Why Bill Russell is the NBA GOAT

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

The golden age of basketball was the 1980s thanks to magic johnson and larry bird

its never been better and never will be

I can't discount that, even though I have an 80's bias.. pre ESPN indoctrination.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

The golden age of basketball was the 1980s thanks to magic johnson and larry bird

its never been better and never will be

Would you compare Bird vs. Magic to McGwire vs. Sosa as far as resurrecting a major US sport? The NBA was nuked by coke in the late 70's and on the complete down-turn until Magic and Bird re-ignited the league, just as McGwire/Sosa led the magical magic carpet ride towards baseball immortality when they did.

 

[Mac-7]

Would you compare Bird vs. Magic to McGwire vs. Sosa as far as resurrecting a major US sport? The NBA was nuked by coke in the late 70's and on the complete down-turn until Magic and Bird re-ignited the league, just as McGwire/Sosa led the magical magic carpet ride towards baseball immortality when they did.

I’m not a fan of McGwire/Sosa because of the steroids

America no longer follows baseball the way it did as late as the 1970s

MLB has been replaced by the NFL as the national pastime even if the players are ungrateful little pussies

 

[rightwinger]

Who won championships with 7 teams?

Oh.. another misinformation stat by you. Color me surprised.

I love talking bball.. but sadly you're clearly a troll-joke. You're pissed off for some reason, you should calm down and enjoy life. Until you realize this... I'll stop responding to your troll attempts. What a sorry hack, so pissed off but trying to convince himself that he's getting the better of someone online. Totally loser-ville LMAO

Lets see what was behind Russells 11 Championships

The Celtics had six HOF players in an eight team league. No Free Agency, No Draft rewarding the worst teams. Celtics just built an All Star Team and kept them.

The NBA of the 50s and 60s was nowhere close to what the NBA of the 80s and beyond

Today it is hard to keep a core of players together and you have to go through four rounds of playoff games

 

[Harry Dresden]

Have you ever seen NBA in the 50s and 60s?
Not much talent

Celtics had six HOF players that they kept for a decade
They had to only be better than seven teams

Not close to today’s sports

thats right.....the celtics would not have been that great playing in the league in say the 80's....russell would have had play against a lot of big guys his size.....

 

[rightwinger]

thats right.....the celtics would not have been that great playing in the league in say the 80's....russell would have had play against a lot of big guys his size.....

The Bill Russell NBA was a league of the two handed set shot and underhand free throws.

The league today is above the rim and centered around shooting threes

 

[DGS49]

No reputable, knowledgeable basketball person would rate Russell as the greatest PLAYER of all time. That is preposterous. He was voted the greatest TEAM player of all time, which is something that is extremely debatable because it cannot be measured.

The greatest team player may never have even played for a championship team. He may have simply raised the level of every team the played for from the worst to middle of the standings. The point is that the selectee is alleged to be the most valuable team player ever. Think about Steve Nash. Think about LeBron. Their teams were much better with them on them than they were without.

And in that conversation, Russell certainly has a lot going for him.

But once the first statistic hits the table, there is simply no question of the GOAT. Chamberlain makes everyone else look like a minor-leaguer. Think about it: he VOLUNTARILY stopped scoring 40 points a game in order to keep the two other stars on the Lakers happy. Who does that? Nobody.

Can't say anything bad about Russell. He was the nucleus of the most dominant team in NBA history. But no sane person would nominate him for GOAT.

 

[Harry Dresden]

The Bill Russell NBA was a league of the two handed set shot and underhand free throws.

The league today is above the rim and centered around shooting threes

from what i remember the only other big guy was chamberlain....i could be wrong though....

 

[rightwinger]

from what i remember the only other big guy was chamberlain....i could be wrong though....

Back then there were other “Big Guys”
But they were not athletic

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

thats right.....the celtics would not have been that great playing in the league in say the 80's....russell would have had play against a lot of big guys his size.....

He did. The average height of centers in the 60's was 6'10", just as it is today.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

No reputable, knowledgeable basketball person would rate Russell as the greatest PLAYER of all time. That is preposterous. He was voted the greatest TEAM player of all time, which is something that is extremely debatable because it cannot be measured.

It's entertaining to see such insecurity.. you CANNOT think a clear contender for the GOAT is the GOAT... you have to be IRREPUTABLE!.. UNKNOWLEDGEABLE!!!.. and this is my favorite.. PREPOSTUROUS!!!

LMAO

We're only talking about the GOAT of the NBA buddy.. no need to blow a gasket.

The greatest team player may never have even played for a championship team. He may have simply raised the level of every team the played for from the worst to middle of the standings. The point is that the selectee is alleged to be the most valuable team player ever. Think about Steve Nash. Think about LeBron. Their teams were much better with them on them than they were without.

With your description I agree. I've always been a Steve Nash and Lebron admirer over a Kobe.

And in that conversation, Russell certainly has a lot going for him.

But once the first statistic hits the table, there is simply no question of the GOAT. Chamberlain makes everyone else look like a minor-leaguer. Think about it: he VOLUNTARILY stopped scoring 40 points a game in order to keep the two other stars on the Lakers happy. Who does that? Nobody.

Wilt is certainly in the discussion, and despite my declaration in the title of this thread, just know that at the end of day, I know it's not undisputed. Wilt was the biggest freak of nature the NBA has ever seen, and put up the most insane numbers ever.

However, the modern ESPN/Nike generation will say many dumb things:
1. "HE ONLY PLAYED AGAINST A BUNCH OF SMALL INFERIOR PEOPLE"... well, by height, it's observably not true, and I'd say out of the true GOAT candidates, the only guys that can be accused of using their athleticism to succed would be Wilt, Russell, and Jordan. Magic and Bird did so more based on skill than athleticism.
2. "HE ONLY WON 1 CHAMPIONSHIP, MICHAEL WON 6"... Well, Wilt had to play the Celtics with Bill Russell, who won 11. It'll never cease to amaze me to watch young goofs use the "MJ 6" argument to justify his GOAT title while the "Russell 11" argument suddenly holds no merit because... inconvenience. Truly weird people.
3: "HE PLAYED IN A MORE UP-TEMPO LEAGUE SO HE COULD PAD HIS STATS".. This one holds observable merit, as the 60's involved a game that had more shots, thus more opportunities for points and rebounds. When you equate modern playing paces with those of the 60's and 70's, you get some interesting dynamics.

However, if someone says Wilt is the GOAT, I won't call them "irreptuable", or claim they have no knowledge, like your ignorant, disrepectful ass.

 

[Harry Dresden]

He did. The average height of centers in the 60's was 6'10", just as it is today.

and how many of those centers were anywhere near Chamberlain and Russell?...centers 20 years later were much better than the ones back then....

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

Back then there were other “Big Guys”
But they were not athletic

and how many of those centers were anywhere near Chamberlain and Russell?...centers 20 years later were much better than the ones back then....

Can you blame people for being naturally more athletic than the competition? That's not the same as employing modern training techniques.

Back when Russell and Wilt played, nobody was in the gym doing plyometrics or drowning in squats. They were just natural freaks who went to basketball practice.

The guy who comes to mind who benefitted from modern training techniques the most was Michael Jordan. He was one of the first to take on the Bo Jackson cross-training mantra and make himself better as a physical athlete in multiple ways to make himself better as a basketball player. When you list off all of the other point guards in the NBA in the early 90's, Jordan was far more athletic.. and not all naturally, but because he had a head up on training.

You can't rip people out of their era and then inject them into another without giving them the benefit of the norms of the time. If the NBA players of the 1960's had been suddenly time-warped coaches who trained them in plyometrics and modern weight lifting and supplement treatments.. They'd be fully competent as much as if the athletes of today only attended basketball practice and once out went to the bar or just dilly-dallied.

You have to keep the eras consistent.

 

[candycorn]

Have you ever seen NBA in the 50s and 60s?
Not much talent

Celtics had six HOF players that they kept for a decade
They had to only be better than seven teams

Not close to today’s sports

George Mikan combined the dominance of Gary Kasparov with the basketball ability of Gary Kasparov.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

George Mikan combined the dominance of Gary Kasparov with the basketball ability of Gary Kasparov.

I don't know what that means. George Mikan was a pioneer of basketball, as he was the dominant figure once the NBA was created.

His Career Stats:

Year	Team	GP	MPG	FG%	FT%	RPG	APG	PPG
1948–49†	Minneapolis	60	–	.416	.772	–	3.6	28.3*
1949–50†	Minneapolis	68	–	.407	.779	–	2.9	27.4*
1950–51	Minneapolis	68	–	.428	.803	14.1	3.1	28.4*
1951–52†	Minneapolis	64	40.2	.385	.780	13.5*	3.0	23.8
1952–53†	Minneapolis	70	37.9	.399	.780	14.4*	2.9	20.6
1953–54†	Minneapolis	72	32.8	.380	.777	14.3	2.4	18.1
1955–56	Minneapolis	37	20.7	.395	.770	8.3	1.4	10.5
Career	439	34.4	.404	.782	13.4	2.8	23.1
All-Star	4	25.0	.350	.815	12.8	1.8	19.5

Playoffs[edit]​

Year	Team	GP	MPG	FG%	FT%	RPG	APG	PPG
1949†	Minneapolis	10	–	.454	.802	–	2.1	30.3
1950†	Minneapolis	12	–	.383	.788	–	3.0	31.3
1951	Minneapolis	7	–	.408	.800	10.6	1.3	24.0
1952†	Minneapolis	13	42.5	.379	.790	15.9	2.8	23.6
1953†	Minneapolis	12	38.6	.366	.732	15.4	1.9	19.8
1954†	Minneapolis	13	32.6	.458	.813	13.2	1.9	19.4
1956	Minneapolis	3	20.0	.371	.769	9.3	1.7	12.0
Career	70	36.6	.404	.786	13.9	2.2	24.0

 

[candycorn]

I don't know what that means. George Mikan was a pioneer of basketball, as he was the dominant figure once the NBA was created.

His Career Stats:

Year	Team	GP	MPG	FG%	FT%	RPG	APG	PPG
1948–49†	Minneapolis	60	–	.416	.772	–	3.6	28.3*
1949–50†	Minneapolis	68	–	.407	.779	–	2.9	27.4*
1950–51	Minneapolis	68	–	.428	.803	14.1	3.1	28.4*
1951–52†	Minneapolis	64	40.2	.385	.780	13.5*	3.0	23.8
1952–53†	Minneapolis	70	37.9	.399	.780	14.4*	2.9	20.6
1953–54†	Minneapolis	72	32.8	.380	.777	14.3	2.4	18.1
1955–56	Minneapolis	37	20.7	.395	.770	8.3	1.4	10.5
Career	439	34.4	.404	.782	13.4	2.8	23.1
All-Star	4	25.0	.350	.815	12.8	1.8	19.5

Playoffs[edit]​

Year	Team	GP	MPG	FG%	FT%	RPG	APG	PPG
1949†	Minneapolis	10	–	.454	.802	–	2.1	30.3
1950†	Minneapolis	12	–	.383	.788	–	3.0	31.3
1951	Minneapolis	7	–	.408	.800	10.6	1.3	24.0
1952†	Minneapolis	13	42.5	.379	.790	15.9	2.8	23.6
1953†	Minneapolis	12	38.6	.366	.732	15.4	1.9	19.8
1954†	Minneapolis	13	32.6	.458	.813	13.2	1.9	19.4
1956	Minneapolis	3	20.0	.371	.769	9.3	1.7	12.0
Career	70	36.6	.404	.786	13.9	2.2	24.0

And he moved like the continental drift.

 

[rightwinger]

I don't know what that means. George Mikan was a pioneer of basketball, as he was the dominant figure once the NBA was created.

His Career Stats:

Year	Team	GP	MPG	FG%	FT%	RPG	APG	PPG
1948–49†	Minneapolis	60	–	.416	.772	–	3.6	28.3*
1949–50†	Minneapolis	68	–	.407	.779	–	2.9	27.4*
1950–51	Minneapolis	68	–	.428	.803	14.1	3.1	28.4*
1951–52†	Minneapolis	64	40.2	.385	.780	13.5*	3.0	23.8
1952–53†	Minneapolis	70	37.9	.399	.780	14.4*	2.9	20.6
1953–54†	Minneapolis	72	32.8	.380	.777	14.3	2.4	18.1
1955–56	Minneapolis	37	20.7	.395	.770	8.3	1.4	10.5
Career	439	34.4	.404	.782	13.4	2.8	23.1
All-Star	4	25.0	.350	.815	12.8	1.8	19.5

Playoffs[edit]​

Year	Team	GP	MPG	FG%	FT%	RPG	APG	PPG
1949†	Minneapolis	10	–	.454	.802	–	2.1	30.3
1950†	Minneapolis	12	–	.383	.788	–	3.0	31.3
1951	Minneapolis	7	–	.408	.800	10.6	1.3	24.0
1952†	Minneapolis	13	42.5	.379	.790	15.9	2.8	23.6
1953†	Minneapolis	12	38.6	.366	.732	15.4	1.9	19.8
1954†	Minneapolis	13	32.6	.458	.813	13.2	1.9	19.4
1956	Minneapolis	3	20.0	.371	.769	9.3	1.7	12.0
Career	70	36.6	.404	.786	13.9	2.2	24.0

Mikan was the first “freak” of a big man who was somewhat athletic and towered over his competition
But compared to Wilt or Russell he was slow and stiff.

Overall, it was a different game

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

and how many of those centers were anywhere near Chamberlain and Russell?...centers 20 years later were much better than the ones back then....

Indeed, and centers 20 years later had more basketball upbringing, more training, etc.

So not sh*t the quality of play would increase in 20 years as a sport increases...

The question is, if you reverted the centers today, or yesterday... back to then, without AAU bball, without plyometric training, without protein, testosterone, supplements... Would they still hold up?

They wouldn't be nearly as good, that's for sure.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

And he moved like the continental drift.

Okay.. and?

Athletes then didn't have the same training and such as they do now. Don't be so dumb as to want to compare the two straight up...

 

[candycorn]

Okay.. and?

Athletes then didn't have the same training and such as they do now. Don't be so dumb as to want to compare the two straight up...

I compared them? Wow...

Why is it that you blob supporters are always trying to pick a fight and when there is no fight to be had... you have to try to make up something to get upset about?