Why aren't the anti-choice people against birth control pills.

[DiamondDave]

Wrong.

WRONG

What is the outside food or nourishment source that is being consumed??
....

Ummm, glucose. The information is right there in the link (that was even the first freaking line. )

Stored energy within the fertilized egg... to feed is to TAKE food to TAKE nourishment, which does not happen until the implantation within the womb... see the seed in the vacuum example

 

[DiamondDave]

If they did not adapt or react there would be no implantation. If they did not take up nutrients they would not undergo cell division.

Maybe a web link will help.

When does the fertilized egg implant? - Pregnancy Articles

Cell division is growth from stored energy.... that is not taking nutrients or feeding

There is no reaction until there is contact and implantation in the uterus, until the mother's host womb creates the connection to start feeding and nourishing.... if there were reaction and adaptation without implantation, it would continue to do so.. it does not

Cell division does not occur without nutrients. The zygote requires glucose to continue survival.

Stored energy is not feeding

 

[DiamondDave]

Another article for dave the second one is really good-it talks about how it grows(from taking nutrients from its environment):
Conception and Pregnancy: What Happens At Conception? | Ovulation Calculator

Following penetration of the sperm into the ovum, the egg is fertilized and becomes an embryo. However, cell division and implantation of the egg must take place for conception to be successful.

Implantation of the Egg and Implantation Bleeding
Once the embryo attains the blastocyst stage a few days after fertilization, it begins the process of implantation. Implantation is the process of the embryo attaching itself to the uterine wall or uterine lining.

How Long From Conception Is Implantation?

Once the egg is fertilized, it will travel to the uterus for implantation. As it travels, it will continue to grow in size, its cells dividing and reproducing. The process of traveling and implanting will take somewhere around 7 to 10 days altogether.

Hard headed people today

The blastocyst does not feed or take nourishment from outside or from outside events until implantation

 

[Si modo]

WRONG

What is the outside food or nourishment source that is being consumed??
....

Ummm, glucose. The information is right there in the link (that was even the first freaking line. )

Stored energy within the fertilized egg... to feed is to TAKE food to TAKE nourishment, which does not happen until the implantation within the womb... see the seed in the vacuum example

The zygote requires glucose. Unless you wish to reference a source supporting your claim that a zygote survives on some sort of stored nutrients in a zygote before implantation. I would like to see that (not snarky, just keeping an open mind).

 

[DiamondDave]

I can scrape off a cheek cell.. and it will continue to use the stored energy until it is exhausted.. but it is not feeding from any outside source... again... use of stored energy is not feeding

 

[Si modo]

Another article for dave the second one is really good-it talks about how it grows(from taking nutrients from its environment):
Conception and Pregnancy: What Happens At Conception? | Ovulation Calculator

Following penetration of the sperm into the ovum, the egg is fertilized and becomes an embryo. However, cell division and implantation of the egg must take place for conception to be successful.

Implantation of the Egg and Implantation Bleeding
Once the embryo attains the blastocyst stage a few days after fertilization, it begins the process of implantation. Implantation is the process of the embryo attaching itself to the uterine wall or uterine lining.

How Long From Conception Is Implantation?

Once the egg is fertilized, it will travel to the uterus for implantation. As it travels, it will continue to grow in size, its cells dividing and reproducing. The process of traveling and implanting will take somewhere around 7 to 10 days altogether.

Hard headed people today

The blastocyst does not feed or take nourishment from outside or from outside events until implantation

Dave, I urge you to read the simple description of cellular respiration that I provided.

 

[Si modo]

I can scrape off a cheek cell.. and it will continue to use the stored energy until it is exhausted.. but it is not feeding from any outside source... again... use of stored energy is not feeding

Uh huh. Is it dividing, too?

 

[Screaming Eagle]

It doesn't even matter. Cell division means it is alive. Only living organisms undergo cell division.

 

[Reidlr]

An abortion is the removal of a fetus from the womb. According to scientific analysis and opinions of experts in the healthcare industry, a fetus, for humans, is a developing offspring from 8 weeks of gestation up until birth. Therefore, to group birth control pills into the same catagory as an abortion is just asinine. Contrary to your uneducated opinion; most birth control pills prevent embryogenises from occuring, not an abortion as you have claimed. There are, of course, birth control choices that do halt embryogenises after it has already begun (ie. morning after pill).

So you let scientists determine when a human life begins - and hence, morality - for you? Interesting. I would have thought that would come from the Bible.

At any rate - you think abortion is OK as long as long as its before 8 weeks?

I believe that the federal government should not be involved in the abortion debate

What about the Constitution, and especially the 14th amendment, leads you to believe the federal government should not be involved in the protection of rights?

Your statement about scientists is absurd. You are attempting to group birth control and abortion in the same catagory when in fact there is no viable comparison between the two. I simply presented you with facts that show birth control and abortion are not the same and can not be grouped together. As is typical for a liberal, if someone doesn't agree with you, you tell them they are wrong and present no rebuttal or facts that would allow your argument to be proven. Shortly, I'm sure, you will resort to name calling and slander.

You must be kidding me! Let me guess you brought this argument up because you searched wikipedia? The 14th Amendment has nothing to do with a women's right to choose. The 14th Amendment was created to define "citizen" in the US because of the 13th Amendment. With the ratification of the 13th Amendment slaves in the southern states were freed, but were not considered citizens. The freed slaves were considered people with no rights. The 14th Amendment stipulated that persons born or naturalized in the US are to be considered a citizen as long as the abide by the laws of this country and the state in which they reside. It also stated that a person has the right to due process. After the first paragraph, it laid out the voting rights of those members of the southern states that participated in the Civil War; as well as, who from the southern states could hold a public office and how. Lastly, it wrote off the civil war debt. Other than that, the 14th Amendment really has no bearing on anything.

Roe v Wade and the 14th Amendment: The 14th Amendment only was brought up because the Texas law was ruled to vague and thus violated her right to due process.

Please don't utilize the Constitution for your arguments if you don't know what your talking about!

 

[Screaming Eagle]

Here's a quote from a scientific paper on this exact subject. Notice how it says METABOLISM, and talks about nutrient uptake.

Pontificia Academia Pro Vita - THE DEVELOPMENT OF PRE-IMPLANTATION EMBRYO

From the illustration of the different stages of pre-implantation embryo development, it can be clearly seen that relevant morphological changes occur. These changes are associated to metabolic variations in terms of aminoacid uptake, protein synthesis and energetic requirement.

 

[DiamondDave]

Ummm, glucose. The information is right there in the link (that was even the first freaking line. )

Stored energy within the fertilized egg... to feed is to TAKE food to TAKE nourishment, which does not happen until the implantation within the womb... see the seed in the vacuum example

The zygote requires glucose. Unless you wish to reference a source supporting your claim that a zygote survives on some sort of stored nutrients in a zygote before implantation. I would like to see that (not snarky, just keeping an open mind).

Yet you have showed no support of your claim of absorption of nutrients from the outside.... that is until implantation or embedding into the uterine wall

The blastocyst is not converting light energy, is not attached to any nutritional source...
FERTILIZATION / CONCEPTION

At the moment of fertilization, a new and unique human being comes into existence with its own distinct genetic code. Twenty-three chromosomes from the mother and twenty-three chromosomes from the father combine to result in a brand-new and totally unique genetic combination. Whereas the heart, lungs, and hair of a woman all share the same genetic code, her unborn child, from the moment of fertilization, has a separate genetic code that is all its own. There is enough information in this tiny zygote to control human growth and development for the rest of its life. Until implanting into the lining of the uterus, each cell lives off of stored energy and newly manufactured DNA; at this stage in development the zygote is receiving no direct sustenance from the parents.

In the luteal phase the chemicals secreted by the mother cause the walls of the womb to swell in preparation for a potential implantation.. but the chemicals/hormones released do not feed the egg

Thru all the links I can find quick.. the references to feeding starting is only mentioned with uterine implantation.. there is no reference to fertilized eggs that are not implanted feeding....

The italicized portion above is from an anti-abortion site (which my mom sent) and I am trying to link to the source reference material

I am trying to read thru a specific pdf on the subject, but again, feeding takes place at implantation and there is no reference to feeding without implantation

http://www.sinauer.com/pdf/BioethicsCh01.pdf

 

[Si modo]

Stored energy within the fertilized egg... to feed is to TAKE food to TAKE nourishment, which does not happen until the implantation within the womb... see the seed in the vacuum example

The zygote requires glucose. Unless you wish to reference a source supporting your claim that a zygote survives on some sort of stored nutrients in a zygote before implantation. I would like to see that (not snarky, just keeping an open mind).

Yet you have showed no support of your claim of absorption of nutrients from the outside.... that is until implantation or embedding into the uterine wall
...

Yes, I did. Mylink to celluar respiration. Don't lie.

The blastocyst is not converting light energy,
...

An implanted fertilized egg does not, either. Nor does a fetus. Your point?

 

[DiamondDave]

Here's a quote from a scientific paper on this exact subject. Notice how it says METABOLISM, and talks about nutrient uptake.

Pontificia Academia Pro Vita - THE DEVELOPMENT OF PRE-IMPLANTATION EMBRYO

From the illustration of the different stages of pre-implantation embryo development, it can be clearly seen that relevant morphological changes occur. These changes are associated to metabolic variations in terms of aminoacid uptake, protein synthesis and energetic requirement.

And what you quoted is after uterine implantation

During the pre-implantation period embryo is transported through the oviduct into the uterus. On the 7th day after fertilization the blastocyst implants into the uterine mucosa.

From the illustration of the different stages of pre-implantation embryo development, it can be clearly seen that relevant morphological changes occur. These changes are associated to metabolic variations in terms of aminoacid uptake, protein synthesis and energetic requirement.

 

[DiamondDave]

The zygote requires glucose. Unless you wish to reference a source supporting your claim that a zygote survives on some sort of stored nutrients in a zygote before implantation. I would like to see that (not snarky, just keeping an open mind).

Yet you have showed no support of your claim of absorption of nutrients from the outside.... that is until implantation or embedding into the uterine wall
...

Yes, I did. Mylink to celluar respiration. Don't lie.

The blastocyst is not converting light energy,
...

An implanted fertilized egg does not, either. Nor does a fetus. Your point?[/QUOTE]


No that is the ability to have cells conduct respiration... that is not feeding off of an outside energy source..... because something WILL eventually do that does not mean that it IS doing that at the stage in question... see the seed in a vacuum scenario, again

 

[Si modo]

But, the zygote is not alive, according to you, thus it is OK to terminate its presense in the woman's body?

 

[DiamondDave]

It doesn't even matter. Cell division means it is alive. Only living organisms undergo cell division.

No... all criteria must be met... while only 'living' cells can divide, the division of cells is not the only criteria for life

 

[Si modo]

Yet you have showed no support of your claim of absorption of nutrients from the outside.... that is until implantation or embedding into the uterine wall
...

Yes, I did. Mylink to celluar respiration. Don't lie.

The blastocyst is not converting light energy,
...

An implanted fertilized egg does not, either. Nor does a fetus. Your point?

No that is the ability to have cells conduct respiration... that is not feeding off of an outside energy source..... because something WILL eventually do that does not mean that it IS doing that at the stage in question... see the seed in a vacuum scenario, again

OMG. Cellular respiration IS the uptake of nutrients and other compounds for energy.

Cellular respiration, also known as 'oxidative metabolism', is one of the key ways a cell gains useful energy. It is the set of the metabolic reactions and processes that take place in organisms' cells to convert biochemical energy from nutrients into adenosine triphosphate (ATP), and then release waste products. The reactions involved in respiration are catabolic reactions that involve the oxidation of one molecule and the reduction of another.

Nutrients commonly used by animal and plant cells in respiration include glucose, amino acids and fatty acids, and a common oxidizing agent (electron acceptor) is molecular oxygen (O2). Bacteria and archaea can also be lithotrophs and these organisms may respire using a broad range of inorganic molecules as electron donors and acceptors, such as sulfur, metal ions, methane or hydrogen. Organisms that use oxygen as a final electron acceptor in respiration are described as aerobic, while those that do not are referred to as anaerobic[1].

The energy released in respiration is used to synthesize ATP to store this energy. The energy stored in ATP can then be used to drive processes requiring energy, including biosynthesis, locomotion or transportation of molecules across cell membranes.
....​

That's wiki, so maybe it is more clear.

 

[DiamondDave]

But, the zygote is not alive, according to you, thus it is OK to terminate its presense in the woman's body?

The zygote has not met all criteria for life, per what we have as the 6 main criteria for life, until after implantation...

Now those that wish to protect further because they know that it has the potential, I have no problem with.... I do not go with potential, else we have egg or sperm being potentially life in the right circumstances.... it's a slippery slope that can go back to absurd points

What I am saying is at the point of implantation, all 6 criteria for life are indeed met... and there is no doubt that it is human and not some other species... and yet we do have people who support the termination of that life without direct threat of a life and death situation for the mother

 

[DiamondDave]

Yes, I did. Mylink to celluar respiration. Don't lie.

An implanted fertilized egg does not, either. Nor does a fetus. Your point?

No that is the ability to have cells conduct respiration... that is not feeding off of an outside energy source..... because something WILL eventually do that does not mean that it IS doing that at the stage in question... see the seed in a vacuum scenario, again

OMG. Cellular respiration IS the uptake of nutrients and other compounds for energy.

Cellular respiration, also known as 'oxidative metabolism', is one of the key ways a cell gains useful energy. It is the set of the metabolic reactions and processes that take place in organisms' cells to convert biochemical energy from nutrients into adenosine triphosphate (ATP), and then release waste products. The reactions involved in respiration are catabolic reactions that involve the oxidation of one molecule and the reduction of another.

Nutrients commonly used by animal and plant cells in respiration include glucose, amino acids and fatty acids, and a common oxidizing agent (electron acceptor) is molecular oxygen (O2). Bacteria and archaea can also be lithotrophs and these organisms may respire using a broad range of inorganic molecules as electron donors and acceptors, such as sulfur, metal ions, methane or hydrogen. Organisms that use oxygen as a final electron acceptor in respiration are described as aerobic, while those that do not are referred to as anaerobic[1].

The energy released in respiration is used to synthesize ATP to store this energy. The energy stored in ATP can then be used to drive processes requiring energy, including biosynthesis, locomotion or transportation of molecules across cell membranes.
....​

That's wiki, so maybe it is more clear.

OMG.. and there is no reference to a blastocyst doing this without implantation to the nutrient source, which is the uterine wall

 

[Si modo]

But, the zygote is not alive, according to you, thus it is OK to terminate its presense in the woman's body?

The zygote has not met all criteria for life, per what we have as the 6 main criteria for life, until after implantation...

Now those that wish to protect further because they know that it has the potential, I have no problem with.... I do not go with potential, else we have egg or sperm being potentially life in the right circumstances.... it's a slippery slope that can go back to absurd points

What I am saying is at the point of implantation, all 6 criteria for life are indeed met... and there is no doubt that it is human and not some other species... and yet we do have people who support the termination of that life without direct threat of a life and death situation for the mother

Actually, the zygote DOES have the criteria you listed. All of these have been supported as well.

Now, where did you come up with your criteria you listed? Are they of your choice?