Why Must We Abandon Our Religious Beliefs to Operate A Business?

[Taz]

Exposing you as a fake Christian?

Exposing me as not being what YOU think a Christian is, and I would have told you with no difficulty that I'm not, and have no desire to be.

Now if we could just get you to understand and admit that YOU are the arbiter and standard of nothing whatsoever.

I'm the arbiter of you not being a very nice person. But you knew that already, didn't you?

No, you aren't. You're the arbiter of YOUR OPINION that I'm not a nice person, and your opinion is as meaningful to me as a taco fart. But you knew that already, didn't you?

LOL! Like you don't know that you're a bitch.

The two are not mutually exclusive. There are many people who think I'm a very nice person, and I value their opinions as I will never value yours.

Just like Jesus?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Exposing me as not being what YOU think a Christian is, and I would have told you with no difficulty that I'm not, and have no desire to be.

Now if we could just get you to understand and admit that YOU are the arbiter and standard of nothing whatsoever.

I'm the arbiter of you not being a very nice person. But you knew that already, didn't you?

No, you aren't. You're the arbiter of YOUR OPINION that I'm not a nice person, and your opinion is as meaningful to me as a taco fart. But you knew that already, didn't you?

LOL! Like you don't know that you're a bitch.

The two are not mutually exclusive. There are many people who think I'm a very nice person, and I value their opinions as I will never value yours.

Just like Jesus?

What, you think the moneychangers in the temple were thinking what a nice, spiffy person He was?

 

[dblack]

Didn't ask, don't care, resent having the info forced on me.

There's a difference between "think it's okay" and "think he should have the right." It's HIS business. I have zero desire to work for someone who doesn't want me around, and is just going to make me miserable. Also, if he's harboring such shitty beliefs and notions, it's gonna show up one way or the other, which means his business probably isn't going to last very long. I'd rather escape before it gets to that point.

FYI, I answered you twice, once directly and once by example. Your inability to hear anything but what you want is not my problem.

Someone's livelihood IS different from baking a cake. And your tunnel vision still isn't my problem. Figure it the fuck out, because I'm not in the mood to break out the crayons and draw pictures.

I'm a hypocrite because of what YOU ASSUME I would do? I don't think so. I think YOU are a hypocrite, and just project that onto everyone else in the erroneous assumption that you are somehow normal and representative of something.

You say it's different but it isn't.

If a cake baker can refuse client because god told him to why can't your boss fire you because god told him to? Does your employer have to give up his first amendment rights just so you can have a job?

You want to hold employers to different standards than bakers therefore you my dear are a fucking hypocrite

Yeah, there actually IS a difference. If I am already employed by someone, I have a contractual agreement with them. I have a certain amount of proprietary interest in their fulfillment of their end of the contract. That's very different from someone declining to enter into the contract in the first place. If the baker had taken the order for the cake, and THEN found out it was for a gay wedding and said he wouldn't do it, I would consider it a very different situation legally.

That being said, if my employer suddenly converted to fundamental Islam (which would be pretty weird, since my employer is actually a Jewish man living in Israel), and decided that it was sinful for women to work, my happy ass would be out the door. I would expect him to provide severance pay, since I wasn't let go for cause, and it's part of the employment contract. But it would be an utter waste of my time, money, and effort to pitch any sort of legal hissy fit over it. For one thing, he'd be out of business in about two minutes with that sort of worldview, since the vast majority of people who work in the legal transcription field are female, AND most of the clients are government or quasi-government entities, and they won't contract with a company like that. It's the very definition of a "self-correcting problem".

And once again, dipshit, there's a difference between what standard I hold people to and what standard YOU ASSUME I hold them to. I'm not a hypocrite because of what you imagine is true, because I'm not responsible for opinions you project onto me.

Good for you.

So you won't be upset at all if your good friend the baker loses most of his business because he is a bigot.

Depends on whether he loses it because people in his community decide not to do business with him, or he loses it because nosy ass kittens like you try to use the government to tell him what he can and can't believe.

He can believe whatever the fuck he wants. No one is telling him he can't believe that there is a magic sky fairy that farts rainbows. What the law states is that anyone who operates a business open to the public is bound by the laws of the land.

Which is ridiculous. They should be no more "bound" than anyone else, and enjoy all the same rights. I know it's practically the statist national anthem, but opening a business is not an oath to "serve the public".

 

[Taz]

I'm the arbiter of you not being a very nice person. But you knew that already, didn't you?

No, you aren't. You're the arbiter of YOUR OPINION that I'm not a nice person, and your opinion is as meaningful to me as a taco fart. But you knew that already, didn't you?

LOL! Like you don't know that you're a bitch.

The two are not mutually exclusive. There are many people who think I'm a very nice person, and I value their opinions as I will never value yours.

Just like Jesus?

What, you think the moneychangers in the temple were thinking what a nice, spiffy person He was?

So you admit that you're a bitch. Good for you.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No, you aren't. You're the arbiter of YOUR OPINION that I'm not a nice person, and your opinion is as meaningful to me as a taco fart. But you knew that already, didn't you?

LOL! Like you don't know that you're a bitch.

The two are not mutually exclusive. There are many people who think I'm a very nice person, and I value their opinions as I will never value yours.

Just like Jesus?

What, you think the moneychangers in the temple were thinking what a nice, spiffy person He was?

So you admit that you're a bitch. Good for you.

Now if we could just get you to admit you're an imbecile, our reality check would be complete.

 

[Taz]

LOL! Like you don't know that you're a bitch.

The two are not mutually exclusive. There are many people who think I'm a very nice person, and I value their opinions as I will never value yours.

Just like Jesus?

What, you think the moneychangers in the temple were thinking what a nice, spiffy person He was?

So you admit that you're a bitch. Good for you.

Now if we could just get you to admit you're an imbecile, our reality check would be complete.

So you're saying that an imbecile got you to admit that you're a bitch?

 

[danielpalos]

You say it's different but it isn't.

If a cake baker can refuse client because god told him to why can't your boss fire you because god told him to? Does your employer have to give up his first amendment rights just so you can have a job?

You want to hold employers to different standards than bakers therefore you my dear are a fucking hypocrite

Yeah, there actually IS a difference. If I am already employed by someone, I have a contractual agreement with them. I have a certain amount of proprietary interest in their fulfillment of their end of the contract. That's very different from someone declining to enter into the contract in the first place. If the baker had taken the order for the cake, and THEN found out it was for a gay wedding and said he wouldn't do it, I would consider it a very different situation legally.

That being said, if my employer suddenly converted to fundamental Islam (which would be pretty weird, since my employer is actually a Jewish man living in Israel), and decided that it was sinful for women to work, my happy ass would be out the door. I would expect him to provide severance pay, since I wasn't let go for cause, and it's part of the employment contract. But it would be an utter waste of my time, money, and effort to pitch any sort of legal hissy fit over it. For one thing, he'd be out of business in about two minutes with that sort of worldview, since the vast majority of people who work in the legal transcription field are female, AND most of the clients are government or quasi-government entities, and they won't contract with a company like that. It's the very definition of a "self-correcting problem".

And once again, dipshit, there's a difference between what standard I hold people to and what standard YOU ASSUME I hold them to. I'm not a hypocrite because of what you imagine is true, because I'm not responsible for opinions you project onto me.

Good for you.

So you won't be upset at all if your good friend the baker loses most of his business because he is a bigot.

Depends on whether he loses it because people in his community decide not to do business with him, or he loses it because nosy ass kittens like you try to use the government to tell him what he can and can't believe.

He can believe whatever the fuck he wants. No one is telling him he can't believe that there is a magic sky fairy that farts rainbows. What the law states is that anyone who operates a business open to the public is bound by the laws of the land.

Which is ridiculous. They should be no more "bound" than anyone else, and enjoy all the same rights. I know it's practically the statist national anthem, but opening a business is not an oath to "serve the public".

A business license implies adherence to some fixed Standards.

 

[featherlite]

The two are not mutually exclusive. There are many people who think I'm a very nice person, and I value their opinions as I will never value yours.

Just like Jesus?

What, you think the moneychangers in the temple were thinking what a nice, spiffy person He was?

So you admit that you're a bitch. Good for you.

Now if we could just get you to admit you're an imbecile, our reality check would be complete.

So you're saying that an imbecile got you to admit that you're a bitch?

Out of the mouths of imbeciles.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The two are not mutually exclusive. There are many people who think I'm a very nice person, and I value their opinions as I will never value yours.

Just like Jesus?

What, you think the moneychangers in the temple were thinking what a nice, spiffy person He was?

So you admit that you're a bitch. Good for you.

Now if we could just get you to admit you're an imbecile, our reality check would be complete.

So you're saying that an imbecile got you to admit that you're a bitch?

You seem to think this is something I'm supposed to have a problem with, and that you've somehow achieved a great accomplishment. You could actually have just asked, but you're such a moron, you can't conceive of your limited, uninformed worldview not being universal.

 

[BS Filter]

Yeah, there actually IS a difference. If I am already employed by someone, I have a contractual agreement with them. I have a certain amount of proprietary interest in their fulfillment of their end of the contract. That's very different from someone declining to enter into the contract in the first place. If the baker had taken the order for the cake, and THEN found out it was for a gay wedding and said he wouldn't do it, I would consider it a very different situation legally.

That being said, if my employer suddenly converted to fundamental Islam (which would be pretty weird, since my employer is actually a Jewish man living in Israel), and decided that it was sinful for women to work, my happy ass would be out the door. I would expect him to provide severance pay, since I wasn't let go for cause, and it's part of the employment contract. But it would be an utter waste of my time, money, and effort to pitch any sort of legal hissy fit over it. For one thing, he'd be out of business in about two minutes with that sort of worldview, since the vast majority of people who work in the legal transcription field are female, AND most of the clients are government or quasi-government entities, and they won't contract with a company like that. It's the very definition of a "self-correcting problem".

And once again, dipshit, there's a difference between what standard I hold people to and what standard YOU ASSUME I hold them to. I'm not a hypocrite because of what you imagine is true, because I'm not responsible for opinions you project onto me.

Good for you.

So you won't be upset at all if your good friend the baker loses most of his business because he is a bigot.

Depends on whether he loses it because people in his community decide not to do business with him, or he loses it because nosy ass kittens like you try to use the government to tell him what he can and can't believe.

He can believe whatever the fuck he wants. No one is telling him he can't believe that there is a magic sky fairy that farts rainbows. What the law states is that anyone who operates a business open to the public is bound by the laws of the land.

Which is ridiculous. They should be no more "bound" than anyone else, and enjoy all the same rights. I know it's practically the statist national anthem, but opening a business is not an oath to "serve the public".

A business license implies adherence to some fixed Standards.

Yes, but a business license doesn't mean you have to abandon your religious beliefs to submit to perverts.

 

[Taz]

Just like Jesus?

What, you think the moneychangers in the temple were thinking what a nice, spiffy person He was?

So you admit that you're a bitch. Good for you.

Now if we could just get you to admit you're an imbecile, our reality check would be complete.

So you're saying that an imbecile got you to admit that you're a bitch?

You seem to think this is something I'm supposed to have a problem with, and that you've somehow achieved a great accomplishment. You could actually have just asked, but you're such a moron, you can't conceive of your limited, uninformed worldview not being universal.

I beat you like a rug. Please try again soon.

 

[danielpalos]

Good for you.

So you won't be upset at all if your good friend the baker loses most of his business because he is a bigot.

Depends on whether he loses it because people in his community decide not to do business with him, or he loses it because nosy ass kittens like you try to use the government to tell him what he can and can't believe.

He can believe whatever the fuck he wants. No one is telling him he can't believe that there is a magic sky fairy that farts rainbows. What the law states is that anyone who operates a business open to the public is bound by the laws of the land.

Which is ridiculous. They should be no more "bound" than anyone else, and enjoy all the same rights. I know it's practically the statist national anthem, but opening a business is not an oath to "serve the public".

A business license implies adherence to some fixed Standards.

Yes, but a business license doesn't mean you have to abandon your religious beliefs to submit to perverts.

Your religious based bigotry is duly noted.

For-profit means just that. You are not in it for the sake of morals or you would be doing business on a not-for-profit basis.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Sorry. Corky, but it is against the law to fire anyone because of their religion, sex etc.

So they use some other reason ---- like, the position/department has been eliminated.

Maybe maybe not.

But if one is not fired for cause then the employer's costs for both State and Federal Unemployment taxes rise.

Not my problem. My employer understood what was involved in the employment contract before he entered into it, so if he chooses to discontinue the contract for reasons of his own, he gets to bear the cost of that choice.

OK so what if you didn't have a contract but were employed at will like most people?

Then it would be OK for the business owner to fire all the women because his new religion says it's a sin for women to work right?

I am employed at will. Doesn't mean there isn't a basic contractual obligation between employer and employee. That's not only been an accepted component of the law AND society since forever, it's also self-evident. When I was hired, we made certain agreements on each side, both explicit and implicit, to which we are both obligated. Among those are the procedures to be followed to terminate my employment, depending on the reason.

And please stop conflating "okay to do" with "has a right to make choices". I don't have to approve of someone's choices to recognize and defend his right to make them.

So you lied when you said you were under contract.
If you are employed at will there is no contract.

So then you obviously must support your employer's right to believe hiring women is a sin and then firing all the women using that religious belief as the reason right?

 

[BS Filter]

Depends on whether he loses it because people in his community decide not to do business with him, or he loses it because nosy ass kittens like you try to use the government to tell him what he can and can't believe.

He can believe whatever the fuck he wants. No one is telling him he can't believe that there is a magic sky fairy that farts rainbows. What the law states is that anyone who operates a business open to the public is bound by the laws of the land.

Which is ridiculous. They should be no more "bound" than anyone else, and enjoy all the same rights. I know it's practically the statist national anthem, but opening a business is not an oath to "serve the public".

A business license implies adherence to some fixed Standards.

Yes, but a business license doesn't mean you have to abandon your religious beliefs to submit to perverts.

Your religious based bigotry is duly noted.

For-profit means just that. You are not in it for the sake of morals or you would be doing business on a not-for-profit basis.

That's strictly your opinion. However, there is absolutely nothing in the Constitution that states citizens must abandon their religious beliefs when doing business. Christophobic bigot.

 

[danielpalos]

He can believe whatever the fuck he wants. No one is telling him he can't believe that there is a magic sky fairy that farts rainbows. What the law states is that anyone who operates a business open to the public is bound by the laws of the land.

Which is ridiculous. They should be no more "bound" than anyone else, and enjoy all the same rights. I know it's practically the statist national anthem, but opening a business is not an oath to "serve the public".

A business license implies adherence to some fixed Standards.

Yes, but a business license doesn't mean you have to abandon your religious beliefs to submit to perverts.

Your religious based bigotry is duly noted.

For-profit means just that. You are not in it for the sake of morals or you would be doing business on a not-for-profit basis.

That's strictly your opinion. However, there is absolutely nothing in the Constitution that states citizens must abandon their religious beliefs when doing business. Christophobic bigot.

Only if you appeal to ignorance in a vacuum of special pleading. Everyone has a First Amendment, not just bakers.

 

[WinterBorn]

Which is ridiculous. They should be no more "bound" than anyone else, and enjoy all the same rights. I know it's practically the statist national anthem, but opening a business is not an oath to "serve the public".

A business license implies adherence to some fixed Standards.

Yes, but a business license doesn't mean you have to abandon your religious beliefs to submit to perverts.

Your religious based bigotry is duly noted.

For-profit means just that. You are not in it for the sake of morals or you would be doing business on a not-for-profit basis.

That's strictly your opinion. However, there is absolutely nothing in the Constitution that states citizens must abandon their religious beliefs when doing business. Christophobic bigot.

Only if you appeal to ignorance in a vacuum of special pleading. Everyone has a First Amendment, not just bakers.

The 1st amendment uses the word "people". I thought you said that made it a collective right.

 

[BS Filter]

Which is ridiculous. They should be no more "bound" than anyone else, and enjoy all the same rights. I know it's practically the statist national anthem, but opening a business is not an oath to "serve the public".

A business license implies adherence to some fixed Standards.

Yes, but a business license doesn't mean you have to abandon your religious beliefs to submit to perverts.

Your religious based bigotry is duly noted.

For-profit means just that. You are not in it for the sake of morals or you would be doing business on a not-for-profit basis.

That's strictly your opinion. However, there is absolutely nothing in the Constitution that states citizens must abandon their religious beliefs when doing business. Christophobic bigot.

Only if you appeal to ignorance in a vacuum of special pleading. Everyone has a First Amendment, not just bakers.

You're confused here. You can't force anyone to deny their religious beliefs.

 

[WinterBorn]

A business license implies adherence to some fixed Standards.

Yes, but a business license doesn't mean you have to abandon your religious beliefs to submit to perverts.

Your religious based bigotry is duly noted.

For-profit means just that. You are not in it for the sake of morals or you would be doing business on a not-for-profit basis.

That's strictly your opinion. However, there is absolutely nothing in the Constitution that states citizens must abandon their religious beliefs when doing business. Christophobic bigot.

Only if you appeal to ignorance in a vacuum of special pleading. Everyone has a First Amendment, not just bakers.

You're confused here. You can't force anyone to deny their religious beliefs.

And when is anyone being forced to deny their religious beliefs? By baking a cake? Your religious views are still intact. No one is saying you can't believe as you believe. But there are laws against discrimination by businesses. You are not participating in the same sex wedding. You are not even condoning the wedding. You were hired to bake a cake. You would bake a cake for adulterers. And that is listed in the 10 Commandments.

 

[BS Filter]

Yes, but a business license doesn't mean you have to abandon your religious beliefs to submit to perverts.

Your religious based bigotry is duly noted.

For-profit means just that. You are not in it for the sake of morals or you would be doing business on a not-for-profit basis.

That's strictly your opinion. However, there is absolutely nothing in the Constitution that states citizens must abandon their religious beliefs when doing business. Christophobic bigot.

Only if you appeal to ignorance in a vacuum of special pleading. Everyone has a First Amendment, not just bakers.

You're confused here. You can't force anyone to deny their religious beliefs.

And when is anyone being forced to deny their religious beliefs? By baking a cake? Your religious views are still intact. No one is saying you can't believe as you believe. But there are laws against discrimination by businesses. You are not participating in the same sex wedding. You are not even condoning the wedding. You were hired to bake a cake. You would bake a cake for adulterers. And that is listed in the 10 Commandments.

No, the baker wasn't hired by the queers. That's a lie. The queers targeted the Christian and tried to force him to submit to something he doesn't believe in. Now go ahead and prove your accusation that the baker would sell a cake condoning adultery. Your fantasy isn't reality. Go ahead, prove it.

 

[WinterBorn]

Your religious based bigotry is duly noted.

For-profit means just that. You are not in it for the sake of morals or you would be doing business on a not-for-profit basis.

That's strictly your opinion. However, there is absolutely nothing in the Constitution that states citizens must abandon their religious beliefs when doing business. Christophobic bigot.

Only if you appeal to ignorance in a vacuum of special pleading. Everyone has a First Amendment, not just bakers.

You're confused here. You can't force anyone to deny their religious beliefs.

And when is anyone being forced to deny their religious beliefs? By baking a cake? Your religious views are still intact. No one is saying you can't believe as you believe. But there are laws against discrimination by businesses. You are not participating in the same sex wedding. You are not even condoning the wedding. You were hired to bake a cake. You would bake a cake for adulterers. And that is listed in the 10 Commandments.

No, the baker wasn't hired by the queers. That's a lie. The queers targeted the Christian and tried to force him to submit to something he doesn't believe in. Now go ahead and prove your accusation that the baker would sell a cake condoning adultery. Your fantasy isn't reality. Go ahead, prove it.

If you have a business that is open to the public there are laws against discrimination. Just like white restaurants have to serve black patrons. The owners may not believe in mixing of the races. They can have those beliefs in their private life. But a business open to the public cannot discriminate according to the laws.

It doesn't matter if they targeted a Christian baker. The Christian baker has a business license and is required to follow the laws. What made it a huge deal is the fact that the baker pitched a hissy fit. If they had simply baked a cake, collected the money, and ignored whatever nonsense was involved, it would not have been anything but a business transaction. The baker has a business license to bake cakes for money. There is no religious belief involves in baking a cake. It does not mean they participated in the wedding or condoned anything.

You don't think they have had any customers say this was their 2nd marriage? Or had a pregnant woman buy a wedding cake?