Why does the NRA shill "defense gun use" when there are only 500 cases of self defense a year...

[Housepaint]

And most of them are by cops, or don;t involve guns at all

There are only about 500 cases of self defense in the United States a year



http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...ded_homicide_data_table_14_justifiable_homici de_by_weapon_law_enforcement_2009-2013.xls


These 500 self defense cases include:


* Those involving police officers, which makes up the vast majority of cases


* people whose lives were not in danger, but who simply killed somebody trying to take their purse of TV sets


* Cold blooded murders justified under "stand your ground" laws, such as the murders of Trayvon Martin or Michael Brown


*Cases NOT involving guns, but instead where self defense was carried out with a baseball bat or pepper spray


Meanwhile, 30,000 innocent people minding their own business are shot a year with guns. Key Gun Violence Statistics Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence


So let me ask you this: how does 500 cases of self defense a year, most of them by police officers or not involving guns at all, justify the ownership of guns for self defense, at the cost of 30,000 innocent lives a year?

 

[Stephanie]

another troll trolling

four threads in under a minute

 

[whitehall]

Maybe you missed a couple of decimal points. The CDC estimates that firearms are used for self defense from 500,000 to a million times per year in the U.S.

 

[Housepaint]

Maybe you missed a couple of decimal points. The CDC estimates that firearms are used for self defense from 500,000 to a million times per year in the U.S.

Nope. The number is in the thousands, as cited in my OP

Meanwhile, the number of accidental shootings is significantly higher

 

[OKTexas]

And most of them are by cops, or don;t involve guns at all

There are only about 500 cases of self defense in the United States a year



http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...ded_homicide_data_table_14_justifiable_homici de_by_weapon_law_enforcement_2009-2013.xls


These 500 self defense cases include:


* Those involving police officers, which makes up the vast majority of cases


* people whose lives were not in danger, but who simply killed somebody trying to take their purse of TV sets


* Cold blooded murders justified under "stand your ground" laws, such as the murders of Trayvon Martin or Michael Brown


*Cases NOT involving guns, but instead where self defense was carried out with a baseball bat or pepper spray


Meanwhile, 30,000 innocent people minding their own business are shot a year with guns. Key Gun Violence Statistics Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence


So let me ask you this: how does 500 cases of self defense a year, most of them by police officers or not involving guns at all, justify the ownership of guns for self defense, at the cost of 30,000 innocent lives a year?

You're a fucking liar.

Estimates over the number of defensive gun uses vary, depending on the study's population, criteria, time-period studied, and other factors. Higher end estimates by Kleck and Gertz show between 1 to 2.5 million DGUs in the United States each year.[1]:64–65[2][3] Low end estimates cited by Hemenway show approximately 55,000-80,000 such uses each year.[4][5] Middle estimates have estimated approximately 1 million DGU incidents in the United States

Defensive gun use - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[whitehall]

And most of them are by cops, or don;t involve guns at all

There are only about 500 cases of self defense in the United States a year



http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...ded_homicide_data_table_14_justifiable_homici de_by_weapon_law_enforcement_2009-2013.xls


These 500 self defense cases include:


* Those involving police officers, which makes up the vast majority of cases


* people whose lives were not in danger, but who simply killed somebody trying to take their purse of TV sets


* Cold blooded murders justified under "stand your ground" laws, such as the murders of Trayvon Martin or Michael Brown


*Cases NOT involving guns, but instead where self defense was carried out with a baseball bat or pepper spray


Meanwhile, 30,000 innocent people minding their own business are shot a year with guns. Key Gun Violence Statistics Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence


So let me ask you this: how does 500 cases of self defense a year, most of them by police officers or not involving guns at all, justify the ownership of guns for self defense, at the cost of 30,000 innocent lives a year?

You're a fucking liar.

Estimates over the number of defensive gun uses vary, depending on the study's population, criteria, time-period studied, and other factors. Higher end estimates by Kleck and Gertz show between 1 to 2.5 million DGUs in the United States each year.[1]:64–65[2][3] Low end estimates cited by Hemenway show approximately 55,000-80,000 such uses each year.[4][5] Middle estimates have estimated approximately 1 million DGU incidents in the United States

Defensive gun use - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Using the "F" word doesn't enhance your argument. Wicki only gives generic information Look up the CDC stats commissioned by Barry Hussein.

 

[prison/con.net]

i've pointed guns at men 6x in my own life I've never drank booze, nor used dope or pursued trouble. A couple of times, it was just fools trying to "scare" me, when I was very young. There were also a few cases vs dog attack, too. The feeling is surreal. If you have trained enough at the cccw fast draw, the gun seems to "grow out of your wrist". you need it and there it is. Several times, I also had to cycle the slide and did so without thought or hesitation. The real number of defensive uses, by civilians, is over 1 million times per year. They just don't tell the cops or media about it. I certainly did not. I personally know of over a dozen friends who did the same sort of thing

 

[prison/con.net]

there are far more wounded than killed in shootings. the 30,000 includes suicides and pos's whose death is a very positive thing, along with many others who are no loss to society. So the innocent deaths are more like 5000, but when you plug in the 4 wounded for each one killed, the number gets back close to 30,000. But it's still at least 10 to one in favor of guns being a great advantage to our society.

 

[OKTexas]

And most of them are by cops, or don;t involve guns at all

There are only about 500 cases of self defense in the United States a year



http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...ded_homicide_data_table_14_justifiable_homici de_by_weapon_law_enforcement_2009-2013.xls


These 500 self defense cases include:


* Those involving police officers, which makes up the vast majority of cases


* people whose lives were not in danger, but who simply killed somebody trying to take their purse of TV sets


* Cold blooded murders justified under "stand your ground" laws, such as the murders of Trayvon Martin or Michael Brown


*Cases NOT involving guns, but instead where self defense was carried out with a baseball bat or pepper spray


Meanwhile, 30,000 innocent people minding their own business are shot a year with guns. Key Gun Violence Statistics Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence


So let me ask you this: how does 500 cases of self defense a year, most of them by police officers or not involving guns at all, justify the ownership of guns for self defense, at the cost of 30,000 innocent lives a year?

You're a fucking liar.

Estimates over the number of defensive gun uses vary, depending on the study's population, criteria, time-period studied, and other factors. Higher end estimates by Kleck and Gertz show between 1 to 2.5 million DGUs in the United States each year.[1]:64–65[2][3] Low end estimates cited by Hemenway show approximately 55,000-80,000 such uses each year.[4][5] Middle estimates have estimated approximately 1 million DGU incidents in the United States

Defensive gun use - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Using the "F" word doesn't enhance your argument. Wicki only gives generic information Look up the CDC stats commissioned by Barry Hussein.

I wasn't trying to enhance my argument, I was showing an appropriate level of respect to the PMH sock. Also if you actually read the wiki article they say where the numbers came from and gave high, mid and low ends of the estimates, 55,000 being the lowest and 2.5 million being the highest.

 

[Housepaint]

And most of them are by cops, or don;t involve guns at all

There are only about 500 cases of self defense in the United States a year



http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...ded_homicide_data_table_14_justifiable_homici de_by_weapon_law_enforcement_2009-2013.xls


These 500 self defense cases include:


* Those involving police officers, which makes up the vast majority of cases


* people whose lives were not in danger, but who simply killed somebody trying to take their purse of TV sets


* Cold blooded murders justified under "stand your ground" laws, such as the murders of Trayvon Martin or Michael Brown


*Cases NOT involving guns, but instead where self defense was carried out with a baseball bat or pepper spray


Meanwhile, 30,000 innocent people minding their own business are shot a year with guns. Key Gun Violence Statistics Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence


So let me ask you this: how does 500 cases of self defense a year, most of them by police officers or not involving guns at all, justify the ownership of guns for self defense, at the cost of 30,000 innocent lives a year?

You're a fucking liar.

Estimates over the number of defensive gun uses vary, depending on the study's population, criteria, time-period studied, and other factors. Higher end estimates by Kleck and Gertz show between 1 to 2.5 million DGUs in the United States each year.[1]:64–65[2][3] Low end estimates cited by Hemenway show approximately 55,000-80,000 such uses each year.[4][5] Middle estimates have estimated approximately 1 million DGU incidents in the United States

Defensive gun use - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Using the "F" word doesn't enhance your argument. Wicki only gives generic information Look up the CDC stats commissioned by Barry Hussein.

I wasn't trying to enhance my argument, I was showing an appropriate level of respect to the PMH sock. Also if you actually read the wiki article they say where the numbers came from and gave high, mid and low ends of the estimates, 55,000 being the lowest and 2.5 million being the highest.

Try again, NRA shill

According to the FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION, there are only 500 cases of self defense a year, most of them done by cops

 

[whitehall]

And most of them are by cops, or don;t involve guns at all

There are only about 500 cases of self defense in the United States a year



http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...ded_homicide_data_table_14_justifiable_homici de_by_weapon_law_enforcement_2009-2013.xls


These 500 self defense cases include:


* Those involving police officers, which makes up the vast majority of cases


* people whose lives were not in danger, but who simply killed somebody trying to take their purse of TV sets


* Cold blooded murders justified under "stand your ground" laws, such as the murders of Trayvon Martin or Michael Brown


*Cases NOT involving guns, but instead where self defense was carried out with a baseball bat or pepper spray


Meanwhile, 30,000 innocent people minding their own business are shot a year with guns. Key Gun Violence Statistics Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence


So let me ask you this: how does 500 cases of self defense a year, most of them by police officers or not involving guns at all, justify the ownership of guns for self defense, at the cost of 30,000 innocent lives a year?

You're a fucking liar.

Estimates over the number of defensive gun uses vary, depending on the study's population, criteria, time-period studied, and other factors. Higher end estimates by Kleck and Gertz show between 1 to 2.5 million DGUs in the United States each year.[1]:64–65[2][3] Low end estimates cited by Hemenway show approximately 55,000-80,000 such uses each year.[4][5] Middle estimates have estimated approximately 1 million DGU incidents in the United States

Defensive gun use - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Using the "F" word doesn't enhance your argument. Wicki only gives generic information Look up the CDC stats commissioned by Barry Hussein.

I wasn't trying to enhance my argument, I was showing an appropriate level of respect to the PMH sock. Also if you actually read the wiki article they say where the numbers came from and gave high, mid and low ends of the estimates, 55,000 being the lowest and 2.5 million being the highest.

Try again, NRA shill

According to the FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION, there are only 500 cases of self defense a year, most of them done by cops

Google CDC gun defense statistics.I was off by about 2 million. The CDC estimates that the use of firearms by Americans for defense might go as high as 3 million per year.

 

[Housepaint]

And most of them are by cops, or don;t involve guns at all

There are only about 500 cases of self defense in the United States a year



http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...ded_homicide_data_table_14_justifiable_homici de_by_weapon_law_enforcement_2009-2013.xls


These 500 self defense cases include:


* Those involving police officers, which makes up the vast majority of cases


* people whose lives were not in danger, but who simply killed somebody trying to take their purse of TV sets


* Cold blooded murders justified under "stand your ground" laws, such as the murders of Trayvon Martin or Michael Brown


*Cases NOT involving guns, but instead where self defense was carried out with a baseball bat or pepper spray


Meanwhile, 30,000 innocent people minding their own business are shot a year with guns. Key Gun Violence Statistics Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence


So let me ask you this: how does 500 cases of self defense a year, most of them by police officers or not involving guns at all, justify the ownership of guns for self defense, at the cost of 30,000 innocent lives a year?

You're a fucking liar.

Estimates over the number of defensive gun uses vary, depending on the study's population, criteria, time-period studied, and other factors. Higher end estimates by Kleck and Gertz show between 1 to 2.5 million DGUs in the United States each year.[1]:64–65[2][3] Low end estimates cited by Hemenway show approximately 55,000-80,000 such uses each year.[4][5] Middle estimates have estimated approximately 1 million DGU incidents in the United States

Defensive gun use - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Using the "F" word doesn't enhance your argument. Wicki only gives generic information Look up the CDC stats commissioned by Barry Hussein.

I wasn't trying to enhance my argument, I was showing an appropriate level of respect to the PMH sock. Also if you actually read the wiki article they say where the numbers came from and gave high, mid and low ends of the estimates, 55,000 being the lowest and 2.5 million being the highest.

Try again, NRA shill

According to the FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION, there are only 500 cases of self defense a year, most of them done by cops

Google CDC gun defense statistics.I was off by about 2 million. The CDC estimates that the use of firearms by Americans for defense might go as high as 3 million per year.

That's a godamn lie

 

[OKTexas]

And most of them are by cops, or don;t involve guns at all

There are only about 500 cases of self defense in the United States a year



http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...ded_homicide_data_table_14_justifiable_homici de_by_weapon_law_enforcement_2009-2013.xls


These 500 self defense cases include:


* Those involving police officers, which makes up the vast majority of cases


* people whose lives were not in danger, but who simply killed somebody trying to take their purse of TV sets


* Cold blooded murders justified under "stand your ground" laws, such as the murders of Trayvon Martin or Michael Brown


*Cases NOT involving guns, but instead where self defense was carried out with a baseball bat or pepper spray


Meanwhile, 30,000 innocent people minding their own business are shot a year with guns. Key Gun Violence Statistics Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence


So let me ask you this: how does 500 cases of self defense a year, most of them by police officers or not involving guns at all, justify the ownership of guns for self defense, at the cost of 30,000 innocent lives a year?

You're a fucking liar.

Estimates over the number of defensive gun uses vary, depending on the study's population, criteria, time-period studied, and other factors. Higher end estimates by Kleck and Gertz show between 1 to 2.5 million DGUs in the United States each year.[1]:64–65[2][3] Low end estimates cited by Hemenway show approximately 55,000-80,000 such uses each year.[4][5] Middle estimates have estimated approximately 1 million DGU incidents in the United States

Defensive gun use - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Using the "F" word doesn't enhance your argument. Wicki only gives generic information Look up the CDC stats commissioned by Barry Hussein.

I wasn't trying to enhance my argument, I was showing an appropriate level of respect to the PMH sock. Also if you actually read the wiki article they say where the numbers came from and gave high, mid and low ends of the estimates, 55,000 being the lowest and 2.5 million being the highest.

Try again, NRA shill

According to the FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION, there are only 500 cases of self defense a year, most of them done by cops

So according to your ignorant ass, someone has to die or there is NO self defensive use of a firearm?

 

[tyroneweaver]

And most of them are by cops, or don;t involve guns at all

There are only about 500 cases of self defense in the United States a year



http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...ded_homicide_data_table_14_justifiable_homici de_by_weapon_law_enforcement_2009-2013.xls


These 500 self defense cases include:


* Those involving police officers, which makes up the vast majority of cases


* people whose lives were not in danger, but who simply killed somebody trying to take their purse of TV sets


* Cold blooded murders justified under "stand your ground" laws, such as the murders of Trayvon Martin or Michael Brown


*Cases NOT involving guns, but instead where self defense was carried out with a baseball bat or pepper spray


Meanwhile, 30,000 innocent people minding their own business are shot a year with guns. Key Gun Violence Statistics Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence


So let me ask you this: how does 500 cases of self defense a year, most of them by police officers or not involving guns at all, justify the ownership of guns for self defense, at the cost of 30,000 innocent lives a year?

have the police shoot 500 black men and see how much your word,"only" means then
a person has a right to defend themselves if their life is threatened it's call the good samaritan law
a person that won't defend himself or his family must have an awfully low self image

 

[whitehall]

Look it up for God's sake. The FBI Uniform Crime report between 2007 and 2011 indicates that there were 600,000 reported gun confrontations. The National Crime and Victim survey estimates that firearms were used for defensive purposes from 60,000 to 116,000 per year.

 

[OKTexas]

Look it up for God's sake. The FBI Uniform Crime report between 2007 and 2011 indicates that there were 600,000 reported gun confrontations. The National Crime and Victim survey estimates that firearms were used for defensive purposes from 60,000 to 116,000 per year.

It's not here to have a serious discussion, it's trolling, nothing more.

 

[The Professor]

TO Housepaint:

First of all, the Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown cases have nothing to do with "stand your ground" laws. You really need to do a little research before you repeat that claim. Now let's get to the big issue: your claim that 30,000 innocent people are shot each year but guns are used only 500 times in self defense.

I have no idea where you you got the idea there are only 500 cases of guns being used for self defense each year. You should intuitively know that figure is laughably inaccurate. When I went to your link, I got the message “This page does not seem to exist.” Please give the source of the information you submitted to the members of USMB so we can all have a good laugh. Getting a lot closer to reality, here is a statistically significant study showing that guns were used for self defense 162,000 times each year:

“A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 0.5% of households had members who had used a gun for defense during a situation in which they thought someone 'almost certainly would have been killed' if they 'had not used a gun for protection.' Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 162,000 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all 'military service, police work, or work as a security guard.'"

Gun Control - Just Facts
You also claimed that 30,000 innocent people are shot each year (implying that 30,000 die each year by gun violence). Apparently you didn't read your own link. Your own link shows that of these roughly 30,000 people 11,315 people are murdered and 18,615 commit suicide. There is no way you can call those who commit suicide “innocent” since it is rather obvious they desired death (besides if guns were not available many of them would have found another way to end their lives).

It is clear that about 14 times more lives are saved by guns each year than are taken by criminals using a gun (162,400 compared to 11,315). Although it was not your intention, you presented compelling evidence that gun ownerships saves lives - a hell of a lot of lives - and only a fool would desire that people die solely to promote an anti-gun agenda.

Right???

 

[Pete7469]

TO Housepaint:

First of all, the Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown cases have nothing to do with "stand your ground" laws. You really need to do a little research before you repeat that claim. Now let's get to the big issue: your claim that 30,000 innocent people are shot each year but guns are used only 500 times in self defense.

I have no idea where you you got the idea there are only 500 cases of guns being used for self defense each year. You should intuitively know that figure is laughably inaccurate. When I went to your link, I got the message “This page does not seem to exist.” Please give the source of the information you submitted to the members of USMB so we can all have a good laugh. Getting a lot closer to reality, here is a statistically significant study showing that guns were used for self defense 162,000 times each year:

“A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 0.5% of households had members who had used a gun for defense during a situation in which they thought someone 'almost certainly would have been killed' if they 'had not used a gun for protection.' Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 162,000 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all 'military service, police work, or work as a security guard.'"

Gun Control - Just Facts
You also claimed that 30,000 innocent people are shot each year (implying that 30,000 die each year by gun violence). Apparently you didn't read your own link. Your own link shows that of these roughly 30,000 people 11,315 people are murdered and 18,615 commit suicide. There is no way you can call those who commit suicide “innocent” since it is rather obvious they desired death (besides if guns were not available many of them would have found another way to end their lives).

It is clear that about 14 times more lives are saved by guns each year than are taken by criminals using a gun (162,400 compared to 11,315). Although it was not your intention, you presented compelling evidence that gun ownerships saves lives - a hell of a lot of lives - and only a fool would desire that people die solely to promote an anti-gun agenda.

Right???

Good try, but bed wetting liberals can not be reasoned with, argued with or even beaten up in order to get them to think. They're drones. Insipid, mindless servile drones. The best thing a liberal will ever achieve will be fertilizer.

 

[The Rabbi]

I am happy to see the troll has gone the way of the dodo.
A self defense incident with a gun can be nothing more than drawing it and ending the confrontation that way. And yes that happens hundreds of thousands of times a year.

 

[LeftofLeft]

And most of them are by cops, or don;t involve guns at all

There are only about 500 cases of self defense in the United States a year



http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...ded_homicide_data_table_14_justifiable_homici de_by_weapon_law_enforcement_2009-2013.xls


These 500 self defense cases include:


* Those involving police officers, which makes up the vast majority of cases


* people whose lives were not in danger, but who simply killed somebody trying to take their purse of TV sets


* Cold blooded murders justified under "stand your ground" laws, such as the murders of Trayvon Martin or Michael Brown


*Cases NOT involving guns, but instead where self defense was carried out with a baseball bat or pepper spray


Meanwhile, 30,000 innocent people minding their own business are shot a year with guns. Key Gun Violence Statistics Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence


So let me ask you this: how does 500 cases of self defense a year, most of them by police officers or not involving guns at all, justify the ownership of guns for self defense, at the cost of 30,000 innocent lives a year?

Baltimore, Chicago, and Detroit have some the Nation's strictest legal gun ownership laws. Should the nation as a whole follow these jurisdictions as case studies towards more restrictive gun ownership laws?