Why Does Air Force One Cost $3.2 Billion Dollars?

[Vrenn]

Just a technical correction.

The VC-25B's that Boeing is working on under contract are not "new" airframes. They are late model 747-8's with low flight time and landings.

Boeing isn't building news 747's anymore.d

BTW ...

I think the US SHOULD accept the gift but it needs to come with no strings attached. Fly it to airshows for a few years as a sign of goodwill between the people of Qumar and the people of the United States. Let people tour it. Then in 5 years or so when everyone forgets about it, convert it from a Bordello In The Sky (I wouldn't want to walk around that thing with a black light) to a Troop Carrier that the Air Force can use for rapid troop movement in times of conflict.

Pair it up with a C-5 or C-17. The 747 carries the troops th C-5/C-17 carries their equipment.

Sounds like a win/win.

WW

During those 5 years, the DOD would have to pay millions to keep it in the air and to even just park it outside of the boneyard. The DOD isn't in the "Tourist" business. "Tour the world and kill something" is the motto not, let's fly a bunch of diplomats around in a feel good flight.

As for trying to use it as troop transport or cargo hauler, if we need more of that we buy more C-17s and C-5s.

C-5M Super costs just under 150 million brand new.
C-17 costs just over 200 million.

Meaning, for the cost of converting the Qatar 747-8 to military duty, you could buy two brand new C-5Ms or two C-17s and have money left over.

 

[Vrenn]

The Qatar "gift plane" was a head fake, not gonna happen. Boeing is behind schedule and over budget on the next AF1. This was imo to light a fire under their ass and get it done. Current ETC is 2026.

I think it's another, "Hey, look over here" routine to hide some other thing like the stupid Tax Bill. Well, it's stupid to normal people but makes great sense to billionaires.

 

[WorldWatcher]

During those 5 years, the DOD would have to pay millions to keep it in the air and to even just park it outside of the boneyard. The DOD isn't in the "Tourist" business. "Tour the world and kill something" is the motto not, let's fly a bunch of diplomats around in a feel good flight.

I said display it at air shows as a sign of good will.

And yea, the military is in the business of good will and using air shows as recruiting events.

As for trying to use it as troop transport or cargo hauler, if we need more of that we buy more C-17s and C-5s.

C-5M Super costs just under 150 million brand new.
C-17 costs just over 200 million.

Meaning, for the cost of converting the Qatar 747-8 to military duty, you could buy two brand new C-5Ms or two C-17s and have money left over.

A C-5 can carry about 270 troops in an air bus configuration. Meaning leaving a lot of their equipment on the ground. A 757-800 can be configured to about 500 people.

So marrying the two for a major movement is a win/win. Move the people on the 747-800 and their equipment on the C-5.

WW

 

[Vrenn]

I said display it at air shows as a sign of good will.

And yea, the military is in the business of good will and using air shows as recruiting events.

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A C-5 can carry about 270 troops in an air bus configuration. Meaning leaving a lot of their equipment on the ground. A 757-800 can be configured to about 500 people.

So marrying the two for a major movement is a win/win. Move the people on the 747-800 and their equipment on the C-5.

WW

Funny how you bring up the 757 but let's add the new 777 and 787 as well. And let's also bring up the A350 and 320. Both of these are being purchased to replace the aging 747 fleets across the world for VC type use. The reason the 747 was chosen in the first place, it was the first commercial carrier that had any real legs. Not so anymore. Quatar has 6 of thee 747-8s that they tried to sell and now are having to give them away. No one is taking them. I disagree, they would make a wonderful "Last Chance" Diner.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Funny how you bring up the 757 but let's add the new 777 and 787 as well. And let's also bring up the A350 and 320. Both of these are being purchased to replace the aging 747 fleets across the world for VC type use. The reason the 747 was chosen in the first place, it was the first commercial carrier that had any real legs. Not so anymore. Quatar has 6 of thee 747-8s that they tried to sell and now are having to give them away. No one is taking them. I disagree, they would make a wonderful "Last Chance" Diner.

Apologies, obviously 757-800 was a typo of 747-800.

WW

 

[Vrenn]

Apologies, obviously 757-800 was a typo of 747-800.

WW

More like a Freudian Slip.

 

[Woodznutz]

No problemo as long as the conversion contracts are given to American companies. Those engineers likely have huge student loans to pay off.

 

[kyzr]

How about people like me that have suspended my involvement until the sanity returns to my Grand Ole Party. And downright begging for his own personal 747-8 and wanting to stick it to us once again. This is another case of him seeing just how far he can cross over the lines and getting swatted.

The Defense Department really doesn't have a use for this aged ***** wagon on wings. If it did go to them, I imagine that it's going for a one way flight to DM.

1. Sanity has returned to the GOP, its called "populism" where we win elections now instead of losing them, duh.
2. I agree that the "gift" 747 needs to be donated to the Trump library "as-is". It makes no sense wasting time and $2b upgrading it when the two new ones will be ready at the same time, if not sooner. Congress needs to tell Trump "no money" to upgrade.

 

[Vrenn]

1. Sanity has returned to the GOP, its called "populism" where we win elections now instead of losing them, duh.

Is that what you would call the Government of Italy in 1926? Why, that almost sounds clean.

2. I agree that the "gift" 747 needs to be donated to the Trump library "as-is". It makes no sense wasting time and $2b upgrading it when the two new ones will be ready at the same time, if not sooner. Congress needs to tell Trump "no money" to upgrade.

There is a tradition that the AF1s when retired go to the president's library who was in the office at the time. AND it's kept in good operating condition including the required flights to make sure it can still do the job. The 2 AF1s (707s) at Reagan's library are the backups to the 2 747 AF1. I have a feeling that when both 747 AF1s can retire, they will go to whomever is in office at the time to be parked at their Prez Library and they might retire the 707s at that point like they did the Super Connies.

 

[WorldWatcher]

There is a tradition that the AF1s when retired go to the president's library who was in the office at the time.

SAM27000

It was used by Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and George W. Bush - there isn't really "at the time" since AF1's bridge presidents.

AND it's kept in good operating condition including the required flights to make sure it can still do the job.

It may be in "good" condition because it's used for public display.

But it's not flyable as the aircraft was decommissioned in 2001.

Since then when has it flown?

The 2 AF1s (707s) at Reagan's library are the backups to the 2 747 AF1.

There aren't two 707's at the Reagan Library.

SAM 27000 is there on static display in California.

SAM 26000 is at the Air Force Museum in Ohio.

I have a feeling that when both 747 AF1s can retire, they will go to whomever is in office at the time to be parked at their Prez Library and they might retire the 707s at that point like they did the Super Connies.

 

[kyzr]

Is that what you would call the Government of Italy in 1926? Why, that almost sounds clean.

No clue how Italy in 1926 responds to my post:
"Sanity has returned to the GOP, its called "populism" where we win elections now instead of losing them, duh."

There is a tradition that the AF1s when retired go to the president's library who was in the office at the time. AND it's kept in good operating condition including the required flights to make sure it can still do the job. The 2 AF1s (707s) at Reagan's library are the backups to the 2 747 AF1. I have a feeling that when both 747 AF1s can retire, they will go to whomever is in office at the time to be parked at their Prez Library and they might retire the 707s at that point like they did the Super Connies.

The two old 747s that Biden and Trump flew would both be available for presidential libraries.
That leaves the Qatari "gift" 747 to either go to a library (Trump's) or to be used by the AF.
I can't see more than one 747 at any presidential library.
Biden probably won't have a library, just maybe a garage with papers and "autopens".

 

[WorldWatcher]

That leaves the Qatari "gift" 747 to either go to a library (Trump's) or to be used by the AF.

Those aren't the only options.

Turn it into a C-747 and use it as a cargo plan for troop and material movements. Strip out the whorehouse in the sky furnishings. It would be a lot cheaper.



WW

 

[kyzr]

Those aren't the only options.
Turn it into a C-747 and use it as a cargo plan for troop and material movements. Strip out the whorehouse in the sky furnishings. It would be a lot cheaper. WW

True, one friend of mine flew 747s for FedEx.

 

[Woodznutz]

The original contract was 3.2 billion in today's dollars.
The Orange Cheeto said that was too high and worked out a money saving that ended up costing 3.9 million dollars. And his fit costs Boeing billions in stock price.



Now, let's look at the "gift" 747-8. The gift would be a 400 million bird. Sounds great until you look at the whole picture.

The cost of conversion to a real AF1 would cost near 2 billion. Okay, once you get that done, it's more than a year later and you still end up with an old AF1 that is 17 years old and still won't be as good as the new one from Boeing. Qatar has been trying to unload this by trying to give it away. The only taker was the Orange Cheeto who has no idea that the cost of operation of the 747-8 costs as much per hour to operate than a F-15 or F-16 fighter.

Why the Qataris are happy to dump their 747 on Trump

The president may be thirsting for a new four-engine jumbo jet, but many governments and royal families are unloading their fuel-guzzling palaces in the sky.

www.forbes.com.au

 

[martybegan]

They went for the leather interior and the upgraded sound system.

Fine corinthian leather.

 

[MarathonMike]

One of the few Trump decisions I have disagreed with was to accept the Qatari "gift" of a jumbo jet. They are ultra-rich and play both sides of the fence very well. Hamas leaders for example have been living in luxury in Qatar while their forces have turned Gaza into Hell on Hearth.