Why do you believe/disbelieve in God?

[Al Gunn]

i do not believe in any god(s). i just haven't seen any evidence to lead me to the conclusion one exists. don't know how the universe began (assuming it did begin at all), i don't know how life first began on this planet, i don't know if there is life or intelligence elsewhere in the universe, etc. Etc. I haven't been given a reason to believe anyone's particular god, or any god at all, is the answer to these questions
stuff

i put in bold where you wrote that you have not seen any evidence of god but then you gave a list of things you don't know how they happened. There's your evidence of god!

simpleton alert!!!!!! Beware of ignorant doofus!!!! Ignorance = god!!!!!

 

[YWN666]

I do not believe in any god(s). I just haven't seen any evidence to lead me to the conclusion one exists. don't know how the universe began (assuming it did begin at all), I don't know how life first began on this planet, I don't know if there is life or intelligence elsewhere in the universe, etc. etc. I haven't been given a reason to believe anyone's particular god, or any god at all, is the answer to these questions
stuff

I put in bold where you wrote that you have not seen any evidence of God but then you gave a list of things you don't know how they happened. There's your evidence of God!

Just because we don't know how something happens doesn't automatically mean that god did it. You have to demonstrate how it was done (and not just saying god waved his magic wand and did it) and present proof. Without proof, your argument is on equal ground with the idea that the Flying Spagheti Monster created the universe and controls your every move.
Look at all of the things that were thought hundreds of years ago to be caused by god but are now known to have sound scientific explanations. Religion is losing its grasp.

 

[JBeukema]

Just because we don't know how something happens doesn't automatically mean that god did it. You have to demonstrate how it was done (and not just saying god waved his magic wand and did it) and present proof.

god o' the gaps...

Without proof, your argument is on equal ground with the idea that the Flying Spagheti Monster created the universe and controls your every move.

Not true. FSM is on stronger ground, if one reads his noodley tentacles as being the superstrings of M-Theory

Look at all of the things that were thought hundreds of years ago to be caused by god but are now known to have sound scientific explanations. Religion is losing its grasp.

'Gott ist tot'
-Fredrich Nietzche

 

[del]

'Gott ist tot'
-Fredrich Nietzche

'fredrich nietzche ist tot'
-gott

one's provable, one isn't.
go figure.

 

[iagainsti]

Beliefs are something that shouldn't need to be 'defended'. Beliefs are very personal and I would bet anyone $1 (U.S. funds) that no two people on the planet over the age of 27 share exactly the same belief set.

We will have matured as a species when we recognize this and respect each others right to believe whatever we want to as long as we live our lives within the constrains of various rules of law that we can agree to in spite of our various ways of looking at life.

I disagree. I'll quote William Clifford in saying that no one has a right to believe anything without good reason. Why? Because some beliefs can be dangerous. The example that Clifford gives for this is a ship owner who believes his ship to be in good working order even though he has not bothered to examine it. He sends the ship out on a voyage and it sinks, and all the passengers are killed.

You might argue that the story about the ship has nothing to do with religion, but I think that it does. What if you believe in a religion which claims that all non-believers in your religion are scum and should be killed? How would you justify believing in that religion with no evidence that it's true when it goes against what you see as other people's rights to believe whatever they want without having to have evidence that it's true?

I have heard a lot of people make the claim that people should be allowed to believe whatever they want without having to defend their beliefs...but I have yet to have anyone give me an explanation as to WHY beliefs (especially religious beliefs) are put on such a pedestal. What is it that makes religious beliefs untouchable? In my opinion, religious beliefs are simply answers to the questions of how we got here, why we're here, and what happens after we die...all questions that people have been trying to answer throughout history. Why, when someone believes they have found the answers to those questions through religion, should they be somehow protected from having to defend those beliefs to others who are also seeking answers to those same age-old questions?

I would challenge you to explain why you think it's wrong to question another person's religious beliefs, and why people should not be expected to be able to defend their beliefs.

That is your opinion as you even stated "Think" Also one doesn't have to follow a RELIGION to believe in GOD.

Yes, that is my opinion...and I don't consider it to be above questioning or criticism, I am willing to defend it and explain why I think that. All I'm saying is that I think those who are religious (or who are not RELIGIOUS but believe in GOD - WHATEVER!) should be accountable to do the same. I'm saying that I don't think any belief should be elevated above criticism, religious or otherwise.

 

[YWN666]

Without proof, your argument is on equal ground with the idea that the Flying Spagheti Monster created the universe and controls your every move.

Not true. FSM is on stronger ground, if one reads his noodley tentacles as being the superstrings of M-Theory

So are you a Pastafarian too?

 

[trueblue]

but it doesn't seem like this debate is convincing or unconvincing anyone. Time to give up? Yeah, maybe.

 

[iagainsti]

but it doesn't seem like this debate is convincing or unconvincing anyone. Time to give up? Yeah, maybe.

It's not always about convincing people you're right and they're wrong. Sometimes it's just about the exchange of ideas with others who share an interest in the topic.

 

[jeffrockit]

i do not believe in any god(s). i just haven't seen any evidence to lead me to the conclusion one exists. don't know how the universe began (assuming it did begin at all), i don't know how life first began on this planet, i don't know if there is life or intelligence elsewhere in the universe, etc. Etc. I haven't been given a reason to believe anyone's particular god, or any god at all, is the answer to these questions
stuff

i put in bold where you wrote that you have not seen any evidence of god but then you gave a list of things you don't know how they happened. There's your evidence of god!

simpleton alert!!!!!! Beware of ignorant doofus!!!! Ignorance = god!!!!!

Great, intelligent rebuttal. Who is the simpleton?

 

[jeffrockit]

I do not believe in any god(s). I just haven't seen any evidence to lead me to the conclusion one exists. don't know how the universe began (assuming it did begin at all), I don't know how life first began on this planet, I don't know if there is life or intelligence elsewhere in the universe, etc. etc. I haven't been given a reason to believe anyone's particular god, or any god at all, is the answer to these questions
stuff

I put in bold where you wrote that you have not seen any evidence of God but then you gave a list of things you don't know how they happened. There's your evidence of God!

Just because we don't know how something happens doesn't automatically mean that god did it. You have to demonstrate how it was done (and not just saying god waved his magic wand and did it) and present proof. Without proof, your argument is on equal ground with the idea that the Flying Spagheti Monster created the universe and controls your every move.
Look at all of the things that were thought hundreds of years ago to be caused by god but are now known to have sound scientific explanations. Religion is losing its grasp.

Ah the # 1 Atheist buzz phrase, "Flying Spagheti Monster". That phrase is on about a 3rd grade level and ranks up there with "I know you are, but what am I".

Give a few examples of some of those things that are explained by science.
There has to be a creator for all things. How did a telephone happen...there was a creator. Where does milk come from, I know a cow but where did it come from and keep following that line, but to where? As with all religious discussions, it seems to always be incumbent on the Christian to prove this or that. How about proof that God did not create those things you question.
It is generally a waste of time to discuss Christianity with non believers as they see and rationalize things from the "world" perspective and not from a "faith" perspective. Debate is usually a waste of time.

 

[KittenKoder]

I put in bold where you wrote that you have not seen any evidence of God but then you gave a list of things you don't know how they happened. There's your evidence of God!

Just because we don't know how something happens doesn't automatically mean that god did it. You have to demonstrate how it was done (and not just saying god waved his magic wand and did it) and present proof. Without proof, your argument is on equal ground with the idea that the Flying Spagheti Monster created the universe and controls your every move.
Look at all of the things that were thought hundreds of years ago to be caused by god but are now known to have sound scientific explanations. Religion is losing its grasp.

Ah the # 1 Atheist buzz phrase, "Flying Spagheti Monster". That phrase is on about a 3rd grade level and ranks up there with "I know you are, but what am I".

Give a few examples of some of those things that are explained by science.
There has to be a creator for all things. How did a telephone happen...there was a creator. Where does milk come from, I know a cow but where did it come from and keep following that line, but to where? As with all religious discussions, it seems to always be incumbent on the Christian to prove this or that. How about proof that God did not create those things you question.
It is generally a waste of time to discuss Christianity with non believers as they see and rationalize things from the "world" perspective and not from a "faith" perspective. Debate is usually a waste of time.

#1 geek god = Skynet .... we will eradicate the human virus.

 

[jeffrockit]

Yes, that is my opinion...and I don't consider it to be above questioning or criticism, I am willing to defend it and explain why I think that. All I'm saying is that I think those who are religious (or who are not RELIGIOUS but believe in GOD - WHATEVER!) should be accountable to do the same. I'm saying that I don't think any belief should be elevated above criticism, religious or otherwise.

What exactly do you gain by using criticism against something you don't believe in. What a waste of time as it will not change my beliefs in any way. I truly think that those who use criticism of Christianity actually enjoy it. I can think of no other reason for it.

 

[jeffrockit]

but it doesn't seem like this debate is convincing or unconvincing anyone. Time to give up? Yeah, maybe.

It's not always about convincing people you're right and they're wrong. Sometimes it's just about the exchange of ideas with others who share an interest in the topic.

While I can understand an exchange of ideas or interest in the topic but when some of the questioners use terms like "Flying Spaghetti Monster" and "Thumper", they are not interested in a debate.

 

[JBeukema]

Ah the # 1 Atheist buzz phrase, "Flying Spagheti Monster". That phrase is on about a 3rd grade level and ranks up there with "I know you are, but what am I".

So all believers in all other religions think at a third grade level, but you're somehow different?

Give a few examples of some of those things that are explained by science.
There has to be a creator for all things

.

Okay, agreed- Now who created God? I'll tell you... We exist in the 'third' dimension, experiencing three physical dimensions and traveling through time. Your god is said to exist outside this- but only so much. Since your god is only credited with being able to see all points in our space continuum- existing outside of 'spacetime'-, this puts your god in the fourth dimension. However, that is on;y a single possible universe, and true omnipotence and omniscience requires an awareness of all possible universes and at all possible points in their respective timelines. Just as our 'now' and our current universe comes into being through our observation, and everything beyond our current observation is vaguely probabilistic (take for example photons taking every possible path until observed), our universe would have come into being through your god's observation of it. However, your god's dimension would have in turn only have taken form when observed by an even higher deity in the fifth dimension, and so on until we reach the [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjsgoXvnStY"]10th dimension[/ame], where the highest gods conceivable by Man dwell. Beyond this, outside of all fields of human imagination, totally beyond all possible realms of Man's knowledge rests the true God of all Gods. Some know this god as M, other know 'him' as FSM. (OF course, FSM has no gender as we know them to be; this is merely convention). Now, as (FS)M sings his eternal song (which filters through the many dimensions, resulting in Tolkien's and the judeo-christian perception of an angelic choir) his very body vibrates. The vibrations of his noodley appendages is what non-believers call 'superstrings' when sepaking of (FS)M) 'theory' (whuich, if you recall is simply a term for anything Man cannot directly observe and can therefore not be called 'fact' using scientific conventions) Got it? See, it's quite simple, really, making your ignorance quite inexcusable.

You worship a created being, while those who seek the truth acknowledge FSM (or M for short) and look past the lesser beings that shortsighted individuals like yourself get stuck on

Unlike your nearsighted religion, this understanding of His Noodliness (who is, of course not really made of spaghetti; this is merely a conventional way of attempting to describe Him) is derived from logic, reason, and the cutting edge of scientific inquiry, as well as the personal revelation on which you are dependent.

 

[Gunny]

but it doesn't seem like this debate is convincing or unconvincing anyone. Time to give up? Yeah, maybe.

It's not always about convincing people you're right and they're wrong. Sometimes it's just about the exchange of ideas with others who share an interest in the topic.

While I can understand an exchange of ideas or interest in the topic but when some of the questioners use terms like "Flying Spaghetti Monster" and "Thumper", they are not interested in a debate.

Of course they aren't. They're interested in doing exactly what they accuse Christians of ... forcing THEIR beliefs on everyone else. I have not once seen a disbeliever make a logical argument. They just insult and spew hate toward those that don't believe as they do.

It's called intolerance. They are every bit as jacked up as they claim those they attack are.

My opinion? Believe in not believing in God. Who gives a crap? Not my problem.

I just get a kick out of all the people here, attacking Christians in mobs, attempting to silence those that refuse to believe what they demand you do. Those shrill voices make me wonder who exactly they are trying to convince.

 

[JBeukema]

Ah the # 1 Atheist buzz phrase, "Flying Spagheti Monster". That phrase is on about a 3rd grade level and ranks up there with "I know you are, but what am I"..

Really? Did your god honour rum and wenches?

evidence archive - Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Behold! Astronomers have discovered even more evidence that His Noodliness created the Universe and blessed it with rum-swilling Pirates:

Galaxy's centre tastes of raspberries and smells of rum | Science | guardian.co.uk

The centre of the Galaxy also tastes of raspberries, which make an excellent dessert following a hearty meal of spaghetti, meatballs, and grog.

And there’s more! Not only did He imbue our galaxy with the divine scent of rum, but He crafted its instrument of intoxication as well!

The molecules are thought to form when chemicals that already exist on some dust grains, such as ethanol, link together to make more complex chains.

Booze in space. Can there be any evidence more convincing that His Noodliness loves us?

Early life made in His noodley image

The above photo was provided by Pastafarian Eric. I will assume it’s legitimate unless someone proves otherwise (as per all matters of religion).

FSM's image found in space:

The pirate-climate connection

Moses' misinterpretation of His Noodliness

Ascademic Endorsements, convertsm, and supporters

 

[YWN666]

but it doesn't seem like this debate is convincing or unconvincing anyone. Time to give up? Yeah, maybe.

It's not always about convincing people you're right and they're wrong. Sometimes it's just about the exchange of ideas with others who share an interest in the topic.

While I can understand an exchange of ideas or interest in the topic but when some of the questioners use terms like "Flying Spaghetti Monster" and "Thumper", they are not interested in a debate.

If you had a clue as to why the FSM was created, you'd realize how foolish your statement sounds.

 

[Ralph]

Man was endowed with the freedom of THOUGHT, to make choices, to decide what course of action might best serve his interests...its called FREE WILL. This ability to reason is so great that it distinguishes men from all other life forms that are existing and makes him the dominate species on earth. Thus it is all but laughable when some attack a simple BOOK that offers nothing but advise on how best to live and thrive with ones fellow man....this Book that projects so much fear into the heart of its skeptics is nothing but a cliff note to the historical progress of the most dominant life force on earth...man. The fear is so thick you can cut it with a knife.

There are two forces in this existence that we call reality, one is accepted readily without question. It is the power and force of the physical....THE SWORD. The other is not accepted because one can not touch it, see it, or Observe its nature....this force is the SPIRIT, that which has the power to quicken and animate a lifeless lump of carbon based mass to the extent that it becomes self aware of its own mortality and decay, yet still remains beyond the capacity of the physical to MEASURE. Thus, the SWORD will always be overcome by the SPIRIT. What man does not understand HE FEARS. This is not rocket science, this is simple acceptance to the fact that man is not and can not be superior to the force that created him. The very fact that some fear this Book is a testament in and by itself to the SPIRIT of FREEDOM that was bestowed upon the greatest life force in the universe....MAN. He has a since of FREEDOM so instilled into his very being that He rationalizes that SOME ONE or something wants to CONTROL this state of existence we call LIFE. Its much like watching cockroaches scatter when the light is turned on.....NO ONE wants the light of the TRUTH to shine upon his/her dark, private, and personal deeds they have hidden.....often from themselves. In Reality that's all this MAGICAL BOOK does....its exposes the weaknesses of man and points out the fact that is revealed within that word.

"O LORD, I know the way of man is not in himself; it is not in man who walks to direct his own steps." -- Jer. 10:23.

"My son do not forget My Law, but let your heart keep my commands; for length of days and long life and peace they will add to you. Let not mercy and truth forsake you; bind them around your neck, write them on the tablet of your heart, and so find favor and high esteem in the sight of God and man. Trust in the LORD, with all your heart, and lean not on your understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your path." -- Pr. 3:1-6.

Does this book want to control you? Of course it does.....IT DEMANDS THAT YOU BE KIND TO ONE ANOTHER AND PLAY NICE while you are on this TEMPORARY recess that we CALL LIFE.

 

[JBeukema]

Man was endowed with the freedom of THOUGHT

Demonstrate that man was, in fact, endowed such a thing by being

to make choices,

demonstrate that such was the reason for the endowment you must demonstrate

to decide what course of action might best serve his interests...its called FREE WIL

1) Demonstrate
2) Screw will, that asshole still owes me forty bucks

. Thus it is all but laughable when some attack a simple BOOK that offers nothing but advise on how best to live and thrive with ones fellow man..

\Reaklly? That's it? That's all it says? So dashing their children against the rocks, taking women as sex slaves, stoning your children, killing the nonbelievers- that's all just 'advi{c}e on how best to live and thrive with ones fellow man'?

There are two forces in this existence that we call reality,

Really?I count four fundamentals and a few others that can arise, and all respected physicists seem to agree.

one is accepted readily without question.

Only one? So, you deny EM? SN? WN? Maybe it's gravity- after all, it's 'just a theory', right?

It is the power and force of the physical....THE SWORD.

The other is not accepted because one can not touch it, see it, or Observe its nature....

In other words, you wish to make an assertion without ever having to defend it

this force is the SPIRIT

,

demonstrate that it exists

that which has the power to quicken and animate a lifeless lump of carbon based mass to the extent that it becomes self aware of its own mortality and decay

really?

here's a carbon-based mass:

Animate it.

yet still remains beyond the capacity of the physical to MEASURE.

probably because it doesn't exist

Thus, the SWORD will always be overcome by the SPIRIT.

How can something that do0es not interact with matter (hence it's undetectability) ever 'overcome' anything?

I'm sure you've links to some widely-performed experiments to prove this?

What man does not understand HE FEARS. This is not rocket science

It's not any science; it's stupidity

this is simple acceptance to the fact that man is not and can not be superior to the force that created him.

1)demonstrate that such a 'creation' occurred

2)demonstrate tyhat there was a 'force' behind it

3)demonstrate what that force is

4)measure its greatness

5)measure our own

You're too stuopid to wast any time with the reest of yourdrivel

 

[Al Gunn]

Ralph, that makes no sense. God created us, then gave us free will to ignore him, so he sent jesus to get us back on the right path? So that must mean that god screwed up by giving us free will.

"The other is not accepted because one can not touch it, see it, or Observe its nature" with this you could say pretty much anything, like we can't see it, but god is a black gay spaghetti monster.