Why it was easy for pagans to become christians

[Disir]

Burning their shit and killing them made it much moar easy to adapt. It was a top down religion. :/

Along with the wholesale misappropriation of pagan practices and beliefs by Christian proselytizers, making Christianity very familiar to pagans, thus facilitating their conversion.

Absolutely. After burning their crap and killing them. This did not go down easy. Christianity was a very tiny group and there seems to be this misconception that Christianity grew from the bottom up. It did not. It was a top down religion. Not just for pagans but for other Christians. By including this "it wasn't difficult or them to make the switch" it ignores a couple of centuries of history and implies that everyone just went along for the ride. That didn't happen.

I think they started from the bottom up, but once they gained power - conversion was no longer a choice. It's not unique to Christianity, Islam was similar. Both offered and far better choice than the old ways - redemption, charity, good works, care of orphans and widows, and inclusion - what ever you were before mattered not. Not a bad thing.

Can you back that up? You can't have it both ways. You can't have conversion was no longer a choice and inclusion. Unless you mean something different from how I am reading it. There is nothing that I have found that remotely suggests that either Christianity or Islam was a far better choice or that redemption, charity, good works, and social welfare was a new concept or done better.



+

I was reading a biography of Mohammed, and at the beginning of the religion, his big concern was people had drifted away from God and from taking care of the vulnerable in their communities. Instead they focused on ostentatioua displays of largesse, part of the arab culture, widows and orphans were impoverished and marginalized, and he sought to turn that around. Anyone could become a Muslim regardless of their status and his first converts and followers were low status people. It was the same with Jesus, he welcomed the poor, the enslaved, the harlots and he spoke against the greedy wealthy. He emphasized charity, inclusion. I'm not saying that charity, welfare etc is a *new* concept, but it was greatly lacking in the era inwhich they were living.

Dhimmis otherwise known as but hey, we let you live-this time. Living depended on whom was in power. Mohammed simply consolidated land and took out anyone that stood in his way. It was a power grab.

There was no historical Jesus. There are plenty of people that wanted to overthrow the Romans and whatever local authorities supported them.

I think you provide excellent discussions as well.

 

[Penelope]

From earliest times, paganism featured many gods often subsumed beneath or within one apparently greater god. Each tribe or territory had their own god, but as they were subsumed within other tribes by conquest or some other form of domination, their god became subsumed beneath the god of the dominant tribe or nation. Thus there developed pantheons of gods, and yet within the pantheons there was often a hierarchy, and a desire to insist on one hand that the god of the subdued people still existed, and yet on the other hand, an insistence that the god of the dominant group was supreme. When tribes were taken into captivity, or conquerors came and lived in their land, the gods had to somehow be accommodated within a religious system. And so began the idea of 'godheads'. The mysterious, ill defined relationships between the members of the supposed 'Trinity' are very similar to those assumed within the godheads of paganism. Apologists for the Trinity are all divided about the nature of the relationships between Father, Son and Holy Spirit; this is a weak point in the whole idea. And the very same difficulty is encountered by any who would wish to explain or defend the gods within the pagan godheads. Further, it becomes apparent from the literature and sculptured art of early paganism that gods, animals and humans all tend to get mixed up; half-human and half-god. Again, we can see how this came to be reflected in Trinitarian views of the christian man god Jesus.

The idea of a Divine figure coming to earth to redeem the faithful was a very common pagan myth in the Middle East of the first century . It's easy to see how early Christians would've been tempted to claim that Christ was some form of pre-existent God in order to make their beliefs accommodate the surrounding paganism- and it's understandable that some would've been eager to misinterpret Bible passages to this end.

The idea of a 'trinity' of gods was widespread in paganism. The Egyptians had three main gods, Osiris, Isis and Horus. Horus was in turn divided into 3 parts or persons:

Horus - the King
Horus - Ra
Horus - the Scarabaeus.

Likewise the Hindu Vedas of around 1000 BC claimed that one God existed in three forms:

Agni - Fire, presiding over the earth
Indra - the Firmament, presiding over the mid-air
Surya - The Sun. presiding over the Heavens.

In later Hinduism, the 'trimurti' or trinity of gods became:

Brahma - the creative power
Vishnu - the preserving power
Siva - the transforming power.

So when Theophilus, bishop of Antioch introduced the word 'trias' to Christian literature for the first time in 170 CE, and the word 'trinitas' was first used by Tertullian in 200 CE, they were importing pagan concepts which were familiar and had been for millennia.Coupled with virgins having relation with gods as was in their pagan belifes it wasn't difficult or them to make the switch

Burning their shit and killing them made it much moar easy to adapt. It was a top down religion. :/

Along with the wholesale misappropriation of pagan practices and beliefs by Christian proselytizers, making Christianity very familiar to pagans, thus facilitating their conversion.

Absolutely. After burning their crap and killing them. This did not go down easy. Christianity was a very tiny group and there seems to be this misconception that Christianity grew from the bottom up. It did not. It was a top down religion. Not just for pagans but for other Christians. By including this "it wasn't difficult or them to make the switch" it ignores a couple of centuries of history and implies that everyone just went along for the ride. That didn't happen.

I believe its the Jews who were pagans, in 1 Ad Hebrew was already almost a dead language. Not to mention they married and had babies with non jew women, more Jews lived in Alexandria in 1 Ad than in Jerusalem. We don't even know who the Hebrews were but they spoke the Canaanite language, big mystery.

 

[guno]

From earliest times, paganism featured many gods often subsumed beneath or within one apparently greater god. Each tribe or territory had their own god, but as they were subsumed within other tribes by conquest or some other form of domination, their god became subsumed beneath the god of the dominant tribe or nation. Thus there developed pantheons of gods, and yet within the pantheons there was often a hierarchy, and a desire to insist on one hand that the god of the subdued people still existed, and yet on the other hand, an insistence that the god of the dominant group was supreme. When tribes were taken into captivity, or conquerors came and lived in their land, the gods had to somehow be accommodated within a religious system. And so began the idea of 'godheads'. The mysterious, ill defined relationships between the members of the supposed 'Trinity' are very similar to those assumed within the godheads of paganism. Apologists for the Trinity are all divided about the nature of the relationships between Father, Son and Holy Spirit; this is a weak point in the whole idea. And the very same difficulty is encountered by any who would wish to explain or defend the gods within the pagan godheads. Further, it becomes apparent from the literature and sculptured art of early paganism that gods, animals and humans all tend to get mixed up; half-human and half-god. Again, we can see how this came to be reflected in Trinitarian views of the christian man god Jesus.

The idea of a Divine figure coming to earth to redeem the faithful was a very common pagan myth in the Middle East of the first century . It's easy to see how early Christians would've been tempted to claim that Christ was some form of pre-existent God in order to make their beliefs accommodate the surrounding paganism- and it's understandable that some would've been eager to misinterpret Bible passages to this end.

The idea of a 'trinity' of gods was widespread in paganism. The Egyptians had three main gods, Osiris, Isis and Horus. Horus was in turn divided into 3 parts or persons:

Horus - the King
Horus - Ra
Horus - the Scarabaeus.

Likewise the Hindu Vedas of around 1000 BC claimed that one God existed in three forms:

Agni - Fire, presiding over the earth
Indra - the Firmament, presiding over the mid-air
Surya - The Sun. presiding over the Heavens.

In later Hinduism, the 'trimurti' or trinity of gods became:

Brahma - the creative power
Vishnu - the preserving power
Siva - the transforming power.

So when Theophilus, bishop of Antioch introduced the word 'trias' to Christian literature for the first time in 170 CE, and the word 'trinitas' was first used by Tertullian in 200 CE, they were importing pagan concepts which were familiar and had been for millennia.Coupled with virgins having relation with gods as was in their pagan belifes it wasn't difficult or them to make the switch

Burning their shit and killing them made it much moar easy to adapt. It was a top down religion. :/

Along with the wholesale misappropriation of pagan practices and beliefs by Christian proselytizers, making Christianity very familiar to pagans, thus facilitating their conversion.

Absolutely. After burning their crap and killing them. This did not go down easy. Christianity was a very tiny group and there seems to be this misconception that Christianity grew from the bottom up. It did not. It was a top down religion. Not just for pagans but for other Christians. By including this "it wasn't difficult or them to make the switch" it ignores a couple of centuries of history and implies that everyone just went along for the ride. That didn't happen.

I believe its the Jews who were pagans, in 1 Ad Hebrew was already almost a dead language. Not to mention they married and had babies with non jew women, more Jews lived in Alexandria in 1 Ad than in Jerusalem. We don't even know who the Hebrews were but they spoke the Canaanite language, big mystery.

stop bowing to statues , huffing incense and swinging your rosary

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The first Christians were Jews

 

[guno]

cannot get more pagan then this

 

[Penelope]

From earliest times, paganism featured many gods often subsumed beneath or within one apparently greater god. Each tribe or territory had their own god, but as they were subsumed within other tribes by conquest or some other form of domination, their god became subsumed beneath the god of the dominant tribe or nation. Thus there developed pantheons of gods, and yet within the pantheons there was often a hierarchy, and a desire to insist on one hand that the god of the subdued people still existed, and yet on the other hand, an insistence that the god of the dominant group was supreme. When tribes were taken into captivity, or conquerors came and lived in their land, the gods had to somehow be accommodated within a religious system. And so began the idea of 'godheads'. The mysterious, ill defined relationships between the members of the supposed 'Trinity' are very similar to those assumed within the godheads of paganism. Apologists for the Trinity are all divided about the nature of the relationships between Father, Son and Holy Spirit; this is a weak point in the whole idea. And the very same difficulty is encountered by any who would wish to explain or defend the gods within the pagan godheads. Further, it becomes apparent from the literature and sculptured art of early paganism that gods, animals and humans all tend to get mixed up; half-human and half-god. Again, we can see how this came to be reflected in Trinitarian views of the christian man god Jesus.

The idea of a Divine figure coming to earth to redeem the faithful was a very common pagan myth in the Middle East of the first century . It's easy to see how early Christians would've been tempted to claim that Christ was some form of pre-existent God in order to make their beliefs accommodate the surrounding paganism- and it's understandable that some would've been eager to misinterpret Bible passages to this end.

The idea of a 'trinity' of gods was widespread in paganism. The Egyptians had three main gods, Osiris, Isis and Horus. Horus was in turn divided into 3 parts or persons:

Horus - the King
Horus - Ra
Horus - the Scarabaeus.

Likewise the Hindu Vedas of around 1000 BC claimed that one God existed in three forms:

Agni - Fire, presiding over the earth
Indra - the Firmament, presiding over the mid-air
Surya - The Sun. presiding over the Heavens.

In later Hinduism, the 'trimurti' or trinity of gods became:

Brahma - the creative power
Vishnu - the preserving power
Siva - the transforming power.

So when Theophilus, bishop of Antioch introduced the word 'trias' to Christian literature for the first time in 170 CE, and the word 'trinitas' was first used by Tertullian in 200 CE, they were importing pagan concepts which were familiar and had been for millennia.Coupled with virgins having relation with gods as was in their pagan belifes it wasn't difficult or them to make the switch

Burning their shit and killing them made it much moar easy to adapt. It was a top down religion. :/

Along with the wholesale misappropriation of pagan practices and beliefs by Christian proselytizers, making Christianity very familiar to pagans, thus facilitating their conversion.

Absolutely. After burning their crap and killing them. This did not go down easy. Christianity was a very tiny group and there seems to be this misconception that Christianity grew from the bottom up. It did not. It was a top down religion. Not just for pagans but for other Christians. By including this "it wasn't difficult or them to make the switch" it ignores a couple of centuries of history and implies that everyone just went along for the ride. That didn't happen.

I believe its the Jews who were pagans, in 1 Ad Hebrew was already almost a dead language. Not to mention they married and had babies with non jew women, more Jews lived in Alexandria in 1 Ad than in Jerusalem. We don't even know who the Hebrews were but they spoke the Canaanite language, big mystery.

stop bowing to statues , huffing incense and swinging your rosary

From earliest times, paganism featured many gods often subsumed beneath or within one apparently greater god. Each tribe or territory had their own god, but as they were subsumed within other tribes by conquest or some other form of domination, their god became subsumed beneath the god of the dominant tribe or nation. Thus there developed pantheons of gods, and yet within the pantheons there was often a hierarchy, and a desire to insist on one hand that the god of the subdued people still existed, and yet on the other hand, an insistence that the god of the dominant group was supreme. When tribes were taken into captivity, or conquerors came and lived in their land, the gods had to somehow be accommodated within a religious system. And so began the idea of 'godheads'. The mysterious, ill defined relationships between the members of the supposed 'Trinity' are very similar to those assumed within the godheads of paganism. Apologists for the Trinity are all divided about the nature of the relationships between Father, Son and Holy Spirit; this is a weak point in the whole idea. And the very same difficulty is encountered by any who would wish to explain or defend the gods within the pagan godheads. Further, it becomes apparent from the literature and sculptured art of early paganism that gods, animals and humans all tend to get mixed up; half-human and half-god. Again, we can see how this came to be reflected in Trinitarian views of the christian man god Jesus.

The idea of a Divine figure coming to earth to redeem the faithful was a very common pagan myth in the Middle East of the first century . It's easy to see how early Christians would've been tempted to claim that Christ was some form of pre-existent God in order to make their beliefs accommodate the surrounding paganism- and it's understandable that some would've been eager to misinterpret Bible passages to this end.

The idea of a 'trinity' of gods was widespread in paganism. The Egyptians had three main gods, Osiris, Isis and Horus. Horus was in turn divided into 3 parts or persons:

Horus - the King
Horus - Ra
Horus - the Scarabaeus.

Likewise the Hindu Vedas of around 1000 BC claimed that one God existed in three forms:

Agni - Fire, presiding over the earth
Indra - the Firmament, presiding over the mid-air
Surya - The Sun. presiding over the Heavens.

In later Hinduism, the 'trimurti' or trinity of gods became:

Brahma - the creative power
Vishnu - the preserving power
Siva - the transforming power.

So when Theophilus, bishop of Antioch introduced the word 'trias' to Christian literature for the first time in 170 CE, and the word 'trinitas' was first used by Tertullian in 200 CE, they were importing pagan concepts which were familiar and had been for millennia.Coupled with virgins having relation with gods as was in their pagan belifes it wasn't difficult or them to make the switch

Burning their shit and killing them made it much moar easy to adapt. It was a top down religion. :/

Along with the wholesale misappropriation of pagan practices and beliefs by Christian proselytizers, making Christianity very familiar to pagans, thus facilitating their conversion.

Absolutely. After burning their crap and killing them. This did not go down easy. Christianity was a very tiny group and there seems to be this misconception that Christianity grew from the bottom up. It did not. It was a top down religion. Not just for pagans but for other Christians. By including this "it wasn't difficult or them to make the switch" it ignores a couple of centuries of history and implies that everyone just went along for the ride. That didn't happen.

I believe its the Jews who were pagans, in 1 Ad Hebrew was already almost a dead language. Not to mention they married and had babies with non jew women, more Jews lived in Alexandria in 1 Ad than in Jerusalem. We don't even know who the Hebrews were but they spoke the Canaanite language, big mystery.

stop bowing to statues , huffing incense and swinging your rosary

the maj of RC do not do that, only the orthodox ones, you know like the orthodox jews and their weird rituals .

 

[Penelope]

cannot get more pagan then this

at least he is kissing the knee and the baby is not alive. (I think you know what I'm referring to)

 

[guno]

Burning their shit and killing them made it much moar easy to adapt. It was a top down religion. :/

Along with the wholesale misappropriation of pagan practices and beliefs by Christian proselytizers, making Christianity very familiar to pagans, thus facilitating their conversion.

Absolutely. After burning their crap and killing them. This did not go down easy. Christianity was a very tiny group and there seems to be this misconception that Christianity grew from the bottom up. It did not. It was a top down religion. Not just for pagans but for other Christians. By including this "it wasn't difficult or them to make the switch" it ignores a couple of centuries of history and implies that everyone just went along for the ride. That didn't happen.

I believe its the Jews who were pagans, in 1 Ad Hebrew was already almost a dead language. Not to mention they married and had babies with non jew women, more Jews lived in Alexandria in 1 Ad than in Jerusalem. We don't even know who the Hebrews were but they spoke the Canaanite language, big mystery.

stop bowing to statues , huffing incense and swinging your rosary

Burning their shit and killing them made it much moar easy to adapt. It was a top down religion. :/

Along with the wholesale misappropriation of pagan practices and beliefs by Christian proselytizers, making Christianity very familiar to pagans, thus facilitating their conversion.

Absolutely. After burning their crap and killing them. This did not go down easy. Christianity was a very tiny group and there seems to be this misconception that Christianity grew from the bottom up. It did not. It was a top down religion. Not just for pagans but for other Christians. By including this "it wasn't difficult or them to make the switch" it ignores a couple of centuries of history and implies that everyone just went along for the ride. That didn't happen.

I believe its the Jews who were pagans, in 1 Ad Hebrew was already almost a dead language. Not to mention they married and had babies with non jew women, more Jews lived in Alexandria in 1 Ad than in Jerusalem. We don't even know who the Hebrews were but they spoke the Canaanite language, big mystery.

stop bowing to statues , huffing incense and swinging your rosary

the maj of RC do not do that, only the orthodox ones, you know like the orthodox jews and their weird rituals .

really? just step inside any cat'lic church and the status will be there of either jebus, the voi-gen mary or one of there pagan saints or a combination on their front lawn or in the church

 

[guno]

 

[amrchaos]

Which begs the question

Who think Christianity rapidly converted the pagans in Western Europe?

Who thinks that Christianity had t go through a massive theological/ritual overhaul to become what it is today in the West?

I love it when Protestants criticize RCC's rituals and theological concepts. If the RCC did not take these steps in propaganda, there probably wouldn't be any Protestants, or Christianity in Western Europe!