The chinese are trying to steal our elections--------they want Trump out of office badly and they have always cheated to help the Clintons and other swamp creatures with illegal money. This year they have already been snagged sending thousands of fake driver licenses out which likely will be used to allow dems to vote multiple times or commit other crimes to sway the election
Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing up in Chicago’s far northern suburbs, the 17-year-old shadowed local law enforcement as a cadet and...www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing up in Chicago’s far northern suburbs, the 17-year-old shadowed local law enforcement as a cadet and...www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks directing a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.
Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing up in Chicago’s far northern suburbs, the 17-year-old shadowed local law enforcement as a cadet and...www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks directing a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.
Amazing how each end has 20/20 vision on the misdeeds of the other end, and are completely blind to their own.
The adults in the room had better take control pretty fucking soon. Wherever they are.
. They are not charging him him with murder, but reckless homicide and intentional homicide. That is more appropriate. I don't know if he is being charged as an adult...
Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing up in Chicago’s far northern suburbs, the 17-year-old shadowed local law enforcement as a cadet and...www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate target....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people on a political basis huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it AFTER THE FACT.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks dissecting a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.
Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing up in Chicago’s far northern suburbs, the 17-year-old shadowed local law enforcement as a cadet and...www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks directing a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.
Amazing how each end has 20/20 vision on the misdeeds of the other end, and are completely blind to their own.
The adults in the room had better take control pretty fucking soon. Wherever they are.
Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing up in Chicago’s far northern suburbs, the 17-year-old shadowed local law enforcement as a cadet and...www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate target....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people on a political basis huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it AFTER THE FACT.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks dissecting a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing up in Chicago’s far northern suburbs, the 17-year-old shadowed local law enforcement as a cadet and...www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks directing a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.
Amazing how each end has 20/20 vision on the misdeeds of the other end, and are completely blind to their own.
The adults in the room had better take control pretty fucking soon. Wherever they are.
It’s far too late to beg for peace now.
You “adults in the room” should have spoke up long ago against the Lefts shameless attemps to “fundamentally change” our once great nation.
Conservatives have finally put down their Bibles, they’ve become retaliatory and fully engaged, that has you adults in room/passive Leftists pissing your little pink panties.
Deal with it...ITS ON!
The Communist Democrats are upset because he shot one of the domestic terrorists that they are wholeheartedly supporting!
Yeah, and that's an important point: WE failed him. Our problems are cultural, at least in my estimation, and our culture is so tribal and shallow now that it's easy for young people to end up like this.Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing up in Chicago’s far northern suburbs, the 17-year-old shadowed local law enforcement as a cadet and...www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks directing a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.
Amazing how each end has 20/20 vision on the misdeeds of the other end, and are completely blind to their own.
The adults in the room had better take control pretty fucking soon. Wherever they are.
Honest to god Mac, my heart goes out to this 17 yr old, who's life is now ruined. The other's are dead. He even carried a medic kit for heaven's sakes. WE FAILED HIM.
americans dont want any wars,,,but if its to be I suggest you and your ilk not start a fight you arent willing to finish,,Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing up in Chicago’s far northern suburbs, the 17-year-old shadowed local law enforcement as a cadet and...www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate target....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people on a political basis huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it AFTER THE FACT.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks dissecting a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing up in Chicago’s far northern suburbs, the 17-year-old shadowed local law enforcement as a cadet and...www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks directing a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.
Amazing how each end has 20/20 vision on the misdeeds of the other end, and are completely blind to their own.
The adults in the room had better take control pretty fucking soon. Wherever they are.
It’s far too late to beg for peace now.
You “adults in the room” should have spoke up long ago against the Lefts shameless attemps to “fundamentally change” our once great nation.
Conservatives have finally put down their Bibles, they’ve become retaliatory and fully engaged, that has you adults in room/passive Leftists pissing your little pink panties.
Deal with it...ITS ON!
It's what you and your ilk have always wanted. Another civil war.
Yeah, and that's an important point: WE failed him. Our problems are cultural, at least in my estimation, and our culture is so tribal and shallow now that it's easy for young people to end up like this.Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing up in Chicago’s far northern suburbs, the 17-year-old shadowed local law enforcement as a cadet and...www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks directing a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.
Amazing how each end has 20/20 vision on the misdeeds of the other end, and are completely blind to their own.
The adults in the room had better take control pretty fucking soon. Wherever they are.
Honest to god Mac, my heart goes out to this 17 yr old, who's life is now ruined. The other's are dead. He even carried a medic kit for heaven's sakes. WE FAILED HIM.
What this country is going through now is ENTIRELY a self-inflicted wound.
It's going to get much,much worse when President Trump is reelected and the Communist Democrats along with Antifa,BLM and other Communists refuse to accept the results.Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing up in Chicago’s far northern suburbs, the 17-year-old shadowed local law enforcement as a cadet and...www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate target....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people on a political basis huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it AFTER THE FACT.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks dissecting a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing up in Chicago’s far northern suburbs, the 17-year-old shadowed local law enforcement as a cadet and...www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks directing a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.
Amazing how each end has 20/20 vision on the misdeeds of the other end, and are completely blind to their own.
The adults in the room had better take control pretty fucking soon. Wherever they are.
It’s far too late to beg for peace now.
You “adults in the room” should have spoke up long ago against the Lefts shameless attemps to “fundamentally change” our once great nation.
Conservatives have finally put down their Bibles, they’ve become retaliatory and fully engaged, that has you adults in room/passive Leftists pissing your little pink panties.
Deal with it...ITS ON!
It's what you and your ilk have always wanted. Another civil war.
Believe this or not, but the fact that someone is not an obedient Trumpster doesn't mean that they support violence or want a civil war.americans dont want any wars,,,but if its to be I suggest you and your ilk not start a fight you arent willing to finish,,Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing up in Chicago’s far northern suburbs, the 17-year-old shadowed local law enforcement as a cadet and...www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate target....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people on a political basis huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it AFTER THE FACT.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks dissecting a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing up in Chicago’s far northern suburbs, the 17-year-old shadowed local law enforcement as a cadet and...www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks directing a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.
Amazing how each end has 20/20 vision on the misdeeds of the other end, and are completely blind to their own.
The adults in the room had better take control pretty fucking soon. Wherever they are.
It’s far too late to beg for peace now.
You “adults in the room” should have spoke up long ago against the Lefts shameless attemps to “fundamentally change” our once great nation.
Conservatives have finally put down their Bibles, they’ve become retaliatory and fully engaged, that has you adults in room/passive Leftists pissing your little pink panties.
Deal with it...ITS ON!
It's what you and your ilk have always wanted. Another civil war.
I wasnt talking about trump,,,Believe this or not, but the fact that someone is not an obedient Trumpster doesn't mean that they support violence or want a civil war.americans dont want any wars,,,but if its to be I suggest you and your ilk not start a fight you arent willing to finish,,Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing up in Chicago’s far northern suburbs, the 17-year-old shadowed local law enforcement as a cadet and...www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate target....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people on a political basis huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it AFTER THE FACT.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks dissecting a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing up in Chicago’s far northern suburbs, the 17-year-old shadowed local law enforcement as a cadet and...www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks directing a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.
Amazing how each end has 20/20 vision on the misdeeds of the other end, and are completely blind to their own.
The adults in the room had better take control pretty fucking soon. Wherever they are.
It’s far too late to beg for peace now.
You “adults in the room” should have spoke up long ago against the Lefts shameless attemps to “fundamentally change” our once great nation.
Conservatives have finally put down their Bibles, they’ve become retaliatory and fully engaged, that has you adults in room/passive Leftists pissing your little pink panties.
Deal with it...ITS ON!
It's what you and your ilk have always wanted. Another civil war.
The truly troubling thing here is that I even have to say that. Do you understand that, on any level?
Yeah, and that's an important point: WE failed him. Our problems are cultural, at least in my estimation, and our culture is so tribal and shallow now that it's easy for young people to end up like this.Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing up in Chicago’s far northern suburbs, the 17-year-old shadowed local law enforcement as a cadet and...www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks directing a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.
Amazing how each end has 20/20 vision on the misdeeds of the other end, and are completely blind to their own.
The adults in the room had better take control pretty fucking soon. Wherever they are.
Honest to god Mac, my heart goes out to this 17 yr old, who's life is now ruined. The other's are dead. He even carried a medic kit for heaven's sakes. WE FAILED HIM.
What this country is going through now is ENTIRELY a self-inflicted wound.
I don't even know who we can sort it out anymore. Just trying to sort out the truth of the pedo claim on one of the victims took me into murky territory I had no idea existed. The fact that people would go so low as to totally slander a victim of homicide in order to JUSTIFY homicide is unreal. It's on all of us.
Yeah, and that's an important point: WE failed him. Our problems are cultural, at least in my estimation, and our culture is so tribal and shallow now that it's easy for young people to end up like this.Just out of morbid curiosity; one of our more prominent posters here did time in prison. If he were shot dead by some guy who just wanted to kill someone, would you care?
It's starting to look like you are following me around from thread to thread.
Can't understand how you can on the one hand condemn rioting (which I agree with that condemnation) and yet support this. It's internally inconsistent.
Vigilantism is lawlessness. No different than rioting. A 17 year old in no way should be out there in a hyper volatile protest with a high powered rifle. IF the facts so far are correct - and the situation if evolving - he shot and KILLED two people and badly injured a third. Self defense is one thing, but in the initial killing, that does NOT appear to be the case.
The picture of him coming out is also disturbing. Funny how a protestor, standing across the street holding up speakers gets shot in the face by a rubber bullet, is vilified as a jobless bum (despite no evidence of actual participation in rioting) but this guy, illegally carrying a high powered rifle (he's 17) is a "hero". MURDER IS NOT HEROIC.
Something is messed up is very messed up right now if this is a "hero". Police are heroes. Undisciplined private paramilitaries are not. They are as dangerous as mobs of rioters. And they are ANTI-LAW. Anyone who believes in taking the law into their own hands and meting out justice is NOT LAWFUL.
What do we know about this kid?
Who is Kyle Rittenhouse? Here's what we know about the 17-year-old charged in the Kenosha protest shooting.
Before he took his rifle to confront the unrest in Kenosha, Wis., on Tuesday, allegedly killing two people and injuring another, Kyle Rittenhouse seemingly idolized one thing: the police. Growing up in Chicago’s far northern suburbs, the 17-year-old shadowed local law enforcement as a cadet and...www.boston.com
But brief accounts from neighbors and local institutions paint the picture of a high school dropout who viewed law enforcement officers as his personal heroes.So much so that, when massive protests, looting and fires broke out in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on Sunday, he crossed state lines to offer his support to local policemen – at times, speaking as if their duties were his, too.
Police are heavily trained, and they know the law. These guys don't. They have no business acting like police.
There are WAY TOO MANY armed people at these protests and that includes "the left" - you once said once you bring firearms to a protest it is no longer peaceful. Still believe that?
There are WAY TOO MANY OUTSIDERS at these events - both "protestors" and "counter protestors" - they need to be thrown out of town.
Here is what one person said - is she right?
“Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing, but you don’t kill somebody,” she said. “That’s not your business to kill someone for messing with someone else’s business. That’s for the cops to deal with.”
Hmmm, one of the thugs he killed was a pedo who served 12 years, and the other raped and tortured his girlfriend. Fine upstanding citizens those two were.
The last guy was armed with a pistol and the leader of a communist group who wants to destroy the USA.
I should care about violent felons why?
First off the dead felons were trying to attack the kid. At that point I simply don't give a shit what happens to them.
They already have shown they don't care about the Rights of others, and they were trying to kill this kid, so no, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Great way to promote senseless killing on top of senseless rioting.
I'm beyond disgusted by what's happening on all sides.
Everyone seems to listen to the same echo chamber here. The so-called claims of "violent rape and assault" and "pedophilia" were deliberately made up to slander them. How low can you go West short of killing someone? Here's an idea for a start - go to the WI Sex Offender Registry and type in his name. Anything pop up? That is a start at trying untangle this complete mess of layered fakery, bogus claims, and incitements for more violence on both sides.
Second. If you claim these three men (2 dead and 1 injured) were rioters, please show it. Acts of rioting, looting and arson are illegal, we all agree on that. Show us that is what THOSE THREE PEOPLE were doing. Are you claiming EVERYONE at the protest was engaged in arson and looting? Then that must include the kid and the armed private militia people right? Or - wait - are you going to make some distinctions? hmmm....how about Right = lawful, Left = unlawful = legitimate....cause that's where you guys are going with this. That's a good starting point for killing people huh? No need to mess around trying to figure out who is engaged in unlawful activity and who is not. Now, if only there is some way to identify them before we kill them and have to make up crap to justify it.
So what happened here?
Here's one news account with no speculation:
Social media footage surfaced surrounding the late-night fatal shooting during unrest. Witness accounts and video indicate the gunman first shot someone at a car lot just before midnight, but details on what sparked that shooting weren't immediately clear. The alleged gunman then jogged away, fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in on him, some appearing to kick and grab at his weapon. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air as members of the crowd were yelling for him to be arrested because he had shot people.When asked why the gunman was not arrested in the moment, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he couldn't say for certain, but noted the chaos surrounding officers that night.
Since it's all caught on video, it's pretty damn hard to JUSTIFY but easier to UNDERSTAND the shootings - the fact he was there and (illegally) armed to begin with and the fact he was allowed to simply walk away and return to another state and the fact that in that video there was NO criminal behavior being conducted by any of the dead or injured victims speak for themselves. The rest is speculation, differing accounts, deliberate disinformation, witness statements and armchair quarterbacks directing a brief video.
So here are the questions:
WHY WAS A 17 YEAR OLD THERE????? WITH THAT KIND OF WEAPON???? Regardless of what was going on....no one else got shot. Regardless of how I personally feel about private militias (which, as you know, is pretty negative) - THEY didn't shoot anyone either. The police refused to deputize these citizens...for good reason, but they were and imo it's fine to do so - allowed to guard private property. That is FINE. That is what this kid was supposed to be doing, but he LEFT his spot. If he had stayed there nothing would have happened! He was in over his head and he panicked, understandably, when people in the crowd tried to restrain him and get rid of his weapon. As far as anyone could see - the kid was another mass shooter...like Parkland, or any number of events. How could anyone know otherwise when they witness a man shot in the head and another man trotting away with a rifle? He wasn't law enforcement. No badge. No ID. WE FAILED HIM BY ALLOWING HIM TO BE THERE! He is not a hero. He is not a thug. He's a mixed up kid, who badly wanted to be a policeman, who idolized law enforcement, who carried a MEDIC bag in case any protestors needed help, and damn, I just end up crying for HIM, for this one ruined life, someone who really did not seem to have any malice. The dead are dead, but he will have to live with this. It's so wrong.
WHO SHOULD WE BLAME for the riots? Oh, I know the answer that will come from some - commie lefties. Democrats. Sheesh. Get a new playbook. Responsibility ultimately comes down on the mayor. He, along with the city council are responsible for ensuring the safety of his citizens, and their livelyhoods and their homes. Just like if you are the president - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do - the buck stops here.
But there is a bit more than that because nothing is really simple unless you are a business that got burned out, or the fiancé, with a 2 yr old daughter, of a man who is now dead and slandered, or a 17 year old kid who will now be facing a life he never envisioned, or the family of a man brutally shot in the back at close range, and you just want justice.
What could have been done differently?
Let's start at the beginning. What sparked the demonstrations that then turned into rioting?
A video. A video showing police come up to a man, leaning into his car, grabbing him by the shirt, pulling him back and pumping multiple rounds into his back at close range. It was brutal and against the backdrop of so many videos showing (justifiable and unjustifiable) police violence - there should be no surprise at public reaction. I don't care who the man was, there is no way to watch that (if you are a normal person) and not be horrified. This is our new reality - videos. Of EVERYTHING. Harder to sweep things under the rug, easier to spin, misconstrue, take out of context. Easier to inflame "the masses". Easier to see wrong doing.
What preceded that? Attempts at police reform by the Wisconsin governor, stalled by the legislature. Maybe, just maybe, if people see that something is happening and something is being done, and there is transparency the potential for violence is less. The governor is attempting, AGAIN, to pass it
Yet, the mayor himself appears to be tone deaf to his constituency. If he doesn't listen to the other half, and he fails to provide law and order, he's going to deservedly lose re-election. One example - curfews. A good way to tamp down the potential for violence which always seems to escalate at night. There are demonstrations ongoing described as "mostly peaceful". There is supposed to be a curfew. It's NOT BEING ENFORCED. What the hell?
What is your solution? Blame "commies"? Get real. We have a perfect storm with bitter political divisions at EVERY LEVEL, widespread public anger and unrest, a lot of restrictions and confusion with a pandemic, widespread distrust of our leadership, huge unemployment, Congress incapable of doing their job, a hugely divisive and incompetent president, and the worst recession in ages and more internet disinformation than ever before. Take your pick - it all feeds into the unrest.
But I will say this, I was wrong on one thing, I am now agreeing with you that we need law and order more than ever - we need to stop the violence and that means addressing ALL the participants, not politicizing who to go after. But that can't be with private militias, because they become PART of the problem, fed by the same disinformation as the rest of us. Private entities can guard private property but they have no business roaming the streets or public areas and if they kill someone, they face the law on that. The police and our national guard are the ones who need to be doing this. It's their job, it's what they are trained for. Crowd control. Arresting looters and arsonists. Enforcing curfews.
This kid is not a hero. He's a victim. And we are all to blame.
Amazing how each end has 20/20 vision on the misdeeds of the other end, and are completely blind to their own.
The adults in the room had better take control pretty fucking soon. Wherever they are.
Honest to god Mac, my heart goes out to this 17 yr old, who's life is now ruined. The other's are dead. He even carried a medic kit for heaven's sakes. WE FAILED HIM.
What this country is going through now is ENTIRELY a self-inflicted wound.
I don't even know who we can sort it out anymore. Just trying to sort out the truth of the pedo claim on one of the victims took me into murky territory I had no idea existed. The fact that people would go so low as to totally slander a victim of homicide in order to JUSTIFY homicide is unreal. It's on all of us.
Rosenbaum WAS a sex offender. Whether or not it rises to the level of "pedophile" or just a case of statutory rape of a slightly underage girlfriend I don't know because his public records were scrubbed mere hours after his death. I also don't know if it's normal for dead people records to be immediately removed from sex offender registries but it seems suspicious that it was cleaned up so quickly.
