Zone1 Why do so many atheists seem to want to attack religion?

[Mashmont]

That explains Trump.

No, Trump is like the good kid who takes on the class bully when others are afraid to. That's why people rally around him.

 

[GLASNOST]

Are you going to name one (just one) who was canonised in God's presence? Gosh, I'd be satisfied with a copy of the e-post sent by God nominating even one Saint. I've seen a couple of forest fires but not a single bush ever spoke to me. And that was during the time I was still an altar boy so you'd think, you know ...... dominus mecum fuisset..

Still evading the simple question. — Looking for just ONE atheist counterpart to a canonized Saint. So you can’t think if even one great moral atheist who devoted his life to attend to others? Not even one?

Lots of them:

*Normal people are praised by a slap on the back and an award. They don't pretend they are gods or expect others to think they are.

* Theists, on the other hand, lock themselves into churches and set it ablaze ... or build some wooden houses in the jungle and coerce everyone to drink cyanide ... or kidnap children and keep them in the cellar ... or fondle little boys in the sacristy ... or chop off the heads of non-believers and think they will be rewarded in the after-life with a gaggle of virgins.

Yep, I prefer Atheists on my bowling team who practice in order to increase their chances of winning rather than pray for it ....... AND THAT’S A STONE-COLD FACT.

 

[ding]

Correct but, as I said, I don't know if there was a supernatural creator who engineered our universe. That disqualifies me as being atheist. Wheat does that leave?

You are claiming to know something about God. Specifically that God cannot be the God of Abraham. Agnostics believe nothing can be known about God. Period. Therefore you are not agnostic. The only arguments I have ever seen you make were against the existence of God. Saying you don’t know if God created the universe does not make you agnostic.

 

[ding]

I do a number of volunteer activities, I just don't count them as suffering, as you do.

That’s a fringe argument. You need to look at the entire distribution. You can’t limit it to volunteering. Especially since you had a choice to not volunteer. What I originally wrote was this:

Life is unfair. Everyone should expect to make sacrifices. Given that you see no purpose to this, the best you can expect is to suffer without complaint. Whereas I embrace my sacrifices and find peace and joy. That’s a little bit more than optimism.

Are you suggesting that your volunteering was unfair? No. Why don’t you put it in the proper context of a situation that was unfair and forced upon you? Because that’s the proper context.

 

[ding]

I do a number of volunteer activities, I just don't count them as suffering, as you do.

But to your point that I see making sacrifices as suffering, I don’t. I embrace unfair forced sacrifices because I have faith in God that good will come from bad. Those instances bring me closer to Christ. Now, is that always my initial reaction? No. But I use the tools of thankfulness and forgiveness which turns my initial reaction into peace and joy. And usually I learn from these experiences and progress such that initial responses in the future are muted. What I will tell you is that the brain works much better when it is not stressed. So not being affected by unfair events allows me to be much more clear and level headed in the heat of the battle so to speak.

You have no clue what value faith has in my life. None at all. You are so certain you can’t be wrong that you are missing the forest for the trees.

 

[Meriweather]

You think only Catholics do good? You have to be dead to be canonized, Does that mean there are no good living Catholics?

All Catholics, for that matter all Christians, are saints. Saints (canonized saints) can be considered comparable to the Sports Hall of Fame. Many, many athletes, but some are shining examples. Many, many saints--and some shining examples.

 

[PeterPilot]

Atheism is not a monolith, so I'll acknowledge that before it even goes there.

Many though, in my opinion, behave just the way I'm describing. Atheism sometimes feels less like its own worldview and more like a reaction to religion; a counter-brand built against theology rather than something for itself. If faith brings peace and meaning to so many decent people, why disrupt that? Why try to hurt people with what you believe to be a devastating truth? Shouldn't the truth of its devastation trigger your empathy to restrain yourself? Is the pursuit of being right worth more than compassion? Can skepticism coexist with kindness, or does it always have to provoke conflict?

Could we maybe respect belief without surrendering critical thought? What do you think? Is there a middle ground, or is this a cultural war destined to rage forever?

The obsession to prove theists wrong isn’t bravery. It’s insecurity framed as enlightenment, and tribalism framed as skepticism. Why chain others with the burden of your disbelief? If your cause is truth, why inflict suffering in its name? Maybe some people need their faith to survive. Maybe your relentless assault only feeds their fear and resentment.

So what are you really fighting for?

Is pointing out that organized religion has been a very large factor in most of mankind's wars "attacking religion"?

Is pointing out that faith is really just believing in something you know cannot be proved "attacking religion"?

I'm not an atheist, but I understand both those things. Am I attacking religion? Even if I strongly support the letter and spirit of the First Amendment?

 

[Anomalism]

Is pointing out that organized religion has been a very large factor in most of mankind's wars "attacking religion"?

Is pointing out that faith is really just believing in something you know cannot be proved "attacking religion"?

I'm not an atheist, but I understand both those things. Am I attacking religion? Even if I strongly support the letter and spirit of the First Amendment?

It depends on tone and intent. You tell me. Are you trying to attack, or trying to build understanding sincerely?

Be honest with yourself. Maybe you're not. I don't really know you.

 

[PeterPilot]

It depends on tone and intent. You tell me. Are you trying to attack, or trying to build understanding sincerely?

Be honest with yourself. Maybe you're not. I don't really know you.

Do you understand English? Is it possible for a man to say what he means and mean what he says? Have you ever read the First Amendment.

What positive things can you say about organized religion?

 

[Anomalism]

Do you understand English? Is it possible for a man to say what he means and mean what he says? Have you ever read the First Amendment.

What positive things can you say about organized religion?

That was a pretty defensive response.

 

[PeterPilot]

That was a pretty defensive response.

Yours was a pretty stupid question.

 

[Anomalism]

Yours was a pretty stupid question.

Why get defensive about it then?

 

[PeterPilot]

Why get defensive about it then?

I'm not defensive, I'm trying only to clarify that the OP that atheists 'seem' to want to attack religion is unfounded speculation, with no effort made at proving it.

 

[Anomalism]

I'm not defensive, I'm trying only to clarify that the OP that atheists 'seem' to want to attack religion is unfounded speculation, with no effort made at proving it.

So there are no atheists that do what I described?

 

[ding]

Is pointing out that organized religion has been a very large factor in most of mankind's wars "attacking religion"?

Is pointing out that faith is really just believing in something you know cannot be proved "attacking religion"?

Yes, because it makes no effort to look at the good it’s done. You are only looking at half the picture. Objectivity requires looking at both sides. There’s no objectivity in attacks.

 

[ding]

I'm not defensive, I'm trying only to clarify that the OP that atheists 'seem' to want to attack religion is unfounded speculation, with no effort made at proving it.

The OP wasn’t saying all atheists attack or criticize religion. Or did I miss that?

 

[Mashmont]

Lots of them:

*Normal people are praised by a slap on the back and an award. They don't pretend they are gods or expect others to think they are.

* Theists, on the other hand, lock themselves into churches and set it ablaze ... or build some wooden houses in the jungle and coerce everyone to drink cyanide ... or kidnap children and keep them in the cellar ... or fondle little boys in the sacristy ... or chop off the heads of non-believers and think they will be rewarded in the after-life with a gaggle of virgins.

Yep, I prefer Atheists on my bowling team who practice in order to increase their chances of winning rather than pray for it ....... AND THAT’S A STONE-COLD FACT.

1. Jim Jones' cult was an atheist cult.
2. Love the little pivot from the Catholic Church to radical Islam as you talk about chopping off heads for a gaggle of virgins, in an attempt to indict "theism". It's a common tactic you people use.
3. It's sheer idiocy to think Christians don't practice to improve.
4. No Catholic or other Christian thinks he's a "god". Another ridiculous statement

 

[alang1216]

That’s a fringe argument. You need to look at the entire distribution. You can’t limit it to volunteering. Especially since you had a choice to not volunteer. What I originally wrote was this:



Are you suggesting that your volunteering was unfair? No. Why don’t you put it in the proper context of a situation that was unfair and forced upon you? Because that’s the proper context.

OK, I think, how about this. My son was born with a disability which caused my whole family to suffer. He is doing great now and he gives us all great joy but I can't say I enjoyed the process. Are you saying the journey would have given you peace and joy before you knew all would turn out OK?

 

[alang1216]

But to your point that I see making sacrifices as suffering, I don’t. I embrace unfair forced sacrifices because I have faith in God that good will come from bad. Those instances bring me closer to Christ. Now, is that always my initial reaction? No. But I use the tools of thankfulness and forgiveness which turns my initial reaction into peace and joy. And usually I learn from these experiences and progress such that initial responses in the future are muted. What I will tell you is that the brain works much better when it is not stressed. So not being affected by unfair events allows me to be much more clear and level headed in the heat of the battle so to speak.

You sound like a very optimistic person.

You have no clue what value faith has in my life. None at all. You are so certain you can’t be wrong that you are missing the forest for the trees.

How certain are you that you can't be wrong?

 

[BULLDOG]

1. Jim Jones' cult was an atheist cult.
2. Love the little pivot from the Catholic Church to radical Islam as you talk about chopping off heads for a gaggle of virgins, in an attempt to indict "theism". It's a common tactic you people use.
3. It's sheer idiocy to think Christians don't practice to improve.
4. No Catholic or other Christian thinks he's a "god". Another ridiculous statement

Perhaps they don't think they are god, but lots of them make millions by pretending they are god's second in command. They are perfectly happy when poor widows send their medicine money to them because they think it's a direct line to god.