why does the left unquestionably trust government?

[bigrebnc1775]

As a liberal I love my country without question. I look at our government as the finest in the world. I have yet to see any conservative on this thread stand up for our government. My original question still stands......Name a government on earth that you prefer to the United States of America

So the government did not lie, Iraq had WMD'S is that what you are saying

You are half right.

Iraq did not have WMD's in the numbers that ALL of the free world's intelligence agencies thought they had, based on the fact that they had used WMD's to kill thousands of their own people. Quoting incorrect intelligence data does not constitute a lie by the government.

The qustion was directed to the one who says he trust the government. I want to find out if he trusted the government when Bush was president.

 

[Intense]

Then why did you abandon Classic Liberalism, and place the Principles of it on the Alter of Progressive Sacrifice, oh Great One? There is no Principle you have not abandoned in favor of the flavor of the day, you misguided Marionette.

There is no such thing as Classic Liberalism. It is a term invented by Conservatives to excuse their resistance to basic human rights

Then why do modern day liberals want to entrap people and take away individual liberty's for the betterment of the collective?

RW is so caught up in his own dogma and propaganda, he has lost the ability to focus.

 

[rightwinger]

OH so those liberals owned no slaves? Those liberals only viewed White males over the age of 21 as being able to vote. Are you talking about liberals like that?

Now we are getting somewhere Reb!

Now that you are admitting that our founding fathers were liberals we can continue with your American History lesson

Freedom progresses in steps. The founding fathers had a hard enough time getting the basic freedoms of our Constitution approved. Keep in mind....they had Conservatives fighting their initiatives

So the best you could get in the 1780s was freedoms and voting rights extended to white males over 21. But liberals did not rest on their laurels. They continued to fight for the rights of slaves, then women, then native Americans. All the time resisted by conservatives of the day

You truly are a joke. Not one signature on the Constitution will be of someone who supported the king of England. Because that has been your claim in the past Conservatives supported the King and liberals didn't.

You know why there are no Conservative signatures on our Constitution? Because they opposed it. You know what Liberals did to Conservatives back then?

We tarred and feathered them

Oh.....yes

Those were the good ole days

 

[Full-Auto]

Yes indeed liberals wrote the Constitution and they are some of the most hallowed Liberals in the history of mankind

Can you imagine a society where all men are viewed as equal? Where someone who works the field has the same vote as the man who owns the field? Where men are not allowed to rule on the basis of their bloodline?

You did not get more liberal ideas than that.......note to bigreb...all those liberal concepts were opposed by conservatives of the day

Hell yes Liberals love and trust our government....That is why we made it

Then why did you abandon Classic Liberalism, and place the Principles of it on the Alter of Progressive Sacrifice, oh Great One? There is no Principle you have not abandoned in favor of the flavor of the day, you misguided Marionette.

There is no such thing as Classic Liberalism. It is a term invented by Conservatives to excuse their resistance to basic human rights

So there is no mistake about the content of Intense's replies.

YOU HAVE BEEN SCHOOLED, I sincerely hope you take note.

 

[Liberty]

Yes indeed liberals wrote the Constitution and they are some of the most hallowed Liberals in the history of mankind

Can you imagine a society where all men are viewed as equal? Where someone who works the field has the same vote as the man who owns the field? Where men are not allowed to rule on the basis of their bloodline?

You did not get more liberal ideas than that.......note to bigreb...all those liberal concepts were opposed by conservatives of the day

Hell yes Liberals love and trust our government....That is why we made it

Then why did you abandon Classic Liberalism, and place the Principles of it on the Alter of Progressive Sacrifice, oh Great One? There is no Principle you have not abandoned in favor of the flavor of the day, you misguided Marionette.

There is no such thing as Classic Liberalism. It is a term invented by Conservatives to excuse their resistance to basic human rights

LOL WHAT THE **** DID I JUST READ
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA

Thats like Akmadenajad saying the holocaust never happened. LOL.
I got a more important question...what the **** did RW go through in life to be indoctrinated so terribly? Whoever did it to him did a damn good job at turning him into a zombie...good ******* LORD. I feel sorry for this one like no other now...I used to have pity for TM but now RW takes the cake. Poor child.

classical liberalism is a concept that is 100% accepted by any political academic, lawyer, and philosopher of the modern and post modern era...

Tell me RW what university did you go to? I am in the MBA program at U o Colorado with a BA in History (I have no student debt, paid my own way suckers). Please, tell me you got a degree somewhere. I got to call them and ask WHAT THE **** ARE YOU TEACHING THESE KIDS? haha Or did you learn everything from Bashir, Fat Ed, and Madcow? I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Now we are getting somewhere Reb!

Now that you are admitting that our founding fathers were liberals we can continue with your American History lesson

Freedom progresses in steps. The founding fathers had a hard enough time getting the basic freedoms of our Constitution approved. Keep in mind....they had Conservatives fighting their initiatives

So the best you could get in the 1780s was freedoms and voting rights extended to white males over 21. But liberals did not rest on their laurels. They continued to fight for the rights of slaves, then women, then native Americans. All the time resisted by conservatives of the day

You truly are a joke. Not one signature on the Constitution will be of someone who supported the king of England. Because that has been your claim in the past Conservatives supported the King and liberals didn't.

You know why there are no Conservative signatures on our Constitution? Because they opposed it. You know what Liberals did to Conservatives back then?

We tarred and feathered them

Oh.....yes

Those were the good ole days

Trying to talk around your words will make you look like a monkey ******* a football.

Freedom progresses in steps. The founding fathers had a hard enough time getting the basic freedoms of our Constitution approved. Keep in mind....they had Conservatives fighting their initiatives

Why must you lie?

 

[Intense]

Now we are getting somewhere Reb!

Now that you are admitting that our founding fathers were liberals we can continue with your American History lesson

Freedom progresses in steps. The founding fathers had a hard enough time getting the basic freedoms of our Constitution approved. Keep in mind....they had Conservatives fighting their initiatives

So the best you could get in the 1780s was freedoms and voting rights extended to white males over 21. But liberals did not rest on their laurels. They continued to fight for the rights of slaves, then women, then native Americans. All the time resisted by conservatives of the day

You truly are a joke. Not one signature on the Constitution will be of someone who supported the king of England. Because that has been your claim in the past Conservatives supported the King and liberals didn't.

You know why there are no Conservative signatures on our Constitution? Because they opposed it. You know what Liberals did to Conservatives back then?

We tarred and feathered them

Oh.....yes

Those were the good ole days

You post like a Prostitute working a double shift during Fleet Week. Just saying. Do you really believe the shit you put out there? Where did you learn this crap, Comrade? Public School?

 

[rightwinger]

Conservatives cling to concepts like "classical liberalism" like liberalism is somehow frozen in time

Each generation faces it's own challenges. Those challenges are faced with either a liberal or conservative mindset. Each new challenge needs new solutions, new paradigms, new mindsets. To assume that if you do not maintain the same solutions as the founding fathers means you are not liberal is ludicrous

Almost as ludicrous as assuming 18th century solutions for 21st century problems

 

[Liberty]

Conservatives cling to concepts like "classical liberalism" like liberalism is somehow frozen in time

Each generation faces it's own challenges. Those challenges are faced with either a liberal or conservative mindset. Each new challenge needs new solutions, new paradigms, new mindsets. To assume that if you do not maintain the same solutions as the founding fathers means you are not liberal is ludicrous

Almost as ludicrous as assuming 18th century solutions for 21st century problems

dude seriously where did you go to school I really really want to know. I told you where I did, least you can do is return the courtesy. At the very least tell me what book you read to believe what you are saying. SOMETHING. FOR LOVE OF GOD BACK UP WHAT YOURE SAYING WITH SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can see why you turned off rep, really I can. You are a psychopath.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Conservatives cling to concepts like "classical liberalism" like liberalism is somehow frozen in time

Each generation faces it's own challenges. Those challenges are faced with either a liberal or conservative mindset. Each new challenge needs new solutions, new paradigms, new mindsets. To assume that if you do not maintain the same solutions as the founding fathers means you are not liberal is ludicrous

Almost as ludicrous as assuming 18th century solutions for 21st century problems

Back to your question that you have not answered yet. Did the government lie to us about Iraq? Did the government lie when it say Iraq had WMD's? Did you trust the government when Bush was president?

 

[Intense]

Conservatives cling to concepts like "classical liberalism" like liberalism is somehow frozen in time

Each generation faces it's own challenges. Those challenges are faced with either a liberal or conservative mindset. Each new challenge needs new solutions, new paradigms, new mindsets. To assume that if you do not maintain the same solutions as the founding fathers means you are not liberal is ludicrous

Almost as ludicrous as assuming 18th century solutions for 21st century problems

The Principles remain. The Solutions, based on Circumstance, are tailored to Circumstance, without abandoning Rule of Law or Due Process. As inconvenient as this may be for you, deal with it. Who died and made you God. As if you can just Dictate what must be done, you being so high and mighty, and all. What is ludicrous, is both your imagined self importance, and you thinking your reasoning is above the law, in a way that the law must always bend to your reasoning without challenge or question.

 

[Liberty]

I got a feeling RW isn't going to respond to anything I asked...haha.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I got a feeling RW isn't going to respond to anything I asked...haha.

He can't do his progressive dance when you pin him down with direct yes and no questions.

 

[Intense]

I got a feeling RW isn't going to respond to anything I asked...haha.

He's probably on the Pottie. Give him time.

 

[martybegan]

Yes indeed liberals wrote the Constitution and they are some of the most hallowed Liberals in the history of mankind

Can you imagine a society where all men are viewed as equal? Where someone who works the field has the same vote as the man who owns the field? Where men are not allowed to rule on the basis of their bloodline?

You did not get more liberal ideas than that.......note to bigreb...all those liberal concepts were opposed by conservatives of the day

Hell yes Liberals love and trust our government....That is why we made it

OH so those liberals owned no slaves? Those liberals only viewed White males over the age of 21 as being able to vote. Are you talking about liberals like that?

Now we are getting somewhere Reb!

Now that you are admitting that our founding fathers were liberals we can continue with your American History lesson

Freedom progresses in steps. The founding fathers had a hard enough time getting the basic freedoms of our Constitution approved. Keep in mind....they had Conservatives fighting their initiatives

So the best you could get in the 1780s was freedoms and voting rights extended to white males over 21. But liberals did not rest on their laurels. They continued to fight for the rights of slaves, then women, then native Americans. All the time resisted by conservatives of the day

Not all liberals. Liberalism, like conservatism, is relative. Once a certain point is reached, a portion of those percieved as liberal will then say "OK, we reached the right point." They then become fans of the status quo, i.e. conservative.

A good example is the civil rights movement of the 60's. Alot of people were behind removing the after affects of Jim Crow laws, and plessy v. ferguson. Once that happened however, and the push was made for things like affermative action and forced bussing, alot of the people who supported the civil rights movement stopped doing so. They did not support going back to the way things were, they just didnt support the new initatives.

Its similar to my view on the EPA. Yes, the EPA has done good, and improved air and water quality, but its getting to the point where it is forcing compaines to spend lots of money on little gain. Making someone spend 5 million to get NOx concentrations from 100 ppm to 30 ppm is a great idea. making them spend 50 million to go from 30ppm to 25 ppm, especially when that 5 ppm decrease has negligible benefits is something else entirely.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

OH so those liberals owned no slaves? Those liberals only viewed White males over the age of 21 as being able to vote. Are you talking about liberals like that?

Now we are getting somewhere Reb!

Now that you are admitting that our founding fathers were liberals we can continue with your American History lesson

Freedom progresses in steps. The founding fathers had a hard enough time getting the basic freedoms of our Constitution approved. Keep in mind....they had Conservatives fighting their initiatives

So the best you could get in the 1780s was freedoms and voting rights extended to white males over 21. But liberals did not rest on their laurels. They continued to fight for the rights of slaves, then women, then native Americans. All the time resisted by conservatives of the day

Not all liberals. Liberalism, like conservatism, is relative. Once a certain point is reached, a portion of those percieved as liberal will then say "OK, we reached the right point." They then become fans of the status quo, i.e. conservative.

A good example is the civil rights movement of the 60's. Alot of people were behind removing the after affects of Jim Crow laws, and plessy v. ferguson. Once that happened however, and the push was made for things like affermative action and forced bussing, alot of the people who supported the civil rights movement stopped doing so. They did not support going back to the way things were, they just didnt support the new initatives.

Its similar to my view on the EPA. Yes, the EPA has done good, and improved air and water quality, but its getting to the point where it is forcing compaines to spend lots of money on little gain. Making someone spend 5 million to get NOx concentrations from 100 ppm to 30 ppm is a great idea. making them spend 50 million to go from 30ppm to 25 ppm, especially when that 5 ppm decrease has negligible benefits is something else entirely.

Reasoning with a hack will become exhausting. But good post.

 

[rightwinger]

Conservatives cling to concepts like "classical liberalism" like liberalism is somehow frozen in time

Each generation faces it's own challenges. Those challenges are faced with either a liberal or conservative mindset. Each new challenge needs new solutions, new paradigms, new mindsets. To assume that if you do not maintain the same solutions as the founding fathers means you are not liberal is ludicrous

Almost as ludicrous as assuming 18th century solutions for 21st century problems

dude seriously where did you go to school I really really want to know. I told you where I did, least you can do is return the courtesy. At the very least tell me what book you read to believe what you are saying. SOMETHING. FOR LOVE OF GOD BACK UP WHAT YOURE SAYING WITH SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can see why you turned off rep, really I can. You are a psychopath.

School?

Where did I say I went to school?

Everything I know I learned in the sewer. But I can still debate circles around wing nut conservatives

 

[Full-Auto]

Conservatives cling to concepts like "classical liberalism" like liberalism is somehow frozen in time

Each generation faces it's own challenges. Those challenges are faced with either a liberal or conservative mindset. Each new challenge needs new solutions, new paradigms, new mindsets. To assume that if you do not maintain the same solutions as the founding fathers means you are not liberal is ludicrous

Almost as ludicrous as assuming 18th century solutions for 21st century problems

dude seriously where did you go to school I really really want to know. I told you where I did, least you can do is return the courtesy. At the very least tell me what book you read to believe what you are saying. SOMETHING. FOR LOVE OF GOD BACK UP WHAT YOURE SAYING WITH SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can see why you turned off rep, really I can. You are a psychopath.

School?

Where did I say I went to school?

Everything I know I learned in the sewer. But I can still debate circles around wing nut conservatives

Except in this circumstance.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Conservatives cling to concepts like "classical liberalism" like liberalism is somehow frozen in time

Each generation faces it's own challenges. Those challenges are faced with either a liberal or conservative mindset. Each new challenge needs new solutions, new paradigms, new mindsets. To assume that if you do not maintain the same solutions as the founding fathers means you are not liberal is ludicrous

Almost as ludicrous as assuming 18th century solutions for 21st century problems

dude seriously where did you go to school I really really want to know. I told you where I did, least you can do is return the courtesy. At the very least tell me what book you read to believe what you are saying. SOMETHING. FOR LOVE OF GOD BACK UP WHAT YOURE SAYING WITH SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can see why you turned off rep, really I can. You are a psychopath.

School?

Where did I say I went to school?

Everything I know I learned in the sewer. But I can still debate circles around wing nut conservatives

Back to your set of question's that you have not answered yet. Did the government lie to us about Iraq? Did the government lie when it say Iraq had WMD's? Did you trust the government when Bush was president?

 

[Intense]

OH so those liberals owned no slaves? Those liberals only viewed White males over the age of 21 as being able to vote. Are you talking about liberals like that?

Now we are getting somewhere Reb!

Now that you are admitting that our founding fathers were liberals we can continue with your American History lesson

Freedom progresses in steps. The founding fathers had a hard enough time getting the basic freedoms of our Constitution approved. Keep in mind....they had Conservatives fighting their initiatives

So the best you could get in the 1780s was freedoms and voting rights extended to white males over 21. But liberals did not rest on their laurels. They continued to fight for the rights of slaves, then women, then native Americans. All the time resisted by conservatives of the day

Not all liberals. Liberalism, like conservatism, is relative. Once a certain point is reached, a portion of those percieved as liberal will then say "OK, we reached the right point." They then become fans of the status quo, i.e. conservative.

A good example is the civil rights movement of the 60's. Alot of people were behind removing the after affects of Jim Crow laws, and plessy v. ferguson. Once that happened however, and the push was made for things like affermative action and forced bussing, alot of the people who supported the civil rights movement stopped doing so. They did not support going back to the way things were, they just didnt support the new initatives.

Its similar to my view on the EPA. Yes, the EPA has done good, and improved air and water quality, but its getting to the point where it is forcing compaines to spend lots of money on little gain. Making someone spend 5 million to get NOx concentrations from 100 ppm to 30 ppm is a great idea. making them spend 50 million to go from 30ppm to 25 ppm, especially when that 5 ppm decrease has negligible benefits is something else entirely.

With everything, there is a line that is crossed if not vigilant. Thus the need for checks and balances, and Enumerated Power. Liberalism and Progressivism are split. Progressivism claims everything is relative to what it dictates at the moment. That is a perversion, a corruption of Principle. Progressivism had in deed given both itself and Liberalism a bad name, by letting itself get Hi-Jacked by Self Serving Elitist Idiots.