Why Do Liberals Hate the Free Market?

[LOki]

Socialism or communism as I understand them mean we all have an equal right to affect the outcome of the nation, and China (a commie country with millionaires???) and Russia (secret police?) are poor examples of socialism and GREAT examples of tyranny.

Socialism is the tyrrany of the incompetent over the competent. Under Socialism and communism, the creators of wealth are slaves to the consumers of wealth. The creators of wealth have no right to affect the outcome of the nation, they have only a duty (enfoced at gunpoint) to the consumers of thier wealth.

Even Cuba, which has some amazing elements also has many reidicous ones ( no press freedom, etc).

Cuba sucks.

Examples of subsidy? Canada's subsidies for agriculture, US subsidies for defense corporations, subsidies for auto industry... is that waht you asked for?

I'm aware they exist, but I'm wondering which are neccessary? Why MUST the agriculture business be subsidized? Why MUST defense contractors be subsidized? Why MUST the auto industry be subsidized?

And, as I state everywhere, the most important things are usually dealt with in a socialist manner... the things we can't live without. Why is that?

It's a power grab made by those who consider themselves entitled to the lives of other people.

 

[Gurdari]

Socialism is the tyrrany of the incompetent over the competent. Under Socialism and communism, the creators of wealth are slaves to the consumers of wealth. The creators of wealth have no right to affect the outcome of the nation, they have only a duty (enfoced at gunpoint) to the consumers of thier wealth..

Hahaha... nice 'definition'. Under socialism and communism the collective of people has control. Whether that gets corrupted or any guns get pointed is all a matter of the people involved... just like capitalism...and really, the 'creators' of wealth in a capitalist society have less control over that wealth than the non-creating overseers... unless the thousands of US workers who actually make the products or provide the services are really in charge of the companies they work for?

Cuba sucks.

Okay... I see your experience in Cuba and the research you've done has led you to a different opinion than mine, fair enough. But why not explain? They do have some excellent things, and some shitty things... do they not?
(healthcare and education for example of the 'excellent')

I'm aware they exist, but I'm wondering which are neccessary? Why MUST the agriculture business be subsidized? Why MUST defense contractors be subsidized? Why MUST the auto industry be subsidized?.

I wasn't arguing for - or against - subsidies... I only pointed out that the so-called 'free market' has them... so how free is it?

It's a power grab made by those who consider themselves entitled to the lives of other people.

I understand this may be an emotional topic, but I do not feel entitled to your life, or anyone elses... I just think there are more responsible ways of running government, responsible to the citizens, that is.

 

[LOki]

Hahaha... nice 'definition'. Under socialism and communism the collective of people has control.

Correct. The "collective" disposes of human live as if those humans don't own themselves. My definitions of socialism and communism are straight from the socialist and communist textbooks of socialism and communism.

I give socialists and communists every benefit of their best intioned doubt, but I insist they hold true to their premise--that the individual is a means to the ends of the many.

Whether that gets corrupted or any guns get pointed is all a matter of the people involved...

Socialism and communism is inherently corrupt, both intellectually and morally.

...just like capitalism...

Nope. Ownership of yourself is not a corrupt notion.

...and really, the 'creators' of wealth in a capitalist society have less control over that wealth than the non-creating overseers... unless the thousands of US workers who actually make the products or provide the services are really in charge of the companies they work for?

You have quaint proletatiat notions of who actually creates wealth. The thousands of bolt twisters in the US ARE NOT the wealth creators--the wealth creators are the one who tell the bolt twisters how to twist bolts, and which bolts to twist so that bolt twisting becomes valuable.

Okay... I see your experience in Cuba and the research you've done has led you to a different opinion than mine, fair enough. But why not explain? They do have some excellent things, and some shitty things... do they not?
(healthcare and education for example of the 'excellent')

Oh yes, Cuba..home of the erudite. Birthplace of pure genius. The monument to the effectiveness of state indoctrination on the advancment of human knowledge.

I especially like the way their healthcare system, and the super-geniuses that run it, cured AIDS.

I wasn't arguing for - or against - subsidies... I only pointed out that the so-called 'free market' has them... so how free is it?

A free-market does not have subsidies, nor needs them.

I understand this may be an emotional topic, but I do not feel entitled to your life, or anyone elses...

If you're a socialist, or a communist, you most certainly do. You must. It is the primary prerequisite for socialism and communism.

I just think there are more responsible ways of running government, responsible to the citizens, that is.

I think putting the running of nuclear power plants (example: Chernobyl) in the hands of the collective (as it happened to be), rather than those who know how to run nuclear power plants properly, is an example of how totally irresponsible "collective" control of anything is.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Why do so many liberals see the free market ( i.e. capitalism) as evil?

The free market got rid of major diseases that plauged humanity for centuries

The free market has raised the standard of living around the world

The free market allows people with little means to attain great amounts of wealth

The free market gave the US the best education system in the world before government got involved

The free market is an excellent system which allows the people able to please the greatest number of people with products and services succeed.


Yet liberals want the government to micromanage the free market and make government the answer to all problems

Because they are control freaks. Thats why so many "activists" are in their camp.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

What free market? Our market is dominated by profit hungry multi-national corporation who gladly ship jobs overseas rather than pay prevailing wages to American workers.

You obviously gobble up the propaganda of the left.

You do realize that America has a net GAIN of jobs because of outsourcing.

And what is so bad about wanting to make a profit. It has led to the most succesful economy and country in all of history, ever.

 

[red states rule]

The bad economic news keeps coming in for the moonbat left

Since August 2003, more than 7.5 million jobs have been created, with 2 million jobs created over the last 12 months. Our economy has now added jobs for 42 straight months, and the unemployment rate remains low at 4.5 percent.

More American Workers Are Finding Jobs And Taking Home More Pay

Real Wages Rose 2.2 Percent Over The Past 12 Months Ending In January. This is substantially faster than the average rate of the late 1990s economy, and it means an extra $1,279 in the past year for the typical family with two wage earners.
Real After-Tax Income Per Person Has Risen By 10 Percent – More Than $2,900 – Since President Bush Took Office.
The Economy Has Now Experienced Over Five Years Of Uninterrupted Growth, Averaging 3.0 Percent A Year Since 2001.
The Dow Is Up Over 40 Percent Since The President's Tax Relief Took Effect. The NASDAQ is up more than 55 percent over the same period.


and.........
The nation's payrolls grew by 111,000 last month, and unemployment ticked up slightly as the job market turned in a weaker performance than expected, according to today's report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Average weekly hours also slid, as did factory work and jobs in home construction.

Extensive revisions in today's release, however, reveal faster job growth than was previously reported in prior months. In 2006, for example, employment grew by 2.2 million, 405,000 more than was reported last month. Over the course of the full recovery (beginning November 2001), payrolls added about one million more jobs than were originally reported. Yet even with these additions, the overall jobs recovery still remains weak in historical terms, with jobs growing at half the rate of the 1990s recovery (4.9% vs. 10%).

While January's job gains were lower than expected, averaging over the past few months reveals a solid underlying trend of job growth. In the past three months, employment is up 171,000 per month, on average, and over the past year average monthly gains were about 180,000. These steady gains have helped to tighten the job market, leading to stronger wage growth over the past year.

http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_econindicators_jobspict_20070202

 

[boedicca]

The Extreme Left's hatred of free markets has nothing to do with economic performance - it's all about control. At bottom, they don't trust individuals to run their own lives - and wish to sit in the Elite Seats to tell us what to do.

Personal and Economic Liberty are Conjoined - so they must take away the latter to undermine the former.

 

[red states rule]

The Extreme Left's hatred of free markets has nothing to do with economic performance - it's all about control. At bottom, they don't trust individuals to run their own lives - and wish to sit in the Elite Seats to tell us what to do.

Personal and Economic Liberty are Conjoined - so they must take away the latter to undermine the former.

To the moonbat left, the only choice they want to give individuals is when it comes to murdering a unborn baby. Other then that, the moonbats believe you are to damn stupid to take care of yourself

Of course I remember how the left said tax cuts would cripple the US economy.

 

[boedicca]

Certainly, some of them are hoping for a recession prior to the '08 election.

 

[red states rule]

Certainly, some of them are hoping for a recession prior to the '08 election.

Good news for America is bad news for the Democrats

 

[LuvRPgrl]

The bad economic news keeps coming in for the moonbat left


http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_econindicators_jobspict_20070202

Interestingly enough, every single person whom I have read or heard questioned about the economy, this includes your everyday avg Joe,
Of all of those, the ones who thought the economy was doing poorly, when asked how their own personal economics have been doing since PRESIDENT BUSH (that one is for YOU chimpy), every single one of them, 100% stated that their own personal situation has improved and is doing well. They stated what they perceived, presented by the derogatory main stream misleading media.

It seems the libs have abandoned this thread.

 

[red states rule]

Interestingly enough, every single person whom I have read or heard questioned about the economy, this includes your everyday avg Joe,
Of all of those, the ones who thought the economy was doing poorly, when asked how their own personal economics have been doing since PRESIDENT BUSH (that one is for YOU chimpy), every single one of them, 100% stated that their own personal situation has improved and is doing well. They stated what they perceived, presented by the derogatory main stream misleading media.

It seems the libs have abandoned this thread.

Of course libs have abandoned the thread - they know the economy is doing well.

I laugh when libs say how rotten the current economy is. When you compare the numbers, Pres Bush's economic numbers are equal to or better then Clinotn's. That is what drives libs nuts. A very good economy fueled by TAX CUTS!!!!!!!

 

[Hamiltonian]

Of course libs have abandoned the thread - they know the economy is doing well.

I laugh when libs say how rotten the current economy is. When you compare the numbers, Pres Bush's economic numbers are equal to or better then Clinotn's. That is what drives libs nuts. A very good economy fueled by TAX CUTS!!!!!!!

Are you making the claim that Bush has had an equal or better annual rate of GDP growth that Clinton did?

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Are you making the claim that Bush has had an equal or better annual rate of GDP growth that Clinton did?

R U claiming that the strength of our conomy is nased solely on the GDP?

 

[red states rule]

R U claiming that the strength of our conomy is nased solely on the GDP?

The point is libs whine how rotten the US economy is, and yet the good economic news keeps coming is.

Libs will NEVER admit the Bush tax cuts pulled the US economy out of the Clinton slide, helped the economy get through 9-11, a seriies of hurricans, high energy prices, and two wars.

 

[Hamiltonian]

R U claiming that the strength of our conomy is nased solely on the GDP?

Economic growth is the strongest measure of how well our economy is doing.

The point is libs whine how rotten the US economy is, and yet the good economic news keeps coming is.

Libs will NEVER admit the Bush tax cuts pulled the US economy out of the Clinton slide, helped the economy get through 9-11, a seriies of hurricans, high energy prices, and two wars.

The point is you've made an unsupported claim. If this is all so obvious you shouldn't have to claim things that aren't true. It is possible to argue that Bush has done an excellent with the circumstances he was given, but it's is simply untrue to say that Bush has equal or better statistics.

 

[red states rule]

Economic growth is the strongest measure of how well our economy is doing.

I know it pisses off the Bush hating left - the US economy is still growing

All the economic growth, increased revenue to the government, and a shrinking deficit......................

all due to the Bush tax cuts that libs said would cripple the US economy

 

[Hamiltonian]

I know it pisses off the Bush hating left - the US economy is still growing

All the economic growth, increased revenue to the government, and a shrinking deficit......................

all due to the Bush tax cuts that libs said would cripple the US economy

Except the bipartisan CBO says that the tax cuts are having little to no effect on the economy, but they are decreasing revenue.

 

[red states rule]

Except the bipartisan CBO says that the tax cuts are having little to no effect on the economy, but they are decreasing revenue.

Is this the same CBO that has been OVER estimating the annual deficit

If tax cuts do not cause increased revenues how do you spin the RECORD amount in tax revenues set last fiscal quarter?

 

[Bullypulpit]

Libs regualte the free market to increase their control and power. Libs do not give a shit about the "poor" or the working class. All libs care about is being the mommy and daddy party and the transfer of wealth from the producers and the non producers

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