Why Land of the Free is so conflicted on health care..

[Nosmo King]

Oranges to Grapefruit is Health Insurance to Auto Insurance?

The common denominator is individual choice: We should choose to eat oranges, grapefruit, or health insurance without having it shoved down our throats.

Under the bill as it is currently written, will you still be able to keep the coverage you now have? Will you still be able to see the doctor of your choice (provided that your current coverage permits that?)

What is being shoved down your throat aside from a thermometer?

And your taxes still subsidizing care for others... not to mention the penalties if you choose to have primo coverage... not to mention penalties if you exercise your freedom not to carry insurance.. not to mention a red-tape money wasting government running the system... the list goes on

It is not the job of government to be your nanny... and certainly not to be an insurance carrier

Are you advocating elimination of Medicare and VA hospitals too? Sell that to the senior citizens and the vets who have served our country so well!

 

[Diuretic]

It seems that many examples of successful universal health care from around the world could be produced for discussion but they would be opposed on ideological and patriotic grounds.

 

[Nosmo King]

It seems that many examples of successful universal health care from around the world could be produced for discussion but they would be opposed on ideological and patriotic grounds.

Odd that they are never considered from a practical standpoint, huh?

 

[Harry Dresden]

You are equating universal healthcare with a lack of capitalist rewards for individuals experimenting in medical treatments?

With out the profits to be had for innovation and new meds there would be no rush of new innovations or new meds. Pretty simple concept even a child could grasp.

The vast majority of innovations come from non profit universities.

Pretty simple concept even a child could grasp.

why dont you prove that with a link Mr. Twain....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Government is the watch dog to protect the consumer from criminal practices. And the practices demonstrated by insurance companies is just this side of criminal.

then why doesnt that "GOVT" just tell the ins companies there will be some new laws in effect here....if you cant abide by them then your out of business.....you know like no one being turned away for a pre-existing condition....no dropping someone if they happen to get a major disease....stuff like that.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Fix the problem areas.. but don't blow up the whole system and put an inefficient, corrupt, red-tape laden government in charge of running insurance or care

thats it right there.....all you need to do...

 

[Immanuel]

To illustrate, compare the U.K. tax structure with the one in the U.S. For example, a family making $60,000 in the U.K. faces a 20 percent rate, while the American family faces a 15 percent tax rate. (There are other differences in the systems concerning personal allowances, etc., but those are not relevant for this discussion.) British tax authorities report that those making more than 1 million pounds, or about $1.6 million, pay an average tax rate of 35.7 percent. By comparison, the IRS reports that Americans making more than $1 million pay just a 15.9 percent average tax rate. (The figures are from 2008 for the U.K. and 2006 for the United States.)

Wow, my family pays a 15% tax rate and so do NFL stars earning a million a year? This isn't right is it?

Unless you are extremely wealthy, you don't pay 15% of your earnings. Your marginal rate (i.e. the rate you will pay on your next dollar earned) is 15% but your effective rate is much less than that.

You see, all those mortgage deductions, charitable contributions, exemptions etc. reduce your effective rate of taxation. To figure out your effective rate divide the amount you pay in income tax by the amount of your gross earnings. I suspect it will be much less than the 15.9% paid by those making a cool million.

Immie

 

[rdean]

Why Land of the Free is so conflicted on health care..

Health care companies have really good PR. Ask anyone if HC CEOs should have hundred million dollar salaries when all they do is stand between you and your doctor. Every time, they will say, "Of course not".

But Republicans are even better at scaring Americans than al Qaeda. Since they have been bought and paid for by HC companies, they have turned their considerable talent to screwing he Middle Class. The fact that they can also damage a black president is just the cherry, that extra added bonus. If only they loved America a tenth as much as they claimed, all of the vanishing Middle Class would have health care..

 

[Harry Dresden]

It seems that many examples of successful universal health care from around the world could be produced for discussion but they would be opposed on ideological and patriotic grounds.

there is nothing wrong with going around the world and seeing what is working and what isnt....the problem is guys like Chris will say France has the best system and show all the positives....but he will neglect to show the negatives....and France has a few negatives....but to Chris they dont ...so they dont exist to him.....so people like Chris will come off as being dishonest.....some try to do that with Canadas system.....they too have problems....im sure Oz has problems DI....BUT there are no doubt many positives also.....if people would go look, over here this works...but this doesnt.....the discussion would probably flow better.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Why Land of the Free is so conflicted on health care..

Health care companies have really good PR. Ask anyone if HC CEOs should have hundred million dollar salaries when all they do is stand between you and your doctor. Every time, they will say, "Of course not".

But Republicans are even better at scaring Americans than al Qaeda. Since they have been bought and paid for by HC companies, they have turned their considerable talent to screwing he Middle Class. The fact that they can also damage a black president is just the cherry, that extra added bonus. If only they loved America a tenth as much as they claimed, all of the vanishing Middle Class would have health care..

this is another reason why many people from a conservative Dem, on into the Republicans, will never listen to those in charge right now....people like Rdean, Chris, Zona and Midcant....the 4 turds of Pelosi....doing the selling.... anytime a decent Democrat makes a good point and right leaners are going...OK ....good point lets talk....these guys will spout off and turn everyone off to the prospects of talking....if you loved America Dean-o a tenth as much as you claim....you would SHUT THE **** UP......your not helping dipshit.....

 

[potter 58]

harry , how can you expect honesty,I'm 60 and never have found it, but since 94 it got out of hand what do you think, on both sides

 

[Diuretic]

It seems that many examples of successful universal health care from around the world could be produced for discussion but they would be opposed on ideological and patriotic grounds.

Odd that they are never considered from a practical standpoint, huh?

Sometimes there's so much static thrown up that people just get confused about it all. And that works for the conservative position more than it does for the progressive.

 

[Diuretic]

It seems that many examples of successful universal health care from around the world could be produced for discussion but they would be opposed on ideological and patriotic grounds.

there is nothing wrong with going around the world and seeing what is working and what isnt....the problem is guys like Chris will say France has the best system and show all the positives....but he will neglect to show the negatives....and France has a few negatives....but to Chris they dont ...so they dont exist to him.....so people like Chris will come off as being dishonest.....some try to do that with Canadas system.....they too have problems....im sure Oz has problems DI....BUT there are no doubt many positives also.....if people would go look, over here this works...but this doesnt.....the discussion would probably flow better.....

Fair enough Harry - the ideology thing does go both ways, agreed. And I realise that the US is a different political system to many others and that can't be discounted because the purpose of politics is to sort that sort of thing out.

You're right, we have our own problems for sure. But I reckon we've got a good model for us. It would not work for the States, 300 million plus against 22 million of us is an indicator, but maybe it could work for agglomerations of states in the US.

Anyway, point taken, we all should dump ideology and get practical or I am in danger of contradicting myself!

 

[Immanuel]

It seems that many examples of successful universal health care from around the world could be produced for discussion but they would be opposed on ideological and patriotic grounds.

Odd that they are never considered from a practical standpoint, huh?

I honestly am not so opposed to the idea of universal coverage.

I am extremely opposed to the idea of our government managing health insurance in the manner that it has managed Medicare and Social Security not to mention our tax dollars in general. This government is inept and corrupt.

I will fight tooth and nail against giving Congress control of my health insurance dollars, because I can only foresee those dollars ending up in the general fund and piss poor health coverage not to mention medical personnel being untrained and unqualified to do the job.

Immie

 

[Nosmo King]

Government is the watch dog to protect the consumer from criminal practices. And the practices demonstrated by insurance companies is just this side of criminal.

then why doesnt that "GOVT" just tell the ins companies there will be some new laws in effect here....if you cant abide by them then your out of business.....you know like no one being turned away for a pre-existing condition....no dropping someone if they happen to get a major disease....stuff like that.....

I wonder why the Republicans did not push those reforms more vigorously? They put all their energy and political capital behind opposing everything and anything.

And you are incredulous as to the ineptitude and inefficiency of government.

 

[Harry Dresden]

harry , how can you expect honesty,I'm 60 and never have found it, but since 94 it got out of hand what do you think, on both sides

potter....guys like Rdean only see their side,and of course its the right side of the argument and of course the rest of ya who dont see that...are wrong......Rdean has some good points,but then he opens his yap and starts spouting his far left BullShit,and kills his point....if you cant expect honesty from people anymore,we are not going anywhere soon....it used to be politicians were the dishonest ones and the people,Democrats and Republicans and others would keep them at bay.....now apparently some of their constituents are just as dishonest as they are......

 

[Harry Dresden]

And you are incredulous as to the ineptitude and inefficiency of government.

are the Republicans in charge right now?.....who is being "Incredulous" now?
i work for the govt.....i see its ineptitude and inefficiency every dam day....

 

[Navy1960]

While this may seem somewhat radical for a Republican and I have mentioned it before, but it seems to me that for many the high costs of healthcare come into play when there is a catastrophic event in their lifetime. There is much talk about the creation of this "public option" or not too, or Medicaid, or it's socialism whatever. However, it would appear that the best course would be to try and build upon what we have to make it better. First, we are not like any other nation on the planet and that is what has made us strong so why then should we craft a healthcare system that reflects the needs of other nations and not our own? Call it what you will, call it purple if you want too, as long as it works and gives people the right to decide for themselves what it is they wish to do.

Rather than taking away from Medicare, why not shore it up and repair it? It would seem that investing in a system to fix would be money well spent. As part of that eliminate the age restriction on Medicare and allow for the purchase of Catastrophic healthcare coverage much like life insurance, but allow that citizens make this choice not the Govt. for them. In conjunction with this open the entire nation up to competetion among the private insurance companies, so that those who wish to have more coverage can have many choices rather than few choices for on-going care. Still further, you can do things, like malpractice insurance reform, allow for the purchase of drugs anywhere a patient wants them. Those are just a few things that can be done with what we have , but the bottom line is that we must understand that our nation is not the same as others and the solutions will NOT be the same as others.

 

[DiamondDave]

It seems that many examples of successful universal health care from around the world could be produced for discussion but they would be opposed on ideological and patriotic grounds.

Odd that they are never considered from a practical standpoint, huh?

I honestly am not so opposed to the idea of universal coverage.

I am extremely opposed to the idea of our government managing health insurance in the manner that it has managed Medicare and Social Security not to mention our tax dollars in general. This government is inept and corrupt.

I will fight tooth and nail against giving Congress control of my health insurance dollars, because I can only foresee those dollars ending up in the general fund and piss poor health coverage not to mention medical personnel being untrained and unqualified to do the job.

Immie

You're not opposed to universal college??? I would ONLY agree if those attending were minors.. once you are an adult, your decisions are yours and your personal education and well being is your own... not society's, not the government's, not mine, and not Joe McFuckernut in Boise Idaho

 

[Immanuel]

Odd that they are never considered from a practical standpoint, huh?

I honestly am not so opposed to the idea of universal coverage.

I am extremely opposed to the idea of our government managing health insurance in the manner that it has managed Medicare and Social Security not to mention our tax dollars in general. This government is inept and corrupt.

I will fight tooth and nail against giving Congress control of my health insurance dollars, because I can only foresee those dollars ending up in the general fund and piss poor health coverage not to mention medical personnel being untrained and unqualified to do the job.

Immie

You're not opposed to universal college??? I would ONLY agree if those attending were minors.. once you are an adult, your decisions are yours and your personal education and well being is your own... not society's, not the government's, not mine, and not Joe McFuckernut in Boise Idaho

What does college have to do with this?

I typed coverage.

No, I am not opposed to the idea of universal health care especially if most of us are paying for it on our own through our tax dollars. I've never been opposed to helping the poor out through welfare either so I don't find that inconsistant with my previous stance.

What I am concerned about is how it is done and who controls the purse string. Who hires, trains and pays medical professionals and who sets the fee schedules... among other things such as how much it costs.

Immie