Why Do/Don't We Need The Department of Education?

[The Rabbi]

I think the point being made is that it doesn't appear to have added anything of value to the system, so why continue to spend millions, if not billions of dollars per year on it for at minimum, the same results we'd have without it?

Pages of discussion and no one can give a good argument why we should keep this albatross.

Someone has to enforce the GOP No Child Left Behind Act

The one Ted Kennedy wrote?

 

[g5000]

“to lay taxes to provide for the general welfare of the U.S.” that is to say “to lay taxes for the purpose of providing for the general welfare.” for the laying of taxes is the power and the general welfare the purpose for which the power is to be exercised. they are not to lay taxes ad libitum for any purpose they please but only to pay the debts or provide for the welfare of the Union. in like manner they are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. to consider the latter phrase, not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct & independent power to do any act they please, which might be for the good of the Union, would render all the preceding & subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. it would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase, that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the U.S. and as they would be the sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they pleased.
--Thomas Jefferson--Founder--Hater of Liberals--Great American

This was a most kick-ass argument made by Thomas Jefferson, and prescient in the extreme. It is painful to read, considering his fears have been realized.

He lost the fight in which he made this argument, though.

Hamilton outwitted him.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Because the U.S.D.oE., like almost all liberal schemes, is an utter failure.

 

[uscitizen]

Why Do/Don't We Need The Department of Education?

In order to create a more perfect union.

We need one source for all the propaganda.

The sad thing is that we humans are not advanced enough to form a more perfect union except for reasons of fear and such.

 

[toxicmedia]

Obama is the only Democrat running for president this year. I guess if you have your head up your ass (and who knows who else's) you might have missed that.

If states want to get rid of their state boards of ed that's OK with me.

Frankly I'd be fine with dissolving all government schools and reducing taxes that much. Doubtless that would horrify a rancid statist like yourself, with hysterical claims of "think of the children". But the truth is kids would end up much better educated.

The bolded portion above is in sharp contrast to Obama's proclamation last night that manditory education for children up to 18 be enforced.

I can't imagine education NOT being the top priority for young Americans. It sure as shit is for Idians, Chinese, Koreans, Europeans, and everyone else in the world. We're the only country in the world that thinks Joe's Heating and Air College of Burbank will equip our children to compete globally.

Well imagine it. Many American children don't care about education. They want to get out of school, the sooner, the better. Why? Perhaps because we aren't teaching things that might interest them, things that seem relevant. It's shocking how many kids that hate history, come alive when the teacher connects how to effect change, via the past. Unfortunately that isn't what's taught in most classrooms today.

Some of the problem certainly has to do with 'national standards': JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

It's not just social studies, the same is happening in science, math, and language arts. Not only are they being 'dumbed down' and made 'politically correct', they are losing the kids.

I used to work extensively with the dept of education and K-12 schols and districts nationally. There isn't a major school board in the country that didn't see me between 1997-2000. I used to sell the first teacher gradebook software package that allowed the school's administrative package to export student grades to school websites so parents could check thier kids grades daily online.

I though it was the solution to K-12 problems. No longer would parents have to wait till a parent-teacher conference, or report cards, to know their kid wasn't doing what they should.

I was greatly dismayed by the lack of attention parents gave to this resource in the real world.

Students these days value being famous for famous sake more than they do education. While that has always been the case to some degree, right now HIGHER education is exponentially more important than it was in 1990 or 2000.

Teachers have to put up with snot nosed cell phone toting brats who disrupt class and don't care.

Most kids can still do well in school if they apply themselves, so it's not all bad news. I went to school in California's second to last performing school district in the 70's, and I still went to college, because my parents were engaged, I wanted to succeed, and the teachers I had were adequate.

These three things need to be in place, and Obama, Romney, or Gingrich can't do anything about it. Political correctness has nothing to do with it either. How would kids being able to tell racial jokes or make unwanted passes at girls help education?

I misunderstood....didn't I?

 

[chanel]

Interesting that you say that. I teach seniors who ask me daily "What's my grade?" I tell them to check Power School, and they look at me like I have two heads.

I've had parents ask me to send home weekly progress reports, and when I tell them they can check on line, they are baffled.

THEY DON'T USE IT! I guess they think "That's not MY job". Strange.
______________________________

For anyone interested in seeing examples of the new national standards, here is the link and an example from the high school language arts:

Integration of Knowledge and Ideas

* RI.11-12.7. Integrate and evaluate multiple sources of information presented in different media or formats (e.g., visually, quantitatively) as well as in words in order to address a question or solve a problem.
* RI.11-12.8. Delineate and evaluate the reasoning in seminal U.S. texts, including the application of constitutional principles and use of legal reasoning (e.g., in U.S. Supreme Court majority opinions and dissents) and the premises, purposes, and arguments in works of public advocacy (e.g., The Federalist, presidential addresses).
* RI.11-12.9. Analyze seventeenth-, eighteenth-, and nineteenth-century foundational U.S. documents of historical and literary significance (including The Declaration of Independence, the Preamble to the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and Lincoln’s Second Inaugural Address) for their themes, purposes, and rhetorical features.

Common Core State Standards Initiative | English Language Arts Standards | Reading: Informational Text | Grade 11-12

We are now using these standards on our daily lesson plans. I get the giggles every time I read them. My students still have not mastered Phonics. I now find the CCS funnier than Seinfeld.

Yep. National Standards will make kids smarter.

 

[toxicmedia]

Interesting that you say that. I teach seniors who ask me daily "What's my grade?" I tell them to check Power School, and they look at me like I have two heads.

I've had parents ask me to send home weekly progress reports, and when I tell them they can check on line, they are baffled.

THEY DON'T USE IT! I guess they think "That's not MY job". Strange.
______________________________

For anyone interested in seeing examples of the new national standards, here is the link and an example from the high school language arts:

Integration of Knowledge and Ideas

* RI.11-12.7. Integrate and evaluate multiple sources of information presented in different media or formats (e.g., visually, quantitatively) as well as in words in order to address a question or solve a problem.
* RI.11-12.8. Delineate and evaluate the reasoning in seminal U.S. texts, including the application of constitutional principles and use of legal reasoning (e.g., in U.S. Supreme Court majority opinions and dissents) and the premises, purposes, and arguments in works of public advocacy (e.g., The Federalist, presidential addresses).
* RI.11-12.9. Analyze seventeenth-, eighteenth-, and nineteenth-century foundational U.S. documents of historical and literary significance (including The Declaration of Independence, the Preamble to the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and Lincoln’s Second Inaugural Address) for their themes, purposes, and rhetorical features.

Common Core State Standards Initiative | English Language Arts Standards | Reading: Informational Text | Grade 11-12

We are now using these standards on our daily lesson plans. I get the giggles every time I read them. My students still have not mastered Phonics. I now find the CCS funnier than Seinfeld.

Yep. National Standards will make kids smarter.

I almost worked for Powerschool, before the Apple buyout. The company I worked for no longer exists, but the program was Grade Machine, and it was bought eventually by Pearson.

And it seems as though parents are doing a little more blame shifting than Republicans, or they, would like to acknowlege.

 

[francoHFW]

The problem with schools is the problem with everything, the Voodoo tax system that is ruining everyone but the greedy myopic Pub rich...see pp! in sig.

Without a Dept of education I can see some states teaching creationism and how caring slave owners were...

 

[chanel]

I highly doubt that. The Dept of Education does not tell states what to teach. At least for right now.

But you people crack me up with your "creationism" hysteria. Catholic schools teach creationism, and also produce accomplished graduates. Would you like to see a list? In fact, I believe President Obama attended Catholic school.

True story.

 

[Grandma]

My hubs went to catholic school. He knows absolutely nothing about science.

 

[Lakhota]

The United States Constitution, Article I, Section 8, authorizes the U.S. Department of Education.

 

[The Rabbi]

The United States Constitution, Article I, Section 8, authorizes the U.S. Department of Education.

Actually it doesn't. But dream on.

 

[editec]

The DoE doesn't control k-12 education in the USA.

About 14,000 local school districts have the greatest impact on their individual districts and they answer to the STATE departments of ED.

The Republicans gave the FEDERAL DoE enormous power with the NO Child Left Behind ACt.

So who is really leading the creeping socialism of our educational; system?

The GOP.

Leave it to this boards clueless right wing cranks not to understand that obvious fact.

 

[chanel]

The Dept. of Education was made a cabinet level position by Jimmy Carter.

 

[The T]

The United States Constitution, Article I, Section 8, authorizes the U.S. Department of Education.

Where?

 

[chanel]

The original Department of Education was created in 1867 to collect information on schools and teaching that would help the States establish effective school systems. While the agency's name and location within the Executive Branch have changed over the past 130 years, this early emphasis on getting information on what works in education to teachers and education policymakers continues down to the present day.

Federal Role in Education

 

[editec]

The Dept. of Education was made a cabinet level position by Jimmy Carter.

the "No child left behind ACT" -- the most FEDERALIZING act in the US history of education was a REPUBLICAN policy, Chanel.

Seriously, you do not understand that?

 

[chanel]

NCLB sucks editec. No argument there. Many states are "opting out".

But I happen to be on the fence about national standards. And we do need a federal authority if that's the way we go.

I am not one of those who believe "big government - bad; small government - good". I actually believe in good government - at all levels. They all have their place and functions.

People would probably be less emotional about this issue if they could point to SOME successes. I'm not familiar with any.

 

[rightwinger]

NCLB sucks editec. No argument there. Many states are "opting out".

But I happen to be on the fence about national standards. And we do need a federal authority if that's the way we go.

I am not one of those who believe "big government - bad; small government - good". I actually believe in good government - at all levels. They all have their place and functions.

People would probably be less emotional about this issue if they could point to SOME successes. I'm not familiar with any.

I don't think you should paint with such a broad brush. There are some exceptional schools in this country and we put out some of the finest graduates in the world

If you ask me, I think our problem is cultural and not educational. Americans have become lazy and do not want their children to be accountable. If the kid is failing, it must be the schools fault. If the kid is disruptive, it must be the schools inability to keep discipline. If the kid is punished, it is not the kids fault, it is the school singling him out.

Kids today have a very low attention span and and unwillingness to sacrifice for long term goals. Parents want instant results without the work

 

[chanel]

Preachin' to the choir rightwinger. I went to public school in NJ and I teach here. We do a damn good job, given what we're dealt with.

There is an argument to be made that there is certain information that every American needs to know. National standards would cover that.

But there is an equally cogent argument that there is different skill set that people in CO need, that people in NYC do not.

Personally, I think the horse has already left the barn. We are part of a global network; not just a local or national one.

My issue is pragmatic. Will national standards supercede state and local ones? Will they contradict each other?

Will teachers be bogged down with so many govt. regulations, that they will have little time to teach? Will students be bogged down with so much information, their heads will explode? We're getting there.