Why Isn't This A Death Penalty?

[George Costanza]

The addition of a hate crime would be welcome just to enhance his time behind bars, but I wonder if this fellow exercises any exclusivity in the victims he abuses.

Congratulations on showing an understanding of the underlying rationale behind hate crime legislation. You are one of the few on this board who has such understanding.

 

[Katzndogz]

If the attacker is a black teen, and the victim is a white adult, you won't see any thing remotely like this being charged as a hate crime.

 

[PoliticalChic]

If the attacker is a black teen, and the victim is a white adult, you won't see any thing remotely like this being charged as a hate crime.

Former NYC Mayor Ed Koch was originally on the right side of the 'hate crime,' or as we conservatives refer to it...'crime'...question, and made this proposal:

Rather than guessing what a perp was thinking, make the definition of 'hate crime' simply any crime of a member of one race against a member of a different race.


As this is far too objective a requirement, and, wouldn't allow Liberals to advance the calumny of a 'racist America'...his proposal has been ignored.


Koch being a good Democrat....he never repeated the suggestion.

 

[William Joyce]

If the attacker is a black teen, and the victim is a white adult, you won't see any thing remotely like this being charged as a hate crime.

Correct.

Won't even be investigated.

 

[IanC]

If the attacker is a black teen, and the victim is a white adult, you won't see any thing remotely like this being charged as a hate crime.

Former NYC Mayor Ed Koch was originally on the right side of the 'hate crime,' or as we conservatives refer to it...'crime'...question, and made this proposal:

Rather than guessing what a perp was thinking, make the definition of 'hate crime' simply any crime of a member of one race against a member of a different race.


As this is far too objective a requirement, and, wouldn't allow Liberals to advance the calumny of a 'racist America'...his proposal has been ignored.


Koch being a good Democrat....he never repeated the suggestion.

thanks for that. I was going to suggest that all cross racial violence carry a minimum manditory sentence. while it wouldnt be exactly fair, it would change the public perception of what you could get away with. I am willing to let some violent criminals get extra harsh punishment for the good of the public and a lessening of racial attacks.

of course the outcome would be that blacks would get charged more under those laws, just like they got charged more with the lynching laws when they were introduced.

 

[catzmeow]

I see no reason for this thug to be allowed to walk the earth.

The death penalty is only pursued in cases in which the victim is killed in a particularly heinous way. This victim did not die.

The death penalty also isn't generally pursued against 15-year-old boys, unless there are aggravating/extenuating circumstances. This case does not reach that threshold. His friends are likely to be charged as accessories to the crime, as well.

I suspect that this individual will spend time in Shuman (the juvenile detention center in Pittsburgh), where he will receive a psych evaluation. I suspect his case will be prosecuted in juvenile court as an aggrevated assault and he is likely to be ordered into a secure facility for a while. The suspect is already on probation. I know his probation supervisor personally, and I strongly suspect that she'll have his butt on ice for quite a long time. They don't play in the juvenile system in Pittsburgh.

However, the death penalty would be ludicrous in this case.

What a stupid thread.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I see no reason for this thug to be allowed to walk the earth.

The death penalty is only pursued in cases in which the victim is killed in a particularly heinous way. This victim did not die.

The death penalty also isn't generally pursued against 15-year-old boys, unless there are aggravating/extenuating circumstances. This case does not reach that threshold. His friends are likely to be charged as accessories to the crime, as well.

I suspect that this individual will spend time in Shuman (the juvenile detention center in Pittsburgh), where he will receive a psych evaluation. I suspect his case will be prosecuted in juvenile court as an aggrevated assault and he is likely to be ordered into a secure facility for a while. The suspect is already on probation. I know his probation supervisor personally, and I strongly suspect that she'll have his butt on ice for quite a long time. They don't play in the juvenile system in Pittsburgh.

However, the death penalty would be ludicrous in this case.

What a stupid thread.

Well...if it's a stupid thread, you must feel right at home.


My question, vis-a-vis, no death penalty unless he killed someone, is what is the thinking behind mitigating the penalty just because he wasn't entirely successful....?

I'm convinced that the attempt was to kill the victim.

Isn't it akin to saying to the perp "care to try again?"

 

[catzmeow]

My question, vis-a-vis, no death penalty unless he killed someone, is what is the thinking behind mitigating the penalty just because he wasn't entirely successful....? I'm convinced that the attempt was to kill the victim.

Prove it. Punching someone in the head is rarely fatal.

As far as your question, you'd have to ask the Pennsylvania legislators who passed the statute enacting the death penalty as a sanction.

Pennsylvania - 18 Aggravating Circumstances - Death Penalty - ProCon.org

It appears that you'd like a wider application of death penalty laws, to expand it to cases of assault and battery committed by teenagers? Have you considered the financial implications of your plan?

 

[Amelia]

Hasn't the death penalty been declared unconstitutional for crimes committed by minors?

 

[Amelia]

I would like him to be locked up for 15 years in a room with Noomi and Julian Assange. And I hope they release the video of Noomi delivering the "kick up the bum" that she thinks the young man's malicious act warrants.

 

[PoliticalChic]

My question, vis-a-vis, no death penalty unless he killed someone, is what is the thinking behind mitigating the penalty just because he wasn't entirely successful....? I'm convinced that the attempt was to kill the victim.

Prove it. Punching someone in the head is rarely fatal.

As far as your question, you'd have to ask the Pennsylvania legislators who passed the statute enacting the death penalty as a sanction.

Pennsylvania - 18 Aggravating Circumstances - Death Penalty - ProCon.org

It appears that you'd like a wider application of death penalty laws, to expand it to cases of assault and battery committed by teenagers? Have you considered the financial implications of your plan?

1. Certainly not very difficult:

"NC3 UPDATE: On July 14, 2012, an autopsy was conducted by the Humboldt County Coroner's Office to determine the cause of death. They determined Morris' death was a result of blunt force trauma, causing a fracture to his skull. This particular fracture was large and traveled from below the left ear over the top of the head to below the right ear.

According to the Coroner's office, the fracture was a crushing injury. However, they say there were no other noticeable signs of trauma to indicate conclusively that Morris was the victim of an assault.

The Eureka Police Department is investigating the matter as a suspicious death at this time. Anyone with information is asked to call the detective's office at (707) 441-4032."
Cause Of Death Determined; Assault Victim Now Suspicious Death | News Channel 3


2. "The mental state of the perpetrator can also push an assault from simple assault to aggravated assault. If he or she acted with the intent to cause severe harm or fear of severe harm, an assault can become aggravated. Depending on the state, reckless behavior can also constitute aggravated assault for example when someone acts with reckless indifference to human life, but without the specific intent to injure any particular person. If a dangerous or deadly weapon is involved, an assault may become aggravated even without any specific intent to injure."
Aggravated Assault - FindLaw


a. "A person is guilty of aggravated assault if he . . . (a)ttempts to
cause serious bodily injury to another, or causes such injury
purposely or knowingly or under circumstances manifesting
extreme indifference to the value of human life recklessly causes
such injury."
http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/criminal/charges/assault2.pdf


3. Let's make clear that the major difference between your position and mine is not the resultant death....as I have just shown that the attack can result in same.....but the priority given to the victim vs. the perpetrator.

 

[del]

My question, vis-a-vis, no death penalty unless he killed someone, is what is the thinking behind mitigating the penalty just because he wasn't entirely successful....? I'm convinced that the attempt was to kill the victim.

Prove it. Punching someone in the head is rarely fatal.

As far as your question, you'd have to ask the Pennsylvania legislators who passed the statute enacting the death penalty as a sanction.

Pennsylvania - 18 Aggravating Circumstances - Death Penalty - ProCon.org

It appears that you'd like a wider application of death penalty laws, to expand it to cases of assault and battery committed by teenagers? Have you considered the financial implications of your plan?

1. Certainly not very difficult:

"NC3 UPDATE: On July 14, 2012, an autopsy was conducted by the Humboldt County Coroner's Office to determine the cause of death. They determined Morris' death was a result of blunt force trauma, causing a fracture to his skull. This particular fracture was large and traveled from below the left ear over the top of the head to below the right ear.

According to the Coroner's office, the fracture was a crushing injury. However, they say there were no other noticeable signs of trauma to indicate conclusively that Morris was the victim of an assault.

The Eureka Police Department is investigating the matter as a suspicious death at this time. Anyone with information is asked to call the detective's office at (707) 441-4032."
Cause Of Death Determined; Assault Victim Now Suspicious Death | News Channel 3


2. "The mental state of the perpetrator can also push an assault from simple assault to aggravated assault. If he or she acted with the intent to cause severe harm or fear of severe harm, an assault can become aggravated. Depending on the state, reckless behavior can also constitute aggravated assault for example when someone acts with reckless indifference to human life, but without the specific intent to injure any particular person. If a dangerous or deadly weapon is involved, an assault may become aggravated even without any specific intent to injure."
Aggravated Assault - FindLaw


a. "A person is guilty of aggravated assault if he . . . (a)ttempts to
cause serious bodily injury to another, or causes such injury
purposely or knowingly or under circumstances manifesting
extreme indifference to the value of human life recklessly causes
such injury."
http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/criminal/charges/assault2.pdf


3. Let's make clear that the major difference between your position and mine is not the resultant death....as I have just shown that the attack can result in same.....but the priority given to the victim vs. the perpetrator.

your inability to intelligently address any of the points made in the previous posts is noted.



the chunky monkey gets more stupid by the paste, er, post

 

[catzmeow]

1. Certainly not very difficult:

Level of difficulty =/= intent to murder.

2. "The mental state of the perpetrator can also push an assault from simple assault to aggravated assault. If he or she acted with the intent to cause severe harm or fear of severe harm, an assault can become aggravated. Depending on the state, reckless behavior can also constitute aggravated assault for example when someone acts with reckless indifference to human life, but without the specific intent to injure any particular person.

Which is why I stated that he is likely to be charged with aggravated assault. In this case, reckless disregard and intent to do harm.

However, intent to punch someone in the ear is still not intent to murder, no many how many articles you link. Even if he intended to kill the guy, but didn't, the most a prosecutor could charge him with would be agg assault and possibly, conspiracy to commit murder (if he conspired with others).

Derp.

Let's make clear that the major difference between your position and mine is not the resultant death....as I have just shown that the attack can result in same.....but the priority given to the victim vs. the perpetrator.

Actually, that's not the major difference between your position and mine. Your position is somewhere on Uranus, and mine is a pragmatic position informed by working with the criminal justice system for the past 20 years...on EARTH.

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. Certainly not very difficult:

Level of difficulty =/= intent to murder.

2. "The mental state of the perpetrator can also push an assault from simple assault to aggravated assault. If he or she acted with the intent to cause severe harm or fear of severe harm, an assault can become aggravated. Depending on the state, reckless behavior can also constitute aggravated assault for example when someone acts with reckless indifference to human life, but without the specific intent to injure any particular person.

Which is why I stated that he is likely to be charged with aggravated assault. In this case, reckless disregard and intent to do harm.

However, intent to punch someone in the ear is still not intent to murder, no many how many articles you link. Even if he intended to kill the guy, but didn't, the most a prosecutor could charge him with would be agg assault and possibly, conspiracy to commit murder (if he conspired with others).

Derp.

Let's make clear that the major difference between your position and mine is not the resultant death....as I have just shown that the attack can result in same.....but the priority given to the victim vs. the perpetrator.

Actually, that's not the major difference between your position and mine. Your position is somewhere on Uranus, and mine is a pragmatic position informed by working with the criminal justice system for the past 20 years...on EARTH.

Evidently you don't understand the meaning of 'pragmatic.'

prag·mat·ic/pragˈmatik/
Adjective:
Dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical considerations.



"Even if he intended to kill the guy, but didn't, the most a prosecutor could charge him..."

I certainly agree that the law, the game as it is played today, would certainly behave as you predict.

My question was reality-based as opposed to jurisprudence based.
I viewed the video....and feel that murder was the intent.
The fact that the victim landed with his head striking the curb adds evidence.
The thugs background, 'troubled youth,' even more so.

And, my point is...is anyone safe with this thug walking the earth?
I can't see him being given a second shot at an innocent human being.

Given the opportunity....if I was on a jury, and capital punishment offered....I'd vote yes.



The pragmatic solution is to see that this beast never has the opportunity to behave as he has proven his propensity.
And there is only one way to see to that.

 

[del]

^
continuing to fail

 

[George Costanza]

My question was reality-based as opposed to jurisprudence based.

I viewed the video....and feel that murder was the intent.
The fact that the victim landed with his head striking the curb adds evidence.
The thugs background, 'troubled youth,' even more so.

And, my point is...is anyone safe with this thug walking the earth?
I can't see him being given a second shot at an innocent human being.

Given the opportunity....if I was on a jury, and capital punishment offered....I'd vote yes.

The pragmatic solution is to see that this beast never has the opportunity to behave as he has proven his propensity.
And there is only one way to see to that.

Oh, I see - "reality basted" as opposed to "jurisprudence based." Of course. That clears EVERYTHING up.

Listen, you nutty fruit fly - no one disagrees that the guy in this case is an Adam Henry and if this is his usual MO, he should be removed from society for a long time so as not to be a danger to others. But death is not an appropriate penalty for attempted murder, even if that's what this case rises to. We have these things called prisons - you have heard of them? They are designed to keep people away from society. That's what should happen in a case like this. Execution is not "the only way" to remove someone from society.

There are lots of crimes which are bad and lots of criminals who commit those crimes who should be removed from society. Should we execute all of them? That would sure solve the problem, wouldn't it?

I don't know why I take the time to even respond to this kind of drivel. I'm going to have to exercise a little more discipline . . .

 

[PoliticalChic]

My question was reality-based as opposed to jurisprudence based.

I viewed the video....and feel that murder was the intent.
The fact that the victim landed with his head striking the curb adds evidence.
The thugs background, 'troubled youth,' even more so.

And, my point is...is anyone safe with this thug walking the earth?
I can't see him being given a second shot at an innocent human being.

Given the opportunity....if I was on a jury, and capital punishment offered....I'd vote yes.

The pragmatic solution is to see that this beast never has the opportunity to behave as he has proven his propensity.
And there is only one way to see to that.

Oh, I see - "reality basted" as opposed to "jurisprudence based." Of course. That clears EVERYTHING up.

Listen, you nutty fruit fly - no one disagrees that the guy in this case is an Adam Henry and if this is his usual MO, he should be removed from society for a long time so as not to be a danger to others. But death is not an appropriate penalty for attempted murder, even if that's what this case rises to. We have these things called prisons - you have heard of them? They are designed to keep people away from society. That's what should happen in a case like this. Execution is not "the only way" to remove someone from society.

There are lots of crimes which are bad and lots of criminals who commit those crimes who should be removed from society. Should we execute all of them? That would sure solve the problem, wouldn't it?

I don't know why I take the time to even respond to this kind of drivel. I'm going to have to exercise a little more discipline . . .

1. "They are designed to keep people away from society."
How about this paragon.....how long?


2. "There are lots of crimes which are bad and lots of criminals who commit those crimes who should be removed from society. Should we execute all of them?"
Currently, I've red-flagged this one.

If I have time, I'll go through your list, and tell you which other ones.....


3. In the meanwhile....are you ready to set up your spare room for this one?
No?

Why not?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT SUCKER PUNCHES TEACHER KNOCKING HIM UNCONSCIOUS! - YouTube




1. "PITTSBURGH (AP) -- A teenager who sucker punched a schoolteacher in a downtown alley - an attack caught on surveillance video - apparently picked the victim at random, police and school officials said.

2. The attack happened last Thursday at about 3:30 p.m. The surveillance video, which Pittsburgh police used to make an arrest Tuesday,...

3. ....the 15-year-old suspect walking with several other youths past 50-year-old James Addlespurger.




4. Addlespurger, who teaches English at an arts high school, was walking in the other direction and did not appear to interact with the youths in any way.

5. The suspect suddenly approached Addlespurger and punched him in the head. The teacher fell hard onto a curb as the teen and the others continued walking.

6. ...there's something very terrifying about it," said Pittsburgh Councilman R. Daniel Lavelle, whose district includes downtown. "In the video it appears


he was laughing afterwards,


which is very disturbing."

7. ... taken to a juvenile detention center on a charge of simple assault but was not identified ...




8. City schools spokeswoman Ebony Pugh said the school system can't take any formal action against the suspect because the attack happened off school grounds and after the school day had ended.


9. The suspect attends a school for troubled youths ... there's no evidence the suspect, or his friends, knew Addlespurger or exchanged words with him."
News from The Associated Press




I see no reason for this thug to be allowed to walk the earth.

The attacker probably was angry that teachers get paid so much money and get so many luxurious job perks all because they formed a commie union to shake down the local govenrment to milk the taxpayers for all they can without actually doing any teaching at all. I mean - don't public school teachers just sit on their ass, do nothing, get paid 6 figure salaries and have better healthcare than Donald Trump? Why wouldn't this kid be angry at him?

Wouldn't you feel like punching someone who was stealing money from the taxpayer?

 

[PoliticalChic]

HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT SUCKER PUNCHES TEACHER KNOCKING HIM UNCONSCIOUS! - YouTube




1. "PITTSBURGH (AP) -- A teenager who sucker punched a schoolteacher in a downtown alley - an attack caught on surveillance video - apparently picked the victim at random, police and school officials said.

2. The attack happened last Thursday at about 3:30 p.m. The surveillance video, which Pittsburgh police used to make an arrest Tuesday,...

3. ....the 15-year-old suspect walking with several other youths past 50-year-old James Addlespurger.




4. Addlespurger, who teaches English at an arts high school, was walking in the other direction and did not appear to interact with the youths in any way.

5. The suspect suddenly approached Addlespurger and punched him in the head. The teacher fell hard onto a curb as the teen and the others continued walking.

6. ...there's something very terrifying about it," said Pittsburgh Councilman R. Daniel Lavelle, whose district includes downtown. "In the video it appears


he was laughing afterwards,


which is very disturbing."

7. ... taken to a juvenile detention center on a charge of simple assault but was not identified ...




8. City schools spokeswoman Ebony Pugh said the school system can't take any formal action against the suspect because the attack happened off school grounds and after the school day had ended.


9. The suspect attends a school for troubled youths ... there's no evidence the suspect, or his friends, knew Addlespurger or exchanged words with him."
News from The Associated Press




I see no reason for this thug to be allowed to walk the earth.

The attacker probably was angry that teachers get paid so much money and get so many luxurious job perks all because they formed a commie union to shake down the local govenrment to milk the taxpayers for all they can without actually doing any teaching at all. I mean - don't public school teachers just sit on their ass, do nothing, get paid 6 figure salaries and have better healthcare than Donald Trump? Why wouldn't this kid be angry at him?

Wouldn't you feel like punching someone who was stealing money from the taxpayer?

1. There is a certain coterie of posters who are so lacking in brain matter that they don't bother to read the post to which they are, ostensibly, responding.

No doubt, you are a card-carrying member.....


a. "The attacker probably was angry that teachers...Why wouldn't this kid be angry at him?"
Really? And how did you arrive at that conclusion.....?



2. Did the attacker know the victim?
Did the attacker even know that he was a teacher?


The answer to both questions is "No."


3. Bet you can barely scratch your name in the sand with a stick.
If you had the ability to absorb OP, the following would have obviated your jejune comments.


This, from the OP, which you either didn't read or didn't understand:

"...picked the victim at random, police and school officials said.
The suspect attends a school for troubled youths ... there's no evidence the suspect, or his friends, knew Addlespurger or exchanged words with him."
News from The Associated Press


4. He didn't go to the victim's school, didn't know the victim,....


5. Do you understand the meaning of the word "random"?


I’d love to explain it to you, but I don’t have any crayons.
Ahah!

I see the problem......

...the article was written on an 8th grade reading level!



Do you use breadcrumbs to find your way back to the refrigerator box you call home?

 

[catzmeow]

My question was reality-based as opposed to jurisprudence based.
I viewed the video....and feel that murder was the intent.
The fact that the victim landed with his head striking the curb adds evidence.
The thugs background, 'troubled youth,' even more so.

So, you read minds now?

And, my point is...is anyone safe with this thug walking the earth?
I can't see him being given a second shot at an innocent human being.

What are your credentials to make this determination? You've watched a video on the internet and decided?

Given the opportunity....if I was on a jury, and capital punishment offered....I'd vote yes.

The death penalty wouldn't be on the table, for the reasons I've provided above. It's not legal to execute a 15 year old for this offense.

I'm surprised they allow internet access in your facility.