn't make that same threat to the radical Muslims, just the guy who spoke out against them. It's clear that the administration saw sharp criticism of Muslims as a bigger crime than murdering our ambassador and three others. The guy is in jail and we'll probably never hear from him again. The Muslim terrorists remain free. We even send money and military equipment to radical Muslims. We should all be quite concerned about that because the majority of people in this country are "infidels" yet we are being forced to bow to the radical minority. There is a price to pay if you speak out against them. That is what happens when you live under a tyrannical government.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

First Amendment stuff son. Get over it and yourself.

The First Amendment does not allow people of any religious bent to create and enforce laws that are ONLY based on their religious tenets.

Our whole Constitution is based on religious tenets, it is based on God's Natural Law of our rights, over human rule.

That’s truly ignorant and idiotic.

The Constitution is the culmination of centuries of Anglo-American judicial tradition dating back to the Magna Carta and the Assizes of Henry II. The Constitution exists only in the context of its case law as interpreted by the Supreme Court, and as authorized by the doctrine of judicial review.

It is not based on ‘religious tenets,’ it is not based on ‘god’s law,’ it is a secular document that codifies our inalienable rights that manifest as a consequence of our humanity, having nothing to do with ‘deities,’ and indeed safeguards our civil liberties from the capricious arrogance of religious dogma that often poses the greatest threat to our civil rights.

 

[Avatar4321]

Because you ignored it when the Constitution said it, why would you accept it simply because a statute says it?

Congress shall make no law.

 

[Avatar4321]

The First Amendment does not allow people of any religious bent to create and enforce laws that are ONLY based on their religious tenets.

Our whole Constitution is based on religious tenets, it is based on God's Natural Law of our rights, over human rule.

That’s truly ignorant and idiotic.

The Constitution is the culmination of centuries of Anglo-American judicial tradition dating back to the Magna Carta and the Assizes of Henry II. The Constitution exists only in the context of its case law as interpreted by the Supreme Court, and as authorized by the doctrine of judicial review.

It is not based on ‘religious tenets,’ it is not based on ‘god’s law,’ it is a secular document that codifies our inalienable rights that manifest as a consequence of our humanity, having nothing to do with ‘deities,’ and indeed safeguards our civil liberties from the capricious arrogance of religious dogma that often poses the greatest threat to our civil rights.

You do realize that Natural law is God's law, right? You do realize that Natural law is what the English have always based the common law on.

If you are going to call others ignorant, try to remember it's better to be silent and look like a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

 

[hatman]

You can bet your ass(ets) that the Muslem dietary laws will still be observed and enforced while they tear Christianity apart.

You're right and this is really bad.

You never even hear liberals mention Muslims. They know we are bending over for them in many ways, yet they keep telling us not to judge and be kind. When it comes to their favorite punching bag, Christians, they encourage people to bash them.

We have religious freedom, as long as it doesn't break any laws or infringe on anyone's rights. Muslims trample women's and gay's rights on a daily basis just by treating them like animals. But, that is okay.

So, some Christians chose not to do business with gays by refusing to bake a damn cake. I am forever amazed at how the left treated that like a bigger sin than Muslims actually beheading gays. They remain silent on the latter even though they are well aware of what goes on.

Muslim practices often break our laws. Women have rights here. They can vote, work and it's illegal to beat them. Gays have rights here. While no one should be forced to cater to them, you better not harm anyone or even bully anyone. Sensible law.

Yet, Muslims are allowed mistreat women and the law turns a blind eye, all in the name of freedom of religion.

Of course, no liberals will even comment on that and always choose to look the other way. They, for whatever strange reason, won't criticize Muslims. Yet, they love bashing Christians at every turn. Of course, they get away with it and no threats or harm come to them for their blasphemy. The only thing anyone fears is bashing Muslims because it can mean a lot of deaths.

Just like with the school in California who banned flag t-shirts to stave off the violence from Hispanics, our government finds it reasonable to stifle our freedom of speech when it comes to Muslims to prevent violence. We allow those irrational extremists to dictate how we behave. No one has the balls to take them on and call them out for their ill behavior. Why does the left prefer appeasement to standing up for our rights? When our very rights are denied to avoid offending a radical, we are in deep trouble. Might as well admit that Sharia law is already here. We are being forced to obey it by not being allowed to speak out against Muslims in any way.

Seriously, look at the film maker who made that video exposing the dangers of Islam. He was threatened by the administration immediately following the terrorist attack on Benghazi. Hillary vowed to get him. She didn't make that same threat to the radical Muslims, just the guy who spoke out against them. It's clear that the administration saw sharp criticism of Muslims as a bigger crime than murdering our ambassador and three others. The guy is in jail and we'll probably never hear from him again. The Muslim terrorists remain free. We even send money and military equipment to radical Muslims. We should all be quite concerned about that because the majority of people in this country are "infidels" yet we are being forced to bow to the radical minority. There is a price to pay if you speak out against them. That is what happens when you live under a tyrannical government.

I guess I cant link yet

According to the Minneapolis Star Tribune, about 100 passengers each month are denied transportation for carrying alcohol. But that will change if the MAC goes forward with a plan to suspend for 30 days the license of any driver who refuses customers for reasons other than safety; a second offense could lead the driver to lose his license for two years.

Some Muslim drivers claim the rules single them out for religious persecution — and they vow to fight the penalties as an infringement of religious liberty. What the drivers seem to be saying is, we expect non-Muslims to respect our beliefs and practices, but we aren't required to tolerate theirs.

The Somali intolerance doesn't just extend to alcohol. Some drivers have also refused to carry blind passengers with guide dogs, on grounds that the Koran says dog saliva is unclean. And some Muslim store cashiers in the Twin Cities have refused to scan pork products, alleging this also violates their faith.

There is a strong tradition in the United States of granting great deference to religious practices and beliefs, but there is also a tradition of not forcing those beliefs on others who do not share them — which is where the Somalis have run afoul.

Freedom of religion is under attack! Where you patriots on the Muslims side or no because it wasn't Christian thing so it didn't matter to the patriots.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Why are they doomed? Why? Because our government insists on consigning us Christians to irrelevance. Our faith scares them, it teaches honesty, responsibility, fiscal responsibility, marital fidelity, commitments, submission to authority when that authority isn't you. But hey, some people are bothered by that. The idea of submitting something bigger than you. Never mind our religious freedom, though. We're just disposable pawns in this sick, twisted little game.

 

[TemplarKormac]

But be reminded, that when you trample our religious freedoms, you're trampling everyone else's. We think homosexuality is wrong, so do Muslims, but they aren't in the least confronted about their beliefs. We are. Perhaps we're to respectful of human life to kill you when you question our beliefs. Instead of trying to make you submit, we try to convince you nonviolently. But hey, Muslims must be more tolerant of homosexuals and life in general than we are.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I mean why else are we being targeted? Homosexuals for some reason think their lifestyle is something they were born with, yet the way they respond to adversity and criticism is by trying to remove it. Permanently. Either they're guilty about something, or have massive inferiority or persecution complexes. The more extreme ones don't want to offer any rational arguments as to why some pious man must set aside his beliefs for the tolerance of something he sees as sinful, why is that?

You know what, these are tactics used by the old style Italian Mafias. "If you want our protection, pay us, if you resist, we'll ruin you."

 

[TemplarKormac]

So sad that 3.2% of 316 million people suddenly think they have a monopoly on the free thought of the other 96.8% of Americans. They are sorely mistaken. If they seek tolerance, they need to give it. If they want acceptance, they need to give it. But hey, if they want to be forced into doing things they don't approve of, hey they started it. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I mean, they wouldn't like being forced to marry a straight, now would they?

 

[tinydancer]

So sad that 3.2% of 316 million people suddenly think they have a monopoly on the free thought of the other 96.8% of Americans. They are sorely mistaken. If they seek tolerance, they need to give it. If they want acceptance, they need to give it. But hey, if they want to be forced into doing things they don't approve of, hey they started it. I mean, they wouldn't like being forced to marry a straight, now would they?

Well on a day to day they love assholes. They are attracted to assholes. Does it surprise anyone that they act like assholes?

 

[TemplarKormac]

So sad that 3.2% of 316 million people suddenly think they have a monopoly on the free thought of the other 96.8% of Americans. They are sorely mistaken. If they seek tolerance, they need to give it. If they want acceptance, they need to give it. But hey, if they want to be forced into doing things they don't approve of, hey they started it. I mean, they wouldn't like being forced to marry a straight, now would they?

Well on a day to day they love assholes. They are attracted to assholes. Does it surprise anyone that they act like assholes?

Some people, liberals, in fact, don't need to be attracted to assholes to be assholes. Should homosexuals from the left learn the meaning of diplomacy instead of subjugation, perhaps they wouldn't come off as such. See what I'm saying?

 

[FA_Q2]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" are the very first words of the 1st Amendment to the US Bill of Rights. Above everything else within the realm of human imagination, the Founders stated first and foremost that religious doctrine of any faith will never be official US law.

They then followed those words with, "...nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof", which means that as long as religions stay out of public government, public government will remove itself from religious affairs. If Christians want to keep voting their faith, then the churches can start paying their fair share of taxes.

That's not what you are advocating. You are actually advocating that government get all up in religious affairs telling people what tenants they can and cannot follow under force of law.

nice work.

 

[TemplarKormac]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" are the very first words of the 1st Amendment to the US Bill of Rights. Above everything else within the realm of human imagination, the Founders stated first and foremost that religious doctrine of any faith will never be official US law.

They then followed those words with, "...nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof", which means that as long as religions stay out of public government, public government will remove itself from religious affairs. If Christians want to keep voting their faith, then the churches can start paying their fair share of taxes.

That's not what you are advocating. You are actually advocating that government get all up in religious affairs telling people what tenants they can and cannot follow under force of law.

nice work.

Yeah, and as someone else pointed out, we call "forced servitude under legal coercion" slavery. Any non corrupt lawyer would have a field day with this.

 

[JoeB131]

Why are they doomed? Why? Because our government insists on consigning us Christians to irrelevance. Our faith scares them, it teaches honesty, responsibility, fiscal responsibility, marital fidelity, commitments, submission to authority when that authority isn't you. But hey, some people are bothered by that. The idea of submitting something bigger than you. Never mind our religious freedom, though. We're just disposable pawns in this sick, twisted little game.

Actually, what scares us is a 2000 year history of murder, misogyny, homophobia, and child abuse to please an imaginary sky man. Which is why the Founders realized that separation of Church and State was important.

Hey, is there something in that teaching about "getting off your ass and getting a job"?

Anyway, where was I? The whole "religious freedom" argument is just a lame excuse to rationalize bad behavior.

If Hobby Lobby was really serious about hating abortion, they wouldn't be trying to keep their employees from getting birth control, they'd be pulling all their business from China, where they force women to have abortion. But Hobby Lobby gets 93% of their product from China.

Similiarly, the haters don't refuse to serve weddings where the couple "live together in sin", because that would cut their business by 60%. It's just a last gasp of their homophobia.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Why are they doomed? Why? Because our government insists on consigning us Christians to irrelevance. Our faith scares them, it teaches honesty, responsibility, fiscal responsibility, marital fidelity, commitments, submission to authority when that authority isn't you. But hey, some people are bothered by that. The idea of submitting something bigger than you. Never mind our religious freedom, though. We're just disposable pawns in this sick, twisted little game.

Actually, what scares us is a 2000 year history of murder, misogyny, homophobia, and child abuse to please an imaginary sky man. Which is why the Founders realized that separation of Church and State was important.

Hey, is there something in that teaching about "getting off your ass and getting a job"?

Anyway, where was I? The whole "religious freedom" argument is just a lame excuse to rationalize bad behavior.

If Hobby Lobby was really serious about hating abortion, they wouldn't be trying to keep their employees from getting birth control, they'd be pulling all their business from China, where they force women to have abortion. But Hobby Lobby gets 93% of their product from China.

Similiarly, the haters don't refuse to serve weddings where the couple "live together in sin", because that would cut their business by 60%. It's just a last gasp of their homophobia.

Yawn.

 

[Peterf]

Islam is perfectly intolerant. It does not believe in freedom if belief or expression. American forces were in Saudi Arabia during Gulf War I protecting the country from Saddam. To America's shame it complied with Saudi demands that US Army Christian padres removed the tiny crosses from their collars.

If you believe your Constitution tells you to tolerate an evil idoleogy then it is time to amend it.

 

[aaronleland]

Why are they doomed? Why? Because our government insists on consigning us Christians to irrelevance. Our faith scares them, it teaches honesty, responsibility, fiscal responsibility, marital fidelity, commitments, submission to authority when that authority isn't you. But hey, some people are bothered by that. The idea of submitting something bigger than you. Never mind our religious freedom, though. We're just disposable pawns in this sick, twisted little game.

Actually, what scares us is a 2000 year history of murder, misogyny, homophobia, and child abuse to please an imaginary sky man. Which is why the Founders realized that separation of Church and State was important.

Hey, is there something in that teaching about "getting off your ass and getting a job"?

Anyway, where was I? The whole "religious freedom" argument is just a lame excuse to rationalize bad behavior.

If Hobby Lobby was really serious about hating abortion, they wouldn't be trying to keep their employees from getting birth control, they'd be pulling all their business from China, where they force women to have abortion. But Hobby Lobby gets 93% of their product from China.

Similiarly, the haters don't refuse to serve weddings where the couple "live together in sin", because that would cut their business by 60%. It's just a last gasp of their homophobia.

Yawn.

You can avoid replying all you want, but most of what he said is true. These businesses will never put their money where their mouth is. It would hurt their bottom line. A bottom line Christ called sinful, I might add.