Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

[Indeependent]

Let’s hear your plan minus open borders.

My plan? Academic studies that I have access to don't play well on discussion boards. TLDR.

The real solutions, however, would be obvious if the build the wall guys simply admitted that some of their initial thoughts were in error.

Sorry, bud, my community is fraught with 100s of MDs and PhDs and they disagree with your assessment.

And what kind of country do we have today? Have you ever witnessed a marriage that survived a psychologist? Most of the people you referenced ARE part of the problem.

Huh?
There are over 1,000 families in my community and about 70 divorces in the last 28 years.
Not too shabby.

In your dreams

We have God.

 

[OKTexas]

Is your name Clark Kent?

Did Clark Kent have a career in helping the downtrodden and those locked out of society get a second chance in life?

You’re boring me to death with your bleeding heart, save the world bullshit.
I know plenty of druggies with great parents.
Many druggies may have genetic issues so stop blaming everybody else.

You have an ignore button. Since you don't seem to be smart enough to figure out how to use it, PM me. I'll give you directions.

If you READ the thread, I've pointed out several culprits for the drug culture. Parents are only ONE of them.

We need to bomb Drug Cities South of the Border one at a time until they learn their lesson.

What we need is to lock mental incompetents like you behind four walls so you'd be happy and America would be safe from the stupidity.

Didn't you say walls don't work????? LMAO

.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

I have not asked you about inalienable rights. The question is about unalienable Rights. There's a legal difference. Our constitutional Republic was founded on two very important foundational principles that you know nothing about:
* The Right to own private property
* Unalienable Rights which include, but are not limited to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Porter, let me set you straight.

An UNalienable right (as in the DOI) is an ABSOLUTE RIGHT. God given. Part of your being. Cannot be taken away. Your birthright given to you when you were born. It can be trod upon by force, but not taken away so long as you are alive.

An INalienable right is a right which cannot be taken away. It cannot be lawfully removed. While not actually part of you, it is in your possession for all time.

What is the difference? A distinction with subtle legal ramifications but really looking at the same thing from two slightly different angles. As to the right to own property? Better think again. That is one of the most debatable human rights, subject to different interpretations all around the world, ESPECIALLY in the USA. Try telling the judge when they seize your property that they are depriving you of a human right. You're still free to live at the Y.

Let me set YOU straight:

An unalienable Right is one given by your Creator (your God, whomever you deem that to be.) It is natural, inherent, God given, absolute and irrevocable.) It is not given by man and, according to most ORIGINAL legal precedents, it is above the law.

An inalienable can be forfeited. That it is the basic difference.

You should read this thread. We deal with your issue in post # 2806

What most of us don't understand from your rant is WTF does an inalienable right have to do with this topic?

It doesn't have a damn thing to do with this topic since I don't argue inalienable rights. It's only important that you understand an unalienable Right.

And that's exactly what I thought.

I really doubt that. You've shown NO ability to think thus far.

If you don't know what an unalienable Right is, how would you know whether or not you infringed on mine? You admitted that you didn't know. Reread your responses.

 

[Indeependent]

Let’s hear your plan minus open borders.

My plan? Academic studies that I have access to don't play well on discussion boards. TLDR.

The real solutions, however, would be obvious if the build the wall guys simply admitted that some of their initial thoughts were in error.

Sorry, bud, my community is fraught with 100s of MDs and PhDs and they disagree with your assessment.

And what kind of country do we have today? Have you ever witnessed a marriage that survived a psychologist? Most of the people you referenced ARE part of the problem.

Huh?
There are over 1,000 families in my community and about 70 divorces in the last 28 years.
Not too shabby.

In your dreams

Are you an atheist?

 

[task0778]

Well, I tell ya what, built that wall/fence/whatever high enough, and it'll sure as hell make it really hard to climb over. Maybe it doesn't totally solve the problem, but it does reduce it somewhat and that's better than nothing.

That's was what they thought when they put up 8 foot security fences 25 years ago and then 12 foot fences, then 18 foot reinforced fences. And now 18 or 20 foot barriers is going to do it.

Build a higher fence, and they will get a longer ladder, cut hole with a torch, or dig a tunnel

None of which is easy. You gonna carry a 20-some foot ladder all the way from Guatemala? Or a torch? Most of these people ain't local Mexicans, right? And digging a tunnel ain't easy, ya know? You think a drone will pick up evidence of a tunnel fairly soon after it's dug? Look, a wall or fence isn't foolproof, but it makes it harder to get into the USA and that's the point.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Did Clark Kent have a career in helping the downtrodden and those locked out of society get a second chance in life?

You’re boring me to death with your bleeding heart, save the world bullshit.
I know plenty of druggies with great parents.
Many druggies may have genetic issues so stop blaming everybody else.

You have an ignore button. Since you don't seem to be smart enough to figure out how to use it, PM me. I'll give you directions.

If you READ the thread, I've pointed out several culprits for the drug culture. Parents are only ONE of them.

We need to bomb Drug Cities South of the Border one at a time until they learn their lesson.

What we need is to lock mental incompetents like you behind four walls so you'd be happy and America would be safe from the stupidity.

Didn't you say walls don't work????? LMAO

.

I didn't say it would work. I only said it would make YOU happy. In reality one only need to look at how many people were hoodwinked by ... well I won't name them, but we can't build enough walls to contain the idiots who find you amusing.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

My plan? Academic studies that I have access to don't play well on discussion boards. TLDR.

The real solutions, however, would be obvious if the build the wall guys simply admitted that some of their initial thoughts were in error.

Sorry, bud, my community is fraught with 100s of MDs and PhDs and they disagree with your assessment.

And what kind of country do we have today? Have you ever witnessed a marriage that survived a psychologist? Most of the people you referenced ARE part of the problem.

Huh?
There are over 1,000 families in my community and about 70 divorces in the last 28 years.
Not too shabby.

In your dreams

Are you an atheist?

Christian Pastor

 

[Flopper]

Border wall....a 3rd century "solution" to a 21st. century problem

And what "21st century" solution do you think is more cost effective at stopping people from going from A to B than a wall, hun? A wall may be 3rd century, but they work VERY WELL at stopping people. Which is why they have been used for 18 centuries.

Well, we could take away the reason they're coming here which is not to have babies, rape and pillage, or vote for Hillary Clinton.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

You were telling me what people I associate with are doing, and you're like all ignorant people are assuming facts not in evidence.

.

You are on this board, joining in with misguided people and using the standard talking points associated with the nutty wall idea.

I see your philosophy is if you can't dazzle people with you brilliance you try to baffle them with your bullshit. You're doing a hell of a job on the latter.

.

Typical Liberal bullshit; If you need an explanation, you’re not smart enough to understand it.

I understand fear and your need to join a pack of wolves while not discussing any portion of the subject doth testify as to the fear you have.

You seem to be mistaking common sense for fear, of course that's a standard regressive talking point.

.

You know you're blowing smoke. You haven't shown any common sense - only an intense desire to troll me. How many IQ points does that take? You waste your time with that and what do you accomplish?

 

[Indeependent]

Sorry, bud, my community is fraught with 100s of MDs and PhDs and they disagree with your assessment.

And what kind of country do we have today? Have you ever witnessed a marriage that survived a psychologist? Most of the people you referenced ARE part of the problem.

Huh?
There are over 1,000 families in my community and about 70 divorces in the last 28 years.
Not too shabby.

In your dreams

Are you an atheist?

Christian Pastor

Maybe you suck at what you do.
It could explain the condescending attitude of your postings.

 

[OKTexas]

I've always been honest about it, but you never cared for what I said.

Me being against immigration is for several reason, not just one. I've listed several of them, but there are actually more. And if you list those negatives of immigration vs so-called positives, you will find the negative beats the positive three to one.

If you were being honest, then you were ignorant and need to do some reading in several areas: general civics, history, law and constitutional interpretation.

That, most likely, explains why you try to pass me off as a liberal or a moderate instead of answering questions as they are asked of you.

Pretexts are not reasons. They are just that. For example, in my neighborhood, there are PLENTY of jobs almost anyone with an IQ higher than their shoe size can get. Most pay between $20 and $40 an hour. When they don't take them and Hispanics show up, I work them.

NOWHERE in that scenario does it give you any indication of where I stand on the issue. But, sometimes I need things done and have to work within a budget. If Americans don't apply for the jobs, I either get the help I need or lose what I own. It's that simple. Do you realize I've been at this for four decades now and not one single time has one of the people wanting a wall and bitching about jobs EVER walked away from their computer and applied for a job that I told them about?

Then perhaps it's the state you live in with extraordinary high cost of living. In my state, if you offer somebody 20 bucks an hour, not only will you have Americans applying for the job, but probably a line of them. $40.00 an hour for manual labor? Better get chairs for the people outside waiting to get in.

There is an employment problem in this country, but it's caused by drugs and not lazy Americans. Better paying jobs usually drug test and many can't pass the test. These drugs come from other countries because we have limited border protection on our southern end.

So the long term solution is to get Americans off the drugs first, and that takes harsh measures to rid our country of these narcotics. Your solution is to keep allowing those drugs in, and then importing people to take the jobs American junkies can't get.

I have submitted TWO bills to legislators recently regarding the control of drugs. They are not interested. The know that the government is creating the junkies, but nobody wants to do anything about it.

I don't know if you call being a handyman "manual labor," but most illiterate Mexicans figure it out within six months of training and build decks, paint houses, do basic concrete work, and make small repairs around the house. We got plenty of kids in my neighborhood. Like you, they spend their time on the computer while their mommy pays the Mexican to cut the freaking grass.

And, while you're driving a truck, I work with people trying to resolve family problems. I'm telling you, for a fact, most drug addicts are created by their mommy, an absent or abusive father and the government that thinks drugs are the cure all for every problem.

I've always said there are two wars the US will never win, the war on poverty and the war on drugs, the government imports adequate supplies of both daily.

.

If you quit creating the drug users, the importers have no market.

I don't create drug users, but I would have no problem putting them 6 feet under. The US just doesn't have the balls to really deal with the problem.

.

 

[Indeependent]

You’re boring me to death with your bleeding heart, save the world bullshit.
I know plenty of druggies with great parents.
Many druggies may have genetic issues so stop blaming everybody else.

You have an ignore button. Since you don't seem to be smart enough to figure out how to use it, PM me. I'll give you directions.

If you READ the thread, I've pointed out several culprits for the drug culture. Parents are only ONE of them.

We need to bomb Drug Cities South of the Border one at a time until they learn their lesson.

What we need is to lock mental incompetents like you behind four walls so you'd be happy and America would be safe from the stupidity.

Didn't you say walls don't work????? LMAO

.

I didn't say it would work. I only said it would make YOU happy. In reality one only need to look at how many people were hoodwinked by ... well I won't name them, but we can't build enough walls to contain the idiots who find you amusing.

Having police no longer works because we have lawyers who can provide an IDC10 for every criminal activity.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

And what kind of country do we have today? Have you ever witnessed a marriage that survived a psychologist? Most of the people you referenced ARE part of the problem.

Huh?
There are over 1,000 families in my community and about 70 divorces in the last 28 years.
Not too shabby.

In your dreams

Are you an atheist?

Christian Pastor

Maybe you suck at what you do.
It could explain the condescending attitude of your postings.

Dude, I wasn't condescending until we covered the same ground half a dozen times. You can only cover it so many times until it is a waste of time for both sides. It took over 500 posts to get Ray to admit what he really wanted. In all the times he tried to call me names he would not do publicly, I never responded in like kind.

Now, you're here to play a popularity game and troll me. Not interested, so don't expect too much from me. I'm here for the OP, not like your efforts to be the board's top Drama Queen.

If you have something relative to the OP, I'd like to hear it.

 

[task0778]

Border wall....a 3rd century "solution" to a 21st. century problem

And what "21st century" solution do you think is more cost effective at stopping people from going from A to B than a wall, hun? A wall may be 3rd century, but they work VERY WELL at stopping people. Which is why they have been used for 18 centuries.

Well, we could take away the reason they're coming here which is not to have babies, rape and pillage, or vote for Hillary Clinton.

And just how in the hell do you propose we could take away their reason for coming here? Not one of your better posts.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You and Black are not asking questions, you did take a position.

I've not taken a position, otherwise you would have quoted it.

I will repeat this again: Your ass was probably in diapers the first time I had to publicly give my opinion on this topic. And you can bet the family farm, my response was NOT in any way, shape, fashion, or form liberal or moderate.

Please, don't flatter yourself. I can only wish I was as young as you perceive.

But it's not just me that has you nailed as a near open-border person, several others have done the same. We all can't be wrong.

Of course you can all be wrong. Jim Jones got over 900 people to drink cyanide laced Kool Aid based on a lie. You are just as susceptible to being fooled - AND you just proved it with that part "several others have done the same. We all can't be wrong.."

You just inadvertently admitted you're a Democrat - majority rule - might makes right.

Let me tell you something:

Ever since the Israelites began worshiping the golden calf while Moses was receiving the law of God, history has proven that majorities are usually wrong. In the instant case BOTH sides are wrong - and you're wrong basically because the solutions you stand behind belonged to Democrats before they were adopted by the people writing your talking points.

My goodness you are off the charts tonight. Every one of my concerns and points are the exact opposite of the Democrat party. Yours are much more inline with them than mine. Nobody is "ruling" you, just pointing out that I'm not the only one who sees you as an open borders person.

They can see me for what they like. That won't make it true. As I told you, there are two questions they've never asked me. Their entire world is, much like yours, if you don't buy the build the wall solution as being the only solution, you're an open borders liberal.

If you can't understand, after I've defined what you told me, that YOU are a liberal Democrat, then you are less intelligent than I ever dreamed. You should do some self introspection and then say, if I want to make a difference in the future of my nation and my culture, MAYBE I should STFU, do some studying, and figure out what this is all about.

You're so hung up on trying to peg me that you have no clue as to where I stand. You even ignore the hints. It's like someone is needed to bash you in the head with a rock before you understand: There are many sides to this issue and most people have serious flaws with their proposed solutions.

Every person arguing for a wall could not convince a jury. The recent turnover in the House of Representatives should tell you how ineffective your position is. In order to win, you'd have to be able to make the other guy's argument for him and do a better job than he does. You don't have a freaking clue as to where I stand and you end up making some of the most idiotic statements known to God or man.

That is why you're in the same boat the followers of Jim Jones were in.

Yes, you gained seats in the House, but lost them in the Senate. And if you bother to look at the results, you'd see that both parties had an outstanding and historical turnout. It's just that the hatred of the Democrats won over. But Trump supporters are still behind him as they were during the presidential election.

Nobody ever said the wall is the sole solution. You are making up that BS in your head. The wall (as border patrol stated) is a very helpful part of the solution. The solution is multi-level. The sole solution would be to get the Congress to pass a law making being here illegally a first degree felony with a minimum five year prison sentence. Then there would be no need for a wall, no need for e-veryfiy, no need for additional border agents, no need to track down illegals here. Most of them would pack up and leave the country.

I know quite well what this is all about--you don't. You remain ignorant of the long term goals by the Democrat party yet support their initiatives and furthermore claim yourself as a conservative.

 

[dudmuck]

Well, I tell ya what, built that wall/fence/whatever high enough, and it'll sure as hell make it really hard to climb over. Maybe it doesn't totally solve the problem, but it does reduce it somewhat and that's better than nothing.

That's was what they thought when they put up 8 foot security fences 25 years ago and then 12 foot fences, then 18 foot reinforced fences. And now 18 or 20 foot barriers is going to do it.

Build a higher fence, and they will get a longer ladder, cut hole with a torch, or dig a tunnel

None of which is easy. You gonna carry a 20-some foot ladder all the way from Guatemala? Or a torch? Most of these people ain't local Mexicans, right? And digging a tunnel ain't easy, ya know? You think a drone will pick up evidence of a tunnel fairly soon after it's dug? Look, a wall or fence isn't foolproof, but it makes it harder to get into the USA and that's the point.

This whole discussion is really hilarious, because the only reason "the wall" became a thing is because they wanted to Trump to stay on message for attacking immigrants.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

You have an ignore button. Since you don't seem to be smart enough to figure out how to use it, PM me. I'll give you directions.

If you READ the thread, I've pointed out several culprits for the drug culture. Parents are only ONE of them.

We need to bomb Drug Cities South of the Border one at a time until they learn their lesson.

What we need is to lock mental incompetents like you behind four walls so you'd be happy and America would be safe from the stupidity.

Didn't you say walls don't work????? LMAO

.

I didn't say it would work. I only said it would make YOU happy. In reality one only need to look at how many people were hoodwinked by ... well I won't name them, but we can't build enough walls to contain the idiots who find you amusing.

Having police no longer works because we have lawyers who can provide an IDC10 for every criminal activity.

Cute, but irrelevant.

 

[Flopper]

"The lion’s share goes to reimburse hospitals for delivering babies for women who show up in their emergency rooms, according to interviews with hospital officials and studies."

That is a direct quote from your article. Your point?

That's medical care for illegals.

.

The medical care is provided to the biological host of a baby. So, level with me here, would you support abortion for those people instead?

No I would support shipping her ass out of the country before she drops a kid. And refusing entry to any pregnant woman.

.

.

Good in theory, not always possible in practice.

Maybe we should buy some land in Mexico and set up birthing centers, if a woman gets close, just send her there until the kid is delivered. Any woman requesting a visa should have to prove shes not pregnant. This birth tourism has to be stopped too.

.

Mexican women are going to stop having babies. They've discovered contraceptives. Birth rate is 2.18 and falling. By the time Trump get's his wall built, there won't be anyone to keep out.

 

[Flopper]

Trump will NEVER get money to build his ineffective "solution" to his re-election problems.

What will happen....eventually.....is that republicans in the senate will smarten up to save their own sorry asses and over-ride Trump's vetoes....

Which might well happen when Trump declares congress a national disaster for not giving him money to build his wall.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

I've not taken a position, otherwise you would have quoted it.

I will repeat this again: Your ass was probably in diapers the first time I had to publicly give my opinion on this topic. And you can bet the family farm, my response was NOT in any way, shape, fashion, or form liberal or moderate.

Please, don't flatter yourself. I can only wish I was as young as you perceive.

But it's not just me that has you nailed as a near open-border person, several others have done the same. We all can't be wrong.

Of course you can all be wrong. Jim Jones got over 900 people to drink cyanide laced Kool Aid based on a lie. You are just as susceptible to being fooled - AND you just proved it with that part "several others have done the same. We all can't be wrong.."

You just inadvertently admitted you're a Democrat - majority rule - might makes right.

Let me tell you something:

Ever since the Israelites began worshiping the golden calf while Moses was receiving the law of God, history has proven that majorities are usually wrong. In the instant case BOTH sides are wrong - and you're wrong basically because the solutions you stand behind belonged to Democrats before they were adopted by the people writing your talking points.

My goodness you are off the charts tonight. Every one of my concerns and points are the exact opposite of the Democrat party. Yours are much more inline with them than mine. Nobody is "ruling" you, just pointing out that I'm not the only one who sees you as an open borders person.

They can see me for what they like. That won't make it true. As I told you, there are two questions they've never asked me. Their entire world is, much like yours, if you don't buy the build the wall solution as being the only solution, you're an open borders liberal.

If you can't understand, after I've defined what you told me, that YOU are a liberal Democrat, then you are less intelligent than I ever dreamed. You should do some self introspection and then say, if I want to make a difference in the future of my nation and my culture, MAYBE I should STFU, do some studying, and figure out what this is all about.

You're so hung up on trying to peg me that you have no clue as to where I stand. You even ignore the hints. It's like someone is needed to bash you in the head with a rock before you understand: There are many sides to this issue and most people have serious flaws with their proposed solutions.

Every person arguing for a wall could not convince a jury. The recent turnover in the House of Representatives should tell you how ineffective your position is. In order to win, you'd have to be able to make the other guy's argument for him and do a better job than he does. You don't have a freaking clue as to where I stand and you end up making some of the most idiotic statements known to God or man.

That is why you're in the same boat the followers of Jim Jones were in.

Yes, you gained seats in the House, but lost them in the Senate. And if you bother to look at the results, you'd see that both parties had an outstanding and historical turnout. It's just that the hatred of the Democrats won over. But Trump supporters are still behind him as they were during the presidential election.

Nobody ever said the wall is the sole solution. You are making up that BS in your head. The wall (as border patrol stated) is a very helpful part of the solution. The solution is multi-level. The sole solution would be to get the Congress to pass a law making being here illegally a first degree felony with a minimum five year prison sentence. Then there would be no need for a wall, no need for e-veryfiy, no need for additional border agents, no need to track down illegals here. Most of them would pack up and leave the country.

I know quite well what this is all about--you don't. You remain ignorant of the long term goals by the Democrat party yet support their initiatives and furthermore claim yourself as a conservative.

I have endured your dumbassery long enough. I didn't win a damn thing Ray as I voted Republican. I don't support Democracy - not in name, not by party, not by ideology. YOU DO and I'm sick and tired of your dishonesty so I'll treat you like you treat me.

You have one standard. If someone does not back the silly wall, they are a liberal, etc. THAT is what separates you from others with an IQ higher than their shoe size.

If you had ANY IQ, you would know why Congress can pass no such law as you suggest. My only point to you is that we are restricted by the parameters of the Constitution and SCOTUS rulings in what kind of legislation we an pass.

You have proven to be a fake, a phony, a fraud, and a poseur. YOU adopted Bill Clinton's philosophy and have your head stuck so far up the liberals ass that if they fart, you will choke to death or get your first breath of air.

Now, you've called me a liberal for the last time. Put up, shut up or get ready for a nasty back and forth. Enough of this B.S. You didn't know what an unalienable Right is so you don't have a clue when you advocate withholding one or denying one to someone. You would have to kill me Ray in order to do some of the things you propose. My Rights are unalienable. You cannot take them; you cannot impose on them. To even suggest it shows that YOU ARE NOT EVEN AN AMERICAN.

You should start at post #2806. Read it and then cull through those 500 posts so you can see the number of times you LIED, called me names and tried to deflect when asked direct questions. It's not my fault that the left misled you and made a socialist out of you. Now, you want a discussion or a pissing match?