Why isn't the GOP talking about cutting taxes right now?

[DavidS]

Cut spending and cut taxes. I can only dream.

If you decrease revenue and you decrease spending, you're not going to make a profit. If people really care about the deficit, they should know we should increase taxes and decrease spending. That will help the debt tremendously.

It seems like a pretty easy formula to me.

It's simple first grade math. If we make $10 but spend $13, we're $3 in the hole. If you cut taxes and decrease income and make $7 but also decrease spending to $10, you're still $3 in the hole. However, if you increase income to $11 and you decrease spending to $10, you make $1 profit and you're out of debt.

 

[DavidS]

If you decrease revenue and you decrease spending, you're not going to make a profit. If people really care about the deficit, they should know we should increase taxes and decrease spending. That will help the debt tremendously.

It seems like a pretty easy formula to me.

It's simple first grade math. If we make $10 but spend $13, we're $3 in the hole. If you cut taxes and decrease income and make $7 but also decrease spending to $10, you're still $3 in the hole. However, if you increase income to $11 and you decrease spending to $10, you make $1 profit and you're out of debt.

The simple notion that revenue will increase because rich people will spend more money on the economy if they had 3% less in taxes to pay is a joke. Bush did that. Those are our current tax levels right now. It's not working. Why repeat something that doesn't work?

 

[Zander]

This is really not the time for Partisan bickering and childish zings, we're far past that point. There are no good choices. The time for good choices was years ago. I was and still am a fan of the Bush tax cuts. They were not the problem; a few years after the cuts, tax revenues were up considerably. The problem was a reckless Congress (surprise! they were republicans!) which allowed spending to rise even more! And you can’t just blame it on the wars. That contributed, but it was not even close to the lion’s share. If we had held the line on spending, we would have paid off the entire debt and been in good shape when the crisis hit in 2008.

So now we have decisions to make; Either we willingly cut the deficit by a far more significant amount than anyone is discussing, or we hit the wall at some point and become Greece. We have painted ourselves into the corner with difficult and disastrous choices. We have condemned ourselves to a slow-growth, Muddle Through Economy for another 5-6 years, at best, as we are forced to right-size government. If we raise taxes to partially solve the problem, we have to recognize that higher taxes will result in slower private growth. That’s just the rules. There are no easy buttons to push.

So, we must cut spending and the deficit, and yes, it is going to slow the economy for a period of time.

 

[candycorn]

This is really not the time for Partisan bickering and childish zings, we're far past that point. There are no good choices. The time for good choices was years ago. I was and still am a fan of the Bush tax cuts. They were not the problem; a few years after the cuts, tax revenues were up considerably. The problem was a reckless Congress (surprise! they were republicans!) which allowed spending to rise even more! And you can’t just blame it on the wars. That contributed, but it was not even close to the lion’s share. If we had held the line on spending, we would have paid off the entire debt and been in good shape when the crisis hit in 2008.

So now we have decisions to make; Either we willingly cut the deficit by a far more significant amount than anyone is discussing, or we hit the wall at some point and become Greece. We have painted ourselves into the corner with difficult and disastrous choices. We have condemned ourselves to a slow-growth, Muddle Through Economy for another 5-6 years, at best, as we are forced to right-size government. If we raise taxes to partially solve the problem, we have to recognize that higher taxes will result in slower private growth. That’s just the rules. There are no easy buttons to push.

So, we must cut spending and the deficit, and yes, it is going to slow the economy for a period of time.

Why do you think that is; the tax cuts--which are still in effect along with billions in stimulus dollars sitting in banks across the nations--aren't causing runaway private growth now, are they?

 

[Zander]

This is really not the time for Partisan bickering and childish zings, we're far past that point. There are no good choices. The time for good choices was years ago. I was and still am a fan of the Bush tax cuts. They were not the problem; a few years after the cuts, tax revenues were up considerably. The problem was a reckless Congress (surprise! they were republicans!) which allowed spending to rise even more! And you can’t just blame it on the wars. That contributed, but it was not even close to the lion’s share. If we had held the line on spending, we would have paid off the entire debt and been in good shape when the crisis hit in 2008.

So now we have decisions to make; Either we willingly cut the deficit by a far more significant amount than anyone is discussing, or we hit the wall at some point and become Greece. We have painted ourselves into the corner with difficult and disastrous choices. We have condemned ourselves to a slow-growth, Muddle Through Economy for another 5-6 years, at best, as we are forced to right-size government. If we raise taxes to partially solve the problem, we have to recognize that higher taxes will result in slower private growth. That’s just the rules. There are no easy buttons to push.

So, we must cut spending and the deficit, and yes, it is going to slow the economy for a period of time.

Why do you think that is; the tax cuts--which are still in effect along with billions in stimulus dollars sitting in banks across the nations--aren't causing runaway private growth now, are they?

You are right- we are not seeing massive private growth. The reason is because we are at the end of a debt supercycle. We have so much de-leveraging to do that no amount of tax cuts or stimulus will ameliorate the pain. Real estate is worth 1/2 of what it was 4 years ago. That takes a long time to recover from.

There are only two ways to grow an economy. Just two. You can increase the working-age population or you can increase productivity. That’s it. No secret sauce. The key is for us to figure out how to increase productivity.

 

[DavidS]

This is really not the time for Partisan bickering and childish zings, we're far past that point. There are no good choices. The time for good choices was years ago. I was and still am a fan of the Bush tax cuts. They were not the problem; a few years after the cuts, tax revenues were up considerably. The problem was a reckless Congress (surprise! they were republicans!) which allowed spending to rise even more! And you can’t just blame it on the wars. That contributed, but it was not even close to the lion’s share. If we had held the line on spending, we would have paid off the entire debt and been in good shape when the crisis hit in 2008.

So now we have decisions to make; Either we willingly cut the deficit by a far more significant amount than anyone is discussing, or we hit the wall at some point and become Greece. We have painted ourselves into the corner with difficult and disastrous choices. We have condemned ourselves to a slow-growth, Muddle Through Economy for another 5-6 years, at best, as we are forced to right-size government. If we raise taxes to partially solve the problem, we have to recognize that higher taxes will result in slower private growth. That’s just the rules. There are no easy buttons to push.

So, we must cut spending and the deficit, and yes, it is going to slow the economy for a period of time.

It depends on how high the taxes are. If the taxes are raised to 90%, yes, absolutely that'll slow the economy to a halt. If the taxes are raised up to 5%, on anyone who earns $250,000 ***NET*** per year (net = final number after all deductions and before taxes). 5% on $250,000. That's $12,500. It's nothing to them.

 

[DavidS]

This is really not the time for Partisan bickering and childish zings, we're far past that point. There are no good choices. The time for good choices was years ago. I was and still am a fan of the Bush tax cuts. They were not the problem; a few years after the cuts, tax revenues were up considerably. The problem was a reckless Congress (surprise! they were republicans!) which allowed spending to rise even more! And you can’t just blame it on the wars. That contributed, but it was not even close to the lion’s share. If we had held the line on spending, we would have paid off the entire debt and been in good shape when the crisis hit in 2008.

So now we have decisions to make; Either we willingly cut the deficit by a far more significant amount than anyone is discussing, or we hit the wall at some point and become Greece. We have painted ourselves into the corner with difficult and disastrous choices. We have condemned ourselves to a slow-growth, Muddle Through Economy for another 5-6 years, at best, as we are forced to right-size government. If we raise taxes to partially solve the problem, we have to recognize that higher taxes will result in slower private growth. That’s just the rules. There are no easy buttons to push.

So, we must cut spending and the deficit, and yes, it is going to slow the economy for a period of time.

Why do you think that is; the tax cuts--which are still in effect along with billions in stimulus dollars sitting in banks across the nations--aren't causing runaway private growth now, are they?

You are right- we are not seeing massive private growth. The reason is because we are at the end of a debt supercycle. We have so much de-leveraging to do that no amount of tax cuts or stimulus will ameliorate the pain. Real estate is worth 1/2 of what it was 4 years ago. That takes a long time to recover from.

There are only two ways to grow an economy. Just two. You can increase the working-age population or you can increase productivity. That’s it. No secret sauce. The key is for us to figure out how to increase productivity.

Sorry, I don't buy for a second that our economy is slow because of the national debt. The national debt has absolutely zero impact on our economy whatsoever.

 

[hortysir]

Actually that suggestion *is* being made.

In Demo-speak "spending cuts" are defined as not increasing spending as much as last year.
By that logic, 'not raising taxes' would be defined as a tax cut, wouldn't it???
















Reaching? or just too much wine?

 

[candycorn]

This is really not the time for Partisan bickering and childish zings, we're far past that point. There are no good choices. The time for good choices was years ago. I was and still am a fan of the Bush tax cuts. They were not the problem; a few years after the cuts, tax revenues were up considerably. The problem was a reckless Congress (surprise! they were republicans!) which allowed spending to rise even more! And you can’t just blame it on the wars. That contributed, but it was not even close to the lion’s share. If we had held the line on spending, we would have paid off the entire debt and been in good shape when the crisis hit in 2008.

So now we have decisions to make; Either we willingly cut the deficit by a far more significant amount than anyone is discussing, or we hit the wall at some point and become Greece. We have painted ourselves into the corner with difficult and disastrous choices. We have condemned ourselves to a slow-growth, Muddle Through Economy for another 5-6 years, at best, as we are forced to right-size government. If we raise taxes to partially solve the problem, we have to recognize that higher taxes will result in slower private growth. That’s just the rules. There are no easy buttons to push.

So, we must cut spending and the deficit, and yes, it is going to slow the economy for a period of time.

Why do you think that is; the tax cuts--which are still in effect along with billions in stimulus dollars sitting in banks across the nations--aren't causing runaway private growth now, are they?

You are right- we are not seeing massive private growth. The reason is because we are at the end of a debt supercycle. We have so much de-leveraging to do that no amount of tax cuts or stimulus will ameliorate the pain. Real estate is worth 1/2 of what it was 4 years ago. That takes a long time to recover from.

There are only two ways to grow an economy. Just two. You can increase the working-age population or you can increase productivity. That’s it. No secret sauce. The key is for us to figure out how to increase productivity.

Increase of the working age population?

I don't see how that bumps up the economy but you're the expert.

I would imagine that creating new industries would be one way to increase the number of people working--productivity--but I guess you were including that.

So tax cuts do nothing to grow the economy? Is that what you're saying?

 

[DavidS]

Why do you think that is; the tax cuts--which are still in effect along with billions in stimulus dollars sitting in banks across the nations--aren't causing runaway private growth now, are they?

You are right- we are not seeing massive private growth. The reason is because we are at the end of a debt supercycle. We have so much de-leveraging to do that no amount of tax cuts or stimulus will ameliorate the pain. Real estate is worth 1/2 of what it was 4 years ago. That takes a long time to recover from.

There are only two ways to grow an economy. Just two. You can increase the working-age population or you can increase productivity. That’s it. No secret sauce. The key is for us to figure out how to increase productivity.

Increase of the working age population?

I don't see how that bumps up the economy but you're the expert.

I would imagine that creating new industries would be one way to increase the number of people working--productivity--but I guess you were including that.

So tax cuts do nothing to grow the economy? Is that what you're saying?

Creating new industries just leads to a bubble. When was the last time our economy was good without relying on a bubble?

 

[Zander]

This is really not the time for Partisan bickering and childish zings, we're far past that point. There are no good choices. The time for good choices was years ago. I was and still am a fan of the Bush tax cuts. They were not the problem; a few years after the cuts, tax revenues were up considerably. The problem was a reckless Congress (surprise! they were republicans!) which allowed spending to rise even more! And you can’t just blame it on the wars. That contributed, but it was not even close to the lion’s share. If we had held the line on spending, we would have paid off the entire debt and been in good shape when the crisis hit in 2008.

So now we have decisions to make; Either we willingly cut the deficit by a far more significant amount than anyone is discussing, or we hit the wall at some point and become Greece. We have painted ourselves into the corner with difficult and disastrous choices. We have condemned ourselves to a slow-growth, Muddle Through Economy for another 5-6 years, at best, as we are forced to right-size government. If we raise taxes to partially solve the problem, we have to recognize that higher taxes will result in slower private growth. That’s just the rules. There are no easy buttons to push.

So, we must cut spending and the deficit, and yes, it is going to slow the economy for a period of time.

It depends on how high the taxes are. If the taxes are raised to 90%, yes, absolutely that'll slow the economy to a halt. If the taxes are raised up to 5%, on anyone who earns $250,000 ***NET*** per year (net = final number after all deductions and before taxes). 5% on $250,000. That's $12,500. It's nothing to them.

It sounds good, just an additional 5% tax! Who could object? But the fact is higher taxes stifle job creation, always.

Here is a very helpful equation: GDP = C + I + G + net exports

The I in the equation is investments. That is what produces the tools and businesses that make “stuff” and buy and sell services. Increasing government spending, G, does not increase productivity. It transfers taxes taken from one sector of the economy and to another, with a cost of transfer, of course. While the people who get the transfer payments and services certainly feel better off, those who pay taxes are left with less to invest in private businesses that actually increase productivity. Over the last two decades, the net new jobs in the US have come from business start-ups. Not large businesses (they are a net drag) and not even small businesses. Understand, some of those start-ups became Google and Apple, etc.; but many just become good small businesses, hiring 5-10-50-100 people. But the cumulative effect is growth in productivity and the economy.

If you take an additional $12,500 in taxes from a small business that nets $250K a year- you take that money away from investment and that means fewer jobs.

 

[candycorn]

Actually that suggestion *is* being made.

In Demo-speak "spending cuts" are defined as not increasing spending as much as last year.
By that logic, 'not raising taxes' would be defined as a tax cut, wouldn't it???
















Reaching? or just too much wine?

Maybe...I see where you're going so maybe I'm just as drunk.

But seriously, if the slashing of taxes was such a silver bullet, wouldn't McConnell, Bohener, Limbaugh, Ryan, et. al. be screaming it right now?

 

[candycorn]

You are right- we are not seeing massive private growth. The reason is because we are at the end of a debt supercycle. We have so much de-leveraging to do that no amount of tax cuts or stimulus will ameliorate the pain. Real estate is worth 1/2 of what it was 4 years ago. That takes a long time to recover from.

There are only two ways to grow an economy. Just two. You can increase the working-age population or you can increase productivity. That’s it. No secret sauce. The key is for us to figure out how to increase productivity.

Increase of the working age population?

I don't see how that bumps up the economy but you're the expert.

I would imagine that creating new industries would be one way to increase the number of people working--productivity--but I guess you were including that.

So tax cuts do nothing to grow the economy? Is that what you're saying?

Creating new industries just leads to a bubble. When was the last time our economy was good without relying on a bubble?

I don't think that is necessarily the case. The guys making airbags for cars...are they in a bubble? The guys making wind turbines; that doesn't seem like a bubble to me. Twenty years ago, neither existed...did they not?

I think that the real bubble folks are the ones creating new devices that do nothing. My condo recently forced me to start buying liability insurance. So if the fire place I don't have burns the building down or melts the waterbed I don't have, the damage caused to the other floors of the condo are taken care of. The price of the policy? A mere $25,000. The first ember of a fire would do more damage than that yet I'm just having to fork over another $22.33 a month for this "security" and peace of mind. Bull-to-the-Shit. The investors in the insurance agency are living in a bubble because eventually these worthless policies will be done away with. But new industries that make stuff that people need are not bubbles in my view.

 

[WillowTree]

If it will fix everything...why not do it now?

Hey Moron! What do you think Cut, Cap and Balance is all about?


Educate yourself and pay attention to the House of Representatives this week.

 

[candycorn]

If it will fix everything...why not do it now?

Hey Moron! What do you think Cut, Cap and Balance is all about?


Educate yourself and pay attention to the House of Representatives this week.

Can you give me a primer on it; getting ready for the quarterly aduits and I don't think CSPAN is part of the review pack.

 

[WillowTree]

If it will fix everything...why not do it now?

Hey Moron! What do you think Cut, Cap and Balance is all about?


Educate yourself and pay attention to the House of Representatives this week.

Can you give me a primer on it; getting ready for the quarterly aduits and I don't think CSPAN is part of the review pack.

google cut cap and balance. it's easy

 

[candycorn]

Hey Moron! What do you think Cut, Cap and Balance is all about?


Educate yourself and pay attention to the House of Representatives this week.

Can you give me a primer on it; getting ready for the quarterly aduits and I don't think CSPAN is part of the review pack.

google cut cap and balance. it's easy

Okay...thanks.

 

[candycorn]

If it will fix everything...why not do it now?

Hey Moron! What do you think Cut, Cap and Balance is all about?


Educate yourself and pay attention to the House of Representatives this week.

Any reason they haven't been screaming it from the roof tops for months?

 

[candycorn]

Hey Moron! What do you think Cut, Cap and Balance is all about?


Educate yourself and pay attention to the House of Representatives this week.

Can you give me a primer on it; getting ready for the quarterly aduits and I don't think CSPAN is part of the review pack.

google cut cap and balance. it's easy

A constitutional amendment to balance the budget. I'd have to see the language but I like the idea.

The bill would cut fiscal year 2012 spending by $111 billion, cap future spending at 18 percent of GDP, and propose a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution.

I don't see the screaming for tax cuts I was asking about.

 

[hortysir]

Actually that suggestion *is* being made.

In Demo-speak "spending cuts" are defined as not increasing spending as much as last year.
By that logic, 'not raising taxes' would be defined as a tax cut, wouldn't it???
















Reaching? or just too much wine?

Maybe...I see where you're going so maybe I'm just as drunk.

But seriously, if the slashing of taxes was such a silver bullet, wouldn't McConnell, Bohener, Limbaugh, Ryan, et. al. be screaming it right now?

I think tax cuts aren't being mentioned because most sane people realize revenue stream (without having to increase it substantially) and cutting unnecessary spending........