Why Do Americans Love to Blame Teachers?

[Samson]

One of the problems often overlooked is that students are different in abilities, for every student with an IQ over 100 there is another student with an IQ under 100.

How would this have any bearing on whether or not teachers are liked more or less?

 

[Rikurzhen]

Know who teachers dislike? Administrators.

Another worthwhile thread.

People hate teachers because they're not delivering the goods. America used to be #1. WTF is wrong with teachers, why are they letting us down? Look at how dismally the US is doing. It's all the teacher's fault, and we spend so much money on education, too, and they're just screwing it all up. That's why people hate teachers.

Except, it's not teachers' fault. Look at the corrected scores.

Finally.

However you ignore the main point in the OP: American Students have no appreciation (culture) for education.

You could pay teachers more. You could have genius teachers. You could have the best "SYSTEM."

Students simply don't give a fuck.

But Wally and Beaver still give a fuck. .

Terrific, but that's not what was found in the OP, nor is it much of a sampling of the aggregate.

There was nothing found in the OP. The linked article was an awful piece of journalism and Goldsmith doesn't really appear to know much about education. She has a thesis that she's advancing and she's selectively using evidence in support of that thesis. Her thesis is that teachers are targeted for criticism and she recounts instances of this occurring. She apparently doesn't delve into the question of whether the criticisms were warranted or not. That's the angle I find interesting. If that bores you, fine, we can let this conversation die and someone else can refocus the thread on how society attacks teachers.

 

[regent]

One of the problems often overlooked is that students are different in abilities, for every student with an IQ over 100 there is another student with an IQ under 100.

How would this have any bearing on whether or not teachers are liked more or less?

Students that do well in school tend to like school and their teachers more than those that don't do well. Which students tend to drop school before graduation, which students tend to become discipline problems and so on.

 

[Samson]

One of the problems often overlooked is that students are different in abilities, for every student with an IQ over 100 there is another student with an IQ under 100.

How would this have any bearing on whether or not teachers are liked more or less?

Students that do well in school tend to like school and their teachers more than those that don't do well. Which students tend to drop school before graduation, which students tend to become discipline problems and so on.

So you're saying that if all students had a high IQ, then teachers wouldn't be so universally hated, and this option needs more investigation.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows that public school students have a wide range of IQ.

I'm also quite certain that the Public School is open to, well, The Public, and this is not a revelation to anyone.

I agree, take students out of the school, and teachers would be better liked.

 

[regent]

One of the problems often overlooked is that students are different in abilities, for every student with an IQ over 100 there is another student with an IQ under 100.

How would this have any bearing on whether or not teachers are liked more or less?

Students that do well in school tend to like school and their teachers more than those that don't do well. Which students tend to drop school before graduation, which students tend to become discipline problems and so on.

So you're saying that if all students had a high IQ, then teachers wouldn't be so universally hated, and this option needs more investigation.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows that public school students have a wide range of IQ.

I'm also quite certain that the Public School is open to, well, The Public, and this is not a revelation to anyone.

I agree, take students out of the school, and teachers would be better liked.

No, when we take children and put them groups, grade them, classify them and tell them they are doing great or poorly, it just might have an effect on how they feel about school, and maybe even education.

 

[Samson]

One of the problems often overlooked is that students are different in abilities, for every student with an IQ over 100 there is another student with an IQ under 100.

How would this have any bearing on whether or not teachers are liked more or less?

Students that do well in school tend to like school and their teachers more than those that don't do well. Which students tend to drop school before graduation, which students tend to become discipline problems and so on.

So you're saying that if all students had a high IQ, then teachers wouldn't be so universally hated, and this option needs more investigation.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows that public school students have a wide range of IQ.

I'm also quite certain that the Public School is open to, well, The Public, and this is not a revelation to anyone.

I agree, take students out of the school, and teachers would be better liked.

No, when we take children and put them groups, grade them, classify them and tell them they are doing great or poorly, it just might have an effect on how they feel about school, and maybe even education.

Why would classifying them as Advanced, and telling them they're doing great make them hate teachers?

 

[bodecea]

One of the problems often overlooked is that students are different in abilities, for every student with an IQ over 100 there is another student with an IQ under 100.

How would this have any bearing on whether or not teachers are liked more or less?

Students that do well in school tend to like school and their teachers more than those that don't do well. Which students tend to drop school before graduation, which students tend to become discipline problems and so on.

So you're saying that if all students had a high IQ, then teachers wouldn't be so universally hated, and this option needs more investigation.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows that public school students have a wide range of IQ.

I'm also quite certain that the Public School is open to, well, The Public, and this is not a revelation to anyone.

I agree, take students out of the school, and teachers would be better liked.

No, when we take children and put them groups, grade them, classify them and tell them they are doing great or poorly, it just might have an effect on how they feel about school, and maybe even education.

Sounds like someone wants to worry more about the little darlings' self esteem than actually expected them to accomplish something.

 

[Samson]

One of the problems often overlooked is that students are different in abilities, for every student with an IQ over 100 there is another student with an IQ under 100.

How would this have any bearing on whether or not teachers are liked more or less?

Students that do well in school tend to like school and their teachers more than those that don't do well. Which students tend to drop school before graduation, which students tend to become discipline problems and so on.

So you're saying that if all students had a high IQ, then teachers wouldn't be so universally hated, and this option needs more investigation.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows that public school students have a wide range of IQ.

I'm also quite certain that the Public School is open to, well, The Public, and this is not a revelation to anyone.

I agree, take students out of the school, and teachers would be better liked.

No, when we take children and put them groups, grade them, classify them and tell them they are doing great or poorly, it just might have an effect on how they feel about school, and maybe even education.

Sounds like someone wants to worry more about the little darlings' self esteem than actually expected them to accomplish something.

How do Finland, Poland, or South Korea teachers considered students' self-esteem?

 

[regent]

I

One of the problems often overlooked is that students are different in abilities, for every student with an IQ over 100 there is another student with an IQ under 100.

How would this have any bearing on whether or not teachers are liked more or less?

Students that do well in school tend to like school and their teachers more than those that don't do well. Which students tend to drop school before graduation, which students tend to become discipline problems and so on.

So you're saying that if all students had a high IQ, then teachers wouldn't be so universally hated, and this option needs more investigation.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows that public school students have a wide range of IQ.

I'm also quite certain that the Public School is open to, well, The Public, and this is not a revelation to anyone.

I agree, take students out of the school, and teachers would be better liked.

No, when we take children and put them groups, grade them, classify them and tell them they are doing great or poorly, it just might have an effect on how they feel about school, and maybe even education.

Sounds like someone wants to worry more about the little darlings' self esteem than actually expected them to accomplish something.

How do Finland, Poland, or South Korea teachers considered students' self-esteem?

Why not ask them? Let us know their answer.

 

[DGS49]

Why do Americans Love to Blame Teachers?

Let me count the reasons:

Teachers are government workers, often unionized, and thus essentially immune from removal except in the most eggregious cases. They want to be paid as "professionals," and yet their working "arrangement" is about as far from professional as it would be possible to be.

Teachers work part time. Not half-time, certainly, but not full-time either, and yet in any discussion of teacher compensation they howl like banshees when one points out that they get most of June, all of July, and all of August off, plus a goodly number of days between September and May. 180, 6-hour days per year, generally. Are you serious? They want full-time compensation for a 75% job.

Teachers stridently avoid being evaluated on a quantitative basis, and NOBODY is so stupid that they don't see through this ruse. They claim that any quantitative analysis would be unfair because they can't control the students' home life. And yet every area of competence in life is beset with uncontrollable factors and we (the rest of us) all manage to be evaluated with some allowance for factors over which we have no control. You mean to tell me that 10 competent teachers, sitting in a room, couldnt figure out a way to evaluate other teachers fairly? Get serious. They don't want to be evaluated because many of them would be found, "wanting."

Anyone who has been to college knows that Education majors (and Education Deparments) are the bottom of the barrel. 'Education' as a major should be abolished. If you want to teach MATH, for Christ sake, get a degree in MATH (not 24 credits, as most school districts require), and take a couple education courses on the side.

Science and math education in American Public schools is generally horrible. And yet it is impossible to offer, let's say, a mid-career Electrical Engineer a job as a high school physics teacher at a reasonable salary because of absurd barriers to entry and an inflexible payscale. So Johnny is taught Physics by a woman with a degree in "Education," who took a couple course in "Physical Sciences" in college.

And I'm running out to time, but I cannot omit the fact that America's teachers and their absurd retirement and healthcare benefits (retire at 50!) will presently be bankrupting about half the states and school districts - and taxpayers - in the U.S.

 

[initforme]

You aren't going to attract even a mid career electrical engineer a job in teaching because they would end up sacrificing their income potential. There are a lot of good teachers out there contrary to your post and their so called excuse "absurd retirement and healthcare benefits" are the only reasons those teachers can even afford to stick around. You want to attract the very best to teach then you had better be willing to pay a ton more than the pittance they make now.

 

[shart_attack]

Because teachers are ASSHOLES.

 

[jasonnfree]

Why do Americans Love to Blame Teachers?

Let me count the reasons:

Teachers are government workers, often unionized, and thus essentially immune from removal except in the most eggregious cases. They want to be paid as "professionals," and yet their working "arrangement" is about as far from professional as it would be possible to be.

Teachers work part time. Not half-time, certainly, but not full-time either, and yet in any discussion of teacher compensation they howl like banshees when one points out that they get most of June, all of July, and all of August off, plus a goodly number of days between September and May. 180, 6-hour days per year, generally. Are you serious? They want full-time compensation for a 75% job.

Teachers stridently avoid being evaluated on a quantitative basis, and NOBODY is so stupid that they don't see through this ruse. They claim that any quantitative analysis would be unfair because they can't control the students' home life. And yet every area of competence in life is beset with uncontrollable factors and we (the rest of us) all manage to be evaluated with some allowance for factors over which we have no control. You mean to tell me that 10 competent teachers, sitting in a room, couldnt figure out a way to evaluate other teachers fairly? Get serious. They don't want to be evaluated because many of them would be found, "wanting."

Anyone who has been to college knows that Education majors (and Education Deparments) are the bottom of the barrel. 'Education' as a major should be abolished. If you want to teach MATH, for Christ sake, get a degree in MATH (not 24 credits, as most school districts require), and take a couple education courses on the side.

Science and math education in American Public schools is generally horrible. And yet it is impossible to offer, let's say, a mid-career Electrical Engineer a job as a high school physics teacher at a reasonable salary because of absurd barriers to entry and an inflexible payscale. So Johnny is taught Physics by a woman with a degree in "Education," who took a couple course in "Physical Sciences" in college.

And I'm running out to time, but I cannot omit the fact that America's teachers and their absurd retirement and healthcare benefits (retire at 50!) will presently be bankrupting about half the states and school districts - and taxpayers - in the U.S.

It's really not that hard to get rid of a teacher, although there are always exceptions. A person can retire early in many jobs but the monthly pension is less. What's your experience that's set you on this anti union teacher mission anyway? Why do you resent someone having a decent pension after decades of service?

 

[initforme]

"
Click to expand...
It's really not that hard to get rid of a teacher, although there are always exceptions. A person can retire early in many jobs but the monthly pension is less. What's your experience that's set you on this anti union teacher mission anyway? Why do you resent someone having a decent pension after decades of service?"

Great question. Somehow a teacher making $40,000 a year is a threat or vermin. Makes zero sense. Empty rhetoric. The public schools my kids attended were great and did more for more kids than I ever imagined. No they all aren't good but there are many good ones.

 

[Samson]

I

One of the problems often overlooked is that students are different in abilities, for every student with an IQ over 100 there is another student with an IQ under 100.

How would this have any bearing on whether or not teachers are liked more or less?

Students that do well in school tend to like school and their teachers more than those that don't do well. Which students tend to drop school before graduation, which students tend to become discipline problems and so on.

So you're saying that if all students had a high IQ, then teachers wouldn't be so universally hated, and this option needs more investigation.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows that public school students have a wide range of IQ.

I'm also quite certain that the Public School is open to, well, The Public, and this is not a revelation to anyone.

I agree, take students out of the school, and teachers would be better liked.

No, when we take children and put them groups, grade them, classify them and tell them they are doing great or poorly, it just might have an effect on how they feel about school, and maybe even education.

Sounds like someone wants to worry more about the little darlings' self esteem than actually expected them to accomplish something.

How do Finland, Poland, or South Korea teachers considered students' self-esteem?

Why not ask them? Let us know their answer.

You don't know?

Clearly the gap between reality and your knowledge is much wider than I'd anticipated.

The answer is they don't give a fuck.

 

[RKMBrown]

Why Do Americans Love to Blame Teachers?
Healthcare has its critics, but few of them are calling for doctors to be replaced. Education is different—and as a new book reveals, it has been throughout U.S. history.

Why Do Americans Love to Blame Teachers - The Atlantic

As long as we have parents who refuse to be involved in their children's education or those parents who wish to impose ultra liberal or far right reactionary values on the rest of us, the war will continue.

Cause most of the teachers suck. Our tenure based libtard union run education system needs to be burned to the ground.

 

[initforme]

"Our tenure based libtard union run education system needs to be burned to the ground.".

I agree. Time to start paying them. Perhaps a conservative approach will include a much higher pay structure.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Most teachers are pretty good. What sucks are parents who don't care enough to be involved with their children at school. Next are school administrators and Dept of Ed and Colleges of Ed that are making money and perks off the feds to fatten their job security.

Return to local control. Allow children to learn and teachers to teach. Mandate parental involvement if children want to be involved in sports, ag, cheer, etc. If the parents won't, recruit adult sponsors for children who want to participate in extracurricular.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Why Do Americans Love to Blame Teachers?
Healthcare has its critics, but few of them are calling for doctors to be replaced. Education is different—and as a new book reveals, it has been throughout U.S. history.

Why Do Americans Love to Blame Teachers - The Atlantic

As long as we have parents who refuse to be involved in their children's education or those parents who wish to impose ultra liberal or far right reactionary values on the rest of us, the war will continue.

Cause most of the teachers suck. Our tenure based libtard union run education system needs to be burned to the ground.

On t his issue, RMK, you are simply blathering.

 

[RKMBrown]

Why Do Americans Love to Blame Teachers?
Healthcare has its critics, but few of them are calling for doctors to be replaced. Education is different—and as a new book reveals, it has been throughout U.S. history.

Why Do Americans Love to Blame Teachers - The Atlantic

As long as we have parents who refuse to be involved in their children's education or those parents who wish to impose ultra liberal or far right reactionary values on the rest of us, the war will continue.

Cause most of the teachers suck. Our tenure based libtard union run education system needs to be burned to the ground.

On t his issue, RMK, you are simply blathering.

I was blathering because I'm angry.

I went to pre-school, elementary school, middle school, high school, and college. Almost every single one of the teachers I had sucked. Every single one of those schools had a tenure system. My measure of quality might not be the same as yours.

I don't excuse the teachers for the problems in the system because the teachers are a part of the system. You may blame the parents as an excuse for the teachers... I don't. The problem is the entire system that promotes failure and punishes success. You want to be a great teacher? You have to leave the system. You want to be a great student? You have to leave the system. You want to be a failure as a teacher or student? Well then this system is for you.