Why are Tea Partiers opposed to having a safety net?

[Dr.Drock]

What a perfect example of conservative black and white thinking.

I admire people who will do what it takes to survive. My whole point is that this race to the bottom will not end well.

And I'm telling you more gov't only hurts.

Do some research on the children of welfare and food stamp recipients and find out what % of them end up on the same gov't programs.

Maybe if we didn't make the average joe pay for all these worthless gov't programs, they could afford to live easier.

Mitt Romney stated a factoid WRT taxes. He claims that the bottom 50% of the people don't pay any. If that's true, a tax break for the average Joe isn't going to free up much discretionary income.

I'm an average joe, I'd love to see huge slashes in gov't programs and a correspondnig income tax cut, that sure as hell would help me a ton. I got a lot of college loans and other bills to pay, I'd much rather it go towards that than some awful inefficient gov't program that doesn't help people.

 

[Avatar4321]

I don't mock low paying jobs. I mock the people who have them.

But seriously, I just can't understand how the most replaceable people can champion the corporate and financial elite when it's clear that they care nothing about them.

I stand up for the rights of everyone. why do they need to care for me? When injustice is happening, im going to fight that injustice. Robbing people through government is wrong. Period.

Do you live in Utah? If so, how many kids do you have? How much in taxes do you pay?

No. I wish. 1. too much. Not that it really matters.

 

[Oddball]

All that shit work has a cost. They could be learning a trade or spending time with their families. But keep those short term goggles on.

Or they could be working those jobs to pay to out-of-pocket to learn that trade.

Or they could be working those jobs to pay their taxes, while the other spouse works to keep the family eating and living indoors.

Or they could be working those jobs to just have something to do, rather than sitting around and collecting handouts.

Unlike lolberal snobs like you, I don't disparage people who work rather than mooching.

It's about the finite amount of time that people have for various endeavors. People make mistakes. They might not see the benefit of studying hard when they're young and have the time to do so. Then as they find that their skills don't amount to didley squat and would like to pursue some worthwhile training, they're trapped by circumstance. You think that's good?

"Trapped by circumstance" is bullshit.....It's about your life and you get to do with it what you want.

 

[Darkwind]

There is no race to the bottom, except for the artificially created race brought about by the government sucking the energy from the economy. People always have, and always will, do what is required of them to survive until things turn around. To suggest that people taking employment that is below their skill set, or to help to make ends meet as a race to the bottom is really a short sighted outlook on the economy. Perhaps it is an acknowledgment that the policies and interference of government into the private sector has not, and will not, provide our economy an opportunity to recover.

If that is the case, then the people who are working at the Wal*marts and Coscos and other lower wage jobs are actually ahead of the game and are now filling top notch jobs in the paradigm shift to this kind of wage level.

On the other hand, I prefer to think that sooner or later, the economy will overcome the impetus to remain mediocre in the face of of such economic need and will, despite the government, find ways to improve. If we can get a seismic shift in policy with regard to business in this country, and an actual reduction in energy sapping regulations, I think that we, as a nation, can come roaring back. That will return the minimum wage jobs to those who are just entering the market, and allow for those who wish to improve their position in life, the ability to move up the ladder.

But note this. A man who is 40 years old working for a minimum wage job before the economic downturn will continue to work for minimum wage jobs, because the problem is not with the economy or the job sector, but with him.

Ok, so what regulations do you see as energy sapping? I'm not saying that there aren't any but which ones are the worst?

Many interstate commerce actions restrict business and their ability to expand.

In the energy sector alone, the costs to upgrade are more expensive than to remain at the current levels, (which by the way, contribute to more pollution), so the demand continues to go up while supply remains stifled. Energy prices are one of, if not the greatest, drag on this economy.

A huge regulation (hopefully, one that will be shot down in the next couple of days) is the uncertainty of new healthcare regulations. Right now, businesses cannot even begin to calculate the burden and costs to their business, let alone plan a strategy to go forward with this weight around their necks.

Each and every time that government requires a business to do something, anything, it is a cost to them. Some are bearable, some aren't but are borne anyway, some are just plain breakers.

There is not enough time or space on this forum to debate and talk about the 17 feet of shelf space that is the United States Federal Code (USC) and the congress adds 32,000 laws to it every single year.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

All that shit work has a cost. They could be learning a trade or spending time with their families. But keep those short term goggles on.

Or they could be working those jobs to pay to out-of-pocket to learn that trade.

Or they could be working those jobs to pay their taxes, while the other spouse works to keep the family eating and living indoors.

Or they could be working those jobs to just have something to do, rather than sitting around and collecting handouts.

Unlike lolberal snobs like you, I don't disparage people who work rather than mooching.

It's about the finite amount of time that people have for various endeavors. People make mistakes. They might not see the benefit of studying hard when they're young and have the time to do so. Then as they find that their skills don't amount to didley squat and would like to pursue some worthwhile training, they're trapped by circumstance. You think that's good?

It just is... one thing it's not is my problem.

 

[JoeNormal]

Classic misunderstanding of the relationship between business and government. To say corporations have no power or less power than the individual denies the fact that corporations are a group of drumroll....people.

Why don't you tell me about the time the government came after you, guns loaded and hauled you away.

I take it that you're a small business owner? Here's an example of how a corporation will eventually harm you. One of my in-laws owned a video rental business at a time when that industry was exploding and he was lucky enough to be located in an area that was growing like crazy. Things were good for a while during the golden years when he was beneath the radar of Blockbuster and Hollywood Video. Then the big guys came in. Now, he does whatever odd jobs a man in his 70's can do and ekes out a living that's about 10% of what it was back in the day.

What was preventing your in-law from becoming onf of the bigger corporations providing video services to the community? Why exactly are blockbuster or hollywood videos bad for providing a better service to the community than your in-law did?

Im sure you are familiar with the current dvd business structure. Netflixs and RedBox nearly put Blockbuster out of business (Blockbuster has since changed their model to reflect the changing market). why? Because Netflix & RedBox provided a better services to customers. Of course, Netflix has fumbled on that and is losing business now. But business is dynamic. It's all about who can provide the best and cheapest goods or services to others.

In his case, I think he started believing that he had the Midas touch. His intial success was relatively easy, he figured the gravy train would keep rolling for him in one way or another. When he saw that the video business was starting to go to the big guys, he bought a hair cutting franchise which he was clearly not cut out for.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

In other words, why do you think you'll never need to be supported through rough times?

They think they are special, that's why. The whims of fate just don't apply to them.

 

[JoeNormal]

Or they could be working those jobs to pay to out-of-pocket to learn that trade.

Or they could be working those jobs to pay their taxes, while the other spouse works to keep the family eating and living indoors.

Or they could be working those jobs to just have something to do, rather than sitting around and collecting handouts.

Unlike lolberal snobs like you, I don't disparage people who work rather than mooching.

It's about the finite amount of time that people have for various endeavors. People make mistakes. They might not see the benefit of studying hard when they're young and have the time to do so. Then as they find that their skills don't amount to didley squat and would like to pursue some worthwhile training, they're trapped by circumstance. You think that's good?

It just is... one thing it's not is my problem.

So much for the the notion that 'people will voluntarily help others'.

 

[Foxfyre]

Classic misunderstanding of the relationship between business and government. To say corporations have no power or less power than the individual denies the fact that corporations are a group of drumroll....people.

Why don't you tell me about the time the government came after you, guns loaded and hauled you away.

I take it that you're a small business owner? Here's an example of how a corporation will eventually harm you. One of my in-laws owned a video rental business at a time when that industry was exploding and he was lucky enough to be located in an area that was growing like crazy. Things were good for a while during the golden years when he was beneath the radar of Blockbuster and Hollywood Video. Then the big guys came in. Now, he does whatever odd jobs a man in his 70's can do and ekes out a living that's about 10% of what it was back in the day.

What was preventing your in-law from becoming onf of the bigger corporations providing video services to the community? Why exactly are blockbuster or hollywood videos bad for providing a better service to the community than your in-law did?

Im sure you are familiar with the current dvd business structure. Netflixs and RedBox nearly put Blockbuster out of business (Blockbuster has since changed their model to reflect the changing market). why? Because Netflix & RedBox provided a better services to customers. Of course, Netflix has fumbled on that and is losing business now. But business is dynamic. It's all about who can provide the best and cheapest goods or services to others.

Exactly right. The American train industry almost killed itself--in fact has never fully recovered--when it saw itself as being in the train business rather than being in the transportation business. Its unions almost did it in by focusing on how trains would be run and ignored how products and people could be most efficiently and effectively transported to where they needed to go.

Many businesses like Blockbuster vanished and Blockbuster almost did itself in by seeing the purpose as being in the video rental business instead of being in the business of providing user friend entertainment to the people.

We have watched the ox cart industry change to the steam engine to the internal combustion engine to jet and nuclear power. We have watched communications begin with scratching symbols into rocks and smoke signals progress to radio, telegraph, and television. We have seen a crude alphabet etched onto animal skins and then parchment, develop into crude hand type setting to the first working typewriter to the IBM Selectric to word processing and finally blazing fast computers processing more information in a few seconds than the entire population was once capable of doing in years.

No matter how much we wish it could sometimes, the world and the people in it do not stand still. Those who read the trends and have the freedom to follow them, adapt to them, and innovate in ways to accommodate themwill prosper. Those who do not get left behind.

A job is not just doing something for pay. A job is selling our labor for the benefit of somebody else in return for an agreed wage. If the work we do does not benefit somebody else much or at all, does not create a profit for him/her, we won't make much if anything.

 

[OldUSAFSniper]

First, as a "Tea Partier" I can tell you that I have NEVER met anyone at a rally or meeting that has said that we should get rid of the "safety net." Not one. And let's remember that I live in the REDDEST state in the union. I have heard conversations on how to make it leaner and more effective (specifically social security and medicare). I have heard conversations on how to make the money go farther (by using block grants directly to the states in the case of Medicaid). But again, I have to tell you that I have never heard anyone say that the "safety net" should be abolished. That my friend, is a lump of left-wing propoganda.

I will tell you that as a member of the Tea Party, my group supports a smaller federal and state government (we're still wondering why the Department of Education exists). And we believe that if you want to sit around all day long and do nothing that you should absolutely have that right. But, we also believe that if you are capable of working and you need government assistance, then you should work for it.

The bottom line here is the fact that as taxpayers, we are tired. We are tired of a government that is bloated, ineffective, expensive, duplicates services, and tries to do everything which means it does nothing well. We are tired of GSA employees blowing our money like there isn't a tomorrow, of Fannie and Freddie managers getting bonuses after we had to bail them out, of Congressmen who are millionaires due to their insider trading, and of people who do not pay anthing in taxes but gets a $5,000 check at tax time. The well is dry and we are telling you NO MORE.

You see, for those who are rational and sane, government is NOT A FRIEND. Government is the antithesis to freedom. A person, and there are a few on this forum, who believes that government is a good thing has not experienced true freedom. You can still find it in this country... and once you do, you understand that a group of bloviating beaurocratic narssistic government employees are NOT the way to get things done.

Tea Partiers... the left's "boogie men"...

 

[Avatar4321]

Ever shop at Walmart? You know they treat their employees like shit, right? Do you buy things from China? You know there's a high probability that it was assembled by child/slave labor.

Ive seen no evidence that Walmart treats their employees poorly at all. You realize just because you dont like them, doesnt necessarily mean they do the things you accuse them of, right?

And things made in china do not necessarily = slave labor.

 

[Darkwind]

It's about the finite amount of time that people have for various endeavors. People make mistakes. They might not see the benefit of studying hard when they're young and have the time to do so. Then as they find that their skills don't amount to didley squat and would like to pursue some worthwhile training, they're trapped by circumstance. You think that's good?

It just is... one thing it's not is my problem.

So much for the 'people will voluntarily help others' notion.

You do realize that Americans are the most charitable, giving, people in the whole world, right?

 

[DiamondDave]

Yes, and I've had more than my fair share. Unfortunately, these entry level jobs are being filled with the elderly and parental aged people as second jobs. That's where our economy is right now.

Leave it to the socialist to look down their nose on people going out and earning their way in the world, rather than gleefully joining the moocher class.

Good job, Dudley.

All that shit work has a cost. They could be learning a trade or spending time with their families. But keep those short term goggles on.

And you in your infinite socialist wisdom gets to decide that for them, eh??

Moron

 

[JoeNormal]

Or they could be working those jobs to pay to out-of-pocket to learn that trade.

Or they could be working those jobs to pay their taxes, while the other spouse works to keep the family eating and living indoors.

Or they could be working those jobs to just have something to do, rather than sitting around and collecting handouts.

Unlike lolberal snobs like you, I don't disparage people who work rather than mooching.

It's about the finite amount of time that people have for various endeavors. People make mistakes. They might not see the benefit of studying hard when they're young and have the time to do so. Then as they find that their skills don't amount to didley squat and would like to pursue some worthwhile training, they're trapped by circumstance. You think that's good?

"Trapped by circumstance" is bullshit.....It's about your life and you get to do with it what you want.

I'll bet you don't have any kids.

 

[Darkwind]

First, as a "Tea Partier" I can tell you that I have NEVER met anyone at a rally or meeting that has said that we should get rid of the "safety net." Not one. And let's remember that I live in the REDDEST state in the union. I have heard conversations on how to make it leaner and more effective (specifically social security and medicare). I have heard conversations on how to make the money go farther (by using block grants directly to the states in the case of Medicaid). But again, I have to tell you that I have never heard anyone say that the "safety net" should be abolished. That my friend, is a lump of left-wing propoganda.

I will tell you that as a member of the Tea Party, my group supports a smaller federal and state government (we're still wondering why the Department of Education exists). And we believe that if you want to sit around all day long and do nothing that you should absolutely have that right. But, we also believe that if you are capable of working and you need government assistance, then you should work for it.

The bottom line here is the fact that as taxpayers, we are tired. We are tired of a government that is bloated, ineffective, expensive, duplicates services, and tries to do everything which means it does nothing well. We are tired of GSA employees blowing our money like there isn't a tomorrow, of Fannie and Freddie managers getting bonuses after we had to bail them out, of Congressmen who are millionaires due to their insider trading, and of people who do not pay anthing in taxes but gets a $5,000 check at tax time. The well is dry and we are telling you NO MORE.

You see, for those who are rational and sane, government is NOT A FRIEND. Government is the antithesis to freedom. A person, and there are a few on this forum, who believes that government is a good thing has not experienced true freedom. You can still find it in this country... and once you do, you understand that a group of bloviating beaurocratic narssistic government employees are NOT the way to get things done.

Tea Partiers... the left's "boogie men"...

Have to rep that.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Or they could be working those jobs to pay to out-of-pocket to learn that trade.

Or they could be working those jobs to pay their taxes, while the other spouse works to keep the family eating and living indoors.

Or they could be working those jobs to just have something to do, rather than sitting around and collecting handouts.

Unlike lolberal snobs like you, I don't disparage people who work rather than mooching.

It's about the finite amount of time that people have for various endeavors. People make mistakes. They might not see the benefit of studying hard when they're young and have the time to do so. Then as they find that their skills don't amount to didley squat and would like to pursue some worthwhile training, they're trapped by circumstance. You think that's good?

It just is... one thing it's not is my problem.

You don't participate in society? You're a hermit?

 

[Foxfyre]

Ever shop at Walmart? You know they treat their employees like shit, right? Do you buy things from China? You know there's a high probability that it was assembled by child/slave labor.

Ive seen no evidence that Walmart treats their employees poorly at all. You realize just because you dont like them, doesnt necessarily mean they do the things you accuse them of, right?

And things made in china do not necessarily = slave labor.

When my sis and brother-in-law retired after 25 years with the New Mexico public schools--he was a superintendent and she taught highschool chorus--they thought it would be a blast to spend a few hours a week being Wal-mart greeters to supplement their retirement income. Of course Wal-mart immediatelysaw they had excellent skill sets and put her to work in the music department and him in the sports department (he was a coach before he went into administration.) They both loved it and were amazed at the long range retirement programs made available to Wal-Mart employees who chose to participate in it.

They eventually quit and went on to do other things--he didn't feel like he could physically keep lifting the heavy equipment his job required and she hated it when they made her work as cashier--not her cup of tea--but they have spoken fondly of Wal-mart ever since.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

It's about the finite amount of time that people have for various endeavors. People make mistakes. They might not see the benefit of studying hard when they're young and have the time to do so. Then as they find that their skills don't amount to didley squat and would like to pursue some worthwhile training, they're trapped by circumstance. You think that's good?

It just is... one thing it's not is my problem.

So much for the the notion that 'people will voluntarily help others'.

I have no problem helping those who help themselves, I just don't waste my time on people who are into the whole "trapped by circumstances" thing.

 

[Stephanie]

In other words, why do you think you'll never need to be supported through rough times?

They think they are special, that's why. The whims of fate just don't apply to them.

If a person can plan ahead for "rough times" or the whims of fate and not have to ask you or the Taxpayers for help, then maybe they are special..something we don't see too much in this day and age.

good GRIEF

 

[DiamondDave]

In other words, why do you think you'll never need to be supported through rough times? Our economy is rapidly changing - moving towards a knowledge based system. Outsourcing to third world countries is killing our manufacturing base and thanks to trade agreements, no one profits from that except the multinational corporations. Illegal immigrants fill the niche for unskilled labor. Few people have enough land or have sufficient water rights to produce their own food. And most middle class Americans are drowning in a sea of mortgage and credit card debt.

Does the constitution afford you a safety net?

Yes, I interpret the "promote the general welfare" clause in that way.

Promote the general welfare is in the preamble, you idiot.... And not also that promote is well different in definition than provide

And where we do have the welfare clause, it is liberal socialist idiots like yourself who forget to use the whole thing, and not just a part of it...

The welfare that is to provided for is the welfare "Of the United States"... the states, that's right... as in the union... not each and every individual.... the general welfare clause is there to provide for the union, the country as a whole... not for every little whim you think you need or want...
to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States.. not your individual defense because the little girl scout down the street is going to knee you in the balls... not for your own personal welfare or personal responsibilities.... not to pay your own personal debts...

Idiotic to the core, this one is