Why do the God-haters persist?

[daws101]

I know you desperately want to believe that but littering your posts with repeated falsehoods won't make those falsehoods true.

As I already pointed out to you, civilizations have risen and fallen with and without gawds. Most of humanity has come and gone without the invention of your gods. So quite clearly, your gawds or other conceptions of gawds are not a requirement for success or failure of civilizations or cultures. This is why you cannot identify a single culture or civilization that "collapsed" specifically because they didn't have gods.

Many cultures and civilizations have created images and icons that represent occurrences in nature as a way of explaining things they didn't understand but that is not implying they "spiritually connect", that they worshipped gods of "spiritual nature", or "intrinsically connected, were "intrinsically spiritually connected" or any other goofy cliche' you dump in most threads.

If we examine your nonsensical claim that cultures and civilizations without "spiritual nature", or "intrinsically connected, or "intrinsically spiritually connected" is a guarantee they will collapse without it, you need to identify why all the cultures/civilizations you insist had "spiritual nature", or "intrinsically connected, or "intrinsically spiritually connected" eventually failed anyway.

So tell us then, oh sage of "spiritual nature", "intrinsically connected, and "intrinsically spiritually connected", why did the Roman, Greek, Mayan civilizations fail when they had more gawds, "spiritual nature", were, "intrinsically connected, and were "intrinsically spiritually connected"?

Why didn't their gawds, "spiritual nature", "intrinsic connection", and "intrinsically spiritual connection" saved them?

You should try reading the entire post instead of knee-jerk reacting like some kind of autobot. I clearly stated: Nobody has claimed spirituality is a guarantee a civilization will survive.

This is why you cannot identify a single culture or civilization that "collapsed" specifically because they didn't have gods.

There are none that have ever risen to any great prominence without spirituality. It's kind of a 'prerequisite' for human civilization. There are numerous examples of civilizations which started with spirituality and tried to abandon it then failed miserably. The great Roman Empire collapsed when they perverted their spirituality into nationalism. The Soviet Union nearly collapsed because of state mandated Atheism and banning of religion, until they realized the people needed it and reformed. China is another example, and there are countless others. Societies and civilizations don't thrive very well without human spirituality, they never have and never will.

That was quite a waffle.


Here it is again: can you identify a single culture or civilization that "collapsed" specifically because they didn't have gods?

Atlantis?

 

[sealybobo]

HOW MUCH MONEY IN TAXES DO TRIBES OF PEOPLE IN THE JUNGLES ALL OVER THE WORLD PAY? NO!!! KNOWLEDGE OF GOD IS PROGRAMED INTO HUMAN DNA!!! ONLY the fools deny that tgruth!

Is that why for hundreds of years we sent missionaries all around the world to spread the word/lie?

 

[Boss]

false! there is nothing outside nature god is either part of nature or imaginary.

Sheer ignorance of the universe. There was a Big Bang... when it happened, it created time and therefore, physical reality. Nothing physical caused it because nothing physical existed. There was no time space for anything physical to exist in. Without time, there is no physical reality or existence, it means nothing. Time is created by the expanding physical universe.

God is part of nature, God is spiritual nature. Not physical. God can't be physical nature because God created physical nature and things can't create themselves... logical impossibility. Your ignorance is in presuming there is nothing other than physical nature, when we know this can't be true because something had to cause the creation of physical nature for it to exist.

 

[daws101]

HOW MUCH MONEY IN TAXES DO TRIBES OF PEOPLE IN THE JUNGLES ALL OVER THE WORLD PAY? NO!!! KNOWLEDGE OF GOD IS PROGRAMED INTO HUMAN DNA!!! ONLY the fools deny that tgruth!

Is that why for hundreds of years we sent missionaries all around the world to spread the word/lie?

yes ,the problem is the missionaries either didn't know it was false or did not care...

 

[GISMYS]

HOW MUCH MONEY IN TAXES DO TRIBES OF PEOPLE IN THE JUNGLES ALL OVER THE WORLD PAY? NO!!! KNOWLEDGE OF GOD IS PROGRAMED INTO HUMAN DNA!!! ONLY the fools deny that tgruth!

Is that why for hundreds of years we sent missionaries all around the world to spread the word/lie?

MANKIND LEFT ON HIS OWN ARE OPEN TO DEMON INSPIRED FALSE gods,they need to be given TRUTH!!!

 

[daws101]

false! there is nothing outside nature god is either part of nature or imaginary.

Sheer ignorance of the universe. There was a Big Bang... when it happened, it created time and therefore, physical reality. Nothing physical caused it because nothing physical existed. There was no time space for anything physical to exist in. Without time, there is no physical reality or existence, it means nothing. Time is created by the expanding physical universe.

God is part of nature, God is spiritual nature. Not physical. God can't be physical nature because God created physical nature and things can't create themselves... logical impossibility. Your ignorance is in presuming there is nothing other than physical nature, when we know this can't be true because something had to cause the creation of physical nature for it to exist.

 

[Boss]

Here it is again: can you identify a single culture or civilization that "collapsed" specifically because they didn't have gods?

And here it is again, airhead... There has been NO culture or civilization devoid of spirituality. It's difficult to give you an example of something collapsing that never has existed to begin with.

 

[emilynghiem]

That was quite a waffle.

Here it is again: can you identify a single culture or civilization that "collapsed" specifically because they didn't have gods?

Why is there an assumption equating spirituality with gods?

Religions are languages used to represent concepts and relationships, like other laws.

The cultures we KNOW ABOUT are from whatever they left behind in terms of symbols or relics to COMMUNICATE about their culture.

So these relics, religions or symbols FOLLOW whatever they experiences or expressed in life as REFLECTIONS and means of COMMUNICATION. But these do not CREATE spirituality.

I don't think this is a CAUSE/EFFECT relationship.

I think you are talking about things that CORRELATE.

Humanity and cultures involve RELATIONSHIPS so religions express those relationships.
So what.

Humans still have tribal issues, and we are still working through our RELATIONSHIP issues today. This is all a continuous process.

Hollie I just think you call the human process something different other than spiritual.
Do you believe in a collective human process of learning from the past and making progress?

Is "Collective" or "global/societal" a better term to use for this level of humanity?

 

[daws101]

HOW MUCH MONEY IN TAXES DO TRIBES OF PEOPLE IN THE JUNGLES ALL OVER THE WORLD PAY? NO!!! KNOWLEDGE OF GOD IS PROGRAMED INTO HUMAN DNA!!! ONLY the fools deny that tgruth!

Is that why for hundreds of years we sent missionaries all around the world to spread the word/lie?

MANKIND LEFT ON HIS OWN ARE OPEN TO DEMON INSPIRED FALSE gods,they need to be given TRUTH!!!

there is just as much evidence for demons as there is for god..
that is to say none.....

 

[sealybobo]

You can't say that god has a non physical component because how can you prove it?

by definition of what God is used to represent.

if God means the highest level of All things, all knowledge, all energy, all events, all laws,
and/or the creation/cause of all these things,
then this goes beyond man's finite physical perception into a higher level beyond what
we can PROVE is in our IMMEDIATE physical world.

The minute something is beyond our IMMEDIATE empirical perception,
it is outside the physical level and on a level of abstract perception.

Well just don't expect any thinking person to swallow what you are trying to sell reverend.

A particular standard of evidence is required to prove any claim. Since god’s existence is an extraordinary claim, perhaps the most extraordinary claim, proving it requires equally extraordinary evidence.

The standard of evidence required to prove a god’s existence is immediately more than any personal anecdote, witness testimony, ancient book or reported miracle – none of which can be considered extraordinarily reliable. The human mind is also highly susceptible to being fooled and even fooling itself. One could be suffering from an hallucination or a form of undiagnosed schizophrenia, hysteria or psychosis, ruling out even our own senses as reliable evidence gathering mechanisms in this case. As strange as it sounds, misunderstood aliens might even be attempting to interact with us using extremely advanced technology. In fact, reality itself could be a computer simulation which we unknowingly inhabit.

Every conceivable argument, every imaginable piece of evidence for god is not without some fatal flaw or more likely explanation which precludes it from being used as definitive proof.

There is, however, a simple answer to the question what proof would an atheist accept and the answer is: God is what it would take to convince an atheist. An omniscient god would know the exact standard of evidence required to convince any atheist of its existence and, being omnipotent, it would also be able to immediately produce this evidence. If it wanted to, a god could conceivably change the brain chemistry of any individual in order to compel them to believe. It could even restructure the entire universe in such a way as to make non-belief impossible.

In short, a god actually proving its own existence is what would convince any atheist of said god’s existence.

 

[emilynghiem]

God by being infinite, ultimate, and absolute would exceed any definition by man
much less any proof.

What we could "prove" is a statistical correlation of various MEANINGS or APPLICATIONS
that God "represents"

For example, statistically we can "prove" that people who believe in God and believe
in Universal Truth can align and reconcile their communications and language/terminology,
or people who believe in God and Universal Wisdom,
or God and Life, Love, supreme Good will, etc. can ALIGN their values/principles
and communicate/reconcile across religious or secular terms.

So we may not be able to prove what God is in full,
but we could prove that people AGREE that the CONCEPTS we MEAN by God align
and are pointing to the same source, even if the whole collective is beyond us.

You can't say that god has a non physical component because how can you prove it?

by definition of what God is used to represent.

if God means the highest level of All things, all knowledge, all energy, all events, all laws,
and/or the creation/cause of all these things,
then this goes beyond man's finite physical perception into a higher level beyond what
we can PROVE is in our IMMEDIATE physical world.

The minute something is beyond our IMMEDIATE empirical perception,
it is outside the physical level and on a level of abstract perception.

Well just don't expect any thinking person to swallow what you are trying to sell reverend.

A particular standard of evidence is required to prove any claim. Since god’s existence is an extraordinary claim, perhaps the most extraordinary claim, proving it requires equally extraordinary evidence.

The standard of evidence required to prove a god’s existence is immediately more than any personal anecdote, witness testimony, ancient book or reported miracle – none of which can be considered extraordinarily reliable. The human mind is also highly susceptible to being fooled and even fooling itself. One could be suffering from an hallucination or a form of undiagnosed schizophrenia, hysteria or psychosis, ruling out even our own senses as reliable evidence gathering mechanisms in this case. As strange as it sounds, misunderstood aliens might even be attempting to interact with us using extremely advanced technology. In fact, reality itself could be a computer simulation which we unknowingly inhabit.

Every conceivable argument, every imaginable piece of evidence for god is not without some fatal flaw or more likely explanation which precludes it from being used as definitive proof.

There is, however, a simple answer to the question what proof would an atheist accept and the answer is: God is what it would take to convince an atheist. An omniscient god would know the exact standard of evidence required to convince any atheist of its existence and, being omnipotent, it would also be able to immediately produce this evidence. If it wanted to, a god could conceivably change the brain chemistry of any individual in order to compel them to believe. It could even restructure the entire universe in such a way as to make non-belief impossible.

In short, a god actually proving its own existence is what would convince any atheist of said god’s existence.

 

[sealybobo]

HOW MUCH MONEY IN TAXES DO TRIBES OF PEOPLE IN THE JUNGLES ALL OVER THE WORLD PAY? NO!!! KNOWLEDGE OF GOD IS PROGRAMED INTO HUMAN DNA!!! ONLY the fools deny that tgruth!

Is that why for hundreds of years we sent missionaries all around the world to spread the word/lie?

MANKIND LEFT ON HIS OWN ARE OPEN TO DEMON INSPIRED FALSE gods,they need to be given TRUTH!!!

You contradict yourself. First you say, "If left on his own man is open to demon inspired false gods" but then earlier you said knowledge of god is programmed into our dna.

Make up your mind. And by the way, if god existed and were all that you say he is, he could program us so that doubt isn't even an option. Why does he hide and make me have to rely on pedophiles and fools like you?

So I have to believe flawed man or burn in hell forever? Fuck him and you bitch.

 

[daws101]

Here it is again: can you identify a single culture or civilization that "collapsed" specifically because they didn't have gods?

And here it is again, airhead... There has been NO culture or civilization devoid of spirituality. It's difficult to give you an example of something collapsing that never has existed to begin with.

hold on! your definition of spirituality is razor thin.
you are ignoring the elephant in the room.. more cultures have collapsed OR been destroyed BECAUSE OF SPIRTUALITY than all the other causes combined.
since no culture has ever been spirituality free.. there is no way to know if it would collapse or not.

 

[sealybobo]

God by being infinite, ultimate, and absolute would exceed any definition by man
much less any proof.

What we could "prove" is a statistical correlation of various MEANINGS or APPLICATIONS
that God "represents"

For example, statistically we can "prove" that people who believe in God and believe
in Universal Truth can align and reconcile their communications and language/terminology,
or people who believe in God and Universal Wisdom,
or God and Life, Love, supreme Good will, etc. can ALIGN their values/principles
and communicate/reconcile across religious or secular terms.

So we may not be able to prove what God is in full,
but we could prove that people AGREE that the CONCEPTS we MEAN by God align
and are pointing to the same source, even if the whole collective is beyond us.

by definition of what God is used to represent.

if God means the highest level of All things, all knowledge, all energy, all events, all laws,
and/or the creation/cause of all these things,
then this goes beyond man's finite physical perception into a higher level beyond what
we can PROVE is in our IMMEDIATE physical world.

The minute something is beyond our IMMEDIATE empirical perception,
it is outside the physical level and on a level of abstract perception.

Well just don't expect any thinking person to swallow what you are trying to sell reverend.

A particular standard of evidence is required to prove any claim. Since god’s existence is an extraordinary claim, perhaps the most extraordinary claim, proving it requires equally extraordinary evidence.

The standard of evidence required to prove a god’s existence is immediately more than any personal anecdote, witness testimony, ancient book or reported miracle – none of which can be considered extraordinarily reliable. The human mind is also highly susceptible to being fooled and even fooling itself. One could be suffering from an hallucination or a form of undiagnosed schizophrenia, hysteria or psychosis, ruling out even our own senses as reliable evidence gathering mechanisms in this case. As strange as it sounds, misunderstood aliens might even be attempting to interact with us using extremely advanced technology. In fact, reality itself could be a computer simulation which we unknowingly inhabit.

Every conceivable argument, every imaginable piece of evidence for god is not without some fatal flaw or more likely explanation which precludes it from being used as definitive proof.

There is, however, a simple answer to the question what proof would an atheist accept and the answer is: God is what it would take to convince an atheist. An omniscient god would know the exact standard of evidence required to convince any atheist of its existence and, being omnipotent, it would also be able to immediately produce this evidence. If it wanted to, a god could conceivably change the brain chemistry of any individual in order to compel them to believe. It could even restructure the entire universe in such a way as to make non-belief impossible.

In short, a god actually proving its own existence is what would convince any atheist of said god’s existence.

Any god that was infinite, ultimate, and absolute would not have to hide.

 

[GISMYS]

God by being infinite, ultimate, and absolute would exceed any definition by man
much less any proof.

What we could "prove" is a statistical correlation of various MEANINGS or APPLICATIONS
that God "represents"

For example, statistically we can "prove" that people who believe in God and believe
in Universal Truth can align and reconcile their communications and language/terminology,
or people who believe in God and Universal Wisdom,
or God and Life, Love, supreme Good will, etc. can ALIGN their values/principles
and communicate/reconcile across religious or secular terms.

So we may not be able to prove what God is in full,
but we could prove that people AGREE that the CONCEPTS we MEAN by God align
and are pointing to the same source, even if the whole collective is beyond us.

Well just don't expect any thinking person to swallow what you are trying to sell reverend.

A particular standard of evidence is required to prove any claim. Since god’s existence is an extraordinary claim, perhaps the most extraordinary claim, proving it requires equally extraordinary evidence.

The standard of evidence required to prove a god’s existence is immediately more than any personal anecdote, witness testimony, ancient book or reported miracle – none of which can be considered extraordinarily reliable. The human mind is also highly susceptible to being fooled and even fooling itself. One could be suffering from an hallucination or a form of undiagnosed schizophrenia, hysteria or psychosis, ruling out even our own senses as reliable evidence gathering mechanisms in this case. As strange as it sounds, misunderstood aliens might even be attempting to interact with us using extremely advanced technology. In fact, reality itself could be a computer simulation which we unknowingly inhabit.

Every conceivable argument, every imaginable piece of evidence for god is not without some fatal flaw or more likely explanation which precludes it from being used as definitive proof.

There is, however, a simple answer to the question what proof would an atheist accept and the answer is: God is what it would take to convince an atheist. An omniscient god would know the exact standard of evidence required to convince any atheist of its existence and, being omnipotent, it would also be able to immediately produce this evidence. If it wanted to, a god could conceivably change the brain chemistry of any individual in order to compel them to believe. It could even restructure the entire universe in such a way as to make non-belief impossible.

In short, a god actually proving its own existence is what would convince any atheist of said god’s existence.

Any god that was infinite, ultimate, and absolute would not have to hide.

YOU HAVE THE PROOF GOD IS REAL!!!==For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse. ROMANS 1:18

 

[emilynghiem]

Is that why for hundreds of years we sent missionaries all around the world to spread the word/lie?

MANKIND LEFT ON HIS OWN ARE OPEN TO DEMON INSPIRED FALSE gods,they need to be given TRUTH!!!

there is just as much evidence for demons as there is for god..
that is to say none.....

Have you ever witnessed people who have demon voices or entities speaking or operating through them?

Scott Peck did not believe in these either, until he studied schizophrenic patients firsthand, where the demon voices verbally attacked him using knowledge that did not come from his patients. he could not prove these were spiritual entities because that is beyond physical.
But he could show that the steps of sickness, treatment and cure "correlated" or followed a set process that COULD Be quantified and measured, similar to diagnosing and treating stages of cancer by observing the symptoms and changes.

Whether or not the demons were real or delusional constructs in the patients,
the patients still responded to treatment, so the therapy to remove the "demonic infestations" still worked. You can read Peck's observations in his books on "People of the Lie" and "Glimpses of the Devil" where these patients "changed his mind" and convinced him that there were demonic and satanic forces operating as independent entities.

He couldn't prove it but he believed it after two interviews with patients with demonic voices.

 

[sealybobo]

Here it is again: can you identify a single culture or civilization that "collapsed" specifically because they didn't have gods?

And here it is again, airhead... There has been NO culture or civilization devoid of spirituality. It's difficult to give you an example of something collapsing that never has existed to begin with.

hold on! your definition of spirituality is razor thin.
you are ignoring the elephant in the room.. more cultures have collapsed OR been destroyed BECAUSE OF SPIRTUALITY than all the other causes combined.
since no culture has ever been spirituality free.. there is no way to know if it would collapse or not.

Atheism is correlated with better scientific literacy, lower poverty rates, higher literacy rates, higher average incomes, less violence, lower divorce rates, lower teen pregnancy rates, lower STD infection rates, lower crime rates and lower homicide rates. It correlates highly with the well-being of individuals and societies by almost every possible measure.

Studies on happiness outside of predominantly religious countries (eg. the United States) find little to no correlation between happiness and religious belief.

The only reason religious people are happier is the social bonding they get at church. That and ignorance is bliss.

 

[GISMYS]

And here it is again, airhead... There has been NO culture or civilization devoid of spirituality. It's difficult to give you an example of something collapsing that never has existed to begin with.

hold on! your definition of spirituality is razor thin.
you are ignoring the elephant in the room.. more cultures have collapsed OR been destroyed BECAUSE OF SPIRTUALITY than all the other causes combined.
since no culture has ever been spirituality free.. there is no way to know if it would collapse or not.

Atheism is correlated with better scientific literacy, lower poverty rates, higher literacy rates, higher average incomes, less violence, lower divorce rates, lower teen pregnancy rates, lower STD infection rates, lower crime rates and lower homicide rates. It correlates highly with the well-being of individuals and societies by almost every possible measure.

Studies on happiness outside of predominantly religious countries (eg. the United States) find little to no correlation between happiness and religious belief.

The only reason religious people are happier is the social bonding they get at church. That and ignorance is bliss.

Atheism is correlated WITH BEING A FOOL!!==YOU HAVE THE PROOF GOD IS REAL!!!==For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse. ROMANS 1:18

 

[emilynghiem]

YOU HAVE THE PROOF GOD IS REAL!!!==For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse. ROMANS 1:18

HI GISMYS
Jesus did not scream this way at Thomas when he asked to see proof.
He allowed and encouraged Thomas to touch and examine the wound himself.

In the end, this made Thomas a better witness to others who needed more detailed description and explanation than just taking and teaching things on faith.

The secular gentiles and scientists use scientific study in this way, to record the process and effects, so people can learn from sharing experiences and seeing the common patterns.

This is not against God to use science to understand, but is part of God's plan and why there are secular gentiles under natural laws as the second fold of the one flock.

 

[sealybobo]

God by being infinite, ultimate, and absolute would exceed any definition by man
much less any proof.

What we could "prove" is a statistical correlation of various MEANINGS or APPLICATIONS
that God "represents"

For example, statistically we can "prove" that people who believe in God and believe
in Universal Truth can align and reconcile their communications and language/terminology,
or people who believe in God and Universal Wisdom,
or God and Life, Love, supreme Good will, etc. can ALIGN their values/principles
and communicate/reconcile across religious or secular terms.

So we may not be able to prove what God is in full,
but we could prove that people AGREE that the CONCEPTS we MEAN by God align
and are pointing to the same source, even if the whole collective is beyond us.

Any god that was infinite, ultimate, and absolute would not have to hide.

YOU HAVE THE PROOF GOD IS REAL!!!==For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse. ROMANS 1:18

Just like the crazies on tv at night, you make no sense. Whatever you just said is not proof. Please clarify. What I have is every day I become more and more sure god doesn't exist. You are doing a HORRIBLE job representing god. He should smite you.