Zone1 Why are you an atheist?

[Meriweather]

I am an atheist because I have no idea what a god would actually be, nor how we could determine if any actually exist.

What would convince me?
A definition of what a gid is
An explanation of how that definition was derived.
A method to test whether any proposed entity meets the definition.

Define what a father is. Define a creator. Define a loving person. Define a lawgiver/lawmaker.

Next define what a child is in relationship to the father. Define what the creation is in relationship to its creator. Define how a person who receive love responds. Define a person who takes a law(s) to heart and lives it.

A little bit of thought here, and presto--no reason to continue on with uncomprehending.

 

[pinqy]

Define what a father is. Define a creator. Define a loving person. Define a lawgiver/lawmaker.

Next define what a child is in relationship to the father. Define what the creation is in relationship to its creator. Define how a person who receive love responds. Define a person who takes a law(s) to heart and lives it.

I can define all those things, and demonstrate their objective existence, with the exception of "loving person" and "takes a law to heart," as those are subjective. But even for those two, I can show a person exists who has, or is claimed to have, those qualities for any specified idea of loving or taking to heart.

A little bit of thought here, and presto--no reason to continue on with uncomprehending.

now, I told you what it would take for me to believe a god or gods exist, but you did not even try to satisfy my requirements. Why is that?

 

[BreezeWood]

The universe began ~14 billion years ago. So clearly there was nothing before it.

bb is cyclical for our universe -

the cosmos / universe is what has always been and will always be.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

No one bothers about what an atheist thinks about theism.

It's a non-issue for theists.

 

[ding]

I am an atheist because I have no idea what a god would actually be, nor how we could determine if any actually exist.

What would convince me?
A definition of what a gid is
An explanation of how that definition was derived.
A method to test whether any proposed entity meets the definition.

Yes, that’s exactly where you should start; by positing a reasonable definition of God. Not an arbitrary and capricious definition but a definition arrived at through reason and experience.

Rather than walking you through the reasons and evidence, let me start with my understanding of God. God isn’t a thing. God is more like an action. Not a noun, a verb. Consciousness without form. Mind. God is existence. God provides reality to all places at all times. God is truth. God is logic. God is love. These are a few of the extant attributes of reality and God is EVERY extant attribute of reality. I am not saying God has those attributes. I am saying God is those attributes.

How do you propose we test this?

 

[ding]

bb is cyclical for our universe -

the cosmos / universe is what has always been and will always be.

No. It’s not. It had a beginning.

 

[ding]

No one bothers about what an atheist thinks about theism.

It's a non-issue for theists.

I would say that differently. I would say the beliefs of others does not impact me. I think that’s what you are saying when you say it’s a non issue. The same would apply to people of other faiths. The problem is that it seems that everyone wants to have a dick measuring contest.

 

[BreezeWood]

I would say that differently.

you two never heard of - conversion ... what certain theist relish more than anything else.

 

[ding]

you two never heard of - conversion ... what certain theist relish more than anything else.

Not my cup of tea.

 

[frigidweirdo]

- the only truism for the universe is it can never have been nothing.

Why can it never have been nothing?

What understanding do you have that the best scientists in the world don't have?

 

[pinqy]

Yes, that’s exactly where you should start; by positing a reasonable definition of God. Not an arbitrary and capricious definition but a definition arrived at through reason and experience.

I would think the definition of something that has an independent existence comes from describing the combination of properties and attributes that are unique to that thing.

Rather than walking you through the reasons and evidence, let me start with my understanding of God. God isn’t a thing. God is more like an action. Not a noun, a verb. Consciousness without form. Mind. God is existence. God provides reality to all places at all times. God is truth. God is logic. God is love. These are a few of the extant attributes of reality and God is EVERY extant attribute of reality. I am not saying God has those attributes. I am saying God is those attributes.

And how did you arrive at that definition? How can consciousness exist without a form? And truth logic, and love are abstract concepts and do not have independent existence.

If your intention is to say that God does not have independent existence but is rather a concept to make sense of the universe, fine. Personally, I have no need for such a concept, but I can understand the appeal.

How do you propose we test this?

I don't.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The universe began ~14 billion years ago. So clearly there was nothing before it.

Absolutely not true.

Perhaps the Big Bang was just a point where everything, all energy, because everything is energy, met at one single point, then exploded and will go around for billions of years until it hits that point again and all evidence of what came before it has been wiped out.

 

[ding]

Absolutely not true.

Perhaps the Big Bang was just a point where everything, all energy, because everything is energy, met at one single point, then exploded and will go around for billions of years until it hits that point again and all evidence of what came before it has been wiped out.

The evidence says otherwise. The CMB is the evidence of a paired particle production cascading event. The science says the universe popped into existence and then began to expand and cool.

 

[ding]

I would think the definition of something that has an independent existence comes from describing the combination of properties and attributes that are unique to that thing.

And how did you arrive at that definition? How can consciousness exist without a form? And truth logic, and love are abstract concepts and do not have independent existence.

If your intention is to say that God does not have independent existence but is rather a concept to make sense of the universe, fine. Personally, I have no need for such a concept, but I can understand the appeal.

I don't

It has nothing to do with need and everything to do with exploring the origin questions. As for my intention, mind has always existed as the matrix or source of the physical world. It is the constant presence of mind that has created the material world such that beings that know and create would eventually arise. The material world is made up of mind stuff. Everything is information. We exist in the mind of God.

You have to start with what can exist outside of space and time and what can be eternal. Any ideas?

 

[Leo123]

Which Gawd do you want me to be convinced "there is" ???
Or which God am I supposed to believe in ?

There have been quite a few available over the past several thousand years.

Which humanist credo am I supposed to believe in?

 

[ding]

I would think the definition of something that has an independent existence comes from describing the combination of properties and attributes that are unique to that thing.

Feel free to provide your definition or perception of God. I don’t know how anyone could discover anything they were searching for without having an idea of what they were looking for, right?

 

[Leo123]

Why can it never have been nothing?

What understanding do you have that the best scientists in the world don't have?

The elephant in the room is the definition of nothing.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I am an agnostic.

I can only know what I know.

 

[ding]

Absolutely not true.

Perhaps the Big Bang was just a point where everything, all energy, because everything is energy, met at one single point, then exploded and will go around for billions of years until it hits that point again and all evidence of what came before it has been wiped out.

Where do you suppose the massive amount of cosmic microwave background radiation came from?

The Early Universe

• In the early universe, matter and anti-matter were being created equally out of the radiation
  • pair production
    • pair production is the production of matter and anti-matter in pairs
    • two photons can produce a pair
    • particle-antiparticle annihilation (the reverse process) is also possible

 

[BreezeWood]

Why can it never have been nothing?

What understanding do you have that the best scientists in the world don't have?

which scientist is that who claims the universe was one time nothing ...