yidnar
Diamond Member
true Americans love Israel because they are our only true ally in that part of the world .why does the left hate them so much ??
Why Does The Right Love Israel?
- Thread starter Lakhota
- Start date
Hossfly
ZIONIST
Maybe Lakhota can also be one of those who grow a long bushy beard and join that small group of Jews when they visit their loone Ayatollah friends in Iran. Each time one of the anti-Semites brings up this small group which they learned about on the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites and drag them up all the time (none of us would even have heard of these Jews except those who happen to live in their neighborhoods which of course Lakhota doesn't), I wonder if they realize that this small group of Jews believes that when the Messiah comes, the only ones left in Israel will be the Jews. However, none of the Jew Haters think to question them as to where all the others will disappear to.
MikeK
Gold Member
What is your definition of the word, ally?
An example of a U.S. ally (in the universally accepted sense of the word) is England. They go where we need them and we go where they need us. I'll ask you how many Israeli boots are on the ground in Afghanistan? How many Israelis died in Iraq? How many Israelis died in Vietnam? I respectfully suggest that because you and many other misguided Americans choose to go along with the mis-designation of Israel as an ally does not make it so.
And "hate" is not the word for what most anti-Israel Americans feel toward Israel. The correct word is resentment. Speaking for myself, with deference to the many decent and right-thinking Israeli citizens, most of whom protest the oppressive actions of their aggressively arrogant government, how am I supposed to feel toward a foreign country which does nothing but cause massive problems for us and does absolutely nothing useful for us in return?
Are you aware that U.S. support of Israel was the primary motivation for the 9/11 attack?
Do you believe the attack on the USS Liberty was a "mistake?" An "accident?"
And how do you feel about the Jonathan Pollard espionage affair, the most damaging example of spying in history, which Israel conducted against us -- it's benefactor?
Can you tell me one good reason why the U.S. should continue serving as Israel's protector and recipient of $3 billions+ dollars in annual "aid?"
What does Israel do for us?
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Mike check your "facts" even the islamo nazi propaganda of the 1950s did
not make the flamboyant claims in which you indulge-----until later ON---in the
1960s when the islamo nazi pig propaganda included the interesting idea that
the US AIR FORCE took part in the war in Israel in 1948.
Try again----in fact the US did not support Israel at all MILITARILY until
after 1967
Israeli defense forces date back to the early part of the 1900s when jews first decided it
is time to learn how to shoot a gun-----an act of defiance to SHARIAH LAW
you are very clueless
synagogues in the arabian desert date back more than 2500 years ---probably
3000. But Saudi arabia is not likely to reveal them when they appear during construction
projected in the erstwhile Yathrib-----now called "medina"
more information for you----jews who fought in world war I-----did learn how to
use guns-----for just about the first time in history. Do you know anything
about shariah and justinian law and the use of weapons?
Dot Com
Nullius in verba
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Friends don't spy on friends? What freaking universe do you live in? Or are you just a liberal? You know, a person who looks at the world from the perspective of having their head stuck up their ass? Friends spy on friends EVERY day in this world. America spy on it's friends all the time as does EVERY other nation, including every western nation. You people are dumbasses.
Hossfly
ZIONIST
I was under the impression that Bin Laden couldn't stand American boots on the grounds in that sacred land of Saudi Arabia, and Israel was thrown in latter on. Right after 9/11, there was a message board set up for people to talk about 9/11, and immediately the NeoNazis and other anti-Semites were blaming Israel, the Mossad or the U.S. for carrying out this atrocity (even before the dust had a chance to settle). As for the Liberty, why not go to many Naval bases and ask the retirees entering to do their shopping what they think of it. You will find that they feel it was an accident of war. As for Jonathon Pollard, you really should do some research about this (and not on some NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites) where you will find different opinions from people more knowledgeable than you as to why he was sentenced so harshly. Meanwhile, a South Korea spied on the U,S. and was given a 7-year sentence, and released after 6. Perhaps you should tell the South Korean community who was complaining about his sentence that they should be glad that he wasn't given a sentence like Pollard. As for the money which is allocated for Israel, this money mainly has to be spent here in our own defense industry, giving Americans jobs. Can you tell us where all the money we have given to other countries had gone to except into the pockets of some tyrants and dictators? Meanwhile, your post is the same old, same old we have read from years on end. By now it is like a broken record.
Seal, you seem to believe that if a person feels something, that feeling accurately reflects reality and is a 'fact'. That is not so.
If you think that I have 'twisted' your posts about AIM - why don't you explain what you think I 'twisted'?
The quote wasn't made 'in the name of' anything except honesty. And you still haven't explained how you could 'know' Dr King never said such a thing. Or how you 'know' the people reporting it were mistaken or lying.
As for who Dr. King would stand with - there are a lot of Zionists and Jews who didn't stand with the people you named. We don't all think alike, yanno. And there are other choices that the dichotomies you presented.
Well, at least you've ventured far enough out of the closet to admit that you hate 'the Jews'. That's a start : ))
sealadaigh
Rookie
- Banned
- #90
do not twist my words, marg. i do not twist yours.
also, i cannot prove a negative. roudy's allegation of what king said has less credibility than skit's cleaning woman at the UN's statement about something or other which, by the way, no one disproved either.
the closet comment is out of line.
MikeK
Gold Member
While your compulsive use of personal insults identifies you as a moron it is possible your erroneous notions about spying might influence others, so for the benefit of those who might be confused by your error I will spend the time to correct it.
While it is true that friendly nations do "spy" on each other all the time, it is called intelligence gathering and it consists of superficial observations made by various categories of individuals, from tourists and travelers to intelligence operatives who submit their routine observations for analysis and interpretation by intelligence agencies. This activity is commonplace and is not regarded as critical or damaging. This kind of intelligence gathering is analogous to peeking through one's blinds at a neighbor's coming and going.
But there is another level of spying which is neither as relatively benign or acceptable as is ordinary, superficial intelligence gathering. It is called espionage and there is nothing superficial about it because it involves methodical penetration of high-level barriers for the purpose of compromising a subject's national defense capabilities. In contrast with the peeking through the blinds type of spying referred to in your feeble attempt to minimize what the traitor, Pollard, did to the U.S., espionage would be analogous to picking a neighbor's lock in his absence and searching his belongings -- which is a serious crime as well as an egregious betrayal.
Jonathan Pollard was not an ordinary intelligence-gathering spy. He was a paid espionage agent operating on behalf of and under the direction of a foreign government. His actions were on the same level as those of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg and David Greenglass.
If you wish to know more about the serious nature of Pollard's activities, the following is a comment by Caspar Weinberger, Secretary of State during Pollard's trial.
(Excerpt)
I am Caspar W. Weinberger, Secretary of Defense. I offer this declaration to supplement my in camera submission, which detailed the nature and extent of the harm defendant has caused to our national security, and to make known to the Court additional facts which have been brought to my attention. I also wish to address the defendantÂ’s self-serving contentions [.pdf] that his espionage activities were intended only to aid Israel, and the suggestion that his actions should be viewed as mere technical violations of laws intended to keep sensitive information from actual or potential enemies.
It is difficult for me, even in the so-called “year of the spy,” to conceive of a greater harm to national security than that caused by the defendant in view of the breadth, the critical importance to the U.S., and the high sensitivity of the information he sold to Israel. That information was intentionally reserved by the United States for its own use, because to disclose it, to anyone or any nation, would cause the greatest harm to our national security. Our decisions to withhold and preserve certain intelligence information, and the sources and methods of its acquisition, either in total or in part, are taken with great care, as part of a plan for national defense and foreign policy which has been consistently applied throughout many administrations. The defendant took it upon himself unilaterally to reverse those policies. In so doing, he both damaged and destroyed policies and national assets which have taken many years, great effort and enormous national resources to secure.
Declassified Statement on Jonathan Pollard by Caspar W. Weinberger by Caspar W. Weinberger -- Antiwar.com
(Close)
So any attempt on your part to minimize the nature of Israel's aggression against the U.S. via the Pollard espionage affair will serve as evidence of your own disloyalty
Lipush
Gold Member
We pray for Jonathan Pollard to be freed from prison, finally.
MikeK
Gold Member
Here are some excerpts from the PBS interview with bin Laden in 1998. Draw your own conclusions:
(Excerpts)
A Revealing May 1998 Interview with Osama bin Laden
"...while America blocks the entry of weapons into Islamic countries, it provides the Israelis with a continuous supply of arms allowing them thus to kill and massacre more Muslims. Your religion does not forbid you from committing such acts, so you have no right to object to any response or retaliation that reciprocates your own actions." --Osama bin Laden
Read this interview before it disappears from the web:
Who Is Bin Laden? - Interview With Osama Bin Laden (in May 1998) | Hunting Bin Laden | FRONTLINE | PBS
Excerpts from the Interview with Osama bin Laden:
Western forces... support the Jewish and Zionist plans for expansion of what is called the Great Israel. Surely, their presence is not out of concern over their interests in the region....Their presence has no meaning save one, and that is to offer support to the Jews in Palestine...
...For over half a century, Muslims in Palestine have been slaughtered and assaulted and robbed of their honor and of their property. Their houses have been blasted, their crops destroyed. And the strange thing is that any act on their part to avenge themselves or to lift the injustice befalling them causes great agitation in the United Nations which hastens to call for an emergency meeting only to convict the victim and to censure the wronged and the tyrannized, whose children have been killed and whose crops have been destroyed and whose farms have been pulverized. ...
It is not enough for the... people (of the West) to show pain when they see our children being killed in Israeli raids launched by American planes, nor does this serve the purpose. What they ought to do is change their governments which attack our countries.
...The enmity between us and the Jews goes far back in time and is deep rooted. There is no question that war between the two of us is inevitable. For this reason it is not in the interest of Western governments to expose...their people to all kinds of retaliation for almost nothing. It is hoped that people of those countries will initiate a positive move and force their governments not to act on behalf of other states and other sects...
The leaders in America and in other countries as well have fallen victim to Jewish Zionist blackmail. They have mobilized their people against Islam and against Muslims. These are portrayed in such a manner as to drive people to rally against them. The truth is that the whole Muslim world is the victim of international terrorism, engineered by America at the United Nations. We are a nation whose sacred symbols have been looted and whose wealth and resources have been plundered. It is normal for us to react against the forces that invade our land and occupy it. Once again, I have to stress the necessity of focusing on the Americans and the Jews for they represent the spearhead with which the members of our religion have been slaughtered.
The Americans started it and retaliation and punishment should be carried out following the principle of reciprocity, especially when women and children are involved. Through history, America has not been known to differentiate between the military and the civilians or between men and women or adults and children. Those who threw atomic bombs and used the weapons of mass destruction against Nagasaki and Hiroshima were the Americans. Can the bombs differentiate between military (men) and women and infants and children?
America has no religion that can deter her from exterminating whole peoples. Your position against Muslims in Palestine is despicable and disgraceful. America has no shame. ... We believe that the worst thieves in the world today and the worst terrorists are the Americans. Nothing could stop you except perhaps retaliation in kind... As to what you said about the attempt to assassinate President Clinton, it is not surprising. What do you expect from people attacked by Clinton, whose sons and mothers have been killed by Clinton? Do you expect anything but treatment by reciprocity?
... Allah has granted the Muslim people and the Afghani mujahedeen, and those with them, the opportunity to fight the Russians and the Soviet Union. ... They were defeated by Allah and were wiped out. There is a lesson here. The Soviet Union entered Afghanistan late in December of '79. The flag of the Soviet Union was folded once and for all on the 25th of December just 10 years later. It was thrown in the waste basket. Gone was the Soviet Union forever. We are certain that we shall - with the grace of Allah - prevail over the Americans and over the Jews, as the Messenger of Allah promised us in an authentic prophetic tradition when He said the Hour of Resurrection shall not come before Muslims fight Jews and before Jews hide behind trees and behind rocks.
...We are certain - with the grace of Allah - that we shall prevail over the Jews and over those fighting with them. Today however, our battle against the Americans is far greater than our battle was against the Russians. Americans have committed unprecedented stupidity. They have attacked Islam and its most significant sacrosanct symbols ... . We anticipate a black future for America. Instead of remaining United States, it shall end up separated states and shall have to carry the bodies of its sons back to America.
After our victory in Afghanistan and the defeat of the oppressors who had killed millions of Muslims, the legend about the invincibility of the superpowers vanished. Our boys no longer viewed America as a superpower. So, when they left Afghanistan, they went to Somalia and prepared themselves carefully for a long war. They had thought that the Americans were (tough) like the Russians, so they trained and prepared. They were stunned when they discovered how low was the morale of the American soldier. America had entered with 30,000 soldiers in addition to thousands of soldiers from different countries in the world...
As I said, our boys were shocked by the low morale of the American soldier and they realized that the American soldier was just a paper tiger. He was unable to endure the strikes that were dealt to his army, so he fled, and America had to stop all its bragging and all that noise it was making in the press after the Gulf War in which it destroyed the infrastructure and the milk and dairy industry that was vital for the infants and the children and the civilians and blew up dams which were necessary for the crops people grew to feed their families. Proud of this destruction, America assumed the titles of world leader and master of the New World Order. After a few blows, it forgot all about those titles and rushed out of Somalia in shame and disgrace, dragging the bodies of its soldiers.... I was in Sudan when this happened.
Our mothers and daughters and sons are slaughtered every day with the approval of America and its support. And, while America blocks the entry of weapons into Islamic countries, it provides the Israelis with a continuous supply of arms allowing them thus to kill and massacre more Muslims. Your religion does not forbid you from committing such acts, so you have no right to object to any response or retaliation that reciprocates your own actions.
But, and in spite of this, our retaliation is directed primarily against the soldiers only and against those standing by them. Our religion forbids us from killing innocent people such as women and children. This, however, does not apply to women fighters. A woman who puts herself in the same trench with men, gets what they get. ...
Interviewer: Do you have a message for the American people?
Bin Laden: I say to them that they have put themselves at the mercy of a disloyal government, and this is most evident in Clinton's administration...We believe that this administration represents Israel inside America. Take the sensitive ministries such as the...Ministry of Defense and the CIA, you will find that the Jews have the upper hand in them. They make use of America to further their plans for the world...
American presence in the Gulf provides support to the Jews and protects their rear. And while millions of Americans are homeless and destitute and live in abject poverty, their government is busy occupying our land and building new settlements and helping Israel build new settlements in the (region that was the) point of departure for our Prophet's midnight journey to the seven heavens. America throws her own sons in the land of the two Holy Mosques for the sake of protecting Jewish interests. ...
The (Federal) government is leading America towards hell. ... We say to the Americans as people and to American mothers, if they cherish their lives and if they cherish their sons, they must elect an American patriotic government that caters to their interests, not the interests of the Jews. If the present injustice continues...it will inevitably move the battle to American soil... This is my message to the American people. I urge them to find a serious administration that acts in their interest and does not attack people and violate their honor and pilfer their wealth. ...
--OSAMA BIN LADEN, 1998
Complete interview online at:
Who Is Bin Laden? - Interview With Osama Bin Laden (in May 1998) | Hunting Bin Laden | FRONTLINE | PBS
(Close)
As for Jonathan Pollard: He betrayed his country by acting as a paid espionage agent operating on behalf of a foreign nation (Israel). Yet you and many other American Jews seem to think because he did it for Israel it really isn't so bad. So I suggest you ask some American gentiles about their thoughts on what Pollard did and what punishment he deserves.
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MikeK
Gold Member
As an Israeli citizen your feelings are perfectly understandable.
Hossfly
ZIONIST
You can give us the same song and dance we have heard plenty of times from posters with the same mind set as you have, but I think many of the readers realize by now that you are an anti-Semite. And by the way, most Americans are not even thinking about Israel, except maybe those who frequent the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites. Since Americans are aware of the atrocities Muslims are committing in the Middle East and other parts of the Muslim world against others and even their own fellow Muslims, Americans are thinking more about the radical Muslims and how many are in our midst ready to commit another atrocity like 9/11. But keep on trucking, Mike, while you close your eyes to what is actually going on in this world. Hey, if it makes you happy to blame Israel and/or the Jews, who are we to stop you from having a little happiness? And if it even gives you more happiness to figure out a way to blame the Jews and/or Israel for the millions of innocents the Muslims have murdered, go for it.
MikeK
Gold Member
I must concede I have researched to the limits of Google but cannot find any authoritative documentation to support my statement that the U.S. had supported Israel prior to 1967. But that exclusion from my commentary in no way influences any other part of it.
Although I have found no affirmative documentation referring to U.S. support of Israel before 1967, mainly because any such support would have violated the terms of agreement with the USSR, perhaps you can explain how a U.S. Army colonel, David ("Mickey") Marcus, an officer with almost no combat experience but a long-term OSS operative (OSS was CIA predecessor) traveled to Israel under the assumed name of Stone and is said to have single-handedly trained the fledgling IDF. Just him. All by himself. Nobody else.
Also, not to suggest any covert activity on the part of the U.S., but can you explain why every photograph I've ever seen of early IDF troopers shows them armed with M-1 Garand rifles, and why all their jeeps and trucks were U.S. surplus? If not, I'm sure you'll agree these are curious circumstances.
Last, I know nothing about Sharia and Justinian Law, but if you're talking about the use of military weapons I am adequately informed on the subject. Why do you ask?
MikeK
Gold Member
The "song and dance" I've given you happens to be a legitimate transcript from the PBS Frontline interview with Osama bin Laden in 1998. You're free to research its authenticity via Google and other sources. I didn't make it up.
As to your accusation that I'm an anti-Semite, I won't argue with you because I know it will do no good. But I will tell you I harbor a strong and righteous dislike for American Jews who refuse to acknowledge that Israel is as much a foreign country as is any other foreign country and whose loyalty to Israel exceeds their loyalty to the U.S.
Your denouncement of me as an anti-Semite is either a defensive component of your disloyalty or it's simply a manifestation of the paranoia that affects many (most?) American Jews, and which I happen to believe is predicated on a sense of self-hatred.
But if it comforts you to dismiss me as an anti-Semite, I have no problem with that. I've been around awhile and I'm used to the Big Oy!
" I harbor a strong and righteous dislike for American Jews who refuse to acknowledge that Israel is as much a foreign country as is any other foreign country and whose loyalty to Israel exceeds their loyalty to the U.S."
I absolutely agree with you on that! Now - how many such individuals do you suppose there are?
I absolutely agree with you on that! Now - how many such individuals do you suppose there are?
You better do a little more research son. America has often times launched extensive intelligence gathering operations against our friends and allies, nations do it all the time.
No Surprises: Israel, America, and Spying - National Review Onlinewww.nationalreview.com/.../no-surprises-israel-america-and...Cached
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by Daniel Pipes - in 418 Google+ circles - More by Daniel Pipes
Aug 7, 2012 – But spying on allies is the norm, and it's a two-way street. Before ... U.S. spying, he concludes, has exposed “Israel's deepest policy secrets.” ...
Leak Offers Look at Efforts by U.S. to Spy on Israel - NYTimes.comwww.nytimes.com/2011/09/06/us/06leak.html?pagewanted=allYou +1'd this publicly. Undo
Sep 5, 2011 – In his first interview about the case, Mr. Silverstein offered a rare glimpse of American spying on a close ally. He said he had burned the secret ...
U.S. spies on its allies without premission (Norway, Sweden ...todayshottopic.com/.../u-s-spies-on-its-allies-without-premission-nor...Cached
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Rating: 2.3/10 - 3 votes
Jan 20, 2011 – The US Mission in Geneva is under investigation by the Swiss Justice and Police Department (FDJP) and the Swiss Foreign Affairs Department ...
Why allies spy on allies. - Slate Magazinewww.slate.com/articles/news_and.../war.../the_friendly_spook.htmlCached
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Sep 1, 2004 – That is, do nations spy on their allies? Do they do so ... The documents he allegedly leaked were about U.S. policy toward Iran. (Franklin was ...
Allies have ALWAYS spied on allies, this is a fact of life. And I'm not minimizing anything, Pollard should have been taken out and shot, but the FACT is that allies have ALWAYS spied on eachother and always will. Nation will ALWAYS do what is in THEIR best interest. You don't abandon an ally that is fighting the same enemy as you are just becuase of it.
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