Why Is There Controversy Over Confederate Monuments?

[danielpalos]

Article 1, Section 9. The great debate between Calhoun and Webster. The Compromise of 1850. Bleeding Kansas. Dred Scott. The caning of Charles Sumner. Harpers Ferry.

Any of this shit ring a bell?

The fact remains, there was a lot more to the Civil War than just slavery. To think otherwise is delusional

Nope. It was about nothing more than slavery. To say otherwise is to be completely and willfully ignorant of our nation's history.

The racist Democrats' () reason for leaving the Union was over slavery. They said so themselves!

Any other complaints did not rise to the level of secession. Only slavery did.

So it had nothing to do with taxes and states rights...

Yes, it did. The southern States had recourse to eminent domain; but did not pursue that option.

 

[danielpalos]

hypocrisy defines the progressives

Congress should have "gotten serious" about ending slavery after 1808.

 

[danielpalos]

Article 1, Section 9. The great debate between Calhoun and Webster. The Compromise of 1850. Bleeding Kansas. Dred Scott. The caning of Charles Sumner. Harpers Ferry.

Any of this shit ring a bell?

The fact remains, there was a lot more to the Civil War than just slavery. To think otherwise is delusional

Nope. It was about nothing more than slavery. To say otherwise is to be completely and willfully ignorant of our nation's history.

The racist Democrats' () reason for leaving the Union was over slavery. They said so themselves!

Any other complaints did not rise to the level of secession. Only slavery did.

So it had nothing to do with taxes and states rights...

Exactly. "States rights" was the smokescreen for slavery. Just like "states rights" were the smokescreen for Jim Crow laws.

Did you read the declarations of secession? Of course you didn't.

Remember I told you slavery is mentioned 83 times?

Out of all those declarations, taxes are mentioned once. And guess what it is about:

The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.

Your laughter emoticon is the laughter of a willfully stupid creduloid.

So keep going, you ignorant fool. This is fun.

When applied to the Southern Cause, it is merely about their lost clue and their lost Cause.

Congress should have made provisions for abolishing slavery after 1808.

 

[danielpalos]

Progressives want to overlook their past sins/even forget them, the fact remains it was not just about slavery although that was the cause that took up the headlines. To say taxes and states rights had nothing to do with the Civil War is selective at best. Also at the same time Indian tribes all over the Americas had countless slaves... my ancestors had centuries of slave ownership to call their own… The Sioux Indian tribes. Fact

Nobody said it was ONLY about slavery. It was about preserving the union as the number one reason. But in the process of doing that, the slavery question had to be addressed.

Yes, but the way they did it was all wrong, the suspending habeas corpus was absolutely unnecessary... The act showed who the real Lincoln was.. a delusional control freak.
Like I said the most honorable leader involved in the Civil War was Robert E Lee no one was even close…

Why do you believe that?

 

[danielpalos]

Not every southerner had slaves in fact most really did not, they could not afford them. But only a fool would think that a southerner could not separate slavery from states rights.

Actually that was a lot like the 'death tax' which taxed estates of $3.5 million or more. Repeal of it was from people living in trailer parks, who would never be subject to it unless they won the lottery. Yet like the southeners who couldn't afford slaves, the rich convinced them to fight the fight to make the rich, even richer.

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus what did that prove? Basically he was a delusional control freak… He would do anything to force his government on people that did not agree with him.

He paid the ultimate price, for that.

 

[danielpalos]

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus what did that prove? Basically he was a delusional control freak… He would do anything to force his government on people that did not agree with him.

Lincoln also imposed an income tax. The tax was unconstitutional, suspending habeas corpus in time of war was not.

The power to Tax is clearly delegated to our federal Congress, in Article 1, Section 8.

 

[Rustic]

Progressives want to overlook their past sins/even forget them, the fact remains it was not just about slavery although that was the cause that took up the headlines. To say taxes and states rights had nothing to do with the Civil War is selective at best. Also at the same time Indian tribes all over the Americas had countless slaves... my ancestors had centuries of slave ownership to call their own… The Sioux Indian tribes. Fact

Nobody said it was ONLY about slavery. It was about preserving the union as the number one reason. But in the process of doing that, the slavery question had to be addressed.

Yes, but the way they did it was all wrong, the suspending habeas corpus was absolutely unnecessary... The act showed who the real Lincoln was.. a delusional control freak.
Like I said the most honorable leader involved in the Civil War was Robert E Lee no one was even close…

Why do you believe that?

"Robert E. Lee was a great man who campaigned tirelessly against slavery and tried to get it abolished several times before the war. He only fought for the south because he supported the right of secession." • r/badhistory

 

[danielpalos]

Nice glossy PC coating over history. So why didn't Lincoln emancipate all of the slaves on January 1st, 1863? If the war was about slavery, then why weren't all the slaves freed until well after the war was over?

The war, caused by secession in order to ensure Southern slavery, became a struggle to keep states in the Union. And, eventually, slavery became the weapon Lincoln used against the South. He killed the reason for them to secede. He took step by step. He succeeded, and it would have been better for the southern states to not have seceded (heh).

The south overplayed their hand and lost bigly

Lincoln was not going to abolish slavery. He was probably going to be an obscure, one term President. He may have passed some legislation limiting the expansion of slavery, but couldn't have abolished it

By seceding and provoking a war, the South ended up losing their slaves within five years....it would have taken 20-30 years otherwise

The election of Lincoln set off a panic throughout the south.....Lincoln is going to take our slaves away, we had better secede to ensure we can keep them forever

Slavery was going to eventually end even in a Confederate America. What they did was accelerate the process and kill 600,000 Americans. The men who caused that should not be honored

The best and the most honorable leader in the Civil War was General Lee... fact
Saying the Civil War was "ALL'' And/or "just" about slavery is just basically progressive politically correct elementary history…

Any way you define it....the war was about slavery
The Confederacy was formed to preserve the institution of slavery forever

Lee had a choice to make....Stand for human dignity or stand for his state
He chose wrong

some on the left claim, it was about the War of Southern Aggression, antagonistic toward our more perfect Union.

 

[danielpalos]

New Orleans has begun taking down Confederate monuments, moving them from public spaces to museums. Why is this controversial?

First, let's be honest: Taking up arms against the lawfully-elected government of the United States is treason. Sure, one man's treason is another man's freedom fighter. But IIRC (and please post links if I'm wrong so I can admit that clearly), the South started the Civil War because they believed Lincoln would dismantle slavery. Not because he said he would, because he didn't, but because they believed he would.

This isn't the case of a downtrodden, abused people rising up against a cruel, despotic government. IMO, that makes rebellion morally justified. But this is a case of people rising up against a democratic republic because they were worried the gov't would take away their slaves.

And I get that some folks want to change the Civil War into a noble struggle for state's rights. But let's remember two facts: 1) This is about the right to own black people as slaves, and 2) the feds hadn't trampled on that right when the South started war.

Now, I appreciate that the US Civil War is part of our history. We shouldn't ignore it or whitewash it. And there's nothing wrong with loving your state or respecting your ancestors. But why do some people want to keep statues and monuments dedicated to people who fought and killed US citizens? Would it be okay if a Muslim-American community built a statue of Nidal Hasan (the guy who killed 13 people at Fort Hood) and claim it's part of their heritage?

Seriously, why is removing these monuments to put into a museum so controversial?

You know the answer.

The Civil War wasn't even a rebellion. I was certain people in Southern States who decided they would try and take over that part of the United States.

Not sure why it needs any celebration.

The Confederacy is also symbolic of human slavery, which is bad.

States rights is what it was fought over.

A states right to allow slavery

Not after 1808; just lousy, federal management.

 

[danielpalos]

Nope. It was about nothing more than slavery. To say otherwise is to be completely and willfully ignorant of our nation's history.

The racist Democrats' () reason for leaving the Union was over slavery. They said so themselves!

Any other complaints did not rise to the level of secession. Only slavery did.

So it had nothing to do with taxes and states rights...

Exactly. "States rights" was the smokescreen for slavery. Just like "states rights" were the smokescreen for Jim Crow laws.

Did you read the declarations of secession? Of course you didn't.

Out of all those declarations, taxes are mentioned once. And guess what it is about:

The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.

Your laughter emoticon is the laughter of a willfully stupid creduloid.

So keep going, you ignorant fool. This is fun.

Not every southerner had slaves in fact most really did not, they could not afford them. But only a fool would think that a southerner could not separate slavery from states rights.
Like i said the most honorable best leader involved in the Civil War by a long shot was General Lee…
The portrayal of the Civil War being all about slavery and only about slavery makes for good movies but that's about it. Reality shows otherwise

Not every southerner had slaves...but they had a class of people that they were officially superior to
You may be a dirty, illiterate hog farmer without a pot to piss in....but you were still better than a slave

Propaganda of the era had Lincoln not only freeing the slaves but allowing them to vote and marry white women

Lincoln had to be stopped

Lincoln would have rounded up every last black person and shipped them all back to Africa.

He emancipated blacks, instead.

 

[danielpalos]

Abraham Lincoln said war was over taxes, not slavery

Your author takes out of context Lincolns inaugural, where he tries to keep the union together, by saying he wasn't going to start a conflict over slavery. But once ignoring slavery was no longer going to keep the union together, it became the reason.

Your author? Lincoln stated the reason to Horace Greeley. In addition, we have the Emancipation Proclamation only granting freedom to slaves in states still under control of the CSA, not elsewhere under Union control. Why?

No federal taxation, no federal representation in Congress.

 

[danielpalos]

The war, caused by secession in order to ensure Southern slavery, became a struggle to keep states in the Union. And, eventually, slavery became the weapon Lincoln used against the South. He killed the reason for them to secede. He took step by step. He succeeded, and it would have been better for the southern states to not have seceded (heh).

The south overplayed their hand and lost bigly

Lincoln was not going to abolish slavery. He was probably going to be an obscure, one term President. He may have passed some legislation limiting the expansion of slavery, but couldn't have abolished it

By seceding and provoking a war, the South ended up losing their slaves within five years....it would have taken 20-30 years otherwise

The election of Lincoln set off a panic throughout the south.....Lincoln is going to take our slaves away, we had better secede to ensure we can keep them forever

Slavery was going to eventually end even in a Confederate America. What they did was accelerate the process and kill 600,000 Americans. The men who caused that should not be honored

You're ignorance of history is staggering. Neither Lee or Beauregard caused the civil war. Geeze Louise. The liberty monument I have no problem removing, Shit, it was nestled back behind the parking lot of an office tower. Nobody even knew where it was. Anyway, it commemorated something absurd. The Lee and Beauregard statues are iconic NOLA. This is fucking retarded.

Beauregard started the war at Ft Sumter...Traitor

Serving an eviction notice where no Union soldier was killed by a Confederate isn't starting a war. The war began when President Lincoln opted to invade the South.

Dear, a more perfect Union is in our social Contract.

 

[danielpalos]

Progressives want to overlook their past sins/even forget them, the fact remains it was not just about slavery although that was the cause that took up the headlines. To say taxes and states rights had nothing to do with the Civil War is selective at best. Also at the same time Indian tribes all over the Americas had countless slaves... my ancestors had centuries of slave ownership to call their own… The Sioux Indian tribes. Fact

Nobody said it was ONLY about slavery. It was about preserving the union as the number one reason. But in the process of doing that, the slavery question had to be addressed.

Yes, but the way they did it was all wrong, the suspending habeas corpus was absolutely unnecessary... The act showed who the real Lincoln was.. a delusional control freak.
Like I said the most honorable leader involved in the Civil War was Robert E Lee no one was even close…

Why do you believe that?

"Robert E. Lee was a great man who campaigned tirelessly against slavery and tried to get it abolished several times before the war. He only fought for the south because he supported the right of secession." • r/badhistory

The North merely needed to ask for an Order to Show Cause from the South. We have a First Amendment and an Eminent Domain clause.

 

[Divine Wind]

The war, caused by secession in order to ensure Southern slavery, became a struggle to keep states in the Union. And, eventually, slavery became the weapon Lincoln used against the South. He killed the reason for them to secede. He took step by step. He succeeded, and it would have been better for the southern states to not have seceded (heh).

The south overplayed their hand and lost bigly

Lincoln was not going to abolish slavery. He was probably going to be an obscure, one term President. He may have passed some legislation limiting the expansion of slavery, but couldn't have abolished it

By seceding and provoking a war, the South ended up losing their slaves within five years....it would have taken 20-30 years otherwise

The election of Lincoln set off a panic throughout the south.....Lincoln is going to take our slaves away, we had better secede to ensure we can keep them forever

Slavery was going to eventually end even in a Confederate America. What they did was accelerate the process and kill 600,000 Americans. The men who caused that should not be honored

The best and the most honorable leader in the Civil War was General Lee... fact
Saying the Civil War was "ALL'' And/or "just" about slavery is just basically progressive politically correct elementary history…

Any way you define it....the war was about slavery
The Confederacy was formed to preserve the institution of slavery forever

Lee had a choice to make....Stand for human dignity or stand for his state
He chose wrong

some on the left claim, it was about the War of Southern Aggression, antagonistic toward our more perfect Union.

Some on the left claim Hillary isn't corrupt and would be the perfect President sooooooo.....

The south overplayed their hand and lost bigly

Lincoln was not going to abolish slavery. He was probably going to be an obscure, one term President. He may have passed some legislation limiting the expansion of slavery, but couldn't have abolished it

By seceding and provoking a war, the South ended up losing their slaves within five years....it would have taken 20-30 years otherwise

The election of Lincoln set off a panic throughout the south.....Lincoln is going to take our slaves away, we had better secede to ensure we can keep them forever

Slavery was going to eventually end even in a Confederate America. What they did was accelerate the process and kill 600,000 Americans. The men who caused that should not be honored

You're ignorance of history is staggering. Neither Lee or Beauregard caused the civil war. Geeze Louise. The liberty monument I have no problem removing, Shit, it was nestled back behind the parking lot of an office tower. Nobody even knew where it was. Anyway, it commemorated something absurd. The Lee and Beauregard statues are iconic NOLA. This is fucking retarded.

Beauregard started the war at Ft Sumter...Traitor

Serving an eviction notice where no Union soldier was killed by a Confederate isn't starting a war. The war began when President Lincoln opted to invade the South.

Dear, a more perfect Union is in our social Contract.

Yes, dear. OTOH, 51% dominating 49% isn't a "more perfect Union" anymore than a wife-beating husband is part of a "more perfect Union".

 

[danielpalos]

The south overplayed their hand and lost bigly

Lincoln was not going to abolish slavery. He was probably going to be an obscure, one term President. He may have passed some legislation limiting the expansion of slavery, but couldn't have abolished it

By seceding and provoking a war, the South ended up losing their slaves within five years....it would have taken 20-30 years otherwise

The election of Lincoln set off a panic throughout the south.....Lincoln is going to take our slaves away, we had better secede to ensure we can keep them forever

Slavery was going to eventually end even in a Confederate America. What they did was accelerate the process and kill 600,000 Americans. The men who caused that should not be honored

The best and the most honorable leader in the Civil War was General Lee... fact
Saying the Civil War was "ALL'' And/or "just" about slavery is just basically progressive politically correct elementary history…

Any way you define it....the war was about slavery
The Confederacy was formed to preserve the institution of slavery forever

Lee had a choice to make....Stand for human dignity or stand for his state
He chose wrong

some on the left claim, it was about the War of Southern Aggression, antagonistic toward our more perfect Union.

Some on the left claim Hillary isn't corrupt and would be the perfect President sooooooo.....

The election of Lincoln set off a panic throughout the south.....Lincoln is going to take our slaves away, we had better secede to ensure we can keep them forever

Slavery was going to eventually end even in a Confederate America. What they did was accelerate the process and kill 600,000 Americans. The men who caused that should not be honored

You're ignorance of history is staggering. Neither Lee or Beauregard caused the civil war. Geeze Louise. The liberty monument I have no problem removing, Shit, it was nestled back behind the parking lot of an office tower. Nobody even knew where it was. Anyway, it commemorated something absurd. The Lee and Beauregard statues are iconic NOLA. This is fucking retarded.

Beauregard started the war at Ft Sumter...Traitor

Serving an eviction notice where no Union soldier was killed by a Confederate isn't starting a war. The war began when President Lincoln opted to invade the South.

Dear, a more perfect Union is in our social Contract.

Yes, dear. OTOH, 51% dominating 49% isn't a "more perfect Union" anymore than a wife-beating husband is part of a "more perfect Union".

dear, only infidels, protestants, rebels, and renegades, are repugnant to our supreme law of the land and the Cause of a more Perfect Union.

 

[Divine Wind]

The election of Lincoln set off a panic throughout the south.....Lincoln is going to take our slaves away, we had better secede to ensure we can keep them forever

Slavery was going to eventually end even in a Confederate America. What they did was accelerate the process and kill 600,000 Americans. The men who caused that should not be honored

The best and the most honorable leader in the Civil War was General Lee... fact
Saying the Civil War was "ALL'' And/or "just" about slavery is just basically progressive politically correct elementary history…

Any way you define it....the war was about slavery
The Confederacy was formed to preserve the institution of slavery forever

Lee had a choice to make....Stand for human dignity or stand for his state
He chose wrong

some on the left claim, it was about the War of Southern Aggression, antagonistic toward our more perfect Union.

Some on the left claim Hillary isn't corrupt and would be the perfect President sooooooo.....

You're ignorance of history is staggering. Neither Lee or Beauregard caused the civil war. Geeze Louise. The liberty monument I have no problem removing, Shit, it was nestled back behind the parking lot of an office tower. Nobody even knew where it was. Anyway, it commemorated something absurd. The Lee and Beauregard statues are iconic NOLA. This is fucking retarded.

Beauregard started the war at Ft Sumter...Traitor

Serving an eviction notice where no Union soldier was killed by a Confederate isn't starting a war. The war began when President Lincoln opted to invade the South.

Dear, a more perfect Union is in our social Contract.

Yes, dear. OTOH, 51% dominating 49% isn't a "more perfect Union" anymore than a wife-beating husband is part of a "more perfect Union".

dear, only infidels, protestants, rebels, and renegades, are repugnant to our supreme law of the land and the Cause of a more Perfect Union.

Ohhhh, Danny. The Southern-hating LWLs always forget that it was "infidels, protestants, rebels, and renegades" who rebelled against King George and his murderous Redcoats.

 

[danielpalos]

The best and the most honorable leader in the Civil War was General Lee... fact
Saying the Civil War was "ALL'' And/or "just" about slavery is just basically progressive politically correct elementary history…

Any way you define it....the war was about slavery
The Confederacy was formed to preserve the institution of slavery forever

Lee had a choice to make....Stand for human dignity or stand for his state
He chose wrong

some on the left claim, it was about the War of Southern Aggression, antagonistic toward our more perfect Union.

Some on the left claim Hillary isn't corrupt and would be the perfect President sooooooo.....

Beauregard started the war at Ft Sumter...Traitor

Serving an eviction notice where no Union soldier was killed by a Confederate isn't starting a war. The war began when President Lincoln opted to invade the South.

Dear, a more perfect Union is in our social Contract.

Yes, dear. OTOH, 51% dominating 49% isn't a "more perfect Union" anymore than a wife-beating husband is part of a "more perfect Union".

dear, only infidels, protestants, rebels, and renegades, are repugnant to our supreme law of the land and the Cause of a more Perfect Union.

Ohhhh, Danny. The Southern-hating LWLs always forget that it was "infidels, protestants, rebels, and renegades" who rebelled against King George and his murderous Redcoats.

just "European" propaganda. Taxation without representation, was the official answer.

 

[Divine Wind]

Vive la révolution!

 

[danielpalos]

Vive la révolution!

A more Perfect Union means more stable markets and lower prices.

 

[Johann]

I'm a southerner from Florida.

My great-great-great grandfather was a soldier in the 44th georgia infantry regiment, dole's brigade, Army of northern virginia and surrendered at appomattox courthouse in April 1865.

There were a lot of different reasons for the war. A large bit of it was racism and slavery, and that cannot be denied. Though a great many simply fought to defend their homeland and state's rights, reluctantly joining the fight after losing the argument against secession(E.G. General Lee).

But the reason for secession is clear -- Slavery.

That being said, though we've had a great many horrific things in our past including segregation and slavery, let's not forget that Elvis Presley and Martin Luther King, JR were also Southerners, and southern culture and nation is not what it used to be. The New South is much more inclusive.

I just want to be able to be proud of our southland without it being construed as necessarily racist.

No one flying the American flag is considered a supporter of slavery or Native American genocide, despite the history of our country. Why should the south, despite throwing off the chains of segregation and slavery and embracing our black southern brethren, continue to be beholden to the past?