why do Blacks use welfare at 6 times the rate of Whites?

[toxicmedia]

what about Chinese people !! they have been suppressed for generations also !! and there culture is extremely different than America's !! and yet within 1 generation they can assimilate and become productive achievers !! no it is not because of the past that blacks have problems .....it is a genetic trait that only this simian species suffers from !!

You're a huge reeeetard.

 

[High_Gravity]

Yidnar...

I have a question for you.

Do you think America should give automatic american citizenship to those white hispanics just like the state of Israel gives automatic israeli citizenship to Jews from all over the world?

Or should the US put them on the first plane and send them back to Latin America?

He'll probably say yes, as long as they are 100% white and not Black or Mestizo.

 

[toxicmedia]

I'm still stuck on something....let's say blacks have lower IQ's than whites, jews, and asians. I still haven't been exposed to any compelling data that would prove this...but let's, for the sake of argument, assume it's the case...

Does that mean you think a low IQ's makes it more likely to be on welfare? I mean...couldn't it be that the differing brain charateristics are there...but not be the cause of dissproportianate wefare collection stats?

Did I miss something?.....I'm frankly kind of unnerved that I see so many posters on this thread seeming comfortable with the idea that blacks are genetically and culturally inferior...and that's why they collect wefare in greater percentages, which seems like a bit of an over-reach to me. And!!....everyone who thinks that is a conservative or a conservative leaning independent!

And even if that were true...what good is it to know it?....what good is it to say it?.....if not only to vent racial resentments.

I also don't see how low IQ means you will be on welfare, there are alot of white people on welfare and assistance as well, this would mean whites and blacks have almost the same IQ.

well it might mean that white and black welfare recipients both have low intelligence.

a thought experiment. if you randomly pick a thousand blacks with IQ100 and compare them to a thousand whites with IQ85, which group would have more education, better jobs, more stable families, more success overall? obviously it would be the black group. you would be comparing groups in the top one sixth of blacks to the bottom one sixth of whites.

if you compare blacks and whites of equal IQ you find they have similar life paths. that is the realistic way of finding out whether racism and unfair opportunity are major hinderences to the progress of blacks. this has been done and it finds black women favoured to a small degree and black men disfavoured to a small degree. this is likely a result of socialization where black women fit into the dominant culture more easily.

Let me try a different tact.....

Even if you proved that blacks are intellectually challenged compared to other demographics....what will YOU do with that?.......I hope you know that most blacks I know would not be interested in getting help with that from you, even if they did have a lower IQ or cranial capacity.

The point here is that chronic manipulation of welfare is what needs to stop. Does knowing that blacks have lower IQ's on the average give you any kind of information that would help you find a solution to the desparity?

btw.....I'm not convinced the these averages you've cites indicate that the cranial capacity or the IQ is significantly lower enough to impare development or bahavior.

I'm still convinced the things you're trying to blame of inferiority are simply caused by a unique form of discrimination, and poverty.

 

[IanC]

I also don't see how low IQ means you will be on welfare, there are alot of white people on welfare and assistance as well, this would mean whites and blacks have almost the same IQ.

well it might mean that white and black welfare recipients both have low intelligence.

a thought experiment. if you randomly pick a thousand blacks with IQ100 and compare them to a thousand whites with IQ85, which group would have more education, better jobs, more stable families, more success overall? obviously it would be the black group. you would be comparing groups in the top one sixth of blacks to the bottom one sixth of whites.

if you compare blacks and whites of equal IQ you find they have similar life paths. that is the realistic way of finding out whether racism and unfair opportunity are major hinderences to the progress of blacks. this has been done and it finds black women favoured to a small degree and black men disfavoured to a small degree. this is likely a result of socialization where black women fit into the dominant culture more easily.

Let me try a different tact.....

Even if you proved that blacks are intellectually challenged compared to other demographics....what will YOU do with that?.......I hope you know that most blacks I know would not be interested in getting help with that from you, even if they did have a lower IQ or cranial capacity.

The point here is that chronic manipulation of welfare is what needs to stop. Does knowing that blacks have lower IQ's on the average give you any kind of information that would help you find a solution to the desparity?

btw.....I'm not convinced the these averages you've cites indicate that the cranial capacity or the IQ is significantly lower enough to impare development or bahavior.

I'm still convinced the things you're trying to blame of inferiority are simply caused by a unique form of discrimination, and poverty.

a different tack? OK, I'm a Canadian. we are proud of being multicultural but we have the same problem incorporating blacks as the US does. do you think we are as deeply racist as Americans? Toronto has the biggest group of blacks and they had to drop zero tolerance in their schools because of the vastly disproportional discipline problem. they were even going to have all black schools until the optics proved insurmountable. if we cant find a successful solution, who can?

does it matter what the proportion of nature/nurture is? are we capable of changing either? does it help or hinder blacks to have a built in, all encompassing excuse for any failure? I think white trailer trash need to be supported as well as ghetto blacks. but no one makes excuses for low class whites, should we be so quick to excuse low class blacks? does taking the role of victim help or hinder. would incentives for achievement work better than just charity? its a difficult question but what we are doing isnt producing the results we would wish for.

 

[José]

Yidnar...

I have a question for you.

Do you think America should give automatic american citizenship to those white hispanics just like the state of Israel gives automatic israeli citizenship to Jews from all over the world?

Or should the US put them on the first plane and send them back to Latin America?

He'll probably say yes, as long as they are 100% white and not Black or Mestizo.

No shit, Sherlock.

I have a strange feeling that I've just wasted 2 precious minutes of my life asking the obvious

 

[Flagwavrusa]

Characteristics and Financial Circumstances - FY 2008

actually it is more than 6 times but that is nitpicking. why are blacks so vulnerable to being incapable of taking care of themselves? the numbers for using govt handout programs are even more skewed. why do so many blacks settle for a marginal parasitic lifestyle?

why do so many blacks fail to acquire lifeskills necessary for middleclass living? is it capability, substandard values and culture or is it just racism and lack of opportunity?

has affirmative action run into the brick wall of human capital? is it possible to drag more blacks into the middleclass by handing out more govt and AA jobs to underqualified minorities or have we reached the point of diminished returns?

IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT ABOUT 100% of them are descendent of slaves and direct descendent of those that had to struggle for there basic human rights until very recently and it takes generations to heal such wounds

Liberia was populated by American slaves as part of a back to Africa movement starting in the 1820s. THat's almost 200 years of self rule and you can go on to Youtube if you want to see what a country with a $250 per capita GDP looks like. Hint: the capital Monrovia lacks a sewer system and residents don't use the local beachfront for sunbathing.

 

[High_Gravity]

Characteristics and Financial Circumstances - FY 2008

actually it is more than 6 times but that is nitpicking. why are blacks so vulnerable to being incapable of taking care of themselves? the numbers for using govt handout programs are even more skewed. why do so many blacks settle for a marginal parasitic lifestyle?

why do so many blacks fail to acquire lifeskills necessary for middleclass living? is it capability, substandard values and culture or is it just racism and lack of opportunity?

has affirmative action run into the brick wall of human capital? is it possible to drag more blacks into the middleclass by handing out more govt and AA jobs to underqualified minorities or have we reached the point of diminished returns?

IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT ABOUT 100% of them are descendent of slaves and direct descendent of those that had to struggle for there basic human rights until very recently and it takes generations to heal such wounds

Liberia was populated by American slaves as part of a back to Africa movement starting in the 1820s. THat's almost 200 years of self rule and you can go on to Youtube if you want to see what a country with a $250 per capita GDP looks like. Hint: the capital Monrovia lacks a sewer system and residents don't use the local beachfront for sunbathing.

I don't think anyone can deny Liberia is a shit hole, American Blacks were not the only people in that country however.

 

[High_Gravity]

Also I should add I don't think its a given that a people with high intelligence will run a good successful country with a high standard of living, for example you can look at India and Vietnam, both the Indians and Vietnamese are known to be an intelligent people but large pockets of those countries are uninhabitable shit holes.

 

[Flagwavrusa]

Also I should add I don't think its a given that a people with high intelligence will run a good successful country with a high standard of living, for example you can look at India and Vietnam, both the Indians and Vietnamese are known to be an intelligent people but large pockets of those countries are uninhabitable shit holes.

India has less than 85 IQ average, so that explains the slums in places like Bombay and New Delhi.

I can't think of any countries with an IQ average around the hundred range or more where you find conditions like that in in India and Sub Saharan Africa. Certainly there are no countries like that in Europe.

The only exceptions would be economies hobbled by Communism like Veitnam and North Korea. But even a country with a high IQ population can't help but be impoverished under a controlled economy. Communism just doesnt work.

 

[High_Gravity]

Also I should add I don't think its a given that a people with high intelligence will run a good successful country with a high standard of living, for example you can look at India and Vietnam, both the Indians and Vietnamese are known to be an intelligent people but large pockets of those countries are uninhabitable shit holes.

India has less than 85 IQ average, so that explains the slums in places like Bombay and New Delhi.
I can't think of any countries with an IQ average around the hundred range or more where you find conditions like that in in India and Sub Saharan Africa. Certainly there are no countries like that in Europe.

The only exceptions would be economies hobbled by Communism like Veitnam and North Korea. But even a country with a high IQ population can't help but be impoverished under a controlled economy. Communism just doesnt work.

Hmm really? Indians for the most are pretty intelligent, even the guys I met in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia that were picking up trash on the street could speak at least 3 languages including Arabic and English. As far as Europe you might want to look at countries in the eastern bloc, from what I hear Ukraine, Albania and Uzbekistan are pretty shitty.

 

[toxicmedia]

IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT ABOUT 100% of them are descendent of slaves and direct descendent of those that had to struggle for there basic human rights until very recently and it takes generations to heal such wounds

Liberia was populated by American slaves as part of a back to Africa movement starting in the 1820s. THat's almost 200 years of self rule and you can go on to Youtube if you want to see what a country with a $250 per capita GDP looks like. Hint: the capital Monrovia lacks a sewer system and residents don't use the local beachfront for sunbathing.

I don't think anyone can deny Liberia is a shit hole, American Blacks were not the only people in that country however.

Let's see.......

....whaddya say we find a certain demographic that is easy identifyable by skin color, and kidnap them, then bring them to the USA to be slaves. Let's whip them, deny them education, work them inhumanly, then free them, or more apropriatly abandon them, then harrass, lynch, and unimaginablly discriminate againt them.......then send them back to the country where they were kidnapped. What kind of mental midget thinks those people would have gained something they can use positively in thier former country from the experience?

Sierra Leon, Liberia....that whole region is a shit hole. And it's not that way because blacks have a lower IQ or cranial capacity than whites in the US.

The stupidity from the more racist elements on this thread is astounding and freightening

 

[High_Gravity]

Liberia was populated by American slaves as part of a back to Africa movement starting in the 1820s. THat's almost 200 years of self rule and you can go on to Youtube if you want to see what a country with a $250 per capita GDP looks like. Hint: the capital Monrovia lacks a sewer system and residents don't use the local beachfront for sunbathing.

I don't think anyone can deny Liberia is a shit hole, American Blacks were not the only people in that country however.

Let's see.......

....whaddya say we find a certain demographic that is easy identifyable by skin color, and kidnap them, then bring them to the USA to be slaves. Let's whip them, deny them education, work them inhumanly, then free them, or more apropriatly abandon them, then harrass, lynch, and unimaginablly discriminate againt them.......then send them back to the country where they were kidnapped. What kind of mental midget thinks those people would have gained something they can use positively in thier former country from the experience?

Sierra Leon, Liberia....that whole region is a shit hole. And it's not that way because blacks have a lower IQ or cranial capacity than whites in the US.

The stupidity from the more racist elements on this thread is astounding and freightening

I agree 100%.

 

[toxicmedia]

well it might mean that white and black welfare recipients both have low intelligence.

a thought experiment. if you randomly pick a thousand blacks with IQ100 and compare them to a thousand whites with IQ85, which group would have more education, better jobs, more stable families, more success overall? obviously it would be the black group. you would be comparing groups in the top one sixth of blacks to the bottom one sixth of whites.

if you compare blacks and whites of equal IQ you find they have similar life paths. that is the realistic way of finding out whether racism and unfair opportunity are major hinderences to the progress of blacks. this has been done and it finds black women favoured to a small degree and black men disfavoured to a small degree. this is likely a result of socialization where black women fit into the dominant culture more easily.

Let me try a different tact.....

Even if you proved that blacks are intellectually challenged compared to other demographics....what will YOU do with that?.......I hope you know that most blacks I know would not be interested in getting help with that from you, even if they did have a lower IQ or cranial capacity.

The point here is that chronic manipulation of welfare is what needs to stop. Does knowing that blacks have lower IQ's on the average give you any kind of information that would help you find a solution to the desparity?

btw.....I'm not convinced the these averages you've cites indicate that the cranial capacity or the IQ is significantly lower enough to impare development or bahavior.

I'm still convinced the things you're trying to blame of inferiority are simply caused by a unique form of discrimination, and poverty.

a different tack? OK, I'm a Canadian. we are proud of being multicultural but we have the same problem incorporating blacks as the US does. do you think we are as deeply racist as Americans? Toronto has the biggest group of blacks and they had to drop zero tolerance in their schools because of the vastly disproportional discipline problem. they were even going to have all black schools until the optics proved insurmountable. if we cant find a successful solution, who can?

does it matter what the proportion of nature/nurture is? are we capable of changing either? does it help or hinder blacks to have a built in, all encompassing excuse for any failure? I think white trailer trash need to be supported as well as ghetto blacks. but no one makes excuses for low class whites, should we be so quick to excuse low class blacks? does taking the role of victim help or hinder. would incentives for achievement work better than just charity? its a difficult question but what we are doing isnt producing the results we would wish for.

First of all....I've excused nobody for abusing welfare. In fact...I have a hard time finding anyone, besides welfare abusers themselves, who "excuses" welfare fraud and abuse. They only people I see who are embracing the role of victim these days are conservatives who think they are doing black folks a favor by not calling them the "N" word or not deporting them back to Africa.

We = you and other people who are resentful towards blacks, yet are not in touch enough with your motives, or just plain too dishonest enough to admit it. And

"We"...or you.....should not have an opinion about what can be done about anything in the African American community. Even if what you "come up with" would work...I don't blame blacks one bit for telling you to go fly a kite. Nobody likes to feel berated and dissapproved of.

Let me try to clarify.....

Everyone has racist tendencies. I myself!......was in a grocery store a few years ago, and I was pushing the cart while my wife tossed groceries into the cart while babbling and wandering aimlessly. At one point I got a few feet away from the cart, and her purse. People passed by and I wasn't really even noticing them, then a black couple came walking by....I pulled the cart closer because only then did I remember I'd abandoned my wife's purse in the cart.

I'd like to think of myself as completely non bigoted....but I had to ask myself....why did I pull the cart coser only for the black couple?

It is things like this, and much worse, that shape the black experience in America and probably Canada too. How many times do you have to get treated like this before you say "fuck those guys", and then what if those guys approach you and say "we want to solve a problem, and that problem is you!"?

These are not excuses.....just something white people in Canada and the US cannot imagine. I know what it's like....when I stayed in Iran...I felt that stink eye from everyone you pass on the street, or interview for a job, and so on.

You should forget about blacks on welfare....you'll never be able to do something about it, and you shouldn't be trying, because your motives are going to be suspect. Like I said...someone without racial resentments would have created a thread that addresses welfare without addressing race...

 

[Flagwavrusa]

Liberia was populated by American slaves as part of a back to Africa movement starting in the 1820s. THat's almost 200 years of self rule and you can go on to Youtube if you want to see what a country with a $250 per capita GDP looks like. Hint: the capital Monrovia lacks a sewer system and residents don't use the local beachfront for sunbathing.

I don't think anyone can deny Liberia is a shit hole, American Blacks were not the only people in that country however.

Let's see.......

....whaddya say we find a certain demographic that is easy identifyable by skin color, and kidnap them, then bring them to the USA to be slaves. Let's whip them, deny them education, work them inhumanly, then free them, or more apropriatly abandon them, then harrass, lynch, and unimaginablly discriminate againt them.......then send them back to the country where they were kidnapped. What kind of mental midget thinks those people would have gained something they can use positively in thier former country from the experience?

Sierra Leon, Liberia....that whole region is a shit hole. And it's not that way because blacks have a lower IQ or cranial capacity than whites in the US.

The stupidity from the more racist elements on this thread is astounding and freightening

50 years ago Africa was more economically developed than Asia, because of colonialism. Today Asia is an economic powerhouse and Africa remains the most underdeveloped area of the world with no hope in sight. Both continents were formerly under colonial rule, both have ample natural resources, so what can explain the different outcomes during the past half century? I don't think it's a coincidence that Asians register considerably higher IQ.

Frankly, given the empirically verified link between IQ and economic achievement, I think you are very hard pressed to come up with a better explanation to account for Liberia and the rest of SSA. Saying it's because their ancestors 8 generations removed endured hardship really doesn't hold water. If that could really have an effect on IQ, then Europeans should have higher IQs than Asians, in light of their more advantaged economic history.

 

[High_Gravity]

I don't think anyone can deny Liberia is a shit hole, American Blacks were not the only people in that country however.

Let's see.......

....whaddya say we find a certain demographic that is easy identifyable by skin color, and kidnap them, then bring them to the USA to be slaves. Let's whip them, deny them education, work them inhumanly, then free them, or more apropriatly abandon them, then harrass, lynch, and unimaginablly discriminate againt them.......then send them back to the country where they were kidnapped. What kind of mental midget thinks those people would have gained something they can use positively in thier former country from the experience?

Sierra Leon, Liberia....that whole region is a shit hole. And it's not that way because blacks have a lower IQ or cranial capacity than whites in the US.

The stupidity from the more racist elements on this thread is astounding and freightening

50 years ago Africa was more economically developed than Asia, because of colonialism. Today Asia is an economic powerhouse and Africa remains the most underdeveloped area of the world with no hope in sight. Both continents were formerly under colonial rule, both have ample natural resources, so what can explain the different outcomes during the past half century? I don't think it's a coincidence that Asians register considerably higher IQ.

Frankly, given the empirically verified link between IQ and economic achievement, I think you are very hard pressed to come up with a better explanation to account for Liberia and the rest of SSA. Saying it's because their ancestors 8 generations removed endured hardship really doesn't hold water. If that could really have an effect on IQ, then Europeans should have higher IQs than Asians, in light of their more advantaged economic history.

Not all of Asia is doing well, quite a few of those countries are shit holes not much better than Africa regardless of the intelligence of the people there.

 

[IanC]

Let me try a different tact.....

Even if you proved that blacks are intellectually challenged compared to other demographics....what will YOU do with that?.......I hope you know that most blacks I know would not be interested in getting help with that from you, even if they did have a lower IQ or cranial capacity.

The point here is that chronic manipulation of welfare is what needs to stop. Does knowing that blacks have lower IQ's on the average give you any kind of information that would help you find a solution to the desparity?

btw.....I'm not convinced the these averages you've cites indicate that the cranial capacity or the IQ is significantly lower enough to impare development or bahavior.

I'm still convinced the things you're trying to blame of inferiority are simply caused by a unique form of discrimination, and poverty.

a different tack? OK, I'm a Canadian. we are proud of being multicultural but we have the same problem incorporating blacks as the US does. do you think we are as deeply racist as Americans? Toronto has the biggest group of blacks and they had to drop zero tolerance in their schools because of the vastly disproportional discipline problem. they were even going to have all black schools until the optics proved insurmountable. if we cant find a successful solution, who can?

does it matter what the proportion of nature/nurture is? are we capable of changing either? does it help or hinder blacks to have a built in, all encompassing excuse for any failure? I think white trailer trash need to be supported as well as ghetto blacks. but no one makes excuses for low class whites, should we be so quick to excuse low class blacks? does taking the role of victim help or hinder. would incentives for achievement work better than just charity? its a difficult question but what we are doing isnt producing the results we would wish for.

First of all....I've excused nobody for abusing welfare. In fact...I have a hard time finding anyone, besides welfare abusers themselves, who "excuses" welfare fraud and abuse. They only people I see who are embracing the role of victim these days are conservatives who think they are doing black folks a favor by not calling them the "N" word or not deporting them back to Africa.

We = you and other people who are resentful towards blacks, yet are not in touch enough with your motives, or just plain too dishonest enough to admit it. And

"We"...or you.....should not have an opinion about what can be done about anything in the African American community. Even if what you "come up with" would work...I don't blame blacks one bit for telling you to go fly a kite. Nobody likes to feel berated and dissapproved of.

Let me try to clarify.....

Everyone has racist tendencies. I myself!......was in a grocery store a few years ago, and I was pushing the cart while my wife tossed groceries into the cart while babbling and wandering aimlessly. At one point I got a few feet away from the cart, and her purse. People passed by and I wasn't really even noticing them, then a black couple came walking by....I pulled the cart closer because only then did I remember I'd abandoned my wife's purse in the cart.

I'd like to think of myself as completely non bigoted....but I had to ask myself....why did I pull the cart coser only for the black couple?

It is things like this, and much worse, that shape the black experience in America and probably Canada too. How many times do you have to get treated like this before you say "fuck those guys", and then what if those guys approach you and say "we want to solve a problem, and that problem is you!"?

These are not excuses.....just something white people in Canada and the US cannot imagine. I know what it's like....when I stayed in Iran...I felt that stink eye from everyone you pass on the street, or interview for a job, and so on.

You should forget about blacks on welfare....you'll never be able to do something about it, and you shouldn't be trying, because your motives are going to be suspect. Like I said...someone without racial resentments would have created a thread that addresses welfare without addressing race...

Im just trying to find some common ground for us to discuss. you have dismossed intelligence out of hand although I believe it to be the largest factor involved and it easily explains most of any disparities.

you say it is a carry over of slavery and continuing racism. how do injuries carry over to the present? is it genetic, cultural, what? can we ameliorate thos supposed injuries? is there some mechanism that we can disrupt and reset the situation like rebooting a computer? do you think the disparities are there because we notice the disparities? humans are evolved to notice their surroundings, as long as blacks are a mismatch to societal norms it will be noticed and acted upon. is it hopeless? how do we explain away the lower abilities of young black children entering kindergarten? are parents or society to blame? how much should whites today be held responsible for injuries done in the past. how much should uninjured blacks be given today for past injuries done to people that may not even be their ancestors? how much is owed to the Jews for unfair treatment last century? who should pay? do they have a right of return for all their property confiscated at the time of Israel's formation? who would get it? I cant see how we can settle the score for past wrongs, especially by renumeration. we have tried racial quotas and they cause as many problems as they solve. I think we should go out of our way to help blacks who show promise and effort, more because there are fewer of them proportionally than because they are 'owed' anything. it helps society to reduce disparities but society didnt cause them, mother nature did.

 

[IanC]

Let's see.......

....whaddya say we find a certain demographic that is easy identifyable by skin color, and kidnap them, then bring them to the USA to be slaves. Let's whip them, deny them education, work them inhumanly, then free them, or more apropriatly abandon them, then harrass, lynch, and unimaginablly discriminate againt them.......then send them back to the country where they were kidnapped. What kind of mental midget thinks those people would have gained something they can use positively in thier former country from the experience?

Sierra Leon, Liberia....that whole region is a shit hole. And it's not that way because blacks have a lower IQ or cranial capacity than whites in the US.

The stupidity from the more racist elements on this thread is astounding and freightening

50 years ago Africa was more economically developed than Asia, because of colonialism. Today Asia is an economic powerhouse and Africa remains the most underdeveloped area of the world with no hope in sight. Both continents were formerly under colonial rule, both have ample natural resources, so what can explain the different outcomes during the past half century? I don't think it's a coincidence that Asians register considerably higher IQ.

Frankly, given the empirically verified link between IQ and economic achievement, I think you are very hard pressed to come up with a better explanation to account for Liberia and the rest of SSA. Saying it's because their ancestors 8 generations removed endured hardship really doesn't hold water. If that could really have an effect on IQ, then Europeans should have higher IQs than Asians, in light of their more advantaged economic history.

Not all of Asia is doing well, quite a few of those countries are shit holes not much better than Africa regardless of the intelligence of the people there.

true. it is probably unfair to compare other countries to white western democracies. or even white western democracies of 100, 200 years ago to today. thankfully they have been around to show the way.

 

[Tank]

Africans in America are living in a world they could have never dreamed of on their own.