Why do you want more government in your life?

[DiamondDave]

Fact.

With a few exceptions of its own power grubbing, the primary function of modern government is to enforce the will and meet the demands of the corporations that have bought and own it.

So then if this is true, the left complains about this and wants to empower government to actually expand into even more areas such as healthcare, cap and trade, etc??

Yes. We want the collective power of all of us to replace the decision-making machine that benefits a few by exploiting the masses.

Well.. at least someone can admit that they wish to have the erosion of freedom and the expansion of governmental power and control.. in the name of collectivism

 

[Cuyo]

So then if this is true, the left complains about this and wants to empower government to actually expand into even more areas such as healthcare, cap and trade, etc??

Yes. We want the collective power of all of us to replace the decision-making machine that benefits a few by exploiting the masses.

Well.. at least someone can admit that they wish to have the erosion of freedom and the expansion of governmental power and control.. in the name of collectivism

Get real dude. It's interesting to see you so adamantly defend a broken system that threw you overboard 30 years ago. Blissful ignorance peppered with anger.

 

[The Rabbi]

It was a clear delineation based on the Declaration of Independence phrase "We hold these truths to be self evident".
The constitution was constructed, debated, amended then finally ratified by the individual states (state in this instance meaning independent countries associated under what was a loose confederation).
The Constitution wasn't ratified until June 21, 1788 when, finally, all the states accepted the definition and separation of power between what became the federal government and each state.

So the source of these rights is "self evident"?? They aren't self evident to me. So they aren't self evident at all.
You'll need a better answer than to quote the Declaration.

Quoting the declaration is quoting the founding fathers. I am simply reiterating their strongly held beliefs on this matter. Not to appear nasty but honestly I don't care if you don't see it as self evident or not, that's not my fault or my problem, I didn't teach the class you were in. I base my knowledge of this subject on the founders writings to include the Declaration and the Constitution much of which was covered in college civics classes.

OK. So you admit that these rights are anything but self-evident. They exist merely as an ipse dixit,because the Founders thought they existed (or at least said they thought they existed). I don't know how strongly every single one of them held that belief. I do know that without it they didn't have much of a case for secession from Britain.
Can we admit there is no such thing as "natural rights" that come from the Creator or anything else?

 

[G.T.]

Get real dude. It's interesting to see you so adamantly defend a broken system that threw you overboard 30 years ago. Blissful ignorance peppered with anger.

30-years ago.

Governments are fucked when they're born. America's a cool idea, but when you get into the specifics and put everything into practice, there's never been a sucessful Governing idea.

 

[DiamondDave]

Yes. We want the collective power of all of us to replace the decision-making machine that benefits a few by exploiting the masses.

Well.. at least someone can admit that they wish to have the erosion of freedom and the expansion of governmental power and control.. in the name of collectivism

Get real dude. It's interesting to see you so adamantly defend a broken system that threw you overboard 30 years ago. Blissful ignorance peppered with anger.

I am real.. as I can readily and willingly accept the positives AND negatives that come with freedoms and liberty... and I will sooner take that over a governmental nanny state

 

[jillian]

So then if this is true, the left complains about this and wants to empower government to actually expand into even more areas such as healthcare, cap and trade, etc??

Yes. We want the collective power of all of us to replace the decision-making machine that benefits a few by exploiting the masses.

Well.. at least someone can admit that they wish to have the erosion of freedom and the expansion of governmental power and control.. in the name of collectivism

i wouldn't describe what he wants that way, but it does seem pretty close to the 'we the people' rant.

 

[The Rabbi]

Well.. at least someone can admit that they wish to have the erosion of freedom and the expansion of governmental power and control.. in the name of collectivism

Get real dude. It's interesting to see you so adamantly defend a broken system that threw you overboard 30 years ago. Blissful ignorance peppered with anger.

I am real.. as I can readily and willingly accept the positives AND negatives that come with freedoms and liberty... and I will sooner take that over a governmental nanny state

Liberals talk about things like freedom but they actually recoil at teh idea that some people might just fail at it. We can't have that. So no one can exercise their freedom because some people might get hurt.

 

[Cuyo]

Well.. at least someone can admit that they wish to have the erosion of freedom and the expansion of governmental power and control.. in the name of collectivism

Get real dude. It's interesting to see you so adamantly defend a broken system that threw you overboard 30 years ago. Blissful ignorance peppered with anger.

I am real.. as I can readily and willingly accept the positives AND negatives that come with freedoms and liberty... and I will sooner take that over a governmental nanny state

Perhaps you should move to Rwanda then? No government interference in your life whatsoever. Of course, there are bands of barbarians who can rob, rape, beat and kill you and your family without fear of consequence, but hey, that's just a negative that comes with freedom, no?

 

[NYcarbineer]

I just want to know why? Why don't you want more freedom to choose what you want to do?

Do you really think government will do everything better than you would?

I just don't get it.

What do you want to do that you can't?

Make us a list.

 

[Ringel05]

So the source of these rights is "self evident"?? They aren't self evident to me. So they aren't self evident at all.
You'll need a better answer than to quote the Declaration.

Quoting the declaration is quoting the founding fathers. I am simply reiterating their strongly held beliefs on this matter. Not to appear nasty but honestly I don't care if you don't see it as self evident or not, that's not my fault or my problem, I didn't teach the class you were in. I base my knowledge of this subject on the founders writings to include the Declaration and the Constitution much of which was covered in college civics classes.

OK. So you admit that these rights are anything but self-evident. They exist merely as an ipse dixit,because the Founders thought they existed (or at least said they thought they existed). I don't know how strongly every single one of them held that belief. I do know that without it they didn't have much of a case for secession from Britain.
Can we admit there is no such thing as "natural rights" that come from the Creator or anything else?

You can if you wish. No skin off of my nose.
As for the rest it seems to have worked out fairly well.
Oh, and I admit nothing concerning you claims.

 

[Care4all]

Don't forget the large consortiums representing masses of individuals. The NEA, NRA, union lobbies, etc.

Also true, I forgot those. But I don't think they compare with the scale of the funds that the big corp can put forward.

Because there is nothing more evil that a successful corporation. We should all live in fear of private citizens doing well in business.

We have absolutely nothing to fear about the government taking over every aspect of our lives.

how about these businesses become successful ON THEIR OWN without big gvt backing their rear ends?

THAT would make big gvt a heck of a lot smaller....

why should i through taxes, pay for some of big corps profits?

 

[The Rabbi]

I just want to know why? Why don't you want more freedom to choose what you want to do?

Do you really think government will do everything better than you would?

I just don't get it.

What do you want to do that you can't?

Make us a list.

I want to sell guns without fear the ATF is going to sting me and take my license or put me in jail.
I want to manufacture ammunition without worrying the state department is going to impose an enormous fee as an exporter, even though I am not exporting anything
I want to travel without being hassled for my ID and treated like a criminal

 

[The Rabbi]

Quoting the declaration is quoting the founding fathers. I am simply reiterating their strongly held beliefs on this matter. Not to appear nasty but honestly I don't care if you don't see it as self evident or not, that's not my fault or my problem, I didn't teach the class you were in. I base my knowledge of this subject on the founders writings to include the Declaration and the Constitution much of which was covered in college civics classes.

OK. So you admit that these rights are anything but self-evident. They exist merely as an ipse dixit,because the Founders thought they existed (or at least said they thought they existed). I don't know how strongly every single one of them held that belief. I do know that without it they didn't have much of a case for secession from Britain.
Can we admit there is no such thing as "natural rights" that come from the Creator or anything else?

You can if you wish. No skin off of my nose.
As for the rest it seems to have worked out fairly well.
Oh, and I admit nothing concerning you claims.

Well you havent defended your position. Are you conceding the argument?

 

[DiamondDave]

Yes. We want the collective power of all of us to replace the decision-making machine that benefits a few by exploiting the masses.

Well.. at least someone can admit that they wish to have the erosion of freedom and the expansion of governmental power and control.. in the name of collectivism

i wouldn't describe what he wants that way, but it does seem pretty close to the 'we the people' rant.

Ahhh... but it is precisely why we have a constitution and a republic.. to ensure that we the people (in terms of the 50.001%) do not trample on the freedoms, rights, and liberties of the minority (i.e. the other 49.999%) in the name of collectivism or majority rule

I do not believe in any government mandated exploitation.. whether that be by or for the powerful business or the entitlement junkie or anything in between.... no selective equality... but the equal treatment of all with the freedom to succeed or fail as we can , keeping government out of most aspects of our everyday lives

 

[NYcarbineer]

I just want to know why? Why don't you want more freedom to choose what you want to do?

Do you really think government will do everything better than you would?

I just don't get it.

Because it's easier than taking personal responsibility.

There is someone to blame for your own shortcomings and failures.

So it's my shortcoming that cause me to prefer to pay town taxes and have government employees maintain the roads in my town than for me to go out there and do it myself? It's my shortcoming to prefer that the town snowplow clears my road instead me going out there with my snowblower?
It's my shortcoming to want government employees to come and investigate a theft from my property? I'm a failure because I don't want to try to track down the perpetrator myself?
I'm a failure because I think public schools are a better way of giving everyone an opportunity for an education than to throw the whole system away and let everyone fend for themselves trying to get their kids educated privately?

really?

 

[The Rabbi]

Also true, I forgot those. But I don't think they compare with the scale of the funds that the big corp can put forward.

Because there is nothing more evil that a successful corporation. We should all live in fear of private citizens doing well in business.

We have absolutely nothing to fear about the government taking over every aspect of our lives.

how about these businesses become successful ON THEIR OWN without big gvt backing their rear ends?

THAT would make big gvt a heck of a lot smaller....

why should i through taxes, pay for some of big corps profits?

Whicbh businesses are you talking about? How are you paying for corporate profits through your taxes?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Anyone here live in a zoned community where they tell you just about everything you can and can't do with your property?

And who tells you that? The local government, the township, the city, the zoning board.

Just a reminder to all of you who think the federal government is the big villain when it comes to trampling your freedoms. Just a reminder to all of you who think your state and local governments having more power is the answer.

 

[The Rabbi]

Anyone here live in a zoned community where they tell you just about everything you can and can't do with your property?

And who tells you that? The local government, the township, the city, the zoning board.

Just a reminder to all of you who think the federal government is the big villain when it comes to trampling your freedoms. Just a reminder to all of you who think your state and local governments having more power is the answer.

You make a decent point.
But it is easier to change government at the local level than the national level.

 

[Care4all]

Because there is nothing more evil that a successful corporation. We should all live in fear of private citizens doing well in business.

We have absolutely nothing to fear about the government taking over every aspect of our lives.

how about these businesses become successful ON THEIR OWN without big gvt backing their rear ends?

THAT would make big gvt a heck of a lot smaller....

why should i through taxes, pay for some of big corps profits?

Whicbh businesses are you talking about? How are you paying for corporate profits through your taxes?

through Corporate and Agricultural welfare..... we spend BILLIONS on it!

edit

and through corporate bail outs, and through tax credits and loopholes, ALL with our tax monies, FOR THEM and for their profits.

 

[Newby]

I just want to know why? Why don't you want more freedom to choose what you want to do?

Do you really think government will do everything better than you would?

I just don't get it.

Because it's easier than taking personal responsibility.

There is someone to blame for your own shortcomings and failures.

So it's my shortcoming that cause me to prefer to pay town taxes and have government employees maintain the roads in my town than for me to go out there and do it myself? It's my shortcoming to prefer that the town snowplow clears my road instead me going out there with my snowblower?
It's my shortcoming to want government employees to come and investigate a theft from my property? I'm a failure because I don't want to try to track down the perpetrator myself?
I'm a failure because I think public schools are a better way of giving everyone an opportunity for an education than to throw the whole system away and let everyone fend for themselves trying to get their kids educated privately?

really?

What a coincidence that all your points are exactly the things a government is supposed to do, and you completely and conveniently skipped all of the social entitlements and programs that would ruin your point. Way to go.