Why does the Amtrak train still look like a 1950's body style design ?

[IsaacNewton]

Looking at the news about the latest crash of an Amtrak train, and I couldn't help thinking about how old that train looks in design. How about the high ground clearance for one thing I noticed? I mean come on America... Wow. Where is our sleek modern day safer designed trains already ? My condolences, thoughts and prayers go out to the families of the victims who died, and for the hurt people that were involved also in the crash. What a sad situation as always when see these sorts of reports.

It's so conservatives think they are seeing the future.

 

[EverCurious]

So the solution where ya're is to send the out of control vehicle back into on-coming traffic? That is a dumb plan if you ask me hahahaha

. Uh the out of control vehicles are already crossing over into the on coming sides by way of the open medians that I'm talking mainly about, and where the 4 lanes exist between the major cities in our state. The devider created by the new comutor train would actually prevent the crossing over. Now interstates have the concrete barriers, and they have a cable system in place, but most of your old 4 lanes between the city to city routes have nothing to prevent the cross overs. This would be prime proving grounds for the shuttles and the systems needed to make it all work. We have an old 4 lane with an open median between two major cities where I live. It's about an hour ride between the two, and there are many vehicle accidents along this journey. The trains may even begin to save lives by releiving congestion on some routes.

The whole reason that median between the lanes exists is to prevent head-on collisions, which are the most likely type to cause death. Median's that are free of obstacles increase the chance's that a driver is able to regain control of their vehicle; and thus avoid crashing into another vehicle. I just think directing the car back into traffic is a stupid idea, especially if an open median that vehicles /could/ be directed into exists.

While Alaska is not much of a candidate for a high speed rail line, I would also suggest that medians and shoulders are used for snow storage, without them, for example all the two lane non-divided streets and roads, one is forced to collect up all that snow and drive it somewhere. It costs Alaska a bloody fortune to pay for all the removal and storage from our local streets, one of the major summer projects up here is retrofitting all our roads so there is space to store snow on the road's side's. Neighborhoods are the most troublesome because people are want to park on the street, this leaves nowhere to put the snow without majorly impacting day to day life for folks; our "easement" is only 10' and over the years that easement has been used to make such streets wider (to accommodate street parkers) and sidewalks. Hauling snow is the biggest expense in our road maintenance budget.

 

[airplanemechanic]

As I stated, there were people just like these folks doubting we could do the Erie Canal, space program, etc… All it is are problems to be solved.

The space program never was profitable either.

You proved my point. Thanks.

 

[candycorn]

As I stated, there were people just like these folks doubting we could do the Erie Canal, space program, etc… All it is are problems to be solved.

The space program never was profitable either.

You proved my point. Thanks.

Wasn't designed to be. Yet it benefitted all mankind

 

[candycorn]

So the solution where ya're is to send the out of control vehicle back into on-coming traffic? That is a dumb plan if you ask me hahahaha

. Uh the out of control vehicles are already crossing over into the on coming sides by way of the open medians that I'm talking mainly about, and where the 4 lanes exist between the major cities in our state. The devider created by the new comutor train would actually prevent the crossing over. Now interstates have the concrete barriers, and they have a cable system in place, but most of your old 4 lanes between the city to city routes have nothing to prevent the cross overs. This would be prime proving grounds for the shuttles and the systems needed to make it all work. We have an old 4 lane with an open median between two major cities where I live. It's about an hour ride between the two, and there are many vehicle accidents along this journey. The trains may even begin to save lives by releiving congestion on some routes.

The whole reason that median between the lanes exists is to prevent head-on collisions, which are the most likely type to cause death. Median's that are free of obstacles increase the chance's that a driver is able to regain control of their vehicle; and thus avoid crashing into another vehicle. I just think directing the car back into traffic is a stupid idea, especially if an open median that vehicles /could/ be directed into exists.

While Alaska is not much of a candidate for a high speed rail line, I would also suggest that medians and shoulders are used for snow storage, without them, for example all the two lane non-divided streets and roads, one is forced to collect up all that snow and drive it somewhere. It costs Alaska a bloody fortune to pay for all the removal and storage from our local streets, one of the major summer projects up here is retrofitting all our roads so there is space to store snow on the road's side's. Neighborhoods are the most troublesome because people are want to park on the street, this leaves nowhere to put the snow without majorly impacting day to day life for folks; our "easement" is only 10' and over the years that easement has been used to make such streets wider (to accommodate street parkers) and sidewalks. Hauling snow is the biggest expense in our road maintenance budget.

You're taught to steer to the right to avoid head on collision; away from the medians

 

[EverCurious]

... So they actually teach you that when you lose control of your vehicle you should attempt to stay in traffic? That is bizarre imo... It is the complete opposite of up here, if you start sliding or losing control you aim for the ditches so you hopefully don't hit anyone else.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Looking at the news about the latest crash of an Amtrak train, and I couldn't help thinking about how old that train looks in design. How about the high ground clearance for one thing I noticed? I mean come on America... Wow. Where is our sleek modern day safer designed trains already ? My condolences, thoughts and prayers go out to the families of the victims who died, and for the hurt people that were involved also in the crash. What a sad situation as always when see these sorts of reports.

Because Amtrak doesn't make a profit and therefore has no money to invest in new equipment

 

[beagle9]

As I stated, there were people just like these folks doubting we could do the Erie Canal, space program, etc… All it is are problems to be solved.

The space program never was profitable either.

You proved my point. Thanks.

. Is education for the mind valuable ???? If so then your assessment of the space program is wrong big time. If there are things to be learned in many adventures and projects we embark upon, then many things have value in them, and so money isn't the only way of gauging profits now is it ?

 

[EverCurious]

Ah I was just reminded of San Francisco and their electric trolly car's which ride in the center of traffic lanes to add to the discussion.

As I suspected I found that: "The US Department of Transportation counts the cable cars among the mass transportation systems with the most accidents per year and vehicle mile in the US, with 126 accidents and 151 injured persons reported by the city during the 10 years until 2013.[7] Records obtained by the Associated Press in 2013 showed that over the course of three years, the city of San Francisco had paid almost $8 million to settle around four dozen legal claims relating to cable car accidents.[7]"

I will further research the 'causes' of these accidents if I have time later tonight, I did read that one of the accidents was due to a power line snapping and hitting a pedestrian which isn't exactly applicable, but I would figure that a mix of vehicular accidents with trolly's, in conjunction with train to vehicle accidents (with applicable causes) would properly assess the weight of safety in the proposal.

 

[beagle9]

... So they actually teach you that when you lose control of your vehicle you should attempt to stay in traffic? That is bizarre imo... It is the complete opposite of up here, if you start sliding or losing control you aim for the ditches so you hopefully don't hit anyone else.

. A person is to stay with the flow of traffic until that isn't possible anymore, then it matters not where you go, because you have lost control. Now it is true that if at all possible you look for the out, but in most cases there isn't the time to find it. The safety barriers that are put in place, are there to hopefully minimize and re-direct vehicles in a way that minimizes the risk involved when a crash occurs. These safety measures are always to be improved upon, and then s regardless of the improvements or modernizations in which are made to any system we choose to modernize or improve upon.

 

[EverCurious]

I'm afraid this idea/style is completely foreign to me. Up here we are taught that if an accident is possible, or eminent, you hit the ditch... In fact, we are taught to seek the road side to regain traction in a slide, or if there is an accident ahead (though the latter is mostly so emergency vehicles can get past.) The most dangerous roads in Alaska are the most dangerous /because/ they lack cleared center and shoulder spaces in which to avoid accidents. In my mind it is completely illogical to toss an out of control vehicle back into traffic flow, rather than directing their vehicle into the open space between the lanes of opposing traffic flow. Baffling to be honest.

 

[beagle9]

So the solution where ya're is to send the out of control vehicle back into on-coming traffic? That is a dumb plan if you ask me hahahaha

. Uh the out of control vehicles are already crossing over into the on coming sides by way of the open medians that I'm talking mainly about, and where the 4 lanes exist between the major cities in our state. The devider created by the new comutor train would actually prevent the crossing over. Now interstates have the concrete barriers, and they have a cable system in place, but most of your old 4 lanes between the city to city routes have nothing to prevent the cross overs. This would be prime proving grounds for the shuttles and the systems needed to make it all work. We have an old 4 lane with an open median between two major cities where I live. It's about an hour ride between the two, and there are many vehicle accidents along this journey. The trains may even begin to save lives by releiving congestion on some routes.

The whole reason that median between the lanes exists is to prevent head-on collisions, which are the most likely type to cause death. Median's that are free of obstacles increase the chance's that a driver is able to regain control of their vehicle; and thus avoid crashing into another vehicle. I just think directing the car back into traffic is a stupid idea, especially if an open median that vehicles /could/ be directed into exists.

While Alaska is not much of a candidate for a high speed rail line, I would also suggest that medians and shoulders are used for snow storage, without them, for example all the two lane non-divided streets and roads, one is forced to collect up all that snow and drive it somewhere. It costs Alaska a bloody fortune to pay for all the removal and storage from our local streets, one of the major summer projects up here is retrofitting all our roads so there is space to store snow on the road's side's. Neighborhoods are the most troublesome because people are want to park on the street, this leaves nowhere to put the snow without majorly impacting day to day life for folks; our "easement" is only 10' and over the years that easement has been used to make such streets wider (to accommodate street parkers) and sidewalks. Hauling snow is the biggest expense in our road maintenance budget.

. Who says that it applies everywhere ? Where I'm from there is perfect situations available to accommodate a transportation system being talked about. Ever go to these theme parks, and they have the shuttle trains that take people from one end of the park to the other end ? Many technologies are figured out in these settings in which give the visitors a grand experience to be raved and talked about in a positive light afterwards. What if an attitude of we can't, we can't was in Walt Disney thinking over those grand years eh ?

 

[beagle9]

I'm afraid this idea/style is completely foreign to me. Up here we are taught that if an accident is possible, or eminent, you hit the ditch... In fact, we are taught to seek the road side to regain traction in a slide, or if there is an accident ahead (though the latter is mostly so emergency vehicles can get past.) The most dangerous roads in Alaska are the most dangerous /because/ they lack cleared center and shoulder spaces in which to avoid accidents. In my mind it is completely illogical to toss an out of control vehicle back into traffic flow, rather than directing their vehicle into the open space between the lanes of opposing traffic flow. Baffling to be honest.

. Of course you would direct your vehicle to any safe spot whether it is staying in the direction of the traffic flow or if at all possible taking the vehicle to the side and out of the flow of traffic where possible. The rail bridge could be constructed as narrowly in width as possible, and it could be lined with barriers that are effective, and yet still leaving enough median on both sides of it in order to accommodate the emergency get out of the flow of traffic situation that is needed for the traffic that is traveling below. Of course the median has to be wide enough to accommodate the situation.

 

[EverCurious]

Well Disneyland/world isn't a very good example comparison; you're not talking about the safety issues of bullet trains and heavy traffic there.

As I understand your position, it is that bullet trains will be placed in the center median of highways, yes? What would happen to the bullet train when it hits a city? (You cannot be suggesting putting a bullet train through the centers of urban population? right?) If said train goes /around/ cities, then it could not really be used for transportation of say city workers - more along the lines of cross state travel yes? Who travel's from state to state? Tourists and freight? You'd have a system infrastructure similar to airports, shuttles and trucks to deliver the "product" to hotels or stores/wearhouse's within the urban centers. Then the question becomes, is this bullet train going to be faster or cheaper than airlines, or truckers/taxi drivers?

 

[Jarlaxle]

You're missing the regulation part. There is a regulation from the DOT that those medians have to be there, they also must be entirely clear of all obstacles, hell if the DOT had their way, there wouldn't even be support trusses for highway pass-overs in there (they bitch at our road designers a lot over that one because up here we have this black ice shit that you can't even tell is ice and all of a sudden you're in a 360, or if the wind through the pass hits you just right in a SUV it'll spin you.)

The truth is that concrete isn't as great as one might think. While it might stop a vehicle if it's made thick enough, it also kills the driver and usually passengers instantly. DOT makes us put guard rails to deflect vehicles into the open center median of our overpasses, else the overpass supports would take the full brunt and could possibly even be damaged enough to cause a failure in the bridge itself. Even so, if a fully loaded rig were to lose it and hit one of those supports, I have no doubt it could bring down the bridge...

It's not about being close minded, it's about understanding the regulations, and why those regulations exist.

Then explain the many highways where the "median" is simply a row of K-rails!

 

[Jarlaxle]

Ah I was just reminded of San Francisco and their electric trolly car's which ride in the center of traffic lanes to add to the discussion.

As I suspected I found that: "The US Department of Transportation counts the cable cars among the mass transportation systems with the most accidents per year and vehicle mile in the US, with 126 accidents and 151 injured persons reported by the city during the 10 years until 2013.[7] Records obtained by the Associated Press in 2013 showed that over the course of three years, the city of San Francisco had paid almost $8 million to settle around four dozen legal claims relating to cable car accidents.[7]"

I will further research the 'causes' of these accidents if I have time later tonight, I did read that one of the accidents was due to a power line snapping and hitting a pedestrian which isn't exactly applicable, but I would figure that a mix of vehicular accidents with trolly's, in conjunction with train to vehicle accidents (with applicable causes) would properly assess the weight of safety in the proposal.

Not just SF--some of Boston's Green Line trains run in the center of Huntington Avenue.

 

[Papageorgio]

What is the difference between a rail going along side the highway or in the median? Just north of Woodland, WA the train travels in the median. I realize the risks are a little greater but is it that much? Why can't we utilize the space along the highway?

 

[Papageorgio]

Ah I was just reminded of San Francisco and their electric trolly car's which ride in the center of traffic lanes to add to the discussion.

As I suspected I found that: "The US Department of Transportation counts the cable cars among the mass transportation systems with the most accidents per year and vehicle mile in the US, with 126 accidents and 151 injured persons reported by the city during the 10 years until 2013.[7] Records obtained by the Associated Press in 2013 showed that over the course of three years, the city of San Francisco had paid almost $8 million to settle around four dozen legal claims relating to cable car accidents.[7]"

I will further research the 'causes' of these accidents if I have time later tonight, I did read that one of the accidents was due to a power line snapping and hitting a pedestrian which isn't exactly applicable, but I would figure that a mix of vehicular accidents with trolly's, in conjunction with train to vehicle accidents (with applicable causes) would properly assess the weight of safety in the proposal.

Not just SF--some of Boston's Green Line trains run in the center of Huntington Avenue.

Portland, Oregon put in light rail through the downtown area, in the midst of cars, pedestrians and bicyclists.

 

[EverCurious]

It's in the stats of accidents and fatalities that occur on highways without the separation medians, it is why the DOT has the regulation of space between opposing lanes.

Even if we discount safety entirely and we're going to argue that we can somehow "acquire" the land necessary to build a bullet train, be that beside, or in the middle of, roadways one has to look at the benefit of it. What is the benefit of a bullet train to "society"? And are those "needs" already addressed by existing infrastructure, are we better off to put any money into upgrading that existing transportation network, or expand out into a historically financially loosing proposition? What are the benefits of a bullet train that cannot be met equally, if not better, by the existing systems?

 

[Papageorgio]

It's in the stats of accidents and fatalities that occur on highways without the separation medians, it is why the DOT has the regulation of space between opposing lanes.

Even if we discount safety entirely and we're going to argue that we can somehow "acquire" the land necessary to build a bullet train, be that beside, or in the middle of, roadways one has to look at the benefit of it. What is the benefit of a bullet train to "society"? And are those "needs" already addressed by existing infrastructure, are we better off to put any money into upgrading that existing transportation network, or expand out into a historically financially loosing proposition? What are the benefits of a bullet train that cannot be met equally, if not better, by the existing systems?

They aren't profitable.