Why do some cops not study laws to the adequate level?

[shadow355]

Cops arrest folks for dissing them, you bet, and, yes, it is illegal, and, yes, there is redress for it.

Never resist an arrest, even if it is illegal. You do have an obligation to submit to such arrest, unless your life or limb are in danger.

Quote = "Cops arrest folks for dissing them, you bet, and, yes, it is illegal, and, yes, there is redress for it."


Hostility towards cops will most likely not be accepted. Once arrested, a person whom " Shows hostility toward officers " is put into "the system."

If you get in a fight sometime after your encounter with the police, and an officer runs the criminal history, it will show Battery or Assault towards police officers. There are just some times when a person gets arrested.....to "start the paperwork chain. Some crimes.....do not go unpunished, so if another officer comes in contact with a perp...they will know their history.


Shadow 355

 

[shadow355]

Not because you "think" but because "it is". According to the laws. “Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529.

“Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life"



Polar. You really aren't that ignorant are you.

You submit to the arrest and then let your attorney argue your case in court. If a Law Enforcement Officer is in the wrong, you let the judge correct the wrong. Let your attorney make things right, and if possible......get you fair compensation for your unlawful detainment.......if you have a good attorney.

I just watched a video a few weeks ago of a man resisting arrest on a traffic stop. The "Samoan" looking individual took on multiple officers......and was shot. One shot, and this estimated 6'2" - 400 to 450 pound man dropped like a rock, face down.


Shadow 355

 

[northpolarbear]

I was speaking for the general right that the victims of police ignorance "should not have to" go along with the illegal arrest to sue afterward, which Constitution.org & Supreme Court agree. I quoted that “Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life". I provided the web link with that quote. But "not resisting an illegal arrest but suing afterward" would be an easier way. I was talking in terms of an entitled right & an option. Which I "quoted".

 

[jillian]

Why do some cops not study laws to the adequate level?

http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm

“Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary.”

Cursing Out Police Is Perfectly Legal, But Cops Routinely Arrest People for It

"Being rude is not illegal, even if some of us sometimes wish it were. Being rude to cops, including cursing them out may be ill-advised, but it is protected speech.Yet that doesn’t mean you won’t end up in bracelets anyway.
As the Marshall Project reports, many citizens are illegally arrested for cursing at cop, when in fact, their speech is protected. A police officer from the McKinney, TX police department was captured on the now infamous pool party video throwing a 15-year-old girl to the ground after he accused her of mouthing off. He was later fired for his actions."

Some cops seem to think that they can make the arrests even when the arrests are illegal & that they are immune from profanity. Profanity is legal even against cops; they get it when they deserve it. Also, there is no obligation not to resist an illegal arrest. That's how it is in North America. A North American residing in North America is not obligated to follow some other country's law even if he or she violates a law against someone there like a profanity to an Asian cop through phone.

Also, apparently, the police is not afraid to conceal their wrongdoing.

Police routinely withhold body camera videos after shootings

"But in Burlington and elsewhere around the country, police and other officials are routinely blocking the release of body camera videos while giving officers accused of wrongdoing special access to the footage."

There should be like an organization established so that people are more informed about their rights (like shooting a police officer to death when making an illegal arrest) for the incompetency of the police officers with their level of law knowledge. They seem to sleep through their "basics" classes instead of getting an A+.

There should be something that enforces the boundary of what police does. Like a not-for-profit organization dedicated to teaching the public what cops can & can't do. That way, if a citizen gets his or her right violated, you know so & can teach the cop on it. There is already some legal supervising system to punish the cops violating laws, right? You just have to know to contact them when such happens.

I posted this in a wrong section, so reposting in the law section.

that's an interesting question.

there could probably be more training. and both police and the public would probably benefit from it. but i'm not sure educating people "about their rights" is the answer. there is nothing worse than someone who walks in and says "i know my rights". They almost never do....

case in point... no, you do not have the right to resist arrest. you will get more charges and spend real time in jail.

see what i mean?

 

[JakeStarkey]

You only have a right to resist an unlawful arrest is if your life or limb are in danger.

And the proof is on you.

 

[northpolarbear]

Uh, where does it say that?

“An arrest made with a defective warrant, or one issued without affidavit, or one that fails to allege a crime is within jurisdiction, and one who is being arrested, may resist arrest and break away. lf the arresting officer is killed by one who is so resisting, the killing will be no more than an involuntary manslaughter.” Housh v. People, 75 111. 491

“Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense.” (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100).

http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm

Not that this is important. I am just stating for the matter of fact.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Uh, where does it say that?

“An arrest made with a defective warrant, or one issued without affidavit, or one that fails to allege a crime is within jurisdiction, and one who is being arrested, may resist arrest and break away. lf the arresting officer is killed by one who is so resisting, the killing will be no more than an involuntary manslaughter.” Housh v. People, 75 111. 491

“Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense.” (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100).

http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm

Not that this is important. I am just stating for the matter of fact.

What were the final findings in these cases you cite?

 

[The Professor]

No, I was talking about the general right. Not whether that's recommended or not.

You really, really need to read the folloiwng link which explains the significance of the Elk and Plummer decisions. They are not what you have presented.

The Common-Law Right to Resist, at Least According to Contitution.org

I have a JD and I will not waste my time debating someone who does not know the law and is incapable of analyzing legal decisions.

WARNING: There is no law that gives a citizen the right to kill a cop just because an attempted arrest was "illegal" in some way. If you belieive there is such a right, got for it. So what happens when you do.

 

[Iceweasel]

He's one of those we'll see on the news one day. Cuffed and stuffed, or dead.

 

[shadow355]

He's one of those we'll see on the news one day. Cuffed and stuffed, or dead.

My current job - first foreman I had.

If we thought someone was stealing, he wanted us to detain...hold them...prevent them from leaving. I told him ( foreman - police office wanna be ) that I could prevent someone from entering the plant, but we had no authority to detain, hold, or prevent someone from leaving.

Shadow 355

 

[Anathema]

Why do some cops not study laws to the adequate level?

Better question..... Why do most Americans fail to be willing to accept the consequences of their inability or unwillingness to FOLLOW THE LAW?

I'm 41 years old and have never been arrested in my life. Why 99% of Americans can't say the same thing is beyond me.

 

[Iceweasel]

He's one of those we'll see on the news one day. Cuffed and stuffed, or dead.

My current job - first foreman I had.

If we thought someone was stealing, he wanted us to detain...hold them...prevent them from leaving. I told him ( foreman - police office wanna be ) that I could prevent someone from entering the plant, but we had no authority to detain, hold, or prevent someone from leaving.

Shadow 355

Yeah, been a member on a cop forum for a decade and lots of security/loss prevention guys trip over their dicks if they could prove theft. Or some try to detain you for not showing a receipt, like Wally World has been doing here lately. I say "nope" and keep walking with my stuff. Some overzealous guy is going to go too far someday.

 

[northpolarbear]

"the United States of America have recognized the right of the people to forcefully resist unlawful arrest by the government agents (including police), using deadly force if necessary. It was long recognized as a Natural and Common Law right of not only the person being arrested, but also of one’s fellow countrymen trying to assist him in resisting such an unlawful arrest. (Common Law supersedes statutory law – which is “private law” – unless an individual knowingly and freely consents to waive his natural “unalienable” and Common Law rights and consents to submit to statutory or contractual policy."

The Right to Forcefully Resist Unlawful Arrest (using deadly force, if necessary) | Cop Block


Uh, between a lawyer & a cop, the lawyer would be the law expert.


"The defendant is not guilty of the crime of (battery against a peace officer[,]/ [or] assault against a peace officer[,]/ [or] assault with (force likely to produce great bodily injury/a deadly weapon/a firearm/a semiautomatic firearm/a machine gun/an assault weapon) against a peace officer[,]/ [or] <insert other crime charged, e.g., resisting arrest>) if the officer was not lawfully performing (his/her) duties because (he/she) was unlawfully arresting someone."

Criminal Law 2672. Lawful Performance: Resisting Unlawful Arrest With Force :: Justia

"The Indiana situation, of course, involves the “right to resist” legislation passed by the State Senate and House of Representatives before a finalized version was sent to the Governor and signed into law late last week."

Can the 'right to resist' become a license to kill?

"Some states expressly grant the right to resist an unlawful arrest, and a few others expressly prohibit it."

Unlawful arrest: Is resisting a police arrest ever legal?


I mean, if you make an unlawful arrest, you get sued anyway. I just want to set the facts straight whether it is legal or illegal to resist an unlawful arrest. I don't care either way. It is just that there are many references saying it to be legal.

 

[Iceweasel]

Cop Block.....it figures. See ya on TV.

 

[northpolarbear]

Well, all the resources, except that 1 blog that claims a quote to be wrong, seem to say that resisting an illegal arrest is legal including the actual written code itself.
2672. Lawful Performance: Resisting Unlawful Arrest With Force
The detail is pretty much what the title says.

 

[northpolarbear]

Anyway, I already said that I was just curious for the sake of facts. In terms of having justice, even if you don't resist an unlawful arrest, you can punish & sue the cops afterward.

Sentence in False-Arrest Case

"A former police officer who falsely arrested a black Staten Island man was sentenced to nearly five years".

Punishments - False Imprisonment as a Crime - False Imprisonment

"Punishments awarded for an offense of false imprisonment depend on the relevant statute and other factors connected with the crime. Usually the sentence awarded will be proportionate to the gravity of an offense."

Can I sue the police department for false arrest and wrongful imprisonment?

"Can I sue the police department for false arrest and wrongful imprisonment?
An officer who detains an individual without just cause, depriving an individual of his or her freedom without sufficient reason or authority, can potentially be sued along with the police department.

If you ever find yourself in this situation, the first thing you should do is talk to a lawyer."

When is an Arrest ‘Wrongful?’ | Lawfirms.com

"An arrest is deemed wrongful when a person is detained and wrongfully convicted by police without proper legal authority."

False Imprisonment | Wex Legal Dictionary / Encyclopedia | LII / Legal Information Institute

"A a person commits false imprisonment when he commits an act of restraint on another person which confines that person in a bounded area. An act of restraint can be a physical barrier (such as a locked door), the use of physical force to restrain, a failure to release, or an invalid use of legal authority. Threats of immediate physical force are also sufficient to be acts of restraint. An area is only bounded if freedom of movement is limited in all directions. If there is a reasonable means of escape from the area, the area is not bounded.An example of an invalid use of legal authority is the detainment or arrest of a person without a warrant, with an illegal warrant, or with a warrant illegally executed. So long as the person is deprived of his personal liberty, the amount of time actually detained is inconsequential."

 

[Anathema]

]Yeah, been a member on a cop forum for a decade and lots of security/loss prevention guys trip over their dicks if they could prove theft. Or some try to detain you for not showing a receipt, like Wally World has been doing here lately. I say "nope" and keep walking with my stuff. Some overzealous guy is going to go too far someday.

Which is why I have no use for unarmed security and would not have it if I ever owned a business.

 

[Jarlaxle]

There is no obligation to submit to such arrest according to the supreme court.

Assuming you live anyway. It's a stupid gamble with the ultimate stakes when an unlawful arrest can put money in your pocket. Cops lose very few of those battles, they're trained and armed, you likely aren't.

I have given serious thought to starting to carry suicide pills. Yes, I consider one minute in jail worse than death.

 

[MikeK]

Killing a cop because you think the arrest is illegal. Yeah, good luck with that one, Sparky.

It would depend on two factors. One is how aggressively the illegal arrest was being conducted. The other is whether the defendant in the case can afford to mount an effective defense.

One outstanding example of such a defense is seen in a Texas jury's acquittal of several Branch Davidians who admittedly shot at and killed four ATF agents during the agents' infamous raid on the Davidian community residence at Waco.

The Texas jury decided that the armed and aggressive raid was unnecessary, therefore illegal, and that the Davidians had a right to defend themselves, which, under Texas law, they did.

http://www.constitution.org/waco/ertausch.htm

Fortunately for those Davidians two of the best criminal lawyers in Texas chose to defend them pro-bono (free of charge) because of the prominence of that case. A less competent and/or motivated defense would undoubtedly have failed and those Davidians would have been convicted of murder rather than acquitted on grounds of self defense against unlawful armed aggression.

 

[Iceweasel]

I seem to recall a few of them biting the dust. If it was illegal they would be alive and able to sue. That's my preference and my point. You can be legally right, but legally dead.