Why can't Public Assistance increase?

[Ray From Cleveland]

Because YOU say so?

No, because the market says so.

An employee is only worth as much as the next person willing to take that job and do the same quality of work. That's why if you need more money, government force is not the answer. The answer is to get into a line of work that not everybody can do. The less replaceable you are by an employer, the more money you are worth.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The marketplace is fixed.

If you feel the marketplace is fixed, then don't get involved in it. Work for yourself.

 

[OnePercenter]

Does a fire dispatcher require any more education than a McDonalds employee?

No, they don't. But government often overpays their employees. That's why people try to get government jobs.

No, they don't. But government often overpays their employees. That's why people try to get government jobs.

Which job is overpaid?

 

[OnePercenter]

Quite a lot when you place your order at a push button kiosk, swipe your card to pay, have a machine grind the beef, cook your burger, assemble it, bag it and put it in the window for you to take and a roomba comes out after hours to sweep and mop the floor. IOW, there's little actual need for human interaction at tomorrow's McDonalds, and within 20 years you likely won't see a whole lot of employees working there. The biggest job will be for the guy who keeps the machines running and calls tech support. Of course, most machines can call tech support themselves, so not much need for that either.

And when one machine breaks, you close.

LMFAO.... As opposed to now, when the absolute geniuses at Mickey D's jump right in there and fix the broken shake machine instead of telling the customer... "our machine broke, sorry!"

LMFAO.... As opposed to now, when the absolute geniuses at Mickey D's jump right in there and fix the broken shake machine instead of telling the customer... "our machine broke, sorry!"

LMFAO......McDonalds stores have more than one shake machine. See how little you know?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Which job is overpaid?

Most all of them. They may not be overpaid in wages, but they are in benefits.

Our company hires retirees to drive delivery vans. We have two of them; both worked for government and both retired at the age of 55 with full pension and medical benefits. You don't get that in the private market very much. Once you retire, you go on SS and medicare. And you sure as hell don't retire at the age of 55.

 

[OnePercenter]

Does a fire dispatcher require any more education than a McDonalds employee?

It makes no difference at all regarding what the job is worth. Even if working at McDonalds required a PhD in Chemistry, it wouldn't be worth much because most of us don't value burgers that much. You should really think about this, because I think it's key to your confusion on this issue.

It makes no difference at all regarding what the job is worth. Even if working at McDonalds required a PhD in Chemistry, it wouldn't be worth much because most of us don't value burgers that much. You should really think about this, because I think it's key to your confusion on this issue.

WTF? Because YOU don't value burgers, employees of burger joints shouldn't be paid a living wage?

Try reading it again. You can do it.

Try reading it again. You can do it.

You come off as a self-centered prick

 

[OnePercenter]

The goal and objective is record profit, usually more than the worth of the service and product.

Here's another opportunity to learn some basic economics. It's impossible to sell anything for more (or less) than it's worth. In fact, every single voluntary transaction is an agreement between two parties on what something is worth.

Here's another opportunity to learn some basic economics. It's impossible to sell anything for more (or less) than it's worth. In fact, every single voluntary transaction is an agreement between two parties on what something is worth

More bloviating

What? Too many big words?

What? Too many big words?

'Worth' is subjective so your post is bloviating.

 

[Markle]

My argument is that any employer that doesn't pay a living wage IS a bully.

bully 1 |ˈbo͝olē|
noun (pl. bullies)

a person who uses strength or power to harm or intimidate those who are weaker.verb (bullies, bullying, bullied) [ with obj. ] use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to dowhat one wants: a local man was bullied into helping them.

Now please explain to the class how a person who offers a job at X amount of money to a willing applicant fits this definition.

bully 1 |ˈbo͝olē|
noun (pl. bullies)

a person who uses strength or power to harm or intimidate those who are weaker.verb (bullies, bullying, bullied) [ with obj. ] use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to dowhat one wants: a local man was bullied into helping them.

Now please explain to the class how a person who offers a job at X amount of money to a willing applicant fits this definition.

You don't think a business person doesn't know how much her/his competitors are paying. A prospective employees visits 5 or 6 businesses all paying the same shit pay. They need a job, And there is your superior strength or influence to intimidate.

 

[Markle]

I don't think can make it mandatory that you yourself contribute. Generally it has to be done one of the two ways so far as I know--either the employer sets a match ceiling or the employer contributes a set percentage whether you do or not. In the latter case, your funds will probably go into a default account--usually a money market account--until you go in and allocate it to something else.

I guess we'll find out if they can or not. I truly believe they'll try to force it during Union negotiations next spring.

Quit, get another job. Problem solved.

 

[Markle]

Why shouldn't McDonalds pay a living wage, after all, they are making BIG bucks.

 

[Slyhunter]

WTF? Because YOU don't value burgers, employees of burger joints shouldn't be paid a living wage?

No, they shouldn't be making a livable wage because their work is not worth a livable wage.

No, they shouldn't be making a livable wage because their work is not worth a livable wage.

Because YOU say so?

So they don't deserve life you say.

 

[dblack]

Does a fire dispatcher require any more education than a McDonalds employee?

It makes no difference at all regarding what the job is worth. Even if working at McDonalds required a PhD in Chemistry, it wouldn't be worth much because most of us don't value burgers that much. You should really think about this, because I think it's key to your confusion on this issue.

It makes no difference at all regarding what the job is worth. Even if working at McDonalds required a PhD in Chemistry, it wouldn't be worth much because most of us don't value burgers that much. You should really think about this, because I think it's key to your confusion on this issue.

WTF? Because YOU don't value burgers, employees of burger joints shouldn't be paid a living wage?

Try reading it again. You can do it.

Try reading it again. You can do it.

You come off as a self-centered prick

I'm sorry to hear that. I just don't like arguments based on mis-stating someone else's position. I didn't say employees of burger joints shouldn't be paid a living wage because I don't value burgers. I said that the amount of education required for a given job has no bearing on what it's worth to employers and consumers. The wages for burger flippers are low because we ( not me, but society as a whole ) don't value the burgers they're flipping that much. It's not a matter of 'should', it's just a neutral fact. Society doesn't place much value on burger flipping, so it's hard to make a living doing that job.

We can't change that by passing a law. We can increase minimum wage, with the delusion that this will force employers to pay their employees more, but it won't change the fact that we don't value burger flipping that much and don't really think burger flipping is worth a 'living wage'. I'll reiterate that this is not my judgement. It is the judgement of society.

 

[OnePercenter]

*Sigh* ...I don't know of ANY corporation that intentionally spends capital they don't need to. The goal and objective of all capitalists is profit. In their board meetings, no one is saying... hey, we're making too much profit here, let's find something wasteful to blow money on so our profits aren't so high next year!

So you are asking me a straw man question. It has nothing to do with the point I made.

The goal and objective is record profit, usually more than the worth of the service and product.

Again... you continue to be amazingly wrong for a guy who claims to have made a fortune in business. I honestly don't think you have the business acumen to run a lemonade stand.

No... the goal and objective of all capitalists is to make profit. RECORD profits are a bonus and they usually mean bonuses.

Most corporations I have been associated with have a profit increase target of 10% annually. Anything below 10% growth is not sufficiently keeping up with competition and that's a problem.

Again... you continue to be amazingly wrong for a guy who claims to have made a fortune in business. I honestly don't think you have the business acumen to run a lemonade stand.

No... the goal and objective of all capitalists is to make profit. RECORD profits are a bonus and they usually mean bonuses.

Most corporations I have been associated with have a profit increase target of 10% annually. Anything below 10% growth is not sufficiently keeping up with competition and that's a problem.

Wrong. After the visa card economy of BushCo, investors demand record profits.

 

[OnePercenter]

The goal and objective is record profit, usually more than the worth of the service and product.

Here's another opportunity to learn some basic economics. It's impossible to sell anything for more (or less) than it's worth. In fact, every single voluntary transaction is an agreement between two parties on what something is worth.

Here's another opportunity to learn some basic economics. It's impossible to sell anything for more (or less) than it's worth. In fact, every single voluntary transaction is an agreement between two parties on what something is worth

More bloviating

What? Too many big words?

the liberal mind is incapable of basic logic and reason. Its a form of mental illness.

the liberal mind is incapable of basic logic and reason. Its a form of mental illness.

More bloviating.

 

[Markle]

Have you ever been to Japan? Tokyo is the cleanest city in the world, know why? because they make the poor clean the streets in exchange for their food and lodging.

^^^This and more.^^^

I lived in Japan for two years. The Japanese culture sets them far, far apart from what we have created in America. The Japanese still possess honor and shame. A large segment of Americans have not been raised with those precious social values in generations.

It is painful to be poor and unemployed in Japan which is healthy for a society. Japanese kids grow up wanting to succeed to bring honor to their family and at all costs avoid bringing shame upon their family and themselves.

Poor people on the street in Japan are outcasts and examples of dishonor. It's harsh by our standards but then we've let our standards rot. We pay people not to work and allow illegal aliens to dilute and devalue our low end labor market.

For something like two decades now, Japan has tried to "buy" its way out of their recession. Without success. They may have a very different culture than ours, but they are also very broke.

 

[OnePercenter]

Why shouldn't every job 'pay?'

Because every job isn't worth 'paying' for.

Because every job isn't worth 'paying' for.

Name one.

All of them, if the prospective employee has no appreciable skills.

All of them, if the prospective employee has no appreciable skills.

So you hire a person with no skills and don't pay him for a job that doesn't exist?

You've never heard of internships?

You've never heard of internships?

Paid OK. Non-paid, a rip-off

 

[OnePercenter]

By the way, 1%er, not sure if you saw my earlier question. In your view, should self-employed business owners be required to pay themselves a 'living wage'?

You should make a minimum of two to three times or more what you made as an employee.

Ahh.. ok, so, in your view, minimum wage for self-employed person should be even higher than it is for regular employees? What if they fail to pay themselves this minimum, what should the penalty be? A fine? Jail time?

Ahh.. ok, so, in your view, minimum wage for self-employed person should be even higher than it is for regular employees? What if they fail to pay themselves this minimum, what should the penalty be? A fine? Jail time?

What I stated is that you should make a minimum of two to three times or more what you made as an employee.

 

[Markle]

WTF? Because YOU don't value burgers, employees of burger joints shouldn't be paid a living wage?

No, they shouldn't be making a livable wage because their work is not worth a livable wage.

No, they shouldn't be making a livable wage because their work is not worth a livable wage.

Because YOU say so?

I have no clue what you consider a livable wage.

I do know that if someone doesn't bother to put in the effort to be WORTH a lot to an employer, how are they worth anything?

 

[dblack]

Because every job isn't worth 'paying' for.

Because every job isn't worth 'paying' for.

Name one.

All of them, if the prospective employee has no appreciable skills.

All of them, if the prospective employee has no appreciable skills.

So you hire a person with no skills and don't pay him for a job that doesn't exist?

You've never heard of internships?

You've never heard of internships?

Paid OK. Non-paid, a rip-off

Whether a low, or no, pay internship is worthwhile is, as we've been discussing, a subjective evaluation. Obviously, some people think an internship is a worthwhile opportunity. Would you make those illegal as well?

 

[OnePercenter]

By the way, 1%er, not sure if you saw my earlier question. In your view, should self-employed business owners be required to pay themselves a 'living wage'?

You should make a minimum of two to three times or more what you made as an employee.

Ahh.. ok, so, in your view, minimum wage for self-employed person should be even higher than it is for regular employees? What if they fail to pay themselves this minimum, what should the penalty be? A fine? Jail time?

This statement of his proves that he has never started a business.

I just started a business about a year ago. It's a bistro in a small town. My staff makes more money than me. In fact, I am actually losing money at this point. The business is doing fine... another year, and I will be making a decent profit... by decent, I mean that I won't be losing money anymore. But it takes a lot of time and patience to grow a business and turn a profit.

This statement of his proves that he has never started a business.

I just started a business about a year ago. It's a bistro in a small town. My staff makes more money than me. In fact, I am actually losing money at this point. The business is doing fine... another year, and I will be making a decent profit... by decent, I mean that I won't be losing money anymore. But it takes a lot of time and patience to grow a business and turn a profit.

If you were correctly financed why would you not be making money?